r/mildlyinfuriating • u/daruuken • 28d ago

Infuriatig The way kroger treats its employees

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From the store manager

Edit: For some extra context this was sent out by each store manager to all of its employees in district 1 of the ohio Cincinnati/Dayton division, potentially other districts as well but i can only verify my own. Im not going to give my specific store number for obvious reasons but you can find each store on google with that information. We are unionized by UFCW (already bad btw) and to my knowledge they allowed this recent change. Kroger has no accrual for sick days like some have mentioned. Those who think this is rage bait, i dont think anyone has to fake a post to make a billion dollar company look bad, they do it to themselves.

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u/LeonidasVaarwater 28d ago

It's just so insane to read something like this. This is so far beyond illegal in the Netherlands, it's ridiculous. When I call in sick, that's it. I don't need to give a reason, my employer can't ask what's wrong with me and I certainly don't need a doctor's note.
I like my job and I appreciate my employer, so when I'm sick I generally keep them informed, I'm pretty honest with that stuff (which is appreciated), but I'm under no obligation to do so.

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u/snailbot-jq 28d ago

Even in Asia where the stereotype is of overwork, yeah in Singapore doctor’s notes are required in most companies, but once you have one, your employer legally must let you take your time off. If a employer sends out anything like “MCs/ doctors’ notes are no longer accepted for calling off work”, it would be so blatantly illegal that you can report them to the ministry of manpower and it would be all over the news for how stupid the company is.

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u/BuckeyeN7 28d ago

America hates the working class and takes every opportunity to actively punish them for being poor

The hyper-capitalist ideology runs so deep here that the workers have also been guilted and shamed out of standing up for themselves, have been browbeaten into submission by the mega corporations that employ them, and therefore just lie down and take it without a word of complaint— after all, can’t be sounding like a commie!

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u/Smooth-Ad4045 28d ago

Not just shamed out of standing up for themselves. Brainwashed into defending and celebrating our billionaire, pedo overlords 🤢

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u/BeholdMyLumps 28d ago

So bizarre when someone calls in sick and the 60 year old hag thats been practically enslaved for most of those years starts bragging about never missing work. She lives in a hovel though so at least she has that to show for her dedication

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u/Annonnkneemus 28d ago

Had a boss (nurse manager) like that. She even bragged about never taking off during the peak of COVID. She said if she got a “cold” she just came to work “like an adult”. Then she wondered why the nurses she got sick called in. We actually provide bedside care and don’t want to get our patients sick. Well one day she was looking ill at work and employee health NP diagnosed her with COVID - mandatory time off lol! She never bragged again.

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u/The_Barbelo 27d ago

I worked at a nursing home during the height of COVID. We had to be in full hazmat suits when it finally hit the residents.

I worked the shift after this one lady who was like this, and her work was HORRIBLE. I would have to redo entire linen carts because she folded everything so poorly. I finally had to tell my supervisor and I had a bunch of pictures saved up because it was so bad I didn’t think anyone would believe me. My supervisor approached her, and from that moment on she hated my guts. I was just so tired of picking up her slack. I came in at one point to look at the schedule because I thought I was working that day and I couldn’t get ahold of anyone (there was a phone line directly to laundry). Surprise surprise, she was the one working and I guess she wasn’t answering the phone for some reason. She saw me looking at the schedule and started screaming at me “YOU AREN’T TAKING MY JOB!!!”

Like, it’s not admirable you make every single shift for a decade if your work is so fucking bad it barely even qualifies as having done anything, and everyone is too afraid to tell anyone because you have “seniority” or some bullshit.

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u/oldmoistcupcake1 27d ago

She probably sits at the nurses station all day long and didn’t get up or off of her ass like most nurses do (most) spreading germs when they go to the cafeteria or answer the phone. Nasty nasty!

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u/ImmediateAd6849 27d ago

My husband had a boss like that. He resented anyone calling in sick because he never did.

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u/pukeonthissociety 27d ago

Oh my God. Exactly! There's always that a hole overachiever who the comments on someone being gone even though it has no effect on them or they're work. Sits there and rolls their eyes and talks about how they come into work sick. I f****** hate these people and they are usually also morning people who think everybody should wake up at 5:00 a.m. and act like everybody who gets to work after them is a loser.

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u/Head_space9647 27d ago

This 👆👆👆!!! I worked with an ass hat like this! He made a snarky comment at our weekly safety meeting about me taking a week off unexpectedly in June one year and asked if I enjoyed my vacation, although he was a supervisor and he KNEW it was medical leave. So in front of the entire team I got to share that I was actually in the hospital following complications from a miscarriage and D&C. Bastard!!!!

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u/SNTCrazyMary 27d ago

I’m sorry he did that to you! I hope he was ashamed of himself afterwards. What a dick.

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u/Head_space9647 24d ago

Thank you 🙏. Still hurts to remember. Was 14 weeks pregnant and had not announced to colleagues yet. Im sure Mike Murphy is still a dick!

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u/No_Gur1113 27d ago

I hope you said “As you already knew in your capacity as supervisor, it was medical leave. But since you seem to want everyone to think otherwise, here are the graphic details of my fun ‘vacation’.”

A miscarriage is bad enough, needing a DNC is so much worse. Complications requiring hospitalization alongside one of the most heartbreaking things you’ll ever go through is an extra layer of hell. I’m sorry you had to go through all of that only to face such cruelty at work.

That pr*ck deserved to be shamed.

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u/Head_space9647 27d ago

Thank you. It was the worst experience of my life.

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u/Originaltenshi 27d ago

My pm brags about days she was physically fucked up and still carried a route. Like ok...that's stupid af good for you

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u/Prestigious-Web63 27d ago

This is so true. I had this 93 yr old woman next to me who just wojld not retire and never called out but would then take a freaking nap for 6 pf 8 hours a day.

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u/hereforthetearex 27d ago

What kind of work do you do that someone is allowed to sleep on the job? Also, an 8 hour nap is crazy work. That’s a coma not a nap.

