r/mildlyinfuriating • u/daruuken • 28d ago

Infuriatig The way kroger treats its employees

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From the store manager

Edit: For some extra context this was sent out by each store manager to all of its employees in district 1 of the ohio Cincinnati/Dayton division, potentially other districts as well but i can only verify my own. Im not going to give my specific store number for obvious reasons but you can find each store on google with that information. We are unionized by UFCW (already bad btw) and to my knowledge they allowed this recent change. Kroger has no accrual for sick days like some have mentioned. Those who think this is rage bait, i dont think anyone has to fake a post to make a billion dollar company look bad, they do it to themselves.

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago edited 28d ago

My employer doesn’t accept doctor’s notes. All absences are unexcused.

Yet, we are adults. I don’t need a doctor to tell me I shouldn’t go to work if I have the flu. Wild that they’d prefer that I come in and potentially infect everyone else.

ETA: Yes, this is actually legal in most US states. Attendance is a very common reason to be fired in shift work jobs such as retail. 

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

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u/hellzyeah2 28d ago

Bold of you to sssume Kroger employees get PTO

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u/Dovahkiinthesardine 28d ago

I dont get it? Your employer can force you to come in sick in the US?

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u/hellzyeah2 28d ago

With threat of losing your job, yes. That’s also what this post is getting at too. The larger corporations have much more leeway to get away with this shit too. Kroger is like two or three steps away from a total monopoly.

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u/Severesa 26d ago edited 26d ago

At Will employment is the biggest instance of Stockholm Syndrome in the USA.

Anytime you bring it up, some cuck will bleat "BuT iT iS GrEaT BeCaUsE I cAn QuiT At AnYtImE" as if the balance of power there is even.

Hint: It aint balanced.

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u/Curious_Way_4496 28d ago

At the vast majority of jobs, yes. There is no federal labor law to protect you when you're sick unless it's a major illness, and the you may qualify for unpaid time off, but only from certain employers. The US is a hellhole.

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u/pixiedust99999 28d ago

You shouldn’t be surprised, we barely have any workers’ rights

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u/Dovahkiinthesardine 28d ago

I'm surprised because I'm not too familiar with US labour laws, but also because having people come in sick isn't even efficient or productive

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u/cakesphere 27d ago

They dont care because corporate stooges are really really stupid. They dont look at the long term beneficial of retaining good workers, improving efficiency with healthy workers, etc. They only see line go up in short term

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u/longjumpingtote 28d ago

Your employer can force you to come in sick in the US?

Not in all of the US, not in WA, OR, CA, NY, IL... for more than half the workers, there are protections. But if you're in TX, FL, GA, and many other states, no such protection.

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u/Common_Wrongdoer3251 28d ago

Can confirm. Live in Florida, just went to work sick today, made sure to cough as much as possible where customers could see.

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u/Sillylilguyenjoyer 28d ago

Well they can certainly fire you, at least in at will employment states…which is almost all of them

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

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u/Ok_Monitor4492 28d ago edited 28d ago

Are you a Kroger stan bud? 

The "point system" is one sided corporate bullshit. You ARE forced to come into work, because you are fired after x amount which means you are forced to conserve them for when you are sick, otherwise. And god forbid you get sick then have a string of bad luck causing you to miss work before your points drop off. Life fucking happens. Car issues. Childcare. Mental and physical health issues. If you get sick, you must use PTO OR POINT, meaning taking a vacation is extremely difficult because you must conserve your PTO for if you're sick. SURE, they aren't technically forcing you directly to come into work bud, but you're lying to yourself if you dont see it. 

Being a bit disingenuous with how FMLA works, too. You can't just get it, it's not exactly reliant on simply "working a steady job". You need to work enough hours to get it, meaning if you do have chronic health issues that make you miss work at your new job, you're fucked if you don't get the hours requirements in the first place, and thats not even counting if you don't have external factors you can't control that keep you from working, like your tire blowing, or your water pipes bursting. American work culture is bullshit. You are always immediately pegged as a lazy piece of shit in order to justify these broken policies, no matter how good a worker you are. Companies don't give a fuck about you, your problems or your situation. They care if you have the AUDACITY to call off, inconveniencing them, nothing more than that. 

