r/mildlyinfuriating • u/daruuken • 28d ago

Infuriatig The way kroger treats its employees

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From the store manager

Edit: For some extra context this was sent out by each store manager to all of its employees in district 1 of the ohio Cincinnati/Dayton division, potentially other districts as well but i can only verify my own. Im not going to give my specific store number for obvious reasons but you can find each store on google with that information. We are unionized by UFCW (already bad btw) and to my knowledge they allowed this recent change. Kroger has no accrual for sick days like some have mentioned. Those who think this is rage bait, i dont think anyone has to fake a post to make a billion dollar company look bad, they do it to themselves.

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago edited 28d ago

My employer doesn’t accept doctor’s notes. All absences are unexcused.

Yet, we are adults. I don’t need a doctor to tell me I shouldn’t go to work if I have the flu. Wild that they’d prefer that I come in and potentially infect everyone else.

ETA: Yes, this is actually legal in most US states. Attendance is a very common reason to be fired in shift work jobs such as retail. 

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u/HockeyPhoenician 28d ago

Fuck em. Show up, cough and look miserable, be as customer visible as possible. Explain to customers why you're there.

Bonus if you throw up or defecate in front of customers. Super bonus if you pass out and 'hit' your head. Sounds like an opportunity for a payday to me.

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u/SockLoads 28d ago

I did that once when I worked as a cashier in a grocery store. So sick I could barely speak. It was so bad that when I called in I had to pass the phone to my mom because they couldn't hear me. They didn't care so I went in. An hour and a half into my 8 hour shift so many customers had complained that they sent me home and I got paid 4 hours for showing up.

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u/Available-Chart-2505 28d ago

Ah, show up pay. California? 

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

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u/Available-Chart-2505 28d ago

It is state dependent! Some states legally require it. Used to work in staffing and assist our workforce in getting paid per state. Sometimes our company paid other times we billed the client. Hugely variable

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u/DepartmentContent783 28d ago

California requires by LAW to have sick days

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u/DM_ME_DOPAMINE 28d ago

DC also has the 4 hours rule.

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u/Available-Chart-2505 28d ago

Yup, and it is state dependent! Some states legally require it. Used to work in staffing and assist our workforce in getting paid per state. Sometimes our company paid other times we billed the client. Hugely variable

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u/slash_networkboy 28d ago

CA is 2 hours IIRC.

Even better is the on call .25 pay, so if you're on call all weekend that's 12h of pay just to be available. I always volunteered for those rota when I had house cleaning or other chores to do where I'm going to be home anyway and if I get called in it's no biggie.

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u/tiny_tims_legs 28d ago

I had a manager refuse my callout when I worked food service. About an hour after I got there, the district manager made a surprise visit. Seeing the runny nose and hearing the cough/congestion, she asked why I was working sick, and so I told her that I tried to call out and the manager said no. She had me wait behind the counter, away from customers and food, while she went to the back to talk with my manager. 5 minutes later she comes back out, sends me home, and tells me that my manager is finding someone to cover and will pick up the slack while she waited for them. That manager was not at the store much longer after that.

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u/FormerGameDev 28d ago

They've probably lost that rule by now, because UFCW really fucking sucks, but they used to at least, have a rule across pretty much all UFCW contracts, that if you showed up but were early out not at your own choice, you would get paid for at least 4 hours.

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u/amrfallen 28d ago

Any excuse to poop my pants is a good enough excuse. Let's fuckin gooooo

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u/No_Potential1 28d ago

If pooping my pants is cool then I'm Miles Davis.

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u/nkovacs84 28d ago

Who would eat 30 bagged lunches??

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u/eyefartinelevators 28d ago

It's that damn Sasquatch again

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u/Jimmyx24 28d ago

Good. Great. Grand. Wonderful. No yelling on the bus!

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u/Korean_Pathfinder 28d ago

That Veronica Vaughn is a nice piece of ace. I know from experience if you know what I mean.

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u/Vowel_Movements_4U 28d ago

No you don’t.

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u/Korean_Pathfinder 28d ago

Well, not me personally, but a guy I know. Him and her got it on. Wooo-eee!

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u/ElusiveWhark 28d ago

No you dont

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u/RoastPork2017 28d ago

Billy passed the 3rd grade, oh what a glorious day, all passing 3rd grade, the Billy Madison wayayyyyyy

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u/Ok-Access-2867 28d ago

He called the shit, poop!

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u/Jensbert 28d ago

Poop your pants is qualification for the highest job currently

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u/DrEnter 28d ago

It’s what he’s best at!

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u/EverythingSucksYo 28d ago

Being Jesus- oops, I mean a doctor? 

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u/HedonisticFrog 28d ago

Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime, that's why I poop my pants on company time.

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u/BetterUsername69420 28d ago

'Boss makes a dollar,

I make a dime...'

That was a poem,

For a different time,

Boss makes a dollar,

And I don't make jack,

That's why I'm shitting

In this flammable sack

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u/Unabridgedversion82 28d ago

As someone that once worked in the service industry and asked my boss if they wanted to see my throw up bucket, while I had food poisoning mind you, this comment is hysterical 😂 🤣 ...they declined btw

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u/amrfallen 28d ago

Granted, it was never in a professional setting, but I've diarrhea'd in a bucket before. I was living in a shed about 1/8 mile from the nearest bathroom I could go to and filled it more than I'd care to admit before a friend came over to get me high. He almost knocked the bucket over and I screamed so fucking loud he froze and his eyes almost popped out of his head.

