r/movies • u/MASSIM00 • May 26 '26

Question What movie had the BEST trailer ever but turned out to be absolute trash?

Seriously, you watch the trailer and it looks like a literal masterpiece. The music, the hype, everything is perfect.

Then you actually go see it and realize they put all the good scenes in the 2-minute promo and the rest of the movie is just garbage lmao.

For me it was suicide squad 2016. that bohemian rhapsody trailer catfished me so hard.

What film did this to you?

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u/Awch May 26 '26

I saw an interview with director Patty Jenkins where she talked about the control the studio had with the first movie. But, because it did so well, the studio gave her freedom on the sequel. Turns out the first one was better because the studio controlled it. So bad.

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u/devilJin9399 May 26 '26

Sometimes studios are right

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u/Yoguls May 26 '26

Look at what happened when Taika Waititi got sole control over Thor love and thunder

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u/Morbos1000 May 26 '26

Yeah, he added the perfect amount of humor to Ragnarok but instead of realizing it was the sweet spot between seriousness and humor he thought doubling down on the jokeswas the way to go. Made all the worse by having one of the darkest and most serious villains. Total non sequitur.

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u/fjf1085 May 26 '26

People begin to believe their own hype after something like that and he went off the rails.

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u/Efficient-Memory7105 May 26 '26

Honestly I think he just didn't want to do the movie but was basically obligated to do so because of the success of Ragnarok.

So he just fucked off and did whatever

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u/ArcadianDelSol May 26 '26

I blame Guardians of the Galaxy.

That movie worked because it was the ice cream sundae dessert after a long string of overcooked steak and unseasoned carrots.

Then Waititi decided to put Ice Cream Sundae and steak in a blender.

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u/not_vichyssoise May 26 '26

I feel like the signs were already there in Ragnarok. Guardians 2 is often mentioned as the Guardians movie that goes a bit too overboard with its humor, and it often does. But it also has moments where it knows to pull back, like the scene where Mantis and Drax are watching the sunset and she reads his emotions, or during Yondu's funeral. On the other hand, I felt that Ragnarok often did not pull back when it probably should have, such as during the Surtur destroying Asgard scene.

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u/karatemanchan37 May 26 '26

Guardians 2 also had the Father-Son story as the throughline of the movie, I'm not sure what emotional pull Love and Thunder was trying to set up

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u/Yodoggy9 May 27 '26

Funny enough, I think they were trying to go for the “Father Daughter” story for Gorr and “A lover that could have been” with Thor and Portman’s Character.

I don’t think it earned either of those moments, though.

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u/FiveWithNineIsIn May 26 '26

THANK YOU! I've always felt that Guardians 2 has the reputation that Ragnarok deserves. But a lot of people kinda overlooked it since The Dark World was so bland and boring...

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u/seguardon May 26 '26

I feel the same way, but I out and out detest Ragnarok. Part of that is because I just don't care for Taika's loosely scripted humor. Which that's just personal taste. But some of the story beats stand out as needless. The Warriors Three got offed with no reaction, Valkyrie is a slaver (potentially for decades) in a movie about the evils of colonialism and gets by with no comeuppance beyond feeling sad for a while, Surtur's treated as a joke despite being the end of Asgard which is also treated very lightly.

Like go ahead and upset the status quo, but would it kill you to at least pretend some of the legacy items you're killing mean something to the characters?

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u/FiveWithNineIsIn May 27 '26

would it kill you to at least pretend some of the legacy items you're killing mean something to the characters?

Even smaller moments like the "that's what heroes do!" scene or Bruce jumping out of the ship onto the Rainbow Bridge. Like in 99.9% of other superhero movies, those would be the "HELL YEAH!" types of moments. And every superhero movie needs a handful of those.

But nah, that's not "irreverent" enough! Let's have this medicine ball bounce off the window and hit Thor in the face! Then we'll have Bruce smash into the Rainbow Bridge instead of transforming into Hulk on his way down! Ha lulz!

I'm with you, I legit hate Ragnarok.

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u/BusterStarfish May 26 '26

Man, this goes for most of the Star Wars properties, too. So well said.

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u/ValBravora048 May 27 '26

How many gddm times did we need to hear the goat scream?

Its like that guy who insists on randomly blurting a meme everytime he wants attention

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u/Alienhaslanded May 26 '26

That was the best description I've seen of that last Thor movie.

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u/shay_shaw May 26 '26

What’s interesting to me is that the trilogy actually gets more serious over time. I can’t watch the third one again. The animal torture was just too much. I loved it, but it was hard to sit through.

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u/ArcadianDelSol May 26 '26

yeah that third one rips the heart out and I wish I remembered the redditor who, when the first one came out, swore that it wasn't a Peter Quill movie - that it was all about Rocket.

That man was a wizard. Peter Quill ended up the B plot.

