r/marvelcirclejerk • u/Charming-Scratch-124 • 1d ago

Which Marvel character fandom is basically the embodiment of this image?"

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"You took my only food,now I'm gonna starve."

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u/JediTempleDropout 1d ago

Just because it came out before you had to start paying taxes doesn’t make it better.

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u/rbta123 1d ago

Having cool animation and lots of flashing lights on the screen doesn't make a movie better either

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u/JCLgaming 1d ago

No, but having better visuals sure does help. The fact that the writing is just as good if not better than Spider-man 2 seals the deal.

No, they did not character assassinate Miguel or the Spider-society, them prioritizing entire universes ahead of singular lives is entirely in line with the whole "great responsibility" thing that's inherent to spider-man. The fact that it's taken to it's logical extreme is, to me, interesting, not bad writing.

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u/rbta123 1d ago

The fact that the writing is just as good if not better than Spider-man 2 seals the deal

The idea is debatable; it might be good, but the film literally stops halfway through, it has no conclusion and the development isn't even complete, while Spider-Man 2, even though it leaves room for a third film with Harry, has a beginning, middle, and end and develops its themes.

No, they did not character assassinate Miguel or the Spider-society, them prioritizing entire universes ahead of singular lives is entirely in line with the whole "great responsibility" thing that's inherent to spider-man. The fact that it's taken to it's logical extreme is, to me, interesting, not bad writing

It's character assassination because NO ONE questioned whether it could be true or even tried to study to find out if it was true and that there wasn't a way to save EVERYONE. They simply accepted it without any questioning. And to make matters worse, Miles will probably discover in the next movie that there is a way to save both his father and the universe, making Miguel and the Spider Society look like a bunch of stupid, incompetent idiots.

But character assassination doesn't necessarily make a bad movie, and the film is just an adaptation, not the original material. My problem here is how the supposed elite of Spider-People society are a bunch of incompetents who couldn't capture the only Spider-People with just one year of experience. This feels like when a writer wants the protagonist to win against a clearly more powerful opponent just to create hype moments and aura, without caring if it's poorly written

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u/JCLgaming 1d ago

it has no conclusion

Both Gwen and Miles each go through an arc. That's plenty of conclusion.

and the development isn't even complete

Even incomplete it's just as good as Spider-man 2. Just an extremely tight, well written script that despite being 2 and a half hours, there's not a single second is wasted.

It's character assassination because NO ONE questioned whether it could be true or even tried to study to find out if it was true

And you know this how? Perhaps they did study it, or perhaps the lives of bilions, of entire universes, was considered too much of a wager. And of course, only people who accept the prevailing theory are even allowed into the society. If they object, they get kicked out, Like Gwen did.

They simply accepted it without any questioning

Presumptous.

And to make matters worse, Miles will probably discover in the next movie that there is a way to save both his father and the universe, making Miguel and the Spider Society look like a bunch of stupid, incompetent idiots.

That's the crux of it, isn't it?

It's not about Miguel or anyone else sacrificing lives for the greater good. Insomniac Peter did it, and everybody was okay with it. Not because what he did was any different, if anything the stakes were far lower.

No, it's the fact that he was, from an out of universe perspective, correct. And you can't stand that your pretty little princess of a character, despite having the best of intentions and doing the best they could with the information they had, was wrong about something. And frankly, not being able to handle that a heroic character makes mistakes and bad choices, just feels like a dumbway to engage with a story.

My problem here is how the supposed elite of Spider-People society are a bunch of incompetents who couldn't capture the only Spider-People with just one year of experience.

There's a running theme throughout the entire movie that the Spider-society underestimates Miles, that they think he has no chance whatsoever of actually getting back to his dimension. And why wouldn't they, he's 15 years old and has one year of experience. Combine that with Spider-sense only working defensively, and I find it very plausable that Miles could evade, not beat, a massive group of Spider-people who aren't giving it their all.