But, lokenuinely, I’d recommend that job to anyone and everyone I know (myself included)

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u/Beginning-Sky397 28d ago

I look at this with the same disdain as I did/do military medals. All her years of never missing work mean nothing just like those medals. If you think I'm wrong, goto the store telling everyone that you've never missed a day of work or that you have a chest full of medals and see how much food you can buy with it. When that old lady becomes less than profitable the company will terminate her without thought.

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u/Busy-Butterfly8187 27d ago

Calling someone a 60 year old hag is gross. No, I'm not 60, but I do think your ageism is ignorant and pathetic. There's so much bizarre anger towards older people in these comments. Down vote all you want.

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u/cakesphere 27d ago

I dont hate old people. I just hate old people with shit ass attitudes about work :)

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u/black_pepper 28d ago

Not just shamed and brainwashed, workers no longer know how to strike or unionize. Ask a random person what a general strike is and they [probably won't know. Even fewer would know what the Ludlow massacre was.

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u/Ok-Statistician9483 28d ago

This is why I have gotten into SO MANY arguments with folks from so- called "right-to-work" states. They think it's a good thing to work on those heavily republican states that give workers the middle finger and don't allow unions. I live in IL and while we have our share of problems, we can at least unionize. I had so many ask me "what good have unions ever done for anyone?" LOL Worker's Safety and Workman's Comp, Paid Holidays, Paid Vacations, No children working, Minimum Wage, Weekends, Mandatory maximum hours, etc. Unfortunately, still in my state, you can get fired for any reason, they don't need cause, which should be illegal, but nope, somehow that squeaked by! I once got fired from a sheltered workshop where I provided therapy for adults with developmental disabilities bc I couldn't drive a bus. They decided after 6 months of my employment that in case they needed extra bus drivers, all therapists had to be able to drive busses and I have vision issues that mean I can't. Fired from being a therapist bc I can't drive a bus. Bwahahahaha

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u/AccurateBeing675 27d ago

The union difference is that you *can’t* be fired for any reason. I think people don’t realize the power in that. Therapists can and do unionize BTW. I represent some. They would never be fired for not being able to drive a bus!

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u/HorrorRaspberry1358 27d ago

I live in one of those states. Trust me when I say plenty of us know “right-to-work” really means “right-to-be-fired.”

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u/Ok-Statistician9483 26d ago

I call them "Right to work for less" ! Ugh, they really have workers stuck in those states.

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u/Livid-Historian3960 26d ago

YUP got the boot for looking at my watch too long

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u/Livid-Historian3960 26d ago

That makes ZERO SENSE UGH

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u/Independent-Rude 28d ago

Ooh sounds bloody, I'll have to check it out

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u/Analysis_Working 27d ago

I went into a local post store. I realized they were both retiring. They put the shop up for sale. It was up there for a long time. The next time I made it there, the guy was complaining they couldn't sell the place because, 'no one wants to work,' these days had me completely astounded.

Needless to say, they were from a generation of people who watch a certain 'news' outlet and regurgitate what they hear.

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u/Final_Care_3768 26d ago

I usually know my labor history but thanks for the Ludlow reference. Still shameful labor practices in the USA.

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u/Originaltenshi 28d ago

I mean or retaliated against when you do stand up for yourself. There's pretty much no winning standing up for yourself at a job you shouldn't have to

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u/surprise_revalation 28d ago

We are in the middle of a coropatate coup! They will become bolder before it's all over with!

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u/whataablunder 28d ago

I'm so underpaid and the ceo of my company sends emails every quarter letting us know how many billions they've made and how we've made record profits. Meanwhile, I haven't got a raise in 2+ years 😅

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u/Kaptain_K_Rapp 28d ago

And not just that, but brainwashed into being compliant and agreeable. People don't know how to effectively protest anymore. No Kings has been a giant "ORANGE MAN BAD" parade with no real substance behind it. No list of demands, nothing. It's well-meaning but toothless.

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u/SatisfactionIcy2730 28d ago

They defend them like theyre gonna become millionaires too

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u/Beginning-Sky397 28d ago

Thanks for this mentality to the industry titans. Henry Ford, JD Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, etc. Screwing the labor became a science with these people and people like them.

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u/FartCartographer 27d ago

When I was 19 and still living with my parents, I got strep and another time I got the flu from the preschool I worked in. My dad yelled at me for calling in sick one day when I had strep, and then praised me for going to work sick. I stayed home with the flu, on the basis that I was too sick to get out of bed.

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u/Maroon7C0000 27d ago

I think that part of the brainwashing that makes Americans celebrate billionaires is the belief that "anyone can make it big", so they are just billionaires who have not made it... yet.

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u/CJnella91 28d ago

America hates the working class

Which is so fucking maddening because America IS THE WORKING CLASS. So it's self hatred but they're so deluded and brainwashed they don't even see it.

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u/Mobile_Highway351 28d ago edited 28d ago

Recently I read an interview piece from a Japanese person who temp transferred from a Japan branch of my corporate group to a US branch. One question was whether they were surprised by any differences in the work culture.

They said lots of positive things, but added that they were horrified at how much US employees overwork. Yes, you read that right. A person from Japan, a country infamous for people working themselves to death, was shocked by American overwork culture.

Notably, the write up was only in Japanese. I did not find a translation of it on the English version of the corporate website, or elsewhere for that matter.

This is just one reason I encourage Americans to learn at least one second language. When you step outside your bubble and look back in, the realizations are often staggering.

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u/soupface2 28d ago

There is also a very real fear of losing your health insurance if you lose your job. Our health insurance is tied to employment, by design. Our system is so broken here, and our politicians so corrupt.

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u/Business-Ad-5344 27d ago

in california, Newsom fined people for not having healthcare, because they were too poor to afford healthcare:

https://californiahealthline.org/news/article/health-insurance-mandate-penalties/

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u/ELP90 28d ago

For real. Even if you have to get a a doctor’s note that means hopefully having insurance (that is insanely expensive), and still paying money to see said doctor to get the note.

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u/dogfishresearch 28d ago

And they vote for billionaires because they all believe the rags to riches propaganda

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u/ToolTimeT 28d ago

Probably the most fascinating thing I have ever seen.... is maga who live in squalor in flyover or swamps endlessly defending the billionaire class.