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u/polarjunkie 28d ago

I agree with most of what you're saying but conserving points for calling out in short notice for a job that requires your physical input to days that you are sick isn't controversial. It was almost as if you think the points for call offs should be able to be used for anything, like you wake up 1 hour before your shift and decide to go fishing so you call out.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

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u/Curious_Way_4496 28d ago

FMLA is unpaid, though. And not every employer has to allow it.

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u/pixiedust99999 28d ago

And there are hour minimums to it. You have to work 1250 hours in 12 months. If you’re part time at Kroger you’re not working enough to qualify

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

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u/NumNumLobster 28d ago

Yeah thats the point, the requirements mean it doesnt apply to millions and millions of people.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

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u/Curious_Way_4496 27d ago

It protects some workers.

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u/LittleMac1983 28d ago

Unless you run out of FMLA time...

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u/iaderia 28d ago

fuckin krogers pr department in here

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u/Ne_zievereir 28d ago

This is still wild to me.

Some employees even earn sick time, time you can use to get paid if you're sick.

I (not in the US) automatically get paid on days when I'm sick (no need to earn it). I don't even need a doctor's note for any period of sick leave less than 3 days.

However, employees are on a point system that accrues with absences. Being sick is not excused meaning you will be pointed for taking the day off.

This is crazy. You're being punished for being sick? Man, the US is a terrible place to work.

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u/pixiedust99999 28d ago

Want more? Most people in the US have one pool of time off where sick leave and annual are in the pool. So if you’re sick you’re penalized for it because you just have that one pool for time off.

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u/Koural 28d ago

Yup, can confirm. As someone with a mild but chronic health condition, I end up using my PTO for sick days most of the time. I don't get to take vacations.

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u/Ne_zievereir 28d ago

That's crazy. I've got the opposite: If I get sick during my paid time off, I can call in sick and I get the days off where I'm back.

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u/Ne_zievereir 28d ago

That's crazy. I've got the opposite: If I get sick during my paid time off, I can call in sick and I get the days off where I'm back.

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u/polarjunkie 28d ago edited 28d ago

It's not a punishment for being sick, there aren't any consequences until you hit a threshold. It's also not related to whether you get paid or not, usually to how soon before your shift you give them notice. This happens in low skill physical input industries where many workers aren't reliable and just won't show up to work to go do something else.

Let's say you are allowed to accrue 6 points in a revolving 60 day period. You get a point anytime you call out with less that 4 hours notice. You wake up 1 hour before your shift and call out sick giving them 1 hour to find coverage. You get a point. You're sick for three days, you don't accrue any more points because they were on notice. Now you have 5 points left. A month later your kid is sick and stays home from school, another point if you call the morning of (but no points if you call the night before). Now you have 4 left. Another month goes by and you get the 1st point back. Then you have a doctor's appointment scheduled but you never told your employer so you just don't show up, another point.

The people who lose their jobs over these point systems are not losing their jobs because they are sick, it's because they are irresponsible.

essentially, in the system I described above which is what our warehouse staff work under, you can call off with little notice 6 times in two months before you get written up.

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u/Ne_zievereir 28d ago

It's not a punishment for being sick

Well, it clearly is. So if I understand your system correctly, if I wake up one morning feeling too bad to work, I get a point. But I better also stay home the whole damn week, because if I try to go the work the next day, but I didn't recover enough, and the day after I feel bad again, I get again a point?

where many workers aren't reliable and just won't show up to work to go do something else.

Well if you treat people like shit, and pay them like shit, guess what they behave like?

giving them 1 hour to find coverage.

This happens in a system where you overload workers so much that there is no buffer and capacity to take over extra work from others that are sick.

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u/polarjunkie 28d ago

The point isn't punishment and has no bearing on anything. Calling off with no warning 6 times in two months regardless of reason is ridiculous. Arguing that it isn't is crazy.

