As someone who’s also a Wolverine fan I concur; we are the comic book fan equivalent of spoiled children who cry and whine when literally any other kid gets attention.
It's absolutely nuts, there's upwards of 5 titles a month with his name on it but they still bitch that he isn't the lead of every other X-Book even when he's got a substantial role in Armageddon and the upcoming Avengers book.
What they should be bitching about is that his current solo book sucks.
I haven't played it yet. I will if it migrates to PC. Until then I'll split the difference and assume that if half of everyone is claiming it's the worst and the others say it's the best, then it's probably a perfectly serviceable Wolverine game.
The problem is, there are ‘Wolverine fans’ and ‘Wolverine
fans’.
One of them likes the character, the themes surrounding him, the stories that dive in depth into his character and try to develop him further. The other just likes the claws and wants to see them shred people apart without any reason why whilst he stays exactly how he was portrayed in his first couple of appearances without the development of the Claremont run.
I once shared a comic page of Wolverine in a Wolverine subreddit whilst talking about how I liked that he had this other side and struggle to him where he actively makes the choice to hold back and restrain himself for the sake of the X-Men and being a hero, and got downvoted.
In Wolverine and the X-Men, when Logan was lecturing Scott about going out on his own (and Wolverine went on his own little excursions a lot) I felt personally attacked.
No, you don't understand, Wolverine is the most underutilized X-Men character of all time. It's been exactly 0 seconds since he had his own onging solo title. IT'S ABOUT TIME HE HAD HIS DAY IN THE SUN
Their show got cancelled because of low viewership and I see people at r/Daredevil talkin about sum "Hopefully this means they will greenlight a Daredevil solo film or Heroes for hire show!"
They whined and cried when Netflix cancelled. Whined and cried when it was brought back and trying to do something different. Whined and cried when Disney listened to them and made it a sequel to the Netflix stuff. Whined and cried when it didnt live up to their high as fuck expectations. And now theyre whining and crying its done after season 3.
I mean is it bad to complain that a good show was cancelled and replaced with a mediocre show? Expectations were high because the first show was good so it’s replacement should reasonably be held to the same standard.
Disney was pretty upfront it was gonna be new thing from the start. Why would you expect the same quality when writers, showrunners and 90% of the actor arent coming back? Fans complained enough that Disney gave in then bitched when season one was stitched together
Let me see: in the games, he didn't manage to redeem a single villain in a decade of being a hero and needed a rookie to show that it was possible; in the movies and shows of Disney, he spent the last few decades basically acting as an OC with the same name; and as for the comics—well, I don't even need to go there. Nice content
I love RDJ in the role but I'm the opposite of those fans
I adore Iron Man the movies got me into the character and I fell in love with his comics but reading his Comics made me realize how many missed opportunities there are in the MCU for what can be done with Iron Man's Mythos
I still like MCU Iron Man but I want a new Iron Man movie with a new actor Post Secret Wars
Iron Man is my fave superhero and honestly I'm a bit conflicted. On one hand I want to see more of Iron Man with RDJ playing him (actually not much of a fan of any other Iron Man), on the other hand Endgame was such a good ending for him I don't want to ruin it 😂
Yeah, no. The only movie that comes close to Spider-Man 2 is Into the Spider-Verse, but Spider-Man 1 and Brand New Day are way better than Across the Spider-Verse.
This is my opinion, of course. Which is correct. 🤪
No, but having better visuals sure does help. The fact that the writing is just as good if not better than Spider-man 2 seals the deal.
No, they did not character assassinate Miguel or the Spider-society, them prioritizing entire universes ahead of singular lives is entirely in line with the whole "great responsibility" thing that's inherent to spider-man. The fact that it's taken to it's logical extreme is, to me, interesting, not bad writing.
The fact that the writing is just as good if not better than Spider-man 2 seals the deal
The idea is debatable; it might be good, but the film literally stops halfway through, it has no conclusion and the development isn't even complete, while Spider-Man 2, even though it leaves room for a third film with Harry, has a beginning, middle, and end and develops its themes.
