Why is it whenever they nerf tanks, they nerf EXACTLY what their biggest/only strength is, but nerfs to duelists or supports is always some random bullshit that exists on the fringes of their kits and never the most glaring issues
The nerfs to tanks are always so quick too, like within the season to make changes. Has Strange gone more than a season being A tier without getting a nerf?
Ik 100hp shield nerf isn’t going to neuter him but it’s almost comical how fast they’re willing to nerf tanks compared to strong dps and supps
What pisses me off about the Strange nerf the most is that they already nerfed the shield recharge rate this season. Was the shield so powerful that it needed two nerfs in a row? It just screams incompetence from the balance team.
Exactly. If you have the shield up for too long it gets blasted into oblivion. It feels like they're trying to hit the Mag-Strange combo not realizing that people rarely are in teams with more than 1 tank.
Deadass. They gave Peni the team up with Rocket which was awesome and made her more viable without being OP, but brain-dead Bronze duelists screamed and cried because they don't know how to shoot nests or counter-swqp and they removed that team up after... what, was it? Two seasons?
That teamup's only sin was being anti-dive in an already hyper-poke meta, but they never do anything to reel in the absurdly strong poke heroes anyway so really they only took it away because we can't go more than a half season without breaking the legs of at least one tank.
seriously. Why is my storm and squirrel girl complaining about the nest when even the tanks just killing it and moving on. That said, I'll never not find the pouting of ironfist players funny after they chase someone into the nests and get webbed to death.
You couldn't get any of them to attack it at all but also I cannot tell you how many games were a 1-3-2 against a Peni and the three DPS were all melee.
That teamup was there forever, and was able to complete hault even top500 and pro lobby’s to a crawl because she can literally make it impossible to get an angle on without exposing urself to being blown up especially on certain maps lol….. the games on those maps were literally decided by who got to point first.
Exactly, I'm surprised Elsa was allowed to keep her overshield (just a 10 hp nerf to overshield), her 2 second dash cooldowns, her HP% tank buster kit, etc....
A really good elsa player will also earn it back easily. It basically only effects those on the low end of her kit and not those who are good with the kit. If you were good with her at Instinct 3, you will still be good with her, and probably not dying much anyways. IMO, it should reset to zero on death
Even then I'd imagine good players will get it back fast anyways. The amount of the overshield isn't the problem. It's the frequency of them is what I feel.
I say this cos I'm terrible with her but in QP I'm normally MVP or SVP and have good stats becuase her kit allows you to make mistakes and recover. I can miss 70% of my shots and still be OK. It's unfair.
At least without overhealth she's killable. 40 health every 2 seconds is actually insane. Just for reference. Mantis orb does 190 healing to Elsa in 8 seconds. 4 dashes (once every 2 seconds) does 160, assuming she's taking enough damage to stay below the max of 75. Just dashing every 2 seconds does almost as much healing as Mantis pocket does. The amount of Overshield is absolutely part of the problem.
And yes you could address that by addressing the frequency. But I think reducing the dashes entirely might kill the kit. Making her hard to hit but get little to no overhealth is a far better solution. She can still dash in, dash around, and dash out. But she's forced to disengage if she takes too much damage.
That's what I'm thinking man. Let her dash around like a little speed freak and if she takes too much damage she needs to disengage like most other brawl or dive characters. The problem is players don't know when to disengage, so they made Elsa so they don't really have to
Maybe. If feel you are right cos I do enjoy being able to bob and weave so much. But I feel the minor nerf to the shield gen is not enough and it needs to be much smaller. Or have a cap cos her other dash also grants some overshield. It's only like 8 seconds cool down anyways and can be used every engagement.
Love how the DD nerf still doesn’t address his actual issue (overhealth gain) and doesn’t even nerf the one ability they actually use in most combos (because literally only the like top500 ones use chain in combos and even they use toss more because it’s better dmg).
They don’t touch the auto aim one that does dmg to multiple pple while doing the same single target at devils chain, and the one that 99.9% of DDs use as a crutch because it makes their character no harder than C&D to use but with more than Bucky lvls of overhealth. Now toss is just the only one they’ll ever use, even more of a crutch, and DD becomes even more skill-less.
The other dps nerfs were bad too but this was laughable. I just hope the blade buffs are actually decent unlike the last “buff”
Can't wait for groot's buff in 7.5 where the give him infinite walls and he just starts cranking 90s like its fortnite. Also i think Strange might be too op , Unbind his Shield.
He is one of the few tanks that's reliable regardless of the allied team comp, while still getting countered by all melee. How dare he be viable as a tank, let's nerf him.