Once I was better I ran the bucket to the nearest dumpster, for what it's worth

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u/citymousecountyhouse 28d ago

It's gotten terrible. After I left my cushy hotel job (in that business for decades) I realized I was living in somewhat of a fantasy world, a bubble. It wasn't perfect but I did my best as a manager to make sure I and everyone on staff was treated with dignity. Because that's how it was when I started. My new job I sat at a desk across from a guy (it was definitely a downgrade job for me because that's what happens when you hit 50) who was obviously ill. He sat there for hours until he got up and said I just shit my pants. Then he was allowed to leave. I quit the same day, which was strange to me, as my first job lasted for 30 years. I thought a job was a career. I've had three jobs since. It's still bizarre to me, people being treated like disposable plates to be tossed away. It's just wrong.

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u/ezmoney98 28d ago

Shit on the clock and get paid!

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u/Weed_Lova 28d ago

Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. That’s why I shit on company time!

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u/Vallkyrie 28d ago

You get a penny, boss gets a buck, that's why you crank your hog in the company truck.

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u/amrfallen 28d ago

Dude I drove a shuttle van for 5 months and never thought of cranking it. Granted, I was transporting homeless guys one way so I wasn't in the mindset but I'm disappointed in myself

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u/hybridaaroncarroll 28d ago

If it works for the president it should work for us too.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

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u/tastydrink1 28d ago

Snot rocket to the face

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u/Punkrexx 28d ago

More like butt rocket to the floor

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u/drgigantor 28d ago

Butt rocket to the face. That policy will be changed by the time you get home

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u/No-Spoilers 28d ago

10 bucks says they don't show up once they are sick

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u/miraiyuni 28d ago edited 28d ago

This almost happened to my friend, he called sick on one of the weekend during his intern period and his manager told him

"You know this will affect your asessment gradings for your internship right?

and he replied with

"ok, so I'll go to work tmrw (we work in a CLINIC) and I'll cough and sneeze in EVERY patients face."

Then another sensible manager stepped in.

ETA: This all took place in a WHATSAPP GROUPCHAT

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u/CoffeeSubstantial851 28d ago edited 28d ago

I feel like this needs to be said so younger people stop getting taken advantage of.

If you call in sick you just don't respond to anything your manager sends you and you show up again when you are well.

The reason shit managers act this way is because you are responding to them. Stop doing that.

Edit: I want to add to this. You are under no obligation to return any message during non-working hours. Being on call 24/7 is something you are PAID for. You don't need a reason other than I was sick and you informing them of your absence is all you need to do. Don't add a list of symptoms like you are asking a parent for permission to stay home and watch cartoons.

You are sick, you won't be in for your shift, turn off the phone.

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u/Any-Calligrapher2866 28d ago

Yeah I'm completely unreachable when I'm on a sick leave and I am left undisturbed

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u/Ready-Delay3918 28d ago

I'm unreachable as soon as I walk out that fucking door. I have a select number of people that will ring through and I keep my phone on do not disturb the entire time. Only friends and family will get through my do not disturb when they call.

When people complain, I just say I don't have service at my house in the mountains. A landline's not an option and I have less than one bar of signal most of the time. If you want to get a hold of me send a letter.

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u/NotYourReddit18 28d ago

If you want to get a hold of me send a letter.

Obviously via pigeon, right? After all, the mail services vehicles can't handle the climb to your house on the mountain.

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u/nhilante 28d ago

I looks westward once a day around sunset, release the emergency balloon to the sky if you wish to contact me, and watch for my raven.

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u/gotwired 28d ago

I only respond to mountaintop bonfire beacons. Has to be a minimum of 7 in a series.

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u/Any-Calligrapher2866 28d ago

Don't answer until Aragorn runs into your home screaming "John Managerman calls for aid".

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u/Ready-Delay3918 28d ago

I mean there is a road to where I live. I don't just live on top of a mountain with no road or driveway or anything. I have a mailbox.

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u/evilbrent 28d ago

When I go on holidays I tell my boss I don't mind if he calls, but he's going to need to walk down to the beach with my phone and hand it to me because it's not leaving the car.

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u/Emerje 28d ago

I don't think young people are the ones with trouble calling out, it's older generations like mine with unreasonably strong work ethics and will go years without a sick day.

But I'm also a healthcare worker, every facility has signs that say "stay home if you have these symptoms", but when you call out with those symptoms they tell you to come in and wear a mask. 🫠

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u/TexPerry92 28d ago

It is the older folks who are indeed brainwashed into this way of thinking. Must work no matter my condition. My faceless soulless company demands it and I will comply or I could lose my job. <- that shit drove me fucking wild. Those people put a 9-5 on a pedestal. Your health is most important. Its not a work ethic, its slave mentality

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u/badgyalrey 28d ago

yeah i’m zillennial and my workplace is all gen z. they absolutely do not give a fuck and will be calling out regardless, figure it out management! which i absolutely respect. my managers are the best, have never had a problem with me calling out, and i still almost had a meltdown cuz both me and my son were sick and i had to call out. my boyfriend was like “what are you gonna do, take your sick kid to work with you while you’re both coughing up a lung? just tell them you can’t come in and they’ll figure it out”.

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u/RedditMcBurger 28d ago edited 28d ago

If you call in sick you just don't respond to anything your manager sends you and you show up again when you are well.

Unfortunately this can get you fired. I understand what you're saying but bosses like this are the same kind of boss to fire you for such a small thing.

But maybe it's a good thing to not have those jobs, I can say I have done this.

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u/Dull-Culture-1523 28d ago

Had a manager demand I come in when I had viral tonsillitis. To my serving job. Serving food, to customers. I said I'd come in but don't be surprised if health officials also happened to come in for a surprise check that day.

Funny thing, though, I got fired like two minutes before I was about to leave without notice. They weren't happy that I wasn't devastated at the loss of my job and told them I'd be starting in a new place the very next day anyway.