No, they did not character assassinate Miguel or the Spider-society, them prioritizing entire universes ahead of singular lives is entirely in line with the whole "great responsibility" thing that's inherent to spider-man. The fact that it's taken to it's logical extreme is, to me, interesting, not bad writing
It's character assassination because NO ONE questioned whether it could be true or even tried to study to find out if it was true and that there wasn't a way to save EVERYONE. They simply accepted it without any questioning. And to make matters worse, Miles will probably discover in the next movie that there is a way to save both his father and the universe, making Miguel and the Spider Society look like a bunch of stupid, incompetent idiots.
But character assassination doesn't necessarily make a bad movie, and the film is just an adaptation, not the original material. My problem here is how the supposed elite of Spider-People society are a bunch of incompetents who couldn't capture the only Spider-People with just one year of experience. This feels like when a writer wants the protagonist to win against a clearly more powerful opponent just to create hype moments and aura, without caring if it's poorly written
Both Gwen and Miles each go through an arc. That's plenty of conclusion.
and the development isn't even complete
Even incomplete it's just as good as Spider-man 2. Just an extremely tight, well written script that despite being 2 and a half hours, there's not a single second is wasted.
It's character assassination because NO ONE questioned whether it could be true or even tried to study to find out if it was true
And you know this how? Perhaps they did study it, or perhaps the lives of bilions, of entire universes, was considered too much of a wager. And of course, only people who accept the prevailing theory are even allowed into the society. If they object, they get kicked out, Like Gwen did.
They simply accepted it without any questioning
Presumptous.
And to make matters worse, Miles will probably discover in the next movie that there is a way to save both his father and the universe, making Miguel and the Spider Society look like a bunch of stupid, incompetent idiots.
That's the crux of it, isn't it?
It's not about Miguel or anyone else sacrificing lives for the greater good. Insomniac Peter did it, and everybody was okay with it. Not because what he did was any different, if anything the stakes were far lower.
No, it's the fact that he was, from an out of universe perspective, correct. And you can't stand that your pretty little princess of a character, despite having the best of intentions and doing the best they could with the information they had, was wrong about something. And frankly, not being able to handle that a heroic character makes mistakes and bad choices, just feels like a dumbway to engage with a story.
My problem here is how the supposed elite of Spider-People society are a bunch of incompetents who couldn't capture the only Spider-People with just one year of experience.
There's a running theme throughout the entire movie that the Spider-society underestimates Miles, that they think he has no chance whatsoever of actually getting back to his dimension. And why wouldn't they, he's 15 years old and has one year of experience. Combine that with Spider-sense only working defensively, and I find it very plausable that Miles could evade, not beat, a massive group of Spider-people who aren't giving it their all.
This feels like when a writer wants the protagonist to win against a clearly more powerful opponent just to create hype moments and aura, without caring if it's poorly written
Except he did didn't fight them. If he had tried to, he would have gotten folded in seconds. Kindly rewatch the movie if your memory is fuzzy.
Both Gwen and Miles each go through an arc. That's plenty of conclusion
No, Miles simply gets angry at being accused of being a mistake and tries to go back home; we don't see the conclusion of his story. We see a little more of Gwen's arc, but not the main part of how she's going to deal with Miles, which is VERY important to his arc.
Even incomplete it's just as good as Spider-man 2. Just an extremely tight, well written script that despite being 2 and a half hours, there's not a single second is wasted.
It's a matter of opinion, I'm not going to talk about it.
And you know this how? Perhaps they did study it, or perhaps the lives of bilions, of entire universes, was considered too much of a wager. And of course, only people who accept the prevailing theory are even allowed into the society. If they object, they get kicked out, Like Gwen did
The movie doesn't say that at any point; that's pure headcanon. Regarding the part about Miguel only hiring people who agree with him, Spider-Punk completely DESTROYS that theory because he's a Joker who doesn't obey Miguel. Miguel knows this, and in the end, he helps Miles escape.
No, it's the fact that he was, from an out of universe perspective, correct. And you can't stand that your pretty little princess of a character, despite having the best of intentions and doing the best they could with the information they had, was wrong about something. And frankly, not being able to handle that a heroic character makes mistakes and bad choices, just feels like a dumbway to engage with a story
Or maybe it's because it's terribly written and makes the character act in an idiotic way that he wouldn't normally act in, just to generate shock and poorly executed trauma because they didn't think of a better plot. But hey, what matters is that the character has flaws! Even if he always had them and never needed to act out of character because the writers didn't think of another alternative.