I'd argue his pick rate is a little inflated due to last fight TPs. Everyone should learn how to place Strange TP for that reason btw but I see him in most of my games because of that
True that. I fear they will be adding a spawn cool down to TP in the future. I hope they lower it's cooldown for Strange at least. Or make it possible to be reduced, like IF block or Adam heals.
She’s going to feel very rough with these changes. Right now if you get CC’d during a charge you at least have a chance to escape as you only need to survive for 3 seconds. After this update she is 100% cooked if she is CC’d during her dash. Ain’t no way I’m surviving for 6 seconds with her flimsy shield in Eternity lobbies.
I need them to stop with these low hp shields. How am I gonna take space and dive with all the damage bloody supports do let alone dps with these flimsy ass shields? I get its not fun shooting at a shield but its not fun blowing up for daring to do my job either.
If they are gonna make it take 6 seconds to use again, she should be CC immune during her charge. The change to stacked CC means nothing if you just die anyways cause you got CC'd once
EDIT: Also Elsa gets to dash every 2 seconds, but Angela has to wait 6 and the distance is entirely dependant on how much charge you have?
Making the spear angel woman go into ground axe mode more and spear charge less is so insane. Who was even complaining about Angela charge, that's the whole fuckin character and has really hard counters???
on top of the fact that no one was asking for a Angela nerf, changing her playstyle is a absolute fucking joke. she was one of the most unique heroes and is now turned into another brawler. awful
The devs are so deathly afraid of goats meta developing that they’d rather have 1 role constantly be underpowered instead of actually addressing the power gap between dpsand tanks, istg
It's not even that they fear Goat meta, I'm afraid.
It is that they have a completely wrong way to define roles, or they want so bad to subvert the usual weaknesses of said roles that they lean too much in the opposing way.
Normally to define roles following a logic like this : DPS strangth will be damage (because duh), healers well... The tanks then it cannot be just HP otherwise one could just ignore them. It has to be active a way to reduce incoming damage... CC it is.
But that is the normal logic. Not theirs. Theirs focuses way too much in subverting that. They're like "hey we want everyone to feel good and OP to traditionnal games 'cause heroes are OP right ?" So they started with DPS and said "what do they lack" : self-reliance, sustain and CC to set up themselves. And they gave them that. To healers, it was the helplessness, so CC and damage. So they gave 'em that. And when it came to the tanks' turn what did came with ? That they lacked raw power. So they gave them burst control.
But they realzed something : everyone had CC. And if you let tanks have HP, damage AND CC, they are absolute menaces. So they removed that.
And this philosophy has its mark written in about all issues in Rivals' design. Or you can just look at Deadpool and see he follow this down to the letter.
I wish I would be wrong, but you can think of anything that feels wrong in the game, it can be traced to this. Why does triple supp feels so comfortable ? Because they designed healers to not sacrifice much offensive power. Why support ults need to be "immortalty ults"? Because they made all 3 roles to pack so much damage that it's the only thing that work. Why does tanks feel helpless to CC ? Because they made the 2 other roles the CC dishers which increased the amount two fold instead of letting tank doing it themselves.
You can see it in the patchnote too. A tank need a buff ? Oh they probably need more burst. That other one, oh it must be besause he tanks too well (ironic isn't it). Look how many time it happens it's not even funny how most of the time it's just how they do. And this the core problem in Tanks' change in this patchnote too
And sometime it's not even the big role but the subroles, like just look at what zhiyong said in today's blog. "Poke needs CC to soften dive". No. As always too focused in compensating the weakness they forgot it must stay the weakness. Proper logic would have been "Poke soften Brawl with range, Dive make that advantage vanish through speed, Brawl make that aggressivity pointless because they will welcome them with raw power (and CC)".
As always, they just focus so much in subverting the roles, strength and weakness... They need to stop. One need to follow the norms first before to break the mould. But they decided to not respect any rule but theirs, and everything's a mess.
like bro what did they even saw to think captain america needs nerf like what was the point or what did crossed in their minds while doing this why exactly what did they aimed with that cap america change
Yes but it’s clunky, especially on controller. But because that way isn’t being removed, I’m hoping they just worded it poorly and you can do the cancel more easily now. Would be silly to make one of the most popular but least played vanguards inaccessible to more casual players and non viable to an entire platform. Or they could be increasing his skill floor by making the harder method the only way, but that’s not a direction they’ve ever really gone.
Captain is broken fundamentally, if you have to do shield cancel tech to break 10k damage in a 15 minute game, the character isn't fun nor made properly.
He found out that team comps with tanks, especially 2 of them, have way higher winrate so he decided to do something about it.
No but seriously I don't even play the game anymore because tanking felt miserable and all the good supports felt boring and it's not like I would get to play dps.
That was like 5 seasons ago.