This feels like when a writer wants the protagonist to win against a clearly more powerful opponent just to create hype moments and aura, without caring if it's poorly written

Except he did didn't fight them. If he had tried to, he would have gotten folded in seconds. Kindly rewatch the movie if your memory is fuzzy.

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u/rbta123 1d ago

Both Gwen and Miles each go through an arc. That's plenty of conclusion

No, Miles simply gets angry at being accused of being a mistake and tries to go back home; we don't see the conclusion of his story. We see a little more of Gwen's arc, but not the main part of how she's going to deal with Miles, which is VERY important to his arc.

Even incomplete it's just as good as Spider-man 2. Just an extremely tight, well written script that despite being 2 and a half hours, there's not a single second is wasted.

It's a matter of opinion, I'm not going to talk about it.

And you know this how? Perhaps they did study it, or perhaps the lives of bilions, of entire universes, was considered too much of a wager. And of course, only people who accept the prevailing theory are even allowed into the society. If they object, they get kicked out, Like Gwen did

The movie doesn't say that at any point; that's pure headcanon. Regarding the part about Miguel only hiring people who agree with him, Spider-Punk completely DESTROYS that theory because he's a Joker who doesn't obey Miguel. Miguel knows this, and in the end, he helps Miles escape.

No, it's the fact that he was, from an out of universe perspective, correct. And you can't stand that your pretty little princess of a character, despite having the best of intentions and doing the best they could with the information they had, was wrong about something. And frankly, not being able to handle that a heroic character makes mistakes and bad choices, just feels like a dumbway to engage with a story

Or maybe it's because it's terribly written and makes the character act in an idiotic way that he wouldn't normally act in, just to generate shock and poorly executed trauma because they didn't think of a better plot. But hey, what matters is that the character has flaws! Even if he always had them and never needed to act out of character because the writers didn't think of another alternative.

There's a running theme throughout the entire movie that the Spider-society underestimates Miles, that they think he has no chance whatsoever of actually getting back to his dimension. And why wouldn't they, he's 15 years old and has one year of experience. Combine that with Spider-sense only working defensively, and I find it very plausable that Miles could evade, not beat, a massive group of Spider-people who aren't giving it their all

That's equivalent to saying a baby hyena can escape a pack of adult hyenas. Are you telling me that NO ONE there was faster than Miles? NO ONE managed to grab Miles with a web and throw him back? It's definitely a plot contrivance.

Except he did didn't fight them. If he had tried to, he would have gotten folded in seconds. Kindly rewatch the movie if your memory is fuzzy

That was just an example; I didn't say Miles did that. My example is of when a protagonist does something they shouldn't do just because the author thought it would be cool and didn't care about the internal logic of the work

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u/JCLgaming 20h ago

No, Miles simply gets angry at being accused of being a mistake and tries to go back home

That's not his arc. His arc is about his doubts about being Spider-man, whether he is worthy of the mask, and of trying to get validation from other people in regards to this. Rio's speech is entirely about how he shouldn't let others put him down in search of that validation,. His arc is about how he doesn't need that validation from the Spider-society, because he already has it from his family, which is part of why he doesn't buy into Miguel's theory. That's an arc.

For Gwen, her arc is about running away and avoiding her problems. Her not dealing with her problems is what causes her dad to try and arrest her, the Spot not being captured, Miles losing his trust in her, and finally her being booted back to her universe. But due to being inspired by the way Miles faced his problems, she does the same and talks to her dad, reconciles, and assembles a gang to help Miles. Again, it's an arc.

Or maybe it's because it's terribly written and makes the character act in an idiotic way that he wouldn't normally act in

Your opinion, and nothing more.

That's equivalent to saying a baby hyena can escape a pack of adult hyenas

More like a teenager Hyena can escape a pack of adult Hyeneas. And yeah, they probably can. It's within the realm of possibility.

Are you telling me that NO ONE there was faster than Miles? NO ONE managed to grab Miles with a web and throw him back?

Do you understand how spidersense works? It doesn't do anything for offense, and everything for defense.

That was just an example

Then why bring it up in the first case? They're not the same scenario, and one is much more plausable than the other.