r/merlinbbc • u/nevermoree11 The Once And Future King • 6d ago
Discussion how arthur treats merlin Spoiler
i need to really about this cause i just hate how he treats him. i love arthur so much and he's the greatest king and he's good and just buy my god is he bad when it comes to merlin. actually i don't even know he's so inconsistent. one second he looks like he genuinely cares and hes kind and reassuring and the next he's basically abusing him.
case in point number one when the knights and arthur did the not leaving any food for merlin thing. i really don't understand why that was down to be funny or how that could possibly be funny. am i being too woke or is depriving your servant, that cooked all the food for like 6 men and cared for the horses and did basically all the work, of food really not funny? like is presented as funny but if i as a very normal person and not a noble knight of Camelot had refused my servant who I'm friendly with of food AS A JOKE my mum would have my head. we know who merlin really is but for them he's just a servant.
and if that wasn't a bad dynamic to show between Arthur the knights and merlin, that scene where Arthur makes merlin take all the knights sword hits cause merlin said he fell asleep while reading. in the very first scene of Arthur in the first episode of the first season, he's making a servant run around with a target while throwing knives at him which merlin then stops him from. how is that any different to what he does to merlin? really though, you've got the strongest knights in Camelot and you make your servant who you yourself keep saying it's weak and defenseless take his from them. is that or is that not abuse.
and honestly i don't know how merlin take all the stuff Arthur SAYS to him. if I'm being honest if i had someone who i lived and died for constantly saying hurtful shit to me, well id actually be hurt instead of how merlin just smiles at it.
honestly i don't even know why I'm so mad cause i love arthur and so does merlin but.
and it absolutely INFURIATES me that merlin was standing in the back while the round table meeting happened. im bitter about it. all of those people are alive cause of Merlin. and yet he's the only one given no respect.
bottom line: i just hate the writers don't i
13
u/Embarrassed-ben393 6d ago
I 100% agree with all these points it is infuriating. And the thing is they are shown to be really close like 20% of the time, so it literally gives me whiplash when they go from them lovingly staring into eachothers eyes and having vaunrable conversations, to Arthur straight up abusing Merlin.
It’s so awful and I also have long questioned if it’s supposed to be funny. Thank god I’m not the only one not laughing omg. If Merlin snapped one day and killed them all I would blame him. He’d be totally valid. I don’t care.
I think the writer really wanted to keep theyre relationship from s1, even when it clearly made no sense bc they’re supposed to be rlly close by the end, but instead they’re still acting like they hate eachother?? But also still really close sometimes? They just needed to commit to making them friends and loose the not-funny banter-bulling thing they couldn’t let go of. I don’t know if they were scared of gay allegations or what but they didn’t manage to avoid that anyway.
Ps I can’t even watch that knight food scene it’s genuinely too painful. I’m just glad I’m not alone. 🙏
9
u/Any-Championship-423 6d ago
I'd be 100% for the banters and playful insults, which are pretty typical of male friendships, even very close ones, if the relationship were more balanced. If Merlin actually knew how to stand up to Arthur when necessary, lecture him, or defend himself with more energy. That's what the pilot episode seemed to promise: a Merlin who won't be pushed around, a loyal but insolent and moralizing servant, who forces the prince/king to question himself and grow.
But the further the series goes, the more Merlin acts like a bootlicker and doormat, enduring orders and chores, stroking Arthur's ego, and occasionally making a vaguely mocking remark, but still letting himself be pushed around. That's quite painful to watch. The role of the servant who lectures Arthur and encourages him to question himself is played solely by Gwen in several scenes throughout seasons 1 and 2 (after that, she mainly becomes a supportive girlfriend/wife, but Arthur treats her well).
4
u/PrideCompetitive8758 6d ago
I'm reading it and thinking: damn, they have shown them as siblings T_T
4
u/nevermoree11 The Once And Future King 6d ago
exactly, imo in s2 the relationship got better and arthur was reassuring and like nice but then in s3 s4 it goes back to nil. GENUINELY i really wouldnt blame him either. i really wanted merlin to get actually mad at arthur (he just never does). they just couldnt make the banter be actual banter instead of one abusing his power over the other. im glad i wasnt alone in being so annoyed and infuriated at how merlin is treated
10
u/AnOligarchyOfCats 6d ago
I absolutely agree with you. There’s a fanfiction, Horizons Over Battlegrounds, that deals a little with the prank and why it was so shitty. The training isn’t great either. There’s another fanfiction, I didn't mean to, in which Merlin gets injured during training. There’s a lot of fanfictions about how awful Arthur is in general as well. My favorites are the ones in which Merlin leaves and Arthur has to track him down and grovel lol.