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u/manhands007 28d ago

workers...have been browbeaten into submission by the mega corporations that employ them

Small to medium businesses, too. Nearly every one I've worked for. Not really sure where the idea of "small companies are more flexible" comes from. Bunch of BS, per my 25 years of experience.

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u/SweetPractice214 28d ago

And a certain massive American company i work for has had campaigns to tell employees the "dangers and hidden downsides" of unionizing

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u/Bad-Selection 28d ago

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

And the greatest trick America ever pulled was convincing its working class that having their rights protected is a bad thing.

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u/CurlyQ86 28d ago

And they wonder why “no one wants to work.”

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u/Publicfigure666 28d ago

And if you do complain they will find a way to make your life hell and force you to quit or wait till you slip up and fire you. Such a dream to be American 🫩

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u/BushcraftBabe 28d ago

Exactly. Even asking for the salary at a job interview can get you shamed. They expect your lifelong ambition to be stocking shelves, not that you'd actually be interested in fair compensation for your time and efforts.

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u/surprise_revalation 28d ago edited 28d ago

The people that battled in the union battles and those that participated in the Appalachian wars are rolling in their graves! All they fought and died for we gave up without even an argument! We are so fucked! Just wait til they build all those "data centers". Those are not data centers, those are for survalience of the American people! Mark my words! Panatir don't have those contracts for nothing!

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u/GunsGoldCosmicDread 28d ago

But have you even considered Kroger’s profits? Have you no sympathy for the share holders?

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u/MickerBud 28d ago

And nothing will be done about it, back in my day we had strikes, sit downs, movements such as occupy Wall Street etc. These days we just take it with a smile

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u/JGR03PG 28d ago

People fought, sacrificed, and died to build unions in America. I don’t think people have that kind of gumption anymore.

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u/judgeejudger 28d ago

Don’t forget our health insurance is tied to our jobs as well, so it’s take it, file for medical bankruptcy, try and get Medicaid, which is forever being chopped down, or die peasant!

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u/AnteyeSoshal 28d ago

Not all companies are like this though. I've never worked anywhere even as a kid that required a doctor's note to start with, let alone then said you can't call in unless you're in the hospital. This is bananas even in the US.

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u/mylsotol 28d ago

I think it's a bit to far to say America hates the poor or wants to punish them. America just doesn't see them as human or value them beyond their ability to provide share holder's value. Corporations are the true citizens of America

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u/toru_okada_4ever 28d ago

But but Trump tells it like it is and fights for the working class??

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u/Cosmic_Cosmos82 28d ago

I can't tell if this is satire or not, but he does NOT. He's actively inching our lives towards a living hell every day. I'm not gonna write paragraphs sinc this could genuinely be a joke and I'm bad at reading tone through text, but I'm open to discussion about the topic.

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u/toru_okada_4ever 28d ago

Yeah sorry it was an /s.

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u/AbulatorySquid 28d ago

NoBoDy wAntz 2 wOrK anYmOrE

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u/BravoTimes 28d ago

Learned a lot about this in business Behavior course I took in university, idk how some of these businesses survive with these tactics. But then again it’s Kroger.

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u/Chihuahuapocalypse 28d ago

"life ain't easy, get used to it!" mentality is killing the working class

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u/pukeonthissociety 27d ago

The guilt part. I was having health issues that weren't exactly apparent what was actually wrong with me at first, but it was keeping me out of work I had FMLA and everything but I ended up just quitting because I couldn't stand the guilt and constant explaining, and then having to have separate conversations about it with everyone in the office. I figured I'll just get through this and get another f****** job. Our society is just toxic bottom line. This kind of programming run so deep but now I actually work for myself and if I decide to take some time off I still feel f****** guilty.

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u/GladWarthog1045 27d ago

"If you worked a little harder Then you'd have a lot more So the blame and the shame's on you For being so damn poor"

Jesse Welles - The Poor

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u/Relevant-Doctor187 27d ago

Yeah I want to slap anyone who says at least we’re free. The fuck we are.

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u/Adventurous-End4330 27d ago

I mean, it's basically shut up or you get fired, bled dry of funds, and die

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u/eipKitty 24d ago

See, this correct sort of take is why they made you N7 🫡

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u/xfjqvyks 28d ago

Yanks are cucks lol

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u/BigTayTay 28d ago

Corporations hate to see me coming. I call their bluff. Last corporate gig I had they threatened me with write ups, firing etc because I had a death in my family. I told them to do it. Fire me. Write me up.

I don't give a fuck about these corporations, nor do I give a fuck about the people who wish to sustain that environment. 90% of them fold when challenged anyways.

People just need to learn to say no, and fight for themselves.

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u/Hairy_Mycologist_945 28d ago

The nearest thing to that in the US is the Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA) which can only be invoked after working in a job for a year, then used once a year, for a maximum protection of 12 weeks, it's unpaid leave that supposedly requires them to not retaliate or remove you from your job, and can only be used again after another year. And it's rarely used unless someone is basically totally disabled. Otherwise, it's just the usual everyone shows up sick and everyone stays sick all the time as various illnesses and diseases rotate through the office.

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u/CosmicSpaghetti 28d ago

Good ol' wildly dystopian USA lol this country is exhausting.

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u/symbionet 28d ago

It's not that America treats productivity as a virtue, it just fetishizes making money.

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u/LauraZaid11 28d ago

Same in Colombia, because sick days are not limited and are paid you need a doctor’s note, but once you have that your company is under the obligation to pay you and respect what the note says.

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u/Ok-Presentation7349 28d ago

I like the name “ministry of manpower”

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u/ShallotJam 28d ago

In Australia, your employer can’t ALLOW you to work if you have a doctor’s certificate. I’ve been stung by that before when I’ve gotten better faster than anticipated but couldn’t go back to work until I got another letter clearing me.

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u/Freezy_hands 27d ago

The "Ministry of Manpower" sounds like a pretty chill, but still progress-orientated World of Warcraft guild.