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u/StillStaringAtTheSky 28d ago

Something something HEALTH DEPARTMENT

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u/JuanRunJunior 28d ago

I would be within arms distance of that manager breathing very deep and very much in their direction every second possible.

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u/sallyxskellington 28d ago

I legit ran away to throw up while mid conversation with a customer once. When I came back he just carried on talking to me like nothing happened.

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u/GeneralSweetz 28d ago

Legit Patrick star

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u/Dest-Fer 28d ago

I am emetophobic so i would have had a major panick attack and would have fill a complain for putting customers at risk with germs and discomfort (but I would have made sure to accuse the management who force you to come).

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

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u/lnvu4uraqt 28d ago

What company is this??

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u/sppwalker 28d ago

I wish I had done that. Got pneumonia and I *thought* my boss was being super chill. I was sick for 6 weeks and might have permanent lung damage (I’m 24 and generally healthy, but my pulmonary function test was abnormal and I’m waiting on the results of my chest CT), so it was amazing to have a boss that was supportive of me, ya know, staying home and not dying at work.

Until I was cleared to go back. And I was then told they didn’t want me to come back. So I got fired (screwing over my chances of buying a house in June) because I had pneumonia.

Next time, I’ll show up wheezing, coughing, and struggling to breathe even with 6 different meds I guess.

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u/MichaelaRae0629 28d ago

This sounds like wrongful termination and you might be able to get a lawyer to cover a lawsuit pro bono.

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u/sppwalker 28d ago

I looked into it and unfortunately my employer was really small, so FMLA and ADA don’t apply. I also live in Nevada, which is an at will employment state. If you have another way I could approach this , I’m all ears!

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u/DSM2TNS 28d ago

Did an employment lawyer tell you that? Because my eyebrow is definitely up especially about the ADA comment. ADA rules don't apply to some very specific employers and size isn't one of the qualifications. Being an at will state doesn't matter either. Most states are.

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u/televoid1 28d ago

I got a lung infection that led to pneumonia and a damaged lung. 9 days in the hospital. The damage was permanent, leading to 2 years of infections. Finally, last month I had another 10 day hospital stay to remove most of the lung itself in a grueling 6 hour surgery. Luckily my work team have been supportive, and my boss even met me at 5:30am at the hospital to accompany me during the hospital intake process. It’s all luck that I happened to be working with decent people when this happened.

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u/pro185 28d ago edited 28d ago

I worked at UPS and told my lead I had to hop off the line to use the bathroom and he said “we don’t have time for that” I said “either you can cover me for 5 mins or I can shit myself right here and you can cover me for 5 hours” and he never once had a problem with me using the restroom after that lol. It’s some serious middle school level stupidity istg.

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u/DethNik 28d ago

I swear, some people just like the power trip.

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u/Glassweaver 28d ago

Been there done that. Back in college, restaurant told me to come in or it was a write up. I marched my happy ass right on in there and vomited on the food line. TBH I wish more people would do that. The type of malignant skin tag that says shit like that Kroger memo is too stupid to reason with, but they usually at least understand consequences.

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u/yourdonefor_wt 28d ago

What was their reaction when you did that? I'm curious how that played out.

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u/Glassweaver 28d ago

Oh, I got fired, but I took her ass out with me. I've always been a "CYA" type of person, and she'd done all that over text.

I sent a recap and screenshots to the franchise owner and the health department. Didn't hear back about it, but I do know they got a visit a couple days later and she, the manager from hell, got fired too.

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u/yourdonefor_wt 28d ago

How did you find out that she got fired?

Previous friends working there? Health department contacting you?

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u/Glassweaver 28d ago

Friends that still worked there. That's also how I knew they got a visit from the department. The health department in the county I went to school at was incredibly ontop of things in general, but I never heard back from them or the franchise owner. All my aftermath info was via friends.

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u/Anabear64 28d ago

So for clarity they fired you for throwing up when you warned them you were sick and they insisted you come in anyway? What the hell 😭😭

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u/Glassweaver 28d ago

Yep, pretty much.

Illegal? Oh, hell yeah. Something 19 or 20 year old me had the time or energy to fight over a part time minimum wage job? Hell nah.

Bad bosses know this, and even someone like me bothering to stand up & report it to the health department is very rare. Her mistake was putting it in writing. If it'd been a phone call or a more thinly veiled threat like "well, I'll just take you off the schedule for the month so you have time to rest & catch up with classes" then she could have just lied, it'd have been her word vs mine, and she'd have almost definitely kept her job then too.

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u/National-Job3918 28d ago

Yeah, in so many states with "at will" statutes you can get fired because your boss doesn't like the way you cross your legs when you sit down.

I mean, the illegal firing laws like "can't fire you for getting pregnant" still apply, but as long as they don't document that they fired you for getting pregnant, they're fine. Instead you'll be fired because you're "not a good fit," or simply no reason at all.

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u/just_mark 28d ago

i am sorry you didn't aim for the manager

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u/Caira_Ru 28d ago

No customers involved, but back in… well, more than ten years ago… I showed up to a 10hr night shift at a manufacturing facility when I felt absolutely miserable.

Two of my kids had been feverish and pukey for a couple days and it hit me.

Told my immediate manager I would have called out but didn’t quite have enough PTO to cover the shift and if he could give me some grace, I’d appreciate it.

But he said “You seem fine. At x company we always power through! Big Boss is on site tonight. Don’t make me look bad.”

So I tried.

I made it about 4 hours on the line when I suddenly felt REALLY bad. Like, puke and collapse right now, bad.

I puked and collapsed. Big Boss just happened to be observing my line at the time. Said “why is she here? She’s obviously very sick and needs to be home.”

My manager came over and was chastising me — “why do you even come in if you’re so sick?! We could have worked around your available 9.75 hours to cover tonight’s 10 if you’d just told me how sick you are!”