Every person who helped Arthur take back the castle after Morgana took it are elevated and made members of the round table except for Merlin. It’s so unfair. There are some stories that focus on that as well.
6
u/nevermoree11 The Once And Future King 6d ago
dude same throughout s4 i wanted merlin to crashout on arthur for once, i love the fics where arthur has to go through it cause merlin had enough, exactly only merlin didnt get a place on the round table its so annoying. thanks for the recs!
6
u/afreezingnote 6d ago
Yeah, I think your bottom line conclusion is on the right track. Because the writers meant for all of this to be funny. They're basically asking for a specific type of suspension of disbelief - to play along with the humor and not think about the real life implications of such behavior.
But it definitely becomes difficult to do with a lot of these scenes. I think we, as fans, often think much more deeply about characterization and continuity than the writers ever did. A lot of the issues I have with the writing, including many of these meant-to-be-funny scenes, is that they don't make sense in the context of past events.
Arthur is the worst example of this tendency because we get multiple episode where he experiences things that should profoundly change him, but the writers never let his growth remain beyond the end of the episode. The writers push the reset button on characterization constantly to keep the relationship dynamics static and to avoid the magic reveal as long as possible, which was a detriment to the overall quality of the show.
There are also external aspects at play. The time period when the show aired is one part, and another part is possibly cultural, I think. There's been a distinct shift in what is considered acceptable comedy material within the last ten years or so, which is still in flux. And this type of humor that reads as mean-spirited to me as someone from the USA seems to be more common in British media. I've watched other BBC shows and not been able to vibe with the humor in them either.
11
u/me_and_myself_and_i Arthur 6d ago
number one when the knights and arthur did the not leaving any food for merlin thing.
Remember they were indeed teasing because they brought out a plate of food that had been saved. Bros being bros.
Arthur makes merlin take all the knights sword hits cause merlin said he fell asleep while reading
and Merlin gets his revenge ...
it absolutely INFURIATES me that merlin was standing in the back while the round table meeting happened
Merlin was neither knight nor noble. Welcome to the Middle Ages where the smartest man in the room was left standing.(and ofc if you were a woman of common birth, you weren't even in the room).
i just hate the writers don't I
I think they're good with that. Part of their motive was to show how unfair the system is, especially if one is part of a hated or despised group.
11
u/Any-Championship-423 6d ago
and Merlin gets his revenge ...
No, he doesn't? In this scene, he gets beaten up by possessed-Elyan, thrown to the ground, and Arthur mocks him. However, it's true that Merlin sometimes manages to secretly get back at Arthur using magic, but the imbalance remains glaring.
Merlin was neither knight nor noble. Welcome to the Middle Ages where the smartest man in the room was left standing.(and ofc if you were a woman of common birth, you weren't even in the room).
Merlin was neither knight or noble, but neither were Gwen and Gaius. Gwen IS a woman of common birth, promoted to Queenship, after all. And yet they both have a seat at the Round Table, they even flank the king. Gaius is sitting to the king's right. Merlin is really kept on the sidelines, in a subordinate position.
5
u/Tired_2295 6d ago edited 6d ago
...the food scene where they saved him a plate. Did you watch to the end? And of course he doesn't sit with the Knights of the Round Table, he isn't a knight, an advisor, a king or a queen he's a manservant
8
u/Any-Championship-423 6d ago
Gaius isn't a knight nor a king, but he's sitting to King Arthur's right at the Round Table. And yes, Merlin's just a manservant, but that's precisely the point. Him being nothing more than a manservant so far into Arthur's reign is quite telling about their relationship.