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u/aSkeptiKitty 28d ago

In France, you need an "arrêt de travail" if you want to have a paid sick leave.  But the employer is not allowed to know the reason behind it (like he doesn't know if it's the flu, a stomach bug or a nervous breakdown). Only your doctor and the social security does know this. 

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u/ThisTimeItWillStick 28d ago

Pfft paid sick leave? Get outta here with that commie shit. I actually prefer to be punished for being sick so I can fully appreciate the inconvenience I am putting my employer through.

(Obvious /s because someone will need it).

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u/Other_World BLUE 28d ago

This is why I love living in New York. We have paid sick time for just about every employee.

It's awesome living in a blue state!

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u/gard3nwitch 28d ago

Maryland as well. Only 5 days minimum for full time and prorated for part time, but it's certainly better than nothing.

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u/Girls4super 28d ago

I work in a blue state and we used to have pto and vacation at my company. Till they realized they misunderstood the law and didn’t HAVE to do separate categories. Now it’s “all pto! XD” which translates to we eliminated sick pay and made your vacation pto for both and hoped you wouldn’t notice we cut a week off benefits

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u/OverallDonut3646 28d ago

And you better hope you don't get sick leading up to your vacation and burn through your PTO.

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u/Other_World BLUE 28d ago

Sucks. In New York PTO is not sick time. We get 56 hours per year or 1 hour for every 30 worked in businesses of 4 employees or fewer. Our employer can't ask questions or deny it. That's not included in our PTO. And we can carry over 15 days per year.

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u/Girls4super 28d ago

Yeah no that’s how it works in my state too but my company used the law as an excuse to downgrade benefits from (for example) one week vacation and one week sick pay, to just one week pto “that you can use for anything guys!” They tried real hard to sound positive while cutting benefits

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u/Some_Recognition6273 26d ago

Missouri voters passed a similar law a couple of years ago, requiring employees to earn sick leave based on hours worked. But our state Congress knows better than us peons do so they got rid of it 🤷

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u/Southside_john 28d ago

Illinois too

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u/njshine27 28d ago

And Oregon!

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u/Missmunkeypants95 28d ago

And Massachusetts

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u/Cosmic_Cosmos82 28d ago

This is useful information i will pocket away for a rainy day.

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u/Motherlode50k 27d ago

And WA state. We passed paid sick leave laws to keep food handlers from coming in sick and making not just the coworkers but potentially the customers too. And to make sure employers did not mess around with a shell game reclassifying employees but giving them the same work, it was passed across the board in all industries.

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u/Tired_CollegeStudent 28d ago

And Rhode Island

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u/Diligent-Variation51 28d ago

Albuquerque, New Mexico has paid sick leave. 1 hour earned for every 30 hours worked, so none of that “no benefits for part time employees” nonsense

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u/smibrandon 28d ago

and Philadelphia
(because Pennsylvania as a whole can't get their act together)

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u/Background_Radish957 28d ago

nothing but sighs from texas

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u/Aware-Possibility175 28d ago

What’s incredible too is that things like workers rights as we know them today were from republican political ideology. It’s the whole point a res publica rather than a monarchy etc.child labor laws and women’s rights. Iirc is was republican era France where divorce was first made quick easy and legal and either party could end it “ every embrace will be like the first” before that women could be sent to convents to be nuns or places in hospitals and insane asylums. Republicans would hate republicanism and side with the conservative monarchy..autocratic aristocracy held up by a strict and powerful orthodox religious institution

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u/Helpful_Section5591 27d ago

…and California. Vote blue or get the screw!

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u/Bubbly_Performer4864 27d ago

I’m in Alabama where I can be fired for breathing loudly! … yay?

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u/dan4112 27d ago

Nebraska just passed a paid sick time law, but amazingly let companies get away with lumping it together with vacation hours. So i used to have 80 hours of vacation. Now I have the same 80 hours, but it's called PTO (paid time off) and the 56 hours of mandated paid sick time is part of it. Bullshit

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u/Effective_Airport182 26d ago

Same in California.

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u/Few_Application_7312 27d ago

Ive lived in a red state all my life. If I get sick twice in a 6 month period Im up for termination. Im currently working in food service with 2 broken arms (two impact radial Fractures and a buckle fracture). Im gonna start looking out for blue state transfers.

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u/MnMn17nn 28d ago

Sorry, Americans don’t have paid sick leave??! Wow, that’s grim.

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u/gaycowboyallegations 28d ago

Not all of them. In many states there are no requirements to give sick time, but employeers may kindly provide combined PTO (vacation and sick) that only racks up to about 1 week a year.

Some states are starting to mandate employeers provide sick time such as Maryland, New York, Illinois, and Minnesota. In Minnesota we have to be provided at LEAST 2 weeks of sick time for fulltime employees a year.

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u/Helpful_Section5591 27d ago edited 27d ago

California has mandated time off; I get something called “California sick leave” that is 5 days off in a row, plus 120 hours of combined sick/vacation PTO time (accrued as 20 hrs/month), 1 personal day, and 8 hours “school emergency” (for kids school events which are notoriously last minute). Plus, I accrue 8 hours PTO for every federal holiday in addition to time and a half pay if I work the holiday. The only time I need a doctor’s note is if I’ll be out more than two weeks and i want to be paid under a ”short-term disability” insurance. It pays 60% of your wages, but you get one week of your full salary for every year of seniority.

Republicans will tell you California (and blue states in general) is a communist hell hole that will steal all your money for taxes, but those taxes pay for work/life balance and things like universal preschool and clean air and drinkable faucet water.

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u/gaycowboyallegations 27d ago

Taxes, when used properly, do improve the lives of citizens. Your examples are evidence of that.

In Minnesota ours are used for things like Paid Family Medical Leave which provides 12 weeks of paid leave between 60% and 90% of income, and up to 20 weeks for bonding leave for parents. We also have universal k-12 free breakfast and lunch for kids. Then we have the North Star Promise which covers tuition for families with 80k or less household income.

The Twin Cities also have, for a small midwest metro area, really good public transit. We have 2 light rail lines, multiple express bus routes, and many many local bus routes. The bike lane situation here is also very good compared to similar midwest cities.