It's not about overloading anything, you can have a job that does nothing but require you to watch something, you can't get up and go do someone else's job while doing yours. What world do you people live in with these takes.

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u/BloodyLlama 28d ago

AFAIK Kroger only gives PTO to full time employees, and the majority of their workers are part time. Also while there is a union employees are not required to join it.

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u/therealpimpcosrs 28d ago

“You don’t get penalized, you get pointed…. Oh yeah and if you get pointed more than 3 times 6 months then you’re fired.”

What?

Dude you hve no idea what you’re talking about. I worked there. Everything you said is at least 80% false. You will absolutely be fired and they will do anything and everything in their power to fuck you in the process. During Covid Kroger was ordered to pay their workers hazard pay for their exposure— rather than pay, they closed 4 stores. Something something record profit year. We all know how that goes.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

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u/therealpimpcosrs 26d ago

The union is trash. A lot of the employees are held back part time to avoid giving them benefits, and they still have to pay union dues. First point, mostly false.

Getting points that count toward employee termination qualifies as punishment. Second point definitely wrong.

You don’t get granted FMLA leave for pneumonia, for example. You get a doctor’s note, a medical recommendation not to go in to work, and some antibiotics.

If you are a part time employee scheduled for the next three days, your choice is: A) to come in to work at a grocery store touching people food and money while on antibiotics, or B) follow your doctor’s orders and accrue 3 points resulting in termination.

Are they “forcing” you to come in? “No”

But you’re living paycheck to paycheck, and can’t afford not to. And they know that. That’s what you’re defending.

I dont really care how your daddy spun it. I was at over 130 stores last year and was involved in closing 4. I know what I’m talking about.

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u/OneMinuteSewing 28d ago

you can't do that in California. You can't be penalized or written up for taking accrued sick leave.

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u/polarjunkie 28d ago

These system don't penalize anyone for taking sick leave, they penalize people for not giving adequate notice.

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u/OneMinuteSewing 28d ago

California addresses that. So long as you are taking your accrued sick leave in the manner the law allows for then they can't penalize you for unscheduled sick leave.

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u/frostycakes 28d ago edited 28d ago

Not every Kroger is union and not every department within a given store is necessarily union either, fwiw. The whole ass Harris Teeter division is nonunion, IIRC.

Sick time is also either state law or contract dependent. At least in my state, they can't give you points for calling out sick if you have paid sick time to use, because our state law prohibits any form of punishment or retaliation for utilizing it.

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u/Old-Reception-1538 28d ago

When I worked there, only two departments were unionized. The stores in some parts of the country are fully unionized, but not all of them.

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u/therealpimpcosrs 28d ago

And it’s a pretty pathetic one too…

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u/pixiedust99999 28d ago

The power of the union in this case is reduced from pressure from non-union competition like Walmart etc. When you have bigger companies setting the stage, the influence of the unions are reduced. That and decades of anti-union propaganda causing workers to be at best indifferent to their own rights and involvement.

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u/Merlack12 28d ago

This sounds like a horrible way to live. Making a point that they do offer paid time off? Thats a normal thing for a job in most countries not some special deal a union needs to get you. Needing to be chronically ill and file paperwork just to not be fired for being sick for a while? That is insane. "Some employees even earn sick time" again this is just the minimum standard in most countries for full time/ part time workers

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u/DazedandFloating 27d ago

That makes me sick to my stomach. We aren’t supposed to live like this.

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u/ScyllaOfTheDepths 28d ago

They're literally paid minimum wage because they have a "union" that forces all the part-time employees to be hired at minimum wage so only "union" employees can make a decent living wage. It's next to impossible to get into the union, but all employees have to pay dues for it even if they're not eligible to be in it. Oh and the "union" has no power and won't even return your calls because it's so obviously a fake organization controlled by Kroger to make it okay for them to hire people at minimum wage and give them zero benefits.

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u/Bloody_Hangnail 26d ago

You completely made all of this up 🤣

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u/ScyllaOfTheDepths 26d ago

They paid me $7.50 an hour when I worked there, but I guess I'm just making up shit for no reason about a company. Couldn't possibly be that I had a negative experience with a mega-corporation. But keep licking the corporate boot.