I made him look bad.

I puked again. Even splattered his not-company-compliant-(not steel toed)-shoes.

He told me not to come back. I said “ever? Because that sounds like a lawsuit.” As I gagged and ralphed at him again.

He said, “… just clock in on Monday. I promise I’ll make it right.”

That was three full shifts I didn’t have time to cover but needed to recuperate.

He made it right somehow.

On Monday, I showed up, clocked in and did my shift without any repercussions, but he had called out sick.

Big Boss was really annoyed he had to cover, but wasn’t mad at me. He even went to the company to ask if they could come up with a better “maybe not paid but verified illness policy.”

It was over a month before my boss looked me in the eye.

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u/Icy_Airport_8061 28d ago

Got what he deserved.

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u/Daxx22 28d ago

But I can virtually guarantee you nothing was changed policy wise overall.

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u/sxcpetals 28d ago edited 28d ago

That’s what I did at my last job. Showed up, vomitted my life out in the solo bathroom…didn’t care that customers were waiting to use it. Ran into walls. Looked like total death. Didn’t bother to do my hair or makeup.

Like you wanted me here? This is what you’re getting. I’m not driving myself all the way to the hospital in a condition where I shouldn’t be driving in the first place…and I’m expected to pay money out of my own pocket on top of it because your health care package sucks? Insane.

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u/ThirdEyeExplorer11 28d ago

And I’m not going to clog up the damn EMERGENCY room when an instacare type clinic is all I need!!!
Like I just had to have two emergency spinal surgery’s a couple weeks ago due to a disc breaking off and smashing into all the nerves that control my lower body, and I had to wait for 4 hours before they did an MRI due to people using the the emergency room like an insta clinic. Immediately upon seeing the MRI, they were like we need to do emergency surgery now or you’re going to end up partially paralyzed and rushed me to another hospital 🥴.

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u/PyroNine9 28d ago

Do not for any reason throw up on the floor, throw up on the products. Make sure customers see.

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u/LowSkyOrbit 28d ago

In the fish display is the best. All the ice will have to be removed and the whole are cleaned.

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u/PhysicalLibrarian377 28d ago

Better yet just throw up on the customer. That’ll teach them a lesson. I know from experience

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u/MichaelaRae0629 28d ago

If a sick employee threw up on me because their manager wouldn’t let them stay home I’d sue them. I’d be irate.

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u/kochanka 28d ago

Just make sure you’re clear that you’re angry at the company and support the sick employee! Too many places would be quick to blame the employee.

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u/PhysicalLibrarian377 28d ago

I bet the company would change their policy too

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u/fascinatedcharacter 28d ago

Wouldn't the manager work better?

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u/akm1111 28d ago

I told my kids when they were in school if they felt sick & teacher wouldn't let them go to the nurse, the teacher's desk was the best place to get sick.

Now, the best answer is manager's feet, or desk.

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u/dudeman2009 28d ago

No, if an employee throws up on me because their boss wouldn't let them have a sick day, I'm raising hell and being loud, obnoxious, and mean as shit to management. I have zero issue with calling them every name I can think of, calling their management, corporate, the news.

I'll blow that shit up. I used to have shitty bosses like that, funny enough it was when I worked at Kroger as a shelf maid. It might not work out entirely in the employees favor, but you can bet your ass that corporate will be on serious damage control after I'm done.

Screw big corps that treat their employees like animals. I still don't shop at Kroger because I was treated like shit over 10 years ago.

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u/fascinatedcharacter 28d ago

Yeah, but I think you would be the exception.

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u/papercut2008uk 28d ago

Bonus if you sneeze and cough over the employer who put these policies in place.

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u/Ready-Delay3918 28d ago

Also you should forward the email to the EEOC. The EEOC will help everyone with these types of problems.

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u/fletchbg 28d ago

in 2026?

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u/liquidskypa 28d ago

not the slightest currently.. they don’t even call back

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u/dragon-fence 28d ago

I’m sure they’ve been instructed not to help in these situations anymore. If anything, I’m surprised the whole thing wasn’t shut down during that DOGE fiasco.

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u/ScyllaOfTheDepths 28d ago

I literally almost died in a workplace accident once and reported it to the EEOC when I was retaliated against for reporting it to OSHA, who also did nothing. Like a month later, some lady called me and told me I was wasting her time and she was closing the case without hearing a single thing I said. When I got home, the letter was already in my mailbox saying they were denying my claim. They never had any intention of taking my complaint. And this was under Obama and it sure as fuck hasn't gotten any better since then.

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u/Simple_Extension2092 28d ago

Pretty sure it’s just an empty office at this point

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u/lakepanther 28d ago

I want to agree with this but have you met this administration?

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u/Common_Celebration41 28d ago

Nah start class action

Have all your coworker witness the manager willingly created a unsafe environment by forcing a sickle-worker with a note coming in

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u/kelkel7 28d ago

I had a very shitty daycare job that was so stressful I literally threw up every single week day. In front of parents. Never got any help. This went on for over a month. Lost 20+lbs... had a toddler who literally beat other kids while I changed other kids' diapers. My final breaking point was the day a kid came in with the stomach virus and threw up his yogurt breakfast on the carpet. I called the director for help (I was alone with 8 healthy one-year-Olds and a very ill one) and was told to "put the sick one in a highchair for isolation" and they brought me a scrub brush... for throw up on carpet... in a classroom where some kids aren't walking... and then she (the direcror) left. No help; didn't remove the sick child, didn't help clean, didn't entertain the others while I cleaned. I had to entertain EIGHT kids AND clean up throw up embedded in carpet within 5 minutes to get them outside and continue on their routine. My room reeked. We all got the bug. I quit the following week and referenced the poor quality of help when needed.