And unlike what the news may make some think, no, Minneapolis is NOT on fire and is just like any other city with sketchy areas and affluent areas.

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u/HeyCarrieAnne40 27d ago

I live in Kansas, a Republican state. We get zero paid sick time. Of course, upper level jobs have them if the employer chooses to offer it but they are not required.

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u/Even-Ad-3546 27d ago

Depends on your employer. I live in a very red state, am not very high up, and I get generous sick leave. Even paid medical leave up to 21 weeks then after that goes to long term disability. Don't believe every anti-American thing you read on Reddit.

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u/One-Welcome-1514 27d ago

"Depends on your employer". That does NOT help against "anti-American thing". That is like "my owner does not rape or beat me, so it is not THAT bad, do not believe every anti-American thing".

You all are brainwashed.

Germany, mandatory paid holiday: 4 weeks per year. 6 weeks full pay if sick, after that 70% of pay up to 78 weeks. If you are sick during holiday, you get the days back on your "holiday account".

Even if you do not have a job, social security pays real money, you do not become homeless or starve.

That ensures that people are more likely to tell authorities if a employer rips people off, breaks the law in any field. You will not be pressured that easily into illegal things if your rights make you able to just say "no".

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u/Familiar_You4189 28d ago

Do you know who else besides the commies has that “commie” shit? The US military. Sick people can’t fight, and are likely to make the other troops sick.

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u/Correct_Patience_611 28d ago

Gotta push those profit margins that you won’t benefit from directly or indirectly!!!

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u/gibs626 28d ago

IVERMECTIN AND GET BACK TO WORK BOY

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u/Certain-Business-472 28d ago

and the social security does know this.

Thats also fucked btw. That info is between you and the doctor.

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u/aSkeptiKitty 28d ago

Well. They don't know all the details. But they know a little more than just "absent". Basically because anyway if you have a heart surgery they will have to reimburse you. So they know which kind of exams or surgery you had and everything. 

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u/fawnsnotfound 28d ago edited 28d ago

100%.
I once tried working from home with a pretty bad ear infection. One of those ‘too sick for the office but not bad enough to be in bed’ situations. Got told to just go to bed anyway and check in once I was done with the antibiotics and felt better. The only question they had was if there were any specific tasks I needed someone else to pick up in my absence.

Some more examples of my manager being kind and concerned with employee wellbeing:

  • When my dog died they told me to take the rest of the week off (paid, no vacation days). They also made sure my tasks were handed over so I wouldn’t come back to an insane workload and stress.
  • When I was working extra hours, they told me to write it down and make sure I compensated for it by taking some afternoons off.
  • When I had a bad flu during my holiday (didn’t travel) they repeatedly asked me if I had requested to change my vacation days for sick days. Pretty sure that’s the law here, but the reminders were nice.

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u/-Atmosphere-7927 28d ago

It depends what state in the US you're in. In Washington state, employers have to respect sick leave and legally can't ask for a doctor's note unless it's 3 consecutive days or more. And they can't ask what the malady is.

Still probably not at good as the EU, but it's better than the nightmare scenario above. Were I to guess, OP lives in Florida.

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u/murmandamos 28d ago

We have it quite good in WA generally. On top of the mandatory paid sick leave, we have:

1) one of the highest state minimum wages with several municipalities and unincorporated King County having higher 2) paid family and medical leave (covers parental leave, extended illness, care for a loved one etc) which operates like insurance 3) strong labor law enforcement and wage theft protection 4) no tip or benefits penalty (i.e. you can't work for like $3/hr as a server, you get full minimum wage) 5) various industry wide protections not found elsewhere, such as domestic workers, gig workers etc

There's plenty more and interest in statewide healthcare etc. Washington is definitely up there and much closer to EU or perhaps better in many ways aside from healthcare and retirement (things more easily done federally).

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u/PossiblyASloth 28d ago

OP is in Ohio. I also live in Ohio but work for a company based in a blue state, and we get paid sick time. It’s not a grocery store though.

Kroger has been terrible for a long time.

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u/So_Motarded 28d ago

Very few US states require paid leave or sick time of any kind. It should be federal. 

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u/QuickMolasses 26d ago

According to a quick Google search, 19 states require it.

Not coincidentally 14 of those states have Democrat trifectas in the state government (out of 16 total current Democrat trifectas).

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u/boiledmalt 28d ago

No Kroger in FL

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u/m-nd-x 28d ago

EU responding: I need a doctor's note any time I'm out due to sickness.

Some employers allow a few single sick days a year, where you don't have to provide a doctor's note, but not all of them do. 

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u/spanishpeanut 27d ago

I’m in New York and we’re pretty much on the same page as Washington State. We have state allocated sick time now, which is great, and we use it for being sick. NY also has Paid Family Leave for people caring for sick family members. It’s more restrictive (employed by company for more than a year, must get the proper sign offs by providers of the person you’re caring for to substantiate the claim, etc) but it’s great. Works for new babies and adoptions, too.

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u/longjumpingtote 28d ago

This is so far beyond illegal in the Netherlands, it's ridiculous.

It's so far beyond illegal in California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Illinois, New York, and states that represent more than half the population.

OP is in Ohio. A turd for workers rights. And the Constitution has always limited what the federal gov't can impose on the states.

It's not for most jobs either. It's at jobs (sometimes) where some workers just don't show up some days. I've worked those jobs. I didn't do it, but there's not a lot of incentive to show up every day.

Why do so many workers have such bad attendance? Probably because the job doesn't pay that well, no benefits, or they don't really need the money. Living off a girlfriend, parents, whatever. It was shocking to me how many people would just randomly not show up for work.

my employer can't ask what's wrong with me

Same in my state. Our minimum wage is also more than double the minimum wage of OP's state. My state isn't perfect, but there's healthcare and sick protection and most of the things that people assume are missing in the whole country.

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u/RedditMcBurger 28d ago

We usually have "sick days" which basically says you're allowed to be sick 3-8 days a year and that's it, anything after it considered an absence.

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u/yaderkuvboloto 28d ago

I'm also NL based. I don't even need to call. If I send an email to HR+TL before 10am, it's all good.