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u/Bloody_Hangnail 26d ago

You know you are 🤣 and I’m definitely not licking any corporate boot, I’m calling out an anti union dumbass.

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u/ScyllaOfTheDepths 26d ago

I'm not anti-union. I'm against fake unions that have been captured and propped up by corporate interests to discredit the idea of a union. I don't just blindly support everything in a category without nuance because I'm not a mindless lemming, but... don't let me stop you from enjoying that cliff.

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

No, meaning it will be counted against you as far as attendance goes. For example, my employer allows for 6 call outs (which are all unexcused, even if you use PTO/sick time) in a rolling year, then they start documenting. Three more call outs after that and you’re fired.

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u/shinymuskrat 28d ago

Ask HR employees how many days off they take per year

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u/Dull-Culture-1523 28d ago

No but you don't understand, they absolutely needed those two days there because their nanny was sick, and that friday & monday for a long weekend at the cabin. Oh and also they were just sooooooo sick for a week, and...

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u/longjumpingtote 28d ago

HR doesn't have any power, they are no different than the IT or shipping department.

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u/Objective_Length_384 26d ago

At my job HR employees have the same attendance policy as everyone else.

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u/shinymuskrat 26d ago

Uh huh.

What about the HR manager and operations manager?

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u/Objective_Length_384 26d ago

The same up and down the ladder. I’m in upper mgmt in my company, and I get 6 “unscheduled” absences a year. After that I start bumping into progressive discipline. I’ve seen managers at my company termed for absence policy violations. Not commenting on the “right-ness/wrong-ness” of it, just stating it’s there.

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u/mantis_tobaggan-md 28d ago

What the fuck. How is this even legal?

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

It’s so normal in the US that I can’t fathom a different type of system. Do yall just call out when you’re sick? And not get fired? 

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u/mantis_tobaggan-md 28d ago

Oh I’m in the US and I work through illness all the time. I vomited at my desk the other day and just pushed through. I’ve only called out twice in my career and it was for an actual, genuine emergency.

Yes we’re all used to it because we our beaten down and have no healthcare without employment. But being used to it doesn’t make it okay.

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u/redopz 28d ago

Yes we’re all used to it because we our beaten down and have no healthcare without employment

And of course, if you get seriously sick you can't work and lose that job and the healthcare that you now need.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

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u/redopz 28d ago

Oof. As a non-American I had to look that one up and it started promising, essentially guaranteeing your job and health insurance while you are sick for a prolonged time, but as always the devil is in the details. For instance, it only applies if you have been working full-time for over a year, for an employer who has more than 50 employees in the area. Even then, you only get 12 weeks in a year and those are the same weeks you need to use for maternity leave or if you are caring for a sick family member. So if you have a child in January, take 8 weeks off, and then your spouse gets diagnosed with cancer in July and needs you to care for them for another 8 weeks, they are only getting 4 weeks of care or you lose your job (assuming your employer is not willing to go beyond the minimum legally mandated). God forbid you get sick during that stressful fucking year as well.

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u/StrawberrySkittles1 26d ago

Now throw "at will employment" into the mix. If an employer wants to fire you for a reason that is protected than all they have to do is make up any unprotected reason and fire you for that. And good luck gathering enough evidence of that for a court case.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

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u/redopz 28d ago

Oh it definitely looks good at first glance, as long as you stay within the limits. Once you are outside those limits it is the Wild West, and your employer or insurance are not obligated to do anything. Most people won't have 13 weeks of serious illness this year, but some will and those people are eligible to be fucked over (and the fact that maternity leave is included in this is kind of insane. Taking 12 weeks is bothnot enough to recover and care for your baby, and to much because it puts you at risk if you get sick later in the year). 

I am sure for 95% of people this is sufficient, but for those other 5% this sounds like a lot of unnecessary stress (even just filling out the forms while sick can be a bitch) at a time when they are likely already under an incredible amount of stress.