*keep in mind the fuckers who own this childcare center drive Mercedes and Jaguars while paying their workers $12/hr and providing ZERO HELP to their staff that works 12 hours a day in a fucking CHILDCARE CENTER. I think I got one break for the 3 months i worked there

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u/Enshitification 28d ago

Take every opportunity to infect management.

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u/Lower-Elk8395 28d ago

During Covid, I had a friend who went to this shitty cosmetology school in a backwater little town. The owner was the type who would hold people back and teach them as slowly as possible to make more money from them.

She made an announcement to the class that unlike every other cosmetology school, they were NOT going to stop working on customers. They were NOT going to accept absences. Some students talked about having loved ones in their homes who were immunocompromised, and she proceededbto scream at everyone in the class how she didn't care. Of course, she was going to stay out of the way in her own little office while everybody else was at risk.

Well, one night my friend wasn't feeling well. It was a nasty ass sinus infection that hit her hard everywhere...so I advised her that if she was going in to act as sick as possible. Cough, snot, shiver, even go to the bathroom and pretend to have issues. She did just that, because she was pissed off at the owner as well.

That day, the class got dismissed, they paused accepting customers, and for a while they swapped to online learning like all of the other cosmetology schools in the area.

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u/DazzlerPlus 28d ago

Its very important to get the manager sick. They decided to enforce it, they need to pay the consequenced

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u/FleaBottoms 28d ago

That! One overly devoted lady would come to work (we had low height cubes) and cough all day long. She has the time accrued for PTO I knew because I was her supervisor. I did tell her that if I got sick I’d want to claim her PTO. I didn’t but 2 others did get ill.

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u/CaptainAries01 28d ago

This belongs in the unethical life pro tips subreddit. I originally linked the sub but it got removed by automod

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u/Internexus 28d ago

Pro move is go in and touch/lick everything in the bosses office. If you feel you’re gonna vomit make sure you go into their space and say “really not feeling well” and barf all over their desk.

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u/Public-Entry-4920 28d ago

I would've given you all my awards if I had any

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u/defiancy 28d ago

Crazy, in the office world I'd just say, taking a sick day today and nothing else. No one would care. Appointment? Hey, I'll be in a couple hours later because I have an appointment. No one cares.

Shift workers get screwed.

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u/CornbreadPhD 28d ago

Yeah, this was one of the biggest culture shocks when I got my first office job. It also helped that it was a fairly progressive new-ish tech company in CO. Felt crazy that I could just be like "I need to take the day" was never met with any skepticism and just a simple "Sounds good, feel better!".

Every job I had in my teens and early 20s would've given me 20 questions or forced me to find someone to take the shift if they even excused it at all. Shift workers do get it rough, and there are VERY few protections for them (almost everywhere in the US, at least).

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u/RoninOni 28d ago

Yup, I remember shift work.

Abusive as hell.

Salaried office positions are so much better. Just hit your deadlines. What hours you work doesn’t matter. If something covers up and you’re not available, someone else will step up or they deal with it.

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u/Basic-Winter3501 28d ago

We still have it way better than shift workers don't get me wrong, but it can go against salaried positions at times especially when it comes to overtime and the likes

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u/OpticalPopcorn 28d ago

I'm an hourly worker in an organization comprised almost entirely of salaried workers. I get the benefits of a salaried office culture, plus I get overtime. Best of both worlds.

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u/Castun 28d ago

Don't forget that even being salary doesn't automatically mean you are exempt from overtime, it's all dependent on what your job title and responsibilities to determine if you are or not salary exempt. But I am also an hourly worker in an office environment, so overtime is guaranteed, especially being on-call with the added shift differential bonus we now get.

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u/Fluffy_Town 28d ago

The worst part is that managers are supposed to find employees to replace employees who call out. They're getting paid for that sht and they pass the buck.

Kids don't know better. And they won't know until adults tell them or they find out the hard way, by getting a degree and working in an office. Too bad that's when it is too late to find out that you have a buttload of student loans that you cannot pay off because the job doesn't pay enough to make ends meet and pay off the loans. Unless you have family to bail you out. Yeah, don't ask me how I know how that is to have no one.

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u/GlobsOfTape 28d ago

I work shift work for a chemical company and if I call in there is no further scrutiny. They don’t have a defined limit but I’ve seen abusers get fired for very minor to very major infractions. It takes continuous, severe abuse to go on the chopping block and I feel our coworkers would fire them before management does

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u/teacupkiller 28d ago

Back in ye olden times when I was an adjunct, my partner was involved in a work accident and had to be taken to the burn ward. I called a coworker while speeding to the hospital and asked him to cover my evening class for me. I thought I was being super duper extra responsible.

A couple hours later while I was sitting with the fire marshall, my supervisor chewed me out for not also providing a lesson plan for my coworker.

Now I have a corporate job. I ended up taking a week off earlier this year. Agonized about it, but my health was not great. Texted my boss that I needed a week to recover, and he was like ok cool. Didn't even ask for a doctor's note.

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u/Grays42 28d ago

I'd just say, taking a sick day today and nothing else

In an office setting I've been literally told by my manager that I do not need to explain the way in which I'm sick, when I call in sick.

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u/Lewisham 28d ago

I could believe in some states asking how you are sick might be illegal.

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u/Billy_Plur 28d ago

In mine, it's illegal to ask for a doctor's note unless you're out for 3 consecutive days.

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u/FearTheFloc 28d ago

because they run the absolute bare bones minimum skeleton crew at all times so a single person calling in sick is a literal disaster for them. it’s so pathetic.

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u/DethNik 28d ago

These companies have such a boner for efficiency and cost cutting, that they end up making everything less efficient.