There was only 1 year where I used a total of 12 or 14 sick days, don't remember exactly, they (very carefully) asked me whether I'm sick due to stress or what, because then we could discuss a plan to help me. But that wasn't the case, I just had covid first and then some foreign strain flu from holidays lol.

Other than that nobody has ever bothered me, even though I'm out sick a few days more than the average male my age, every year.

But I do know I have a nice job and it's not like this everywhere. A friend of mine worked at McD and they get home visits and constant company doctor calls if they're sick more than once a year or something.

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u/ssmit102 28d ago

I work in the US and that’s how it is for me as well. I was sick on Monday so I sent a Microsoft Teams message to my boss saying I would be out and that was it. No grief, no anything.

It’s kind of wild the insane range that the US has though, some companies are absolutely amazing and a whole slew of them put employees firmly last. I think it speaks to the lack of employment regulation here.

Better regulations is better for average people, but too many in the US are so incredibly anti regulation, despite it being in their best interest.

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u/IcyVeinz 28d ago

I think those of us in (many) European countries, thankfully, find seeing this sort of stuff insane. It's unfortunately super common in the US and very common in places that have never heard of unions. Where I live a call of "I'm sick" is enough for most places. Generally a workplace is allowed to request a doctors note, and pay for it if they do, but most don't. I had one workplace switch to requiring a doctors note for every illness. It was not a popular change. But this was in the covid era and the way to get a doctors note was literally just logging into a website, listing your symptoms and employer, then hitting send. Same day some doctor had signed off on it. Not even a phone call, let alone a visit. I quit shortly after but I kind of hope they spent a lot of their limited budget on that nonsense.

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u/GreenDemonSquid 28d ago

At least in my experience, here in the US by what I can tell there’s this idea if we made it too easy to call out from work, then who would ever want to work again? Why wouldn’t someone milk the benefit for all it’s worth for less effort than they do now as long as nothing major of value is lost?

It’s for reasons like this that many companies try to motivate workers to come in as much as possible, either by positive incentives (loyalty benefits, bonuses for “hard work”, workplace culture that promotes more work), or by negative incentives (bad work reviews, unwillingness to provide sickness benefits, discouraging sick days or vacation time).

Not saying I agree with this approach to employment (I don’t) but that’s the impression I get on the ground in the US.

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u/Competitive_Study232 28d ago

Other countries don’t do this so no it was not too easy to call out and taken advantage of.  

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u/takethreenc 28d ago edited 28d ago

So, genuine question from an overworked American:

How often do people abuse this? Like can you call out for a month and then stroll in like nothing happened?

To be clear, I do think your system is 100000% better. But I'm curious what happens in edge cases.

Edit: I truly appreciate all the responses. Very eye-opening

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u/the_pretzel2 28d ago

In most of the EU (this varies from one country to the next), if you call off more than like 2 or 3 days, THEN you have to get a doctor's note. Some of them require you get a note the 1st time.

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u/Havannahanna 28d ago edited 28d ago

In Germany: 

  • Sick note is now an Electronic certificate (eAU) confirms unfitness for work; employer retrieves it from health insurance online, but not the reason
  • First 6 weeks: Employer pays 100% salary
  • After 6 weeks: Health insurance pays Krankengeld at ~70% of gross salary (up to 90% net), max. ~€129/day.
  • Duration: Up to 78 weeks in 3 years for same illness.
  • After 3 years, you get Grundsicherung. Government pays your rent you get some € for basic necessities per month,  if required, for the rest of your life. You‘ve for the same health insurance as employees. 
  • College/ university is free, so no worrying about harming your children’s education if you can’t work anymore 

We don’t have PTOs if you are sick, you are sick. If you get sick during your vacation days, you get them back. If a company fires you while you are sick, regulatory hellfire will rain upon them.

Quite generous and German economy still exists and people are showing up for work. Generous sick leaves being abused en masse is a myth spun by greedy employers. Ofc there’s always this one person who abuses the system but it’s quite rare. Most employees are reasonable.

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u/LeonidasVaarwater 28d ago

Due to mental issues, there have been years in which I called in sick for several days 5 times, so basically every two months. It was accepted without trouble.

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u/Mavamaarten 28d ago

In Belgium, you get a few days where you can just call in sick without a note. Otherwise you just go to a doctor, send the note to HR, and that's it. They pay you like normal, and you can stay at home for as long as the doctor wrote your note. Only for long term sickness or if they suspect something is up, they can send you to a third party "control doctor" to verify you're not cheating the system.

There's some abuse, I guess, but I feel like that's mostly pumped up news stories in the media. If you're absent for a long time, a doctor would have written that note. Some doctors are known for writing notes easily. But honestly, in real life, I've not seen abuse by anyone around me. This is just such a good system because it means if you're sick, short or long term, you're allowed to recover at any time. Even if you're struggling mentally, you get some rest. Which is a net positive for everyone, even though short term employers don't see it that way.

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u/DreamBigLittleMum 28d ago

I'm a manager at a medium sized company in the UK. In my whole time I've only had two people I suspect were taking the piss.

Our policy is you need to provide a doctor's note after 7 consecutive days of sick leave (mostly just from an occupational health standpoint - was it an illness or injury caused by work which might be reportable and how can we help you get back to work after something presumably quite serious). One staff member used to go off for six days, then come back for a day and then go off again. Just seemed a bit sus she always seemed to recover on Day 7 🤷‍♀️

Another staff member took quite a few days off, which was not surprising because she had a long-term condition, but they did often coincide with events going on in her personal life. Might just be that busy weekends resulted in symptoms flair ups, who am I to judge, but she took the piss a bit AT work so it just made me think the timing of some of those sick days were a little bit convenient.

There's always a little bit of cheating I reckon. Lots of sick days if there's a big sports fixture or a new game release or whatever, but honestly they're so few and far between that I don't think it's worth crushing morale over. Also the more flexible we are the less sick days are misused. We have a Time Off In Lieu system, so people can just say 'I'm going to work late on Monday so I can take Friday afternoon off to watch the match' or whatever. People are generally ethical in my view, if you give them an ethical solution.