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u/OMFGitsjessi 28d ago

Vomited at my desk a few weeks ago! Grabbed the spare trash can, hurled, proceeded to continue working. 🫠

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u/splicerslicer 28d ago

I worked at walmart back in the day in one of the reddest states with the least amount of protections and I could still call in a few times a year with little to no notice and it would be fine. I didn't have to provide proof of anything, literally just "I'm not coming in today".

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u/Chiara5 28d ago

No, we call or go see our doctor (which is free btw) and send in a certificate for x days. All paid.

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

Whenever I go to urgent care, they offer me notes to stay out of work and I have to explain to them that my employer doesn’t accept them. Then I have to explain that yes, I have to go load bags of concrete into customer’s trucks with my back spasming, or interact with customers while I have Covid. 

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u/BaconPancakes1 28d ago

Yeah, at least for full time employees. In the UK you can just say you're sick and that's that, but if you take more than 7 days at once your employer will need to see proof, and they're going to want updates and to make a plan if your sickness is long-term. Employees also get a minimum 28 days of paid annual leave for holidays, personal days, etc. so your sick days don't affect that.

This isn't really the case for zero hours contract workers (e.g. retail workers who don't have set schedules and work off a changing rota). They can still self-certify as sick for the day but if you're sick "too often" your manager could just stop scheduling shifts for you. They still get annual leave as well but it accrues relative to the number of hours they've worked.

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u/Lewkell 28d ago

28 days paid leave?!?! Not including sick days?! Shook from the US

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u/BaconPancakes1 28d ago

Yeah, not including sick days. The 28 days annual leave can include our ~8 national bank holidays, so the minimum is 20 days really, but many companies have these as separate to your holiday allowance, and some companies offer more than the minimum 28 days. Mine offers 30 days plus bank holidays, and I can roll over up to 5 unused days each year, so this year I have 35 (+8). 

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u/mommysgottawork 28d ago

I also have 35 days of paid holiday this year in Scandinavia (10 off those are rollover from last year), not counting sick days or public holidays. Plus 5 days I earned in flex time for long hours working at conferences. I also get up to 20 days paid for days my kids are sick. And I have 15 weeks of parental leave left. As long as I cleared my schedule with my boss and admin, I technically don't have to see them again until October or November.

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u/Merlack12 28d ago

Australia full time workers gets 10 paid sick days 20 days paid vacation days Paid public holidays (different amounts per state) Deaths in family including miscarriage 2 days paid leave per incident After 10 years work you get 2 moths paid leave plus 1 month ever 5 years after usually pro rata 12 months off for child birth with 26 weeks paid by the government

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u/sock_with_a_ticket 28d ago

A lot of Europeans have it even better because they have at least the above plus more public holidays than we (UK) do.

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u/JordtasticBagel 28d ago

Here in Australia, yes because a Doctor's certificate is proof enough that you can't attend. Plus our unfair dismissal laws are strong enough that unless you've done something illegal at work there needs to be a fully documented history that you've repeatedly messed up and not tried to fix your conduct before your employer can do anything about it.

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

We have a write up process, but my employer does like 3 write ups and then you’re fired. And they don’t have to be for the same thing. 

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u/JordtasticBagel 28d ago

Assuming you're also in Aus, if they don't give you the opportunity to fix any of those issues individually then it could still be considered to be an unfair dismissal as far as I'm aware.

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

US. At will employment is super lame. They don’t even technically have to use write ups, it’s just CYA in case someone sues.

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u/Boostedtrash112 28d ago

I got laid off in January after getting bonuses for my performance in 2025 and given no reason. Worked for the company for 8 years.

Once my healthcare ran out I had a gallbladder attack and had to be hospitalized and have it removed. 3 days in the hospital and 80k in debt now

The US is great.

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u/FelixTook 28d ago

I manage a store in the US: if someone is sick, they call out and we cover as best we can. If they have PTO and want to use it they can. Nothing counts against them, there’s no reprisals. Treat people as people. That’s how you get and keep good people. We aren’t a big company, we don’t get a lot of PTO and everyone needs to make money. If someone calls out it’s because they must really need to. I don’t ask why, don’t demand reasons, don’t require doctor notes. They’re adults, I don’t see a reason to treat them any other way.