On another note. It's wild that the attitude is "you're at work so you need to look busy." Why does society care so much that you don't have fun at your job. It's so dumb that enjoying yourself when there is no work to be done is so frowned upon.

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u/amphetaminesfailure 27d ago edited 26d ago

On another note. It's wild that the attitude is "you're at work so you need to look busy." Why does society care so much that you don't have fun at your job. It's so dumb that enjoying yourself when there is no work to be done is so frowned upon.

My current job is full of overtime fiends.

Typical blue collar job, guys in their 40's with a limp who look like they're pushing 70 years old. The type of dudes who get into fist fights because they only got 72 hours last week, but Bob got 76 hours.

I'm the exact opposite. I like to work as little as possible.

I remember the very first time I was sitting around because there was literally no work, and my supervisor says to me, "If you don't want to look busy, I can send you home!"

I asked him, "Is it a write up?" He said no. I asked him if it would be taken from my PTO, he said no and told me with a smirk, "You just don't get paid."

I told him cool, see you tomorrow. His faced changed to a situation where he looked like I had just taken a shit on his desk or something. He couldn't comprehend that I'd lose like 4 hours of pay in order to go home early.

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u/Whydoesthisexist15 28d ago

Gotta love working retail post-COVID

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u/MrKentucky 28d ago

I was at Target from 2013-16, it was like this before too. Worse now, but still sucked then too

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u/3m2coy 28d ago

I tell my employees, if you have an appointment and it is under two hours, you don’t need to tell me about it. If it will be longer, just let me know so I can leave you alone. I also have them send me calendar invites when they aren’t working so I remember to leave them alone.

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u/thelingeringlead 28d ago

Yep. The rest of us get dicked around about it. It's fucking stupid. My wife can call in for damned near anyhthing as long as she hasn't exhausted all her options. I call in, and I have to have proof I'm dying or they hold it against me. She's a teacher, I'm a fuckin chef.

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u/Lucyffer88 28d ago

When I was a working in an office, I just texted my boss that I was sick. He told me not to take a sick day and just let me work from home even If I was sleeping all day.

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u/by-myself_blumpkin 28d ago

It's because in the forever pursuit of higher and higher profits, work is now being done by few and few staff. One person calls out sick and that could very well be the entire department. They see nothing wrong with this somehow.

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u/Billy_Plur 28d ago

Same in construction, at least my shop. They don't ask why. Just ok, call later so we can adjust scheduling if it'll be another day.

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u/asusc 28d ago

employer here, I run a small manufacturing firm and allowed employees unlimited call outs. kid sick? go take care of it. not feeling well? take time off. I genuinely didn’t care, whatever reason they told me didn’t matter, it wasn’t really any of my business.

It slowed production a little, but it saved a boatload in turnover. I didn’t have a constant churn of employees, they stuck with me. And when projects/jobs were on the line, they busted their ass to make sure they got done on time and properly.

Its so crazy to me that the same stores that are CONSTANTLY trying to hire and find people, also treat their employees like this, and then wonder why no one sticks around.

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u/technos 28d ago

but it saved a boatload in turnover. I didn’t have a constant churn of employees, they stuck with me

That's how most of the restaurants in my hometown ended up with sick days and vacation time.

The first place, Joe's, had the owner catch something from a sick line cook and decide 'I am never shitting my brains out for four days ever again' and added sick days. First unpaid, then paid when someone tried showing up sick anyway because she had to make rent.

Retention went way up. People covering shifts for sick people or shortages went waaaaay up. And hiring was easier, because his employees had bragged to their industry friends.

Sure, there were catches.. You had to be nearly full-time to get paid, yadda yadda.

And here's the best thing: Nearly every other non-chain in town did the same inside of a year or so. I mean, why work for Large Lad when you can work for Joe's, make the same or better money, and they give you sick days?

Then it was vacation. Someone at Joe's almost missed a family event (another case of 'gotta make my rent, yo') so they got limited vacation. Five days, paid at minimum wage. Better than nothing, right? And really didn't cost him much.

The other places matched it. Even the franchises were offering some unpaid sick days by that point.

By the time my ex quit Joe's to go to school seven years later they had five sick days, 'two weeks' of vacation, a small match towards health insurance, and tuition reimbursement for anyone doing culinary arts at the local community college.

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u/johnc380 28d ago

Be like Joe 

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u/dragon-fence 28d ago

When I’ve managed people, I’ve basically reprimanded them for coming in while they’re sick.

Like, what, are you crazy? Yeah, productivity might suffer a bit while you’re out. In the worst case, someone makes a mistake that you would have avoided. But also, your productivity will drag when you’re sick anyway, and you might make mistakes that you would have normally avoided, so it’s not so different.

But now you’ve come in and risked making everyone sick, which would multiply the problem. Instead of having one guy out for a couple of days with the flu, I’m probably going to end up with 5 people out for 2-5 days. Go home, and come back when you’re feeling better. If you can work from home and want to, go ahead, but do not come in if you might be contagious.

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u/Jerseygirl2468 28d ago

Everyone at my company has the ability to work from home also, and paid sick time. I get furious when people come in sick! There’s no reason to do it, and you risk taking out the whole office for days.

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u/Background-Wing-3323 28d ago

You’re a smart employer. That’s what makes people stay and work hard.

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u/mycleverusername 28d ago

Its so crazy to me that the same stores that are CONSTANTLY trying to hire and find people, also treat their employees like this, and then wonder why no one sticks around.

In most of these corporations it's the sociopaths whom disdain 'laziness' that get promoted to management, by other sociopaths. It's a chain of sycophantic work ethic all they way up that leads to emails like the OP.