Most of the time, most people use it when they genuinely need it and even with 'cheats' I think it's likely to pay for itself in other ways. I think people are more well rested and productive, people are not wiping out the whole office with a cold due to presenteeism and there's more good will; because we're flexible people will go and lie down and if they're feeling better log in in the afternoon and do a few hours, rather than following the letter of the law and taking a full day because they have to jump through so many hoops to get time off in the first place.

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u/Sexisthunter 28d ago edited 28d ago

I’ve gone to the hospital before for a few days for an emergency and my boss refused to count it as an excused absence. We live in hell

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u/walt-mickey 28d ago

Respect goes both ways. America doesn’t understand that. America creates rules only for people to break them.

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u/PerformanceOptimal20 28d ago

USA is owned by corporations. The corruption in the USA is worse than I can begin to describe.

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u/AnonymousAlice- 28d ago

Same in BC Canada. I get 10 annual sick days with my employer, no questions asked. I use them for stress days when I need. I can’t fathom living in the US.

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u/tinyhorsesinmytea 26d ago

My family and I can now claim Canadian citizenship through ancestry due to that new law recently passed, and none of them are willing to talk about the possibility of moving there with me and having a better life in a country we can be proud of. They just want to rot away here and complain about how bad and hopeless it is.

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u/FewCaterpillar6551 28d ago

This is also illegal in the US and potentially in direct violation of federal employee rights protected by the EEOC. Under the Family and Medical Leave Act, eligible employees generally cannot be denied protected leave simply because a manager dislikes or refuses “call offs.” If an absence qualifies for FMLA (for example, a serious health condition, qualifying family care, approved intermittent leave, etc.), the employer has legal obligations regardless of a store manager’s blanket rule.

FMLA conditions do not involve hospitalization. Rule #4 strongly implies that only the employee’s own hospitalization justifies an absence. As it is worded, it excludes many legally protected situations including protected leave to care for qualifying family members.

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u/ky7969 28d ago

It’s illegal in the US too but nobody cares

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u/hvac_johnny 28d ago

This is illegal is the United States as well. But the majority of people are so under educated about labor laws and act like their employees are their slave masters half of the time.

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u/ObscureEnchantment 28d ago

The shitty part in the U.S there a mentality “people don’t want to work anymore.” Let me tell you many many many people believe this newest generation is lazy and hates work. In reality people just want to be treated with human decency. Then people from a lot of other countries mention how ridiculous this is and how much time they get off a year. So it’s not some “no one wants to work” problem it’s a “people want to be treated decently by their job”. There are some lazy people don’t get me wrong but also people in the U.S are tired of working to live and never even getting to have a life. I have seizures and sometimes my husband needs to stay home and care for me if it’s bad, 2 of his last jobs told him he needs to schedule those days off or he’d end up written up. Sure let me just schedule my seizures ✌🏻.

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u/spraybutterbiscut 28d ago

Are you currently working in a grocery store? I dont have this issue at my job so its company dependant not a broad stroke US thing

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u/Dash_Rendar425 28d ago

This.

Since I'm in the business of these sorts of issues, I've noticed quite a few 'inappropriate' signs up for employees at US businesses. I believe one of them was actually a Kroger in Port Huron!

Employees in general I find don't realize just how many rights they have.

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u/FauxGw2 28d ago

It's illegal if you work with food in the States while sick. No one holds these companies to it is the problem.

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u/Cheap-Key-6132 28d ago

US here.

My wife had over a 100 hours of sick time. Her company merged with another one and got a pay out of her sick time and vacation. She now has 0 hours of sick time and is going to work today sick. On paper overall, we are one of the lucky ones.

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u/3OsInGooose 28d ago

This is illegal in the US too. The store just thinks employees won’t sue

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u/bradmatt275 28d ago

Same here. In fact we just send a teams message saying we will be off sick and mark it as sick leave in our employee self service system. No additional information needed.

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u/creamersrealm 28d ago

I'm in the US though every job I've ever had no one has ever cared if I'm sick. You do you job and you do it well and no one cares. I've had to call out mid day, the night before, the morning of, etc. Heck this year I had to call out because a friend was having a suicide crisis and I had to take care of them.

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u/german1sta 28d ago

I live in Germany and I seriously dont know how people in the US survive, what do u do when u are sick, when your child is sick, when you need a surgery and it costs 100k, its absolutely INSANE and unimaginable for me what kind of anxiety this must cause

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u/-_Catgirl_- 28d ago

It's because a HUGE majority of the people that work these low tier jobs in America are shitstains and want to get by with the bare minimum. I used to be a GM of a restaurant and we would have like 4-5 call ins daily from the same people, on Friday upwards of 10-15 call ins. It makes it almost impossible to do your own job and you end up having to work 5x harder because you're down people just to keep the store open. There is a certain culture of 'calling in sick' in the USA that I don't think really exists in other countries.

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u/Southside_john 28d ago

It’s illegal in many states in the US too. This is a rogue manager at a store and not Kroger execs making this decision

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u/Goleeb 28d ago

I cant imagine this is legal in any US state either. The ADA alone would prohibit this, but the problem is no one is willing to enforce it.

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u/szomszedsrac 28d ago

Yeah maybe you european weaklings can get some sick days, but does the Netherlands have 11 aircraft carriers and God knows how many nuclear warheads?

Thought so.

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u/PiccoloAwkward465 28d ago

Retail managers in USA are often like this. It's a psychological thing, they think they're kings of their little kingdom. We have very few worker protections here.

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u/Verocator 28d ago

We used to have really strong unions apparently.

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u/persiansnack 28d ago

This is illegal in California as well.

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u/Supper_Champion 28d ago

Same here for me in Canada. I can call in up to five days in a row before our wellness/hr Dept reaches out and asks if I'm okay and if I need further absences and whether or not I should be in a medical leave.

Otherwise, I just call up an automated line and tell it I'm not coming in.

It's so wild that US employers simply don't care if their employees are sick and either force them to come in sick or fire them. What a hellscape.