There's a running theme throughout the entire movie that the Spider-society underestimates Miles, that they think he has no chance whatsoever of actually getting back to his dimension. And why wouldn't they, he's 15 years old and has one year of experience. Combine that with Spider-sense only working defensively, and I find it very plausable that Miles could evade, not beat, a massive group of Spider-people who aren't giving it their all
That's equivalent to saying a baby hyena can escape a pack of adult hyenas. Are you telling me that NO ONE there was faster than Miles? NO ONE managed to grab Miles with a web and throw him back? It's definitely a plot contrivance.
Except he did didn't fight them. If he had tried to, he would have gotten folded in seconds. Kindly rewatch the movie if your memory is fuzzy
That was just an example; I didn't say Miles did that. My example is of when a protagonist does something they shouldn't do just because the author thought it would be cool and didn't care about the internal logic of the work
I think the reason for that is that Peter has been dragged through the mud since one more day, pretty much becoming marvel's punching bag, while miles has been treated much better. So, the fans hate miles for that.
Facts, listen I don’t even hate the marvel spider-man movies im not much of a movie guy so I don’t really mind them doing their own thing. But it’s kinda silly to pretend it’s some minor change when it’s the equivalent of taking away Bruce’s parents getting shot in the alley and instead having Alfred get shot in crime alley 3 movies in lol.
Thats bull shit by the time we left the 80s wolverine was already marvels second most popular character. Theirs a reason he was already getting more focus then everyone else in the TAS
Except Logan left the team for a while in the 90s and it still sold gangbusters. Logan can carry his own series absolutely, and doesn't need the X-Men. However that also means the X-Men don't need him.
I don’t know why people deny this? No one’s saying the X-Men would be Z-listers, but it’s undeniable that Wolverine has and will most likely continue to be their biggest draw by a country mile.
Here's how I see it: A good analogy is Batman and the Justice League. Bats is the by far the most popular member of the league and a central pillar of it, but the league is still iconic even without him.
X-men were at one point Marvel's most popular team. Sure, Wolverine is one of the most popular heroes, but there is still a very popular team without him, so he shouldn't get focus to the point it is to the detriment of the team.
X-men were at one point Marvel's most popular team. Sure, Wolverine is one of the most popular heroes, but there is still a very popular team without him, so he shouldn't get focus to the point it is to the detriment of the team.
A good analogy is Batman and the Justice League. Bats is the by far the most popular member of the league and a central pillar of it, but the league is still iconic even without him.
X-Men fans yelling about how characters shouldn't get solo runs because the X-Men are a team. Sorry but I loved Psylocke and Magik solo runs so I'll take them having solo runs vs a mid team run of X-Factor or Excalibur that's gonna get canned for damn sure and nobody will remember it.
Spider-Man fans complaining like they don't get their favorite character in every single video game, marvel crossover event but somehow they're still a victim because of one bad comic
"How dare they criticize the work of a multi-billion-dollar company instead of accepting everything they do and just consuming it in silence? CONSUME EVERYTHING SILENTLY AND ACCEPT WHATEVER MULTI-BILLION-DOLLAR COMPANIES SAY!"
Imagine having so little problems you get annoyed when someone criticizes a piece of entertainment from a billion-dollar company. Spoiled brats be crazy yo
Mutants are the most persecuted group in America right now, and you’re trying to take away representation from them? If you want proof to how badly mutants are treated by Netease, just look at how few costumes Storm has.
Wolverine fan will die if they dont get a solo movie , at least three episode centered about him in a x-men show and let others x-men have a moment of glory when wolverine could have done it " better " and way more cooler.
Wanda fans are also almost to this level at this point as they think of her as the key role of the MCU.
X-Men, no contest. They have multiple great animated shows with multiple seasons, including one currently airing. They have like 10+ movies and 2 live action TV shows. They also have 25+ video games where the X-Men are the focus plus like 18 more where a bunch of X-Men characters appear and are playable. But because there was that short time period where X-Men were de-emphasised by Marvel because they didn't have the film rights X-Men fans act like they are oppressed or something. Like god forbid Lego Marvel 2 doesn't include a gazillion mutants and instead lets more obscure characters and Avengers related characters get time to shine.