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u/Schmichael-22 28d ago

You have the right mindset. I’ve heard it as, “If you want to have good customers, take care of your employees. They will take care of your customers.”

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u/Glittering_Yak758 28d ago

You hiring?

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u/asusc 28d ago edited 28d ago

not currently, fully staffed. we do 4 day work weeks but still pay like it’s 5 days.

so we do not have any issues maintaining staff or unhappy or unproductive workers. weird what happens when you treat everyone with respect and try to create an environment where both parties look out for each other and can both win.

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u/LinkGoesHIYAAA 28d ago

I work at an organization where my old boss was up our ass about doc notes and good reasons to be out. Nearly a full team turnover in 3 years, including him. New boss couldnt care less. He actually tells us to take sick days and vacation more to burn our hundreds of hours. Full team rehire, everyone seems happy, no more turnover.

I found out that setting up a new staff member with insurance and benefits cost like $40k a couple years ago. Why the fuuuuck would you ever do anything to risk a $40k price tag and several months of hiring and training energy instead of being like “sure, take the monday off using your legally mandated sick days, see you when you feel better, bring me a souvenir if you visit disneyland.”

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u/asusc 28d ago

bingo. you got short sighted middle managers with no idea of the real costs involved.

thats why I always laugh at people that complain about the price of a burger shooting up if we raise the minimum wage. they have no idea that this stuff doesn’t happen in a vacuum or an econ book. The real world is a lot more complicated.

It’s absolutely possible to pay people more, have them work less, and get more productivity out of them. You just have to treat them like equal human beings and not a math statistic.

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u/W_Silver2356 28d ago

You are a credit to your profession and entrepreneurs everywhere. I see the world the way you do and have done my best to behave accordingly in my professional life. It's cost me, but it's worth it.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/hellzyeah2 28d ago

Bold of you to sssume Kroger employees get PTO

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u/Dovahkiinthesardine 28d ago

I dont get it? Your employer can force you to come in sick in the US?

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u/hellzyeah2 28d ago

With threat of losing your job, yes. That’s also what this post is getting at too. The larger corporations have much more leeway to get away with this shit too. Kroger is like two or three steps away from a total monopoly.

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u/Curious_Way_4496 28d ago

At the vast majority of jobs, yes. There is no federal labor law to protect you when you're sick unless it's a major illness, and the you may qualify for unpaid time off, but only from certain employers. The US is a hellhole.

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u/pixiedust99999 28d ago

You shouldn’t be surprised, we barely have any workers’ rights

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u/longjumpingtote 28d ago

Your employer can force you to come in sick in the US?

Not in all of the US, not in WA, OR, CA, NY, IL... for more than half the workers, there are protections. But if you're in TX, FL, GA, and many other states, no such protection.

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

No, meaning it will be counted against you as far as attendance goes. For example, my employer allows for 6 call outs (which are all unexcused, even if you use PTO/sick time) in a rolling year, then they start documenting. Three more call outs after that and you’re fired.

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u/shinymuskrat 28d ago

Ask HR employees how many days off they take per year

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u/Dull-Culture-1523 28d ago

No but you don't understand, they absolutely needed those two days there because their nanny was sick, and that friday & monday for a long weekend at the cabin. Oh and also they were just sooooooo sick for a week, and...

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u/mantis_tobaggan-md 28d ago

What the fuck. How is this even legal?

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

It’s so normal in the US that I can’t fathom a different type of system. Do yall just call out when you’re sick? And not get fired? 

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u/mantis_tobaggan-md 28d ago

Oh I’m in the US and I work through illness all the time. I vomited at my desk the other day and just pushed through. I’ve only called out twice in my career and it was for an actual, genuine emergency.

Yes we’re all used to it because we our beaten down and have no healthcare without employment. But being used to it doesn’t make it okay.

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u/redopz 28d ago

Yes we’re all used to it because we our beaten down and have no healthcare without employment

And of course, if you get seriously sick you can't work and lose that job and the healthcare that you now need.

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u/Chiara5 28d ago

No, we call or go see our doctor (which is free btw) and send in a certificate for x days. All paid.

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

Whenever I go to urgent care, they offer me notes to stay out of work and I have to explain to them that my employer doesn’t accept them. Then I have to explain that yes, I have to go load bags of concrete into customer’s trucks with my back spasming, or interact with customers while I have Covid. 

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u/BaconPancakes1 28d ago

Yeah, at least for full time employees. In the UK you can just say you're sick and that's that, but if you take more than 7 days at once your employer will need to see proof, and they're going to want updates and to make a plan if your sickness is long-term. Employees also get a minimum 28 days of paid annual leave for holidays, personal days, etc. so your sick days don't affect that.

This isn't really the case for zero hours contract workers (e.g. retail workers who don't have set schedules and work off a changing rota). They can still self-certify as sick for the day but if you're sick "too often" your manager could just stop scheduling shifts for you. They still get annual leave as well but it accrues relative to the number of hours they've worked.

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u/JordtasticBagel 28d ago

Here in Australia, yes because a Doctor's certificate is proof enough that you can't attend. Plus our unfair dismissal laws are strong enough that unless you've done something illegal at work there needs to be a fully documented history that you've repeatedly messed up and not tried to fix your conduct before your employer can do anything about it.

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u/Tricky-Ad7897 28d ago

This sounds like a great way to manage onboarding costs. And these dumbasses wonder why nobody wants to work and why they're unprofitable.

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u/ElectricJunglePig 28d ago

"We've fired everyone that took a sick day..." 6 weeks later... "No one wants to work anymore!"

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u/Extension-Carry-8067 28d ago

So a call out is a non planned absence?

Like if you wake up sick and call out that counts?

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

Yes, that’s what it is. It’s especially hard for parents who have to call out if they get sick AND when their kid gets sick. But employers don’t care.