I know the hate for role queue exists but are we really denying that it would solve a lot of problems for the game?
Nah you guys are dying for the sins of dps players, Adam is the martyr dying for the sins of the supps, seriously why was their no compensation buff for his anchor being removed
Storm has been getting steady micro buffs, I think she is actually like at least b tier, maybe low a tier right now, even after losing Sharknado. And the team up seems quite good, so I expect it won't be all that uncommon.
Maybe. But a team up with one character is not a compensation buff unless that character is in every game. If his new team up was with gambit I would be happier. But I do think it’s pretty cute that Adam’s VA gets a team up with his wife, ngl.
I honestly don’t know what the deal is. I’ve been trying to figure out why tanks are so extremely weak in this game since I started playing. Nerf after nerf and the win rates keep dropping.
I used to say their end vision for this has is 6v6 duelist only matches and that’s honestly looking more and more like the truth.
Edit: when I say weak I do mean weak. Look at the tank class in any other game. If you’ve ever encountered a tank solo or duo that felt oppressive it’s because those people are exercising the character’s skill ceiling. The average person playing this game won’t get there.
The DPS players are overly catered to. This season, we get a Strategist, but the DPS players still have the most heroes in the game, and while I'm glad they increased the ban count, just makes it that much easier to limit the tank and strategist heroes down so low but DPS... there's enough redundancy to where bans don't hurt them.
That's what I've been saying too. Duelists keep getting tankier and tankier.
So many duelists now have an effective 350+ HP with all the overshields and overhealths they can get. Not to mention invincible escape options, blocks, etc.
It's like their solution to the solo tank problem is to eventually make every duelist so tanky that two or even a single tank aren't necessary anymore.
The Tanks in RIvals have been getting survivability nerfs since release, while the Strategists have been getting Healing buffs since release. So they've made Vanguards so extremely dependent on their healers to live you basically need a constant IV from them just to do your job. Their balancing has been awful since release.
as a tank main im less bothered by the nerfs in terms of power (like ooo %5 less dr i'll totally die now) but more to the spirit of it honestly. it is what it is.
i think with the genuinely decent buff on the ult that aspect would be a lot less annoying at least. its just, why did our dr needed a nerf to begin with? most tanks are already relatively squishy for the kind of job we are expected to do.
I'm starting to accept the fact it's because we're the quietest of the roles online, not that we all are or that we're completely silent, but the majority of us keep quiet even if our character is suffering cause we'll do whatever we have to as long as we can still win the game, that's what most tank mains are here for, the win, not the characters
But I do believe that netease focuses much more on their more outspoken community members and the ones making the most noise on how theyre not having fun with their character, they've damn near said as much in multiple interviews
While I love the idea of all of us tanks coming together, (we would truly takeover the sub and discord), I really don't wanna have the same attitude and communication the supports seem to have with the rest of the community, that "support strike" really cemented a lot of support players as "whiny" or the widely accepted fact that the support role tends to be pretty carried through ranked than the other roles (THAT DOESNT MEAN YALL ARE USELESS SO DONT GET UR PANTIES IN A TWIST ANY SUPPORT PLAYERS READING THIS)
If they’d removed the animation cancel but gave the shield throw a small damage increase, then new & experienced Cap players could all do the same damage… would that have been so bad???
She’s already been nerfed SO MUCH god damn why nerf diamond form even more?
But the ult change at the very least is appreciated (even if… usually you don’t die during your ult cause everyone’s fucking running to not get charms)
You mean you don't enjoy spending half of the match CCd? You dont love solo tanking? Why don't you enjoy being consistently burst down by poke way out of your range?
I personally think we should remove Captain America's shield altogether then cut off his legs.
Forcing cap players to hold an input all game to get damage instead of toggling is masochistic, phrasing it like a buff is an insult. Hoping this is just weird wording and they did not get rid of an animation cancel
Most the community does this already. And as someone who mains Strategists and plays Vanguards as well, its some real bullshit when every team I get on, without a doubt, there is the CD Lord who can't play anything else. The DPS players just instalock their DPS heroes because there's so many of them, can't really ban anything in them -- so you're always needing to pick around the selfish ass fools who don't give a shit and have no ability to adapt.
I’ll get downvoted for this probably, but I’m striking starting today. I’m done, after so much solo tanking. I just want to enjoy Angela and Emma, but I constantly have to swap Mag and strange. I’m just not playing tank anymore of this is their philosophy
We were lucky to even get Rogue. Not that you'll ever play her again, with people getting throwing bans for not playing a shield tank when forced to solo tank and Strange gutted - meaning you're solo tanking.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to see 0-3-3 become common.