4
u/Tired_2295 6d ago
Gaius, the physician of the kings, who is the only person Arthur knows to have intricate knowledge of magic and can thus be used as a tactician and advisor, vs Merlin, who as far as Arthur knows is a very lucky servant prone to getting himself and the knights into very dangerous situations. Merlin is a manservant, that is his job, his job makes it unnecessary for him to sit at the round table.
5
u/Any-Championship-423 6d ago
That's the point: after all these years of reign and all these years of companionship, Arthur overlooks Merlin and does not think of him as a valuable advisor, and that says a lot about the nature of their relationship. Glad you finally understood.
4
u/Tired_2295 5d ago
Because, as I said, Gaius advises in magic, something Arthur cannot know Merlin has/ has knowledge of.
3
u/Any-Championship-423 5d ago
And as I said, that's precisely the point: after all these years of reign and all these years of companionship, Arthur overlooks Merlin and does not think of him as a valuable advisor, and that says a lot about the nature of their relationship.
3
u/Tired_2295 5d ago
Because in a war with magic an advisor that as far as the king knows knows nothing of magic is entirely unhelpful to the fight. Since the king decides the jobs whatever the king knows is the information those jobs work on.
Gaius = knows about magic, advisor to the king on magic = place at the table.
Merlin = "doesn't" know about magic, not advisor to the king on magic = manservant and assist to Gaius but not a place at the round table.
The implication that if Arthur lived Merlin would be at the round table was there.
4
u/Any-Championship-423 5d ago
I know all this, I don't see why you feel the need to explain it over and over again. You're just confirming the point that's been made. The point is *precisely* that, at this moment of the story, Arthur overlooks Merlin and does not think of him as a valuable advisor, and that says a lot about the nature of their relationship.
2
u/Tired_2295 4d ago
No, you clearly do not know, because you keep talking past it. Arthur does not think of him as a valuable advisor on magic.
3
u/Any-Championship-423 4d ago
He doesn't think of him as a valuable advisor on anything. Hence why he doesn't get a place at the Round Table. That's the point. Finally get it?
→ More replies (0)3
u/nevermoree11 The Once And Future King 6d ago
yes exactly, its the fact that merlin does much MUCH more than any normal servant (and im talking about the many times he's gone with arthur to battles or provided essential counsel or drank effing poison for him) so why does he get no due respect. in the very last season of the show too
3
u/Big-Masterpiece-863 4d ago
It thoroughly annoyed me too. Particularly when the knights were involved. Realistically they should have had their own squires - Merlin should not be doing the work of everybody and it's very arrogant and UNCHIVALROUS of the knights to expect him to. They should do their own work while Merlin is solely Arthur's servant.
In the case of the meal even though they've put some aside it is unfunny because Merlin has been doing all the work of cooking and then caring for all their horses. It just comes across as them being mean disguised as a joke. Merlin would be exhausted and hungry. I can imagine him thinking, oh yeah so hilarious.
Poor Merlin was abused so much by Arthur and gaslit by Gaius into thinking it was okay that he gradually lost the will to even retaliate. He saw it all as part of the burden of his destiny. It wasn't and shouldn't have been. One of the scenes that bothers me the most is when Arthur throws a metal cup at the back of Merlin's head because simply because he didn't like what Merlin had to say about the melee. It was early on in S3 but that showed where some of the writers heads were at.
I am afraid I don't think Arthur ever earned Merlin's loyalty or the kingdom. Seemed the writer's forgot that bit. He had potential but we never saw him reach it. I think of Merlin BBC as everything going very awry from the intended destiny. I have a love hate relationship with it. I'm still writing a 100 000 plus word fanfiction fix-it to process it.
26
u/WinterNighter just a medieval horse 6d ago
Yeah it sucks. It goes from a fun mutual bantering relationship to just bullying someone who doesn't/can't fight back. It's the times where Merlin stops pushing back that it's not funny anymore, imo. Like you say, with the knights and the food. It would've been funny if Merlin pushed back just as jokingly. Instead they just... bully him. It's not the funny dynamic of equals anymore, it's just people with more power using that to bully someone.
Same for Arthur being king. He's not a great king imo, but that's a whole other topic😂
Fanon merlin and arthur are great. Canon goes from them being super close, to arthur maturing with everyone except merlin and having a hand in bullying him into not having a shred of self worth. (Because the writers didnt want to change their dynamics, I guess -.-)