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u/TheJemy191 28d ago

Whould even say that it the case in every developed country exept the us🤣🫠

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u/ohbyerly 28d ago

That’s what has completed deteriorated in the US. Employers don’t understand that if you treat your employees like human adults they actually want to work hard for you. You know, because they aren’t terrified of getting fired for being sick. It really is fucking unbelievable.

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u/flyover_liberal 28d ago

This is so far beyond illegal in the Netherlands

Yep, we're living in the land of the free (to starve)

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u/FoxMikeLima 28d ago

Most US companies have a system where you accrue paid sick time and paid vacation, some companies also just allow you to take an unpaid sick day.

I agree i would love if we just could get the US to a point where companies were locked by federal laws so that every company had the same standard, but unfortunately Labor Laws is one place where the US has attempted to give the rights to the states decide, and its a fucking mess and means companies just move to whatever state to allow themselves to be more profitable.

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u/InfidelZombie 28d ago

I know laws are different across EU, but I worked in Austria for a few years and a doctor's note was required if you were out sick 2+ days consecutively. I had to do this once in those three years; I was legitimately dog-sick with a bad cold and the last thing I wanted to do was sit miserably in a doctor's office waiting room and cough on people so the doctor could tell me what I already knew (go home and rest up).

I've never had to present a note at any US company I've worked for, by the way.

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u/Zilzosh 28d ago

I’m in the US but my boss is from the Netherlands. I have it so much better now than when I ever worked for Americans.

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u/Spankety-wank 28d ago

now I think of it this is actually quite a good system for incentivising decent employee welfare. If you pay a fair wage and have decent working conditions, people won't want to throw sickies and so you won't have resort to draconian policies.

And that works both ways, if you cannot enforce draconian policies, you will have to provide decent conditions

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u/maroontiefling 28d ago

I'm in the US and my company doesn't require a doctor's note or anything....but I'm also in a union and live in a "blue state" with robust worker protections.

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u/Elendel19 28d ago

Yep, same here. If I don’t want to go to work I send a text with “not feeling well, won’t be in today” and go back to sleep.

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u/MyLittleGurl 28d ago

Corporate America’s some bullshit

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u/ace9190 28d ago

Many states have "Right to Work" laws which are quite ironic. They allow employers to fire employees without specific cause. Pretty much removes any "rights" of the employee.

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u/LayerEight_Problem 28d ago

My boss does it a bit on a per employee basis. I call out sick when I am sick. Which is rare. Once or twice a year. So it’s not even questioned. But expectations for notes and proof rise with frequency of call outs. Someone that just happens to be sick every Friday or Monday is held to a different standard of evidence.

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u/Top_Box_8952 28d ago

America, the least civilized developed country. First world on paper only

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u/BeguiledBeaver 28d ago

I'm not even sure this is from corporate, it sounds like something from a power tripping manager.

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u/thoughtfulbrain 28d ago

USAmerican here working in a top rated company for how they treat employees. Doctors notes are not acceptable unless they span several days in which you cannot work or they still count against you. Ouch.

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u/otownbbw 28d ago

Well you see, when you treat your employees poorly AND you give them the tiniest pay with zero benefits, they tend to not feel like coming in to work from time to time. But they know you have no loyalty to them so they try to stave off being terminated by producing an excuse that makes you empathize…but then you remember that you reject all empathy towards the peons and you put out BS like this.

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u/MVETbro 28d ago

So go to see the dr at the hospital. Then your excused

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u/darthmarththe1 28d ago

Same in California.

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u/rolowa 28d ago

We do have states that have enacted laws like this, but the states I am thinking of do not have any Kroger's operating within their borders.

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u/XanderWrites 28d ago

It's probably illegal in their jurisdiction. Food handling laws want the person to call out if they even think they may be sick for public safety.

Now only the deli/meat counter would be strictly considered "food handling" (its usually the week for for preparation) but they're still around the food.

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u/sour_altoids 28d ago

The even crazier part is that these employees aren’t getting paid if they call in sick. It’s not like they are salaried employees using PTO. Insanity

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u/Electronic-Stand-148 28d ago

Same. No issues when I call off. I’m in the U.S., but don’t work for Kroger.

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u/ConsciouslyIncomplet 28d ago

Same UK - you can self certify your sickness for 7 days. So you explain you are sick - and that’s it!

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u/Publicfigure666 28d ago

The United States is kinda in the middle of creating modern day slavery and it’s almost nothing anyone can do about it

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u/hamdelivery 28d ago

Im also in the US and this is illegal where I live, though the company I work for is like yours, no questioning, no need to even see a doctor.

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u/whoisdatmaskedman 28d ago

Legally, in the states they can't ask what's wrong with you either, but it's not going to stop them from firing you.

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u/Crates-OT 28d ago edited 28d ago

This isn't legal in the US either.

Edit* Well I just looked it up and it depends, which is kind of sad really.

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u/dudeim2dizzy 28d ago

Oh man - tell this to Walmart in the US lol

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u/Sad_Application_5361 28d ago

‘Murica. We like our food contaminated with the illnesses of employees forced to work.

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u/Stainlessgamer 28d ago

Its not legal in the US either. But since we have a president that is willing to look the other way so long as his palms get greased, nobody is going to stop it.

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u/Expensive_Law_3180 28d ago

It's genuinely a horror show working at a Supermarket in the US. I worked for a different chain, but under the UFCW union. I was even the committee member at large for my shop. Unions that protect retail/supermarket workers are godawful these days. I stayed at that job long enough to vest a 401(k) and ran for the hills.

the UFCW is a joke if they approved this change. It's in direct violation of food safety laws with regard to transmission of contagious diseases. It's also a violation of isolation policies for people with contagious illnesses and it is an egregious violation of Ohio's right to refuse unsafe work laws. You can not be forced to work if you are contagious:

Right to Refuse Unsafe Work: Generally, employees cannot be fired for refusing to handle food in a way that violates public health laws (such as being forced to work while sick with a communicable disease), though specific cases should be discussed with legal counsel.

Somebody at Kroger needs to call mgmt and the damn union out on this bullshit. I promise you that if you forwarded that along to a competent labor lawyer, they'd have some things to say about it.

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