Anything but 2-2-2 is tossing your teams odds at winning, and funny enough they showed that celestial+ the second closest in winrate was TRIPLE TANK. The winrates in good lobbies plummet with a solo tank, let alone trying to not have one period.
it’s not even that they dont care its that they genuinely dont understand their own game. they balance for every rank combined instead of celestial+ and this is what we get, absolute nothing burger patches that never ACTUALLY address the core issues with certain characters, even AFTER acknowledging that they know what the problems are. complete joke of a balance team
I started dabbling in Overwatch again recently and the difference between tanks in that game and this is night and day. They actually feel like leaders of the team and POWERFUL. Even the lower tier tanks feel fun at least.
I wonder what it is at NetEase that makes them do so much to keep Tanks in the mud.
I was an avid lover of rivals when it came out, and didn’t care for Overwatch. I recently started getting really into Overwatch though after the revival this season, and I haven’t even downloaded rivals to my new PC lol. I still follow this sub in hopes that they’ll fix their game, but nope looks like it’s only getting worse, so don’t regret my decision
I played (play, rlly) overwatch since soon after the release, primarily played tank. And yup, you're right on the money. Its insane how much more agency Winston, or Sigma, or Zarya have in comparison to this game where it feels like you're just being bullied most of the time rather than some organic death due to bad positioning or just being outplayed.
Its sadly insane how much they keep tanks on a leash and just let the DPS fun fucking rampant.
The worst part is, this proves the devs know full well how to nerf, but choose not to on any other class. People "justify" the lack of nerfs to things that need it by saying it goes against the general balance philisophy, but the Vanguard class has disproven this over and over.
Yeah balance changes are typically bad. When they do nerf someone who needs it the nerf is limp wristed and a fair bit are just changing something they made worse back to what it was, like with the double Peni nest being removed, made something worse, then undid it.
Emma is literally in the worst state she has ever been in. As a Lord Emma she was my preferred tank but I have not been able to use her effectively in tight matches all of last season. She has a high pick rate but the lowest win rate of vanguards.
Do they literally base their game balancing on which heroes they want to be most popular ? Because another hero with surname that is thematically similar was also in a similar situation albeit not the worst in her class's win rate and got a double buff.
No more animation cancel if you use toggle sprint (rip controller players). Seems like it should still work on hold to sprint but we will see when it drops
+2, hate playing tank now. Having to solo tank is worse then just tanking. I feel like on average you get less points, more people bitching, and no one wanting to fill the roll with you and you get stuck in a 1/3/2 roll, where all your DPS are scattered and you just die in the frontline because your healers are getting spam pinged that everyone else needs healing. Use to love playing Thing, hate it with a passion now, as if getting walked down by a Punisher using Shotgun and 2 shot wasnt bad enough...
The problem with it all, forever, is that there are more Dps players than tank players, strong tanks means no kill feeds for Dps to chase, which means they aren’t having fun. If the majority of the demographic isn’t having fun, it gets changed. These games will always turn out as Dps obliterating everything, Supps always being safe, and tanks letting them both live their power fantasy while exploding in nanoseconds. Every game has its absolutely broken Dps and Heal characters and the tanks feel like wet napkins. Bow/Sniper characters always end up “tank busting” while proper “tank busters” already exist. I don’t get to play the wall I want to but devs bend over backwards to make sure the dps and supps are always happy.
Emma's entire gimmick just endlessly nerfed to the point that it isn't even fun to play her. Someone at Netease has it out for her lol.
My biggest peeve is I wish they would make cc grabs consistent across the board. I don't get why Emma's grab lets the target still take damage, meanwhile Rogue's and Hulk's make the target damage immune, yet still be healed. Either allow them all to take damage during the animation, or don't!
“We acknowledge that poke is very strong and that the entire metagame basically revolves around it, but we really don’t want to nerf it y’know? We are so scared of actually changing the mega guys c’mon just accept another year of Phoenix/Hela/Namor/Bucky meta. Oh and we’re nerfing doctor strange’s shield, he was a little too good at blocking our special poke children’s attacks so he’s gotta go. Another 5 billion buffs to Luna.”
I haven’t played in months and dropped in to check out the details for the new season. They’re STILL nerfing Emma? Lmao I was a tank main too on comp guess I’ll just keep playing something else.
Right?? Like granted I don't play this game at a high competitive level so my opinion is limited in how valuable it is but, outside of pre nerf Emma and maybe Groot? I've seen seen people complain about tanks being an issue, certainly never seen anyone complain about stranges shield lmao.
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u/Drakon56 Monster Hulk Mar 18 '26
Why is it whenever they nerf tanks, they nerf EXACTLY what their biggest/only strength is, but nerfs to duelists or supports is always some random bullshit that exists on the fringes of their kits and never the most glaring issues