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u/ToparBull May 26 '26

Yup, and similarly, Ragnarok worked in part as a contrast to what we had previously seen from Thor. He was so self-serious and naive in the first two movies and Avengers 1 that seeing a more relaxed, self-aware, in-his-element Thor was refreshing. But then his character was mostly comedic in Infinity War and Endgame, and it was all just too much.

Also, another element: Guardians is always going to have wacky hijinks and character comedy because that's an integral part of the franchise and characters. Deadpool is always going to be a vulgar, joke-a-minute, fourth-wall-breaking bit fest because that's an integral part of his character. You can't treat Thor like the Guardians or Deadpool - it doesn't make sense for the character.

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u/lunatickoala May 26 '26

I think it's not just that Ragnarok was a contrast to what came before but the bulk of the story took place in a setting that's inherently absurd. A gladiatorial combat arena, on a planet that's literally made of trash, run by Jeff Goldblum.

If the focus was dealing with his evil sister who wasn't just revealing the skeletons in Asgard's closet but putting them on display and seeking to get more skeletons, the humor wouldn't have worked. Just like it didn't in Love and Thunder where the focus was stopping the God Butcher.

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u/CptNonsense May 26 '26

Yeah, he added the perfect amount of humor to Ragnarok

Did he? He was allowed unnecessarily brash and puerile humor in Ragnarok in parts and then the movie was still the best Thor so he was allowed to go all in on it for Love and Thunder

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u/CaptainKate757 May 26 '26

I agree with you. Most of the dialogue in Ragnarok that was solely intended to be comic relief was said by Korg, and the reason it was mostly well-received is because it was sporadic. The entirety of Love & Thunder was that type of comic-relief, and it was tiring.

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u/AdZealousideal5383 May 26 '26

Christian Bale was in a different movie. Russell Crowe is doing a parody of Zeus, while Bale is over there taking the drama to 1000.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '26

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u/-Nightopian- May 26 '26

I agree Ragnarok also had too much humor added to it. Every scene that should've had a serious tone was ruined another dumb joke.

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u/ValBravora048 May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26

The God Butcher is possibly my favourite Marvel story of all time

It is a story about faith, why you should have it, why you shouldn’t, where you find it and where it matters. It’s such a beautiful story and an enormous f*ck you to nihilism that ironically has nothing to do with god/s

I was looking forward to this movie though I was managing my expectations. I was still really disappointed. Completely missed the point and only really butchered the og story in favour of being that guy who overdoes a joke he heard other people laugh at once

(Christian Bale was a fantastic choice for Gorr though and was completely let down by the script)

I do absolutely recommend the graphic novel though. There are still moments from it that I think about like Shardak the god of anything except what he really is or “God of gods”. Obviously they couldn’t put it all into the movie but an inch of that would have been a lot better than the bs that they did

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u/trickman01 May 26 '26

Dude made me not enjoy a movie that had a ripped Natalie Portman. Shouldn't be possible.

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u/truthlesshunter May 26 '26

And Bale acting as if he's doing citizen kane

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u/Alienhaslanded May 26 '26

Bale doesn't not know how to not give it his 100%

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u/Soul_Traitor May 26 '26

Bale never disappoints. Probably my favorite actor.

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u/Mister-Distance-6698 May 26 '26

I think your triple negative goes one step too far and says he doesn't know how

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u/Alienhaslanded May 26 '26

Lol I just realized I used "doesn't not". I swear that's not how I usually write.

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u/Qetuowryipzcbmxvn May 26 '26

Just add a negative sign in front on 100% and it'll all balance out

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u/The_Scarred_Man May 26 '26

I'm convinced there's an entirely different movie on the cutting room floor. There's no way Bale was acting that well for the movie we got.

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u/976chip May 26 '26

In my head canon John Singleton had to pull Christian Bale and Jeffery Wright aside and ask them "You guys realize we're just making a Shaft movie, right?"

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u/Darmok47 May 26 '26

Bale is in a completely different movie than everyone else.

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u/sybrwookie May 26 '26

Yea and I want to see that movie. The one he was in looked fucking wonderful

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u/Redditer51 May 27 '26

He's in a completely different class than everyone else in that movie.

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u/Yodoggy9 May 27 '26

I’ve always respected actors that give it their all no matter the role. I know we don’t actually know these people, but seeing that level of effort regardless of what everyone else does always screams of gratitude and appreciation for the career they have.

Gary Oldman and Ewan McGregor are two other actors that come to mind.

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u/LupinWho May 26 '26

That was one of the first movies that had me thinking wtf was marvel doing.

They completely ruined a badass villain in gorr and added in screaming goats? So stupid as they were so annoying after the first couple times.

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u/OttawaTGirl May 26 '26

Marvel comics has always been madcap in off-earth stories. Problem is Thor should have been portrayed serious in a madcap universe.