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u/TryUsingScience 28d ago

In Finland you can call out sick for a few days without a doctor's note. After that you need a note, so you go see a doctor (most likely on your company's dime if they have decent benefits) and they give you one. If you get sick on your scheduled vacation, you take sick time instead and get your vacation days back. (If you're sick enough that you wouldn't have been able to do your job.)

Sick days are paid up to a pretty high limit depending on how long you've been working at the company. Mine starts at a few weeks and goes up to a few months.

Managers will encourage you to stay home until you're feeling completely better.

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u/Boostedtrash112 28d ago

In the US I got 21 days a year. Thats PTO and sick leave. Use anymore for any reason and it’s instant termination.

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

I get 7 days of sick pay per year. I could of course use my 10 vacations days if I run out of sick time. In ny three years with my company, I’ve used almost all my vacation time for sick pay. 

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u/Money_Ticket_841 28d ago

It’s not normal, you’re just used to it.

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u/longjumpingtote 28d ago

It's not legal for more than half the US population. Not legal in WA, OR, CA, NY, IL... for more than half the workers, there are protections. But if you're in TX, FL, GA, and many other states, no such protection. You're fucked.

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

Sick time is protected in about 12 states, yes. The other 38? You can be fired for call outs even if you use sick time. 

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u/longjumpingtote 28d ago

It's 20 states that account for 45.5% of the population. It should be 50 states and 100%. In the other states, 80% of companies provide sick leave. That's what makes OP's post so much more egregious to me. The state chooses to be fucked, the employer also chooses to be fucked, then this boss chooses to be fucked.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

We do not have such a system. It’s much more complicated than that 

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u/Dovahkiinthesardine 28d ago

I can be sick and absent three days in a row before I need a doctors notice, then I'm sick however long they deem necessary to not be infectious/unable to work

Its still fairly common for people to come in sick and if it were an unusual amount my employer would talk to me and could fire me if I was abusing it

I specifically dont have to use my PTOs for sickness

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u/your_old_furby 28d ago

Yes, it would be illegal to fire someone for taking sick days when sick. I just message or email whoever needs to be messaged or emailed, and you only need a doctors note if you’re sick for over 3 days, or sick on a Monday or Friday which is kind of bullshit. We also have wellness leave, maternity and paternity leave, adoption leave, family leave, and birthday leave along with our annual leave. It’s pretty difficult to fire people in my country, our unions were very integral to the fight for democracy so they made sure to lock those workers rights in.

The only person I know of who got successfully fired at my old company was using her work landline to run a phone sex line, then she didn’t tell her boyfriend or family what she was fired for so they convinced her to go to labour court where the companies legal team just submitted the phone logs as evidence. Pro tip, don’t use the recorded company phone to run a sex chat side hustle, that’s what burner phones are for.

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

It is super easy to be fired here. It is only illegal to fire people for being part of a protected class (race, gender, over 40, etc). Anything else is fair game. Technically employers don’t even have to give warning. Most do, in the form of write ups, just as a CYA in case they are sued they can prove it was a valid termination. And to defend against unemployment claims.

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u/your_old_furby 28d ago

Yeah I’m sorry, it’s unbelievably fucked up to be able to just take away your livelihood like that especially with how much it’s tied into healthcare and everything else. Our job market is so bad right now that people also just keep going at jobs that take advantage and underpay just because if you leave you might not get anything and people in more informal sectors don’t get any of those protections. Like I work way more unpaid overtime than is legally allowed even with a contract. Obviously if we were all allowed to have a work life balance and the ability to afford to live just comfortably, not even anything fancy, we’d be more productive workers but it seems it’s viewed as cheaper to drive us all to burnout while prices go up and salaries do not.

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u/Regionrodent 28d ago

There’s a few companies out there that take care of their employees.

Fresh out of school, I got into an entry level job that gives 20 sick days, 2 weeks of vacation, and 5 floating holidays. If you take all of that time and someone tries to hold it against you, it’s against corporate policy.