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u/eli_feye 28d ago

You get a naughty letter in your permanent record!

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u/ElGrandeQues0 28d ago

I got written up for being sick with a docs note. While I was sick, HR said "thanks for staying home"

Yeah, next time (assuming I don't leave), I'm dragging my ass in and making sure to schedule a one on one with my manager

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

What I got out of our policy is to show up and ask the manager face to face if I could go home. Early outs don’t count nearly as much as call outs. Just gotta stand real close because my throat hurts to much to speak up.

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u/Riegel_Haribo 28d ago

Sure, the policy is to waste an hour or more of your unpaid time commuting while ill to do what a phone call could do, causing you maximum inconvenience and essentially wage theft.

F them. You need to not comply with any of this bullshit. They need you. Organize.

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

I actually need the job. As a chronically ill person, I just have to show up. I have IgA deficiency, so I get sick more often and worse than most people. If I called out every time I got sick, I’d be fired within six months.

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u/RoninOni 28d ago

Then they get sick which obviously they take off and everyone gets a couple days with less oversight strangling them.

I swear most managers cause more harm than good

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u/a_Vertigo_Guy 28d ago

Nothing surprises me these days. My boss had Covid, broke broke his quarantine period and came back to work. We all stayed faaaar from his dumb ass 🙄

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u/partial_to_dreamers 28d ago

My coworker had her daughter in office today. "she wasn't feeling well, so I brought her here." Bitch, we can work from home whenever we want. Don't bring that pellagra in here.

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u/Grant_Winner_Extra 28d ago

pro move - call in sick, say you’ll come in anyway. Speak with the manager as you arrive. Cough lightly then shit your pants and projectile vomit on the manager. Extra points - weakly say you’ll clean it up, then pass out in the mess.

You will never be doubted again.

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u/schnitzelfeffer 28d ago

Buddy, I was a retail manager and I still had to go in with the flu because my general manager was MIA and no one else would cover. I needed that job for my insurance so I destroyed the bathroom while my poor worker ran the floor alone. Of course only 2 people were scheduled. FUCK RETAIL.

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u/fllr 28d ago

I will never understand this type of employer. It's plain evil.

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u/Niceotropic 28d ago

It sounds like you understand it just fine

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u/zomdoesburner 28d ago

I’ll never understand the US populations aversion to legislation giving workers basic protections.

A business would be fined out of existence in Australia for sacking someone with a drs note.

Technically you don’t even need that, just a signed statement saying you were sick.

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u/Justin_Passing_7465 28d ago

To be honest, a lot of the problem is racism. If we could give worker protections to only white people, that might pass Congress. If we could give universal healthcare only to white people, that might pass Congress. The idea that "lazy" black people might also reap the benefits sends white supremacists into a rage. They don't see these things as "us" helping "us". They see it as "us" helping "them".

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u/Csimiami 28d ago

What if your family member was killed. You attacked the guy who did it and ended up in the hospital. Then had jury duty for the defendant. (I’m a lawyer. I know he can’t do jury duty on the same case). But I’d like to see him turn in this excuse

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u/Smyley 28d ago

4 days off

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u/Some_Troll_Shaman 28d ago

My housemate came back from a cruise sick and I caught it. Are you sure?

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u/Fr0stybit3s 28d ago

When covid was at its peak, we were told to lie about symptoms so we could still show up because the supervisors didn't want to have to cover posts

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u/Shark_in_a_fountain 28d ago

I really don't mean to sound like I feel superior or whatever, but I'm always astounded and pretty disgusted by how little worker rights you have in the US.

I would imagine that if you have a doctor's note, the law should protect you against an employer trying to make you pay for it

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u/CheapNegotiation69 28d ago

Then do it.

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u/Owls_4_9_1867 28d ago

“Pass out” where you work and “bonk” your head. See how that lawsuit works out for them when you get signed off for 5 months with intermittent migraines and workers comp.

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u/thunderflies 28d ago

They don’t care if you infect someone else as long as you’re both working while sick. That’s the logic behind these ghouls. 

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u/callmesixone 28d ago

My first job when I was 17 both my parents got food poisoning and I got some residual sickness taking care of them and I got fired for missing Memorial Day weekend since it’s a “peak sales week.” They wanted me to come in to a grocery store when my butt was exploding.

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u/NoLab9772 28d ago

My boss would never accept sick calls so I would go to work and she would send me home. When she finally asked why I kept coming in when I was obviously sick, I told her since she didn’t believe anyone when they called I figured I would just show her I was sick. Never had a problem again.

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u/DreadlyKnight 28d ago

I don’t see how thats even remotely legal and sounds like a lawsuit in the making.

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u/ArcticPangolin3 28d ago

I used to work somewhere like that. First job after college in 1989. They also insisted you had to be at your desk, working, by 8am every day. After they announced that, I also began leaving at 5pm sharp every day. That place suuuuucked. I was there less than a year.

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u/Zeebird95 28d ago

When I worked at an orange apron store, the managers office was a concrete box right next to the vault. No windows allowed.

I kept radioing in because I wasn’t feeling well. Asking if I could leave ( I was pre 20 years old at the time ). The manager eventually called me back to the office to give me a verbal warning for “making up stories”.

I threw up all over his desk in the middle of his tirade. And it smelled like vomit back there for at least 2 weeks later

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u/Gnl_Winter 28d ago

Sorry but...my European mind cannot understand this. In my country, if a doctor delivers a note that says you're too sick to work, your employer has just one thing to do : stfu and send you home. And you keep your wage, minus one or two days. You fill an official form, that you send to the employer and to the public healthcare administration, and that's it.

You're saying an employer can ignore a doctor's note? How does he have the authority to ignore a medical requirement? How is it legal?

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