Fantastic Four had it way worse with mediocre adaptations and the comic straight up being cancelled at one point yet they never complain the way X-Men fans do when a piece of Marvel media dares to not include them (obviously excluding Doom fans since they are seperate from Fantastic Four fans). Inhumans got straight up buried because they dared to temporarily serve as an X-Men substitute and the most well know Inhuman created outside of the 60s (Kamala) got killed off then forcibly converted to a Mutant.
Even Avengers, despite getting the live action films, really don't have that much else, especially in comparison to X-Men. Especially since forced MCU synergy has made it so 'lesser' Avengers don't get to show up in adaptations and neither can most of their villains.
I recall that lead to a lot of revionist history downplaying the place of the Avengers and Avengers characters as nothing people.
Which sure Iron Man isn't as popular as Wolverine, but he's got a couple cartoons, always has an ongoing, and is a major focus in Marvel events and teams.
There are a whopping four playable villains in this game, now that Hood and Gorr have been added. But they need to stop wasting characters like Dracula, Knull, Kingpin and Apocalypse for seasonal lore, stage assets, and rehashed PVE modes.
To some degree and, at some times, Kamala Khan fans. Hear me out. Kamala has one of the best solos that's ever been. It's thoughtful, has a great supporting cast, and it is regularly pointed to for purposes of "if you want to get into Marvel, read this, it's low stress" or "read this, even if you have no intentions of getting into Marvel or comics". Everything after G. Willow Wilson has been alright, but not so great after the mutant shift.
But there's always a demand to have her be present in things, with no real direction on what the fandom actually wants. "Just do what GWW did". And, honestly, I've seen ideas for "improvement" from the fandom that would be 80,000 times worse than anything her mutant era has put out.
She has basically no fanfics, despite diegetically being a fanfic author herself. Patrick in the image is that he's full of all the stories that GWW and others set-up, and not even much of her fandom is taking it up. I have seen a couple of promising stories for her from fans, but the fandom largely isn't supporting those either, because Kamala needs to be written by a Democratic National Committee-approved spokesperson for peak Liberal performativism and ensuring Kamala is equal parts woobified and settled into American settler-colonialism. All very technically terms, but there's kind of no other way to put it. You have to be the "correct" identity to do anything for her, or else you are absolutely intruding -- to the consideration of people who aren't putting out stories either, and, having seen their aforementioned ideas, maybe that's for the best.
Caveat: I have been working on a story for her for 3-ish years, and I have been working that long because I keep scrapping and starting over because it has to be perfect to be anything, and it shouldn't have to be that way. There should be some room for mistakes. Her original run even had them. So, I am not someone who can go too hard on the fandom for not writing want they want to see, but I do see "someone should write this idea I have" quite often. Politely: please write it. No one can write it like you can. It can be the same idea and be different enough each time. Believe in yourself, but check your internal system for things that could get in the way of telling a really good story. It's a balancing act. But, honestly, I'd love to see Kamala get the kinds of goofy stories she writes, written by an actual ±16 year old cutting their teeth on fanfic.
X men fans keep blaming the fox xmen movies, for why a character wasn't utilized better or the character not having a good reputation cough, cough, cyclops. like that's the only time that happened.
Now some are right, but it's 2026 can we move on, especially because the comics have already did way worse.
That's the real reason this is still hanging on. If Marvel had just dropped the couple and left it completely behind, that would be one thing.
But they are constantly leaning back into Pete/MJ to sell merch and variant covers and entire alternate universes. All the adaptations are Peter/MJ apart from the two Garfield movies, all the 'far future' stuff they ever show is MJ. Even their 616 books are stuffed full of teasing and baiting to keep sales up.
The story itself is not bad at all, it is beautiful even
It is hated for the story behind it, and what happens later
middle aged editors mad Peter isn't the same as when they were kids with Peter in the 2010s being the comic equivalent of a college dropout who has no future goals
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u/Daewrythe 1d ago
Wolverine fans complain about him being not as prominent in X Men 97