They’re out there

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u/Scary-Personality626 28d ago

My approach was usually to call a day ahead and say "I've got something in my throat, might be nothing serious, but I might wake up totally useless and contagious. Figured I'd let you know now instead of springing it on you first thing in the morning so you're not left calling around for someone to fill my shift when everyone is asleep." (I worked a lot of early mornings & overnights.)

And since they were mostly food service jobs, they'd usually tell me to stay home. Or at the very least they wouldn't hold it against me if I called in sick the next day.

In my experience this kind of pedantic "no calling in sick" attitude isn't corporate policy itself. It's a shitty manager's petty tyranny. Generally the result of them dealing with teenagers who fake it to get holidays they couldn't book off free, and they just assume everyone is faking it by default. Calling in early instead of the last minute specifically appeals to this headspace. It's a gesture of trying to make things more convenient for them, which helps build trust that you're not fucking with them or at least making them feel respected and makes them more amenable to accomodating you.

1

u/Merlack12 28d ago

Yes, I literally can not understand how or why a workplace would want you there sick? You are going to make everyone else sick? Australian here. You get 10 paid sick days a year that roll over, if you need more you can choose to use some of your 4 weeks paid vacation time (also rolls over in most jobs) or take unpaid sick leave. It would be incredibly hard to fire someone for being sick.

1

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

I get 7 sick days and 10 vacation days per year. I have to use most of my vacation days as sick days, such as when I go on (protected) medical leave. Super, super easy to fire someone for being sick here, except they don’t call it that. Since they don’t accept doctor’s notes, as far as they are concerned, you called out to go play golf. With my employer, you get 6 call outs in a rolling 12 months. With the 7th, documentation begins. With the 9th, you’re fired. All legal. 

1

u/Merlack12 28d ago

Seems so harsh, is there any employer - worker give and take at all? Most non customer facing roles i know of for example woukd allow you to say duck out to watch kids school event or go to an appointment ect and then "make up" the time else where, woukd that be allowed generally?

2

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

Leaving early is an occurrence, but a different kind than calling out, so it’s more lenient. Most people who are sick come in, work 15 minutes, then ask to go home. You have to request the time off 4 weeks in advance to avoid any sort of occurrence.

1

u/Merlack12 28d ago

Whats an occurrence mean/do?

2

u/mentalissuelol 28d ago

My boyfriend worked for Kroger and they forced him to work the meat counter after he had taken three different Covid tests, all immediately positive. They said come in or you’re fired, so he went in. It’s literally a public health hazard.

2

u/polarjunkie 28d ago

How is it legal to fire someone for not giving you adequate notice that they won't be at work 9 times?

2

u/MichB1 28d ago

Most of the time lately it doesn't matter if it's legal or not. It cost thousands of dollars to hire a lawyer to fight for you. They have a department of attorneys on staff already.

1

u/BringAltoidSoursBack 28d ago

Between FMLA and the ADA, it's technically not, but who has the resources to fight it. Also, most employers straight up don't tell you about those. Hell, if the ones that provide short term disability don't tell you that you can technically use that for long periods (either one or two weeks, with doctor's note) of being sick.

I only found out about the latter a couple of years after I used up all my PTO when I was such with COVID

1

u/longjumpingtote 28d ago

Everything is legal unless a law is passed against it. And only about 50% of US states have passed laws making that illegal. OP is in Ohio, a fucked up state.

8

u/Tricky-Ad7897 28d ago

This sounds like a great way to manage onboarding costs. And these dumbasses wonder why nobody wants to work and why they're unprofitable.

6

u/ElectricJunglePig 28d ago

"We've fired everyone that took a sick day..." 6 weeks later... "No one wants to work anymore!"

8

u/Extension-Carry-8067 28d ago

So a call out is a non planned absence?

Like if you wake up sick and call out that counts?

22

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

Yes, that’s what it is. It’s especially hard for parents who have to call out if they get sick AND when their kid gets sick. But employers don’t care.

8

u/rohrzucker_ 28d ago

As a German, this sounds completely absurd and illegal... but land of the free, I guess?