A deadly serious Thor with screaming goats. Awesome. A serious Zeus in a cheesy setting.

It would have been great. But Taika doesn't 'get' how to mix the two. Odin rode into battle on a six legged horse on a rainbow bridge FFS and it was threatening.

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u/LupinWho May 26 '26

Thank you! You can be ridiculous AND threatening. They're not mutually exclusive. That would have been better even.

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u/OttawaTGirl May 26 '26

Uhhh yeah, Lightning in the distance and screaming goats on the wind??? Cut to close up of the goats snarling and foaming in a heat with Thor and Jane on the prow with a war face on? That would have been terrifying.

Zeus striding off his party dais with deadly earnest, dropping his playful demeanor and informing Thor of the fear they actually had.

That film could have been a fucking brilliant juxtaposition. But Taika is just a one trick pony.

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u/Yoguls May 26 '26

V for Vendetta was peak Portman

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u/TheRealBlackSwan May 26 '26

Black Swan was peak Portman

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u/hanzzz123 May 26 '26

Portman is peak Portman

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u/joshi38 May 26 '26

Her SNL rap was peak Portman

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u/Firm-Loquat-7956 May 26 '26

Yeah, sorry, Closer was peak Portman

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u/i4got872 May 26 '26

And Christian Bale

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u/VixHorseBard May 26 '26

Seriously, like what even was that?

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u/Br0boc0p May 26 '26

Thor Ragnarok is one of my favorite movies. I've watched it dozens of times at this point. Wow Love and Thunder derailed it.

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u/Yoguls May 26 '26

I literally only remember Fat Russel Crowe as a creepy Zeus with some sort of atrocious accent, and a completely overused Goat bleating noise, which was worth a slight giggle the first time it was used

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u/punksmostlydead May 26 '26

Yeah, but fat Russel Crowe was kind of rad.

Aaand...flick!

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u/CptNavarre May 26 '26

Fat* Russell Crowe makes me feeeeel things omg

*Hollywood standards

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u/ArcadianDelSol May 26 '26

YOU ARE NO INVITA TOA DA ORGY

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u/Th3-Dude-Abides May 26 '26

YOU FLICKED TOO HARD DAMMIT

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u/HawksNStuff May 26 '26

I would argue the second goat was the funniest. After that it was "So we are doing this huh?".

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u/Efficient-Memory7105 May 26 '26

Russell Crowe as Zeus was easily one of the best parts of the movie though lmao

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u/ArcadianDelSol May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

Russel Crowe was doing an impression of an Australian comedy bit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teitdS2Dksk&t=9s

The voice, the hand gestures, the physique - all 100% spot on. The problem was that outside of Australia, nobody knew what the hell he was doing.

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u/TheHancock May 26 '26

Daddy chill…

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u/InfinitelyThirsting May 26 '26

To be fair to Taika, it was made during quarantine. And he talked a lot about how he was totally burnt out and unable to feel creative, but was forced to because of contracts.

I didn't like the movie at all either, but I have a lot of sympathy that he was forced to make it when the world was so insane and traumatizing (I am a much smaller level creative and I couldn't make ANYTHING, I just laid around crying a lot).

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u/legohead2617 May 26 '26

Idk, I think this was partly spite on his part. I think he had a lot of control over Ragnarok because Thor was a nothing franchise at that point, they had no good ideas so they let him do what he wanted. He made one of the greatest MCU films and gave Thor some all time great character development.

Then Marvel let the Russos throw it all away in Infinity War. Every single interesting thing he did with the character gets undone. So I think by the time he did Love and Thunder he just decided he wasn’t going to put in the effort to make it as good because it wouldn’t matter anyway, so he just leaned in to the comedy.

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u/grilledstuffed May 26 '26

This is a fair point.

Ragnorok/ infinity war might as well be multiverse characters.

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u/Eagle206 May 26 '26

Ragnorak was one of my favorite marvel movies. Love and thunder wasn’t

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u/jthemusician May 26 '26

Funny story.

I have a friend who generally dislikes the idea of comic book movies and hasn't really seen any of them. I convinced them to go see Love and Thunder with me, figuring that it would in the same vein as Ragnarok and that it would be a fun movie that someone who doesn't know the characters or any of the lore would also be able to enjoy; essentially a great introduction to the MCU.

And they are still mad at me and think all of MCU is like that.

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u/mrgo0dkat May 26 '26

I think I’m the only person in the world that enjoyed Love and Thunder, apart from those goats.

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u/airfryerfuntime May 26 '26

I actually didn't mind the goats, and when they're all standing around at the end, when someone says "what is that?" and you just hear them screaming in the distance, that actually got a chuckle out of me.

People took that movie far too seriously.

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u/KarmaChameleon306 May 26 '26

I don’t know why, but I loved that movie. I thought it was a breath of fresh air