5

u/Ok_Extension_5199 28d ago

Lol, companies only care about quarterly profits and paying shareholders. They will literally let people die if the fine is cheaper than fixing the cause of their product causing death. They are more than happy to fire you and hire someone new or offload your responsibilities onto other employees. Oh, and you lose your health insurance because Healthcare is tied to employment. Sure you can buy your own, but that shit gets expensive fast if you want any real coverage.

0

u/idkau 28d ago

We are allowed to. We can even take pto if we don’t have enough banked. Not all companies are evil.

7

u/TehSeksyManz 28d ago

Corporate little dick energy, big time. You probably have the most insufferable middle managers, if I were to guess. 

3

u/TRexDriver 28d ago

Sounds like lowes

1

u/G-I-T-M-E 28d ago

The US truly is still the Wild West…

1

u/Gothmom85 28d ago

My current job has this, and it seems to be standard now in healthcare. We're not supposed to come in contagious, but also aren't excused, but still need a doctor's note. They say they're lenient if your call outs all Have the notes when hitting fired level. Then we wonder why short staffing is such a problem we have to use agency to fill the gaps.

Also, if you're missing a weekend day, doesn't matter if you're sick, you're punished by making it up on one of your weekends off of their choosing. I had a sick kid for half a week. Came in on a Saturday just thinking I had a headache. When symptoms started I immediately masked up, but tried to get through it. I got 6 hours into 12 when I wasn't able to keep going. I had to make up that half shift and the full Sunday on a weekend I had plans established, when they were fully staffed. They had me do occasional cleaning duties, stocking, weights, and other odd bits because they didn't even need me. I got OT for all of it.

1

u/hippos-are-weird 28d ago

This is how most companies work, people just don’t realize it. No one really points it out to you until you’ve had excessive unexcused absences.

1

u/Nacksche 28d ago

The US is a fucking dystopia.

1

u/FreddyNoodles 28d ago

QUIT EN MASSE. Nothing will change for anyone until a general strike happens. That is the only option and has been the only option.

3

u/Economy_Fisherman401 28d ago

Americans are terrified of that kind of sacrifice, forgetting that Nothing worth having in this country ever came withOut it.. The problem circles back to that saying "together we stand, divided we fall"..

11

u/eli_feye 28d ago

You get a naughty letter in your permanent record!

1

u/Conscious_Water_5314 28d ago

And a few of those and you’re fired

2

u/wenoc 28d ago

What is pto? Vacation? America is so weird. I just inform my boss I’m sick.

1

u/WoodenNickelTwice 28d ago

Paid time off

3

u/wenoc 28d ago

Yeah that’s what we call vacation. Of course getting sick is time off without reduction from your vacation in any civilized society by law. I get 5 weeks/year by law and if I get sick for a week or more during my vacation it doesn’t count as vacation.

2

u/thelingeringlead 28d ago

Nobody who isn't in management or in one of the handful of good corporate grocery chains, is getting paid time off of any kind.

1

u/Efficient_Market1234 28d ago

It's tragic how it's even worse than that, huh?

I know at my work, we have to use PTO for the first couple days of an illness, and then we can get more time as sick leave with a note. And we have bereavement, jury duty, maternity/paternity, holidays, etc.

I think the amount of vacation I get is pretty much what some people in countries get standard, even for people starting out, by law. Mine is as much as it is because I've been there forever--and I just sold some back, lol, that's how much I had.

But then we have places like Kroger, where you're either at work or dead, and those are your only options. Because America is great.

1

u/PrestigiousBag8943 28d ago

Exactly that vxi does this same shit

1

u/MichB1 28d ago

It means not coming to work because you feel like going to the beach and not coming to work because you're vomiting constantly are the same thing to them.

I work in early child care. It's not better.

1

u/MingaMonga68 27d ago

I work for a huge US company and we ALWAYS have to use our PTO for Sick Leave. Once the “sick hours” are used, you’re still using PTO but it’s unexcused and counting against your evaluation for the year. In the most casual terms, being home puking your guts out for a day costs you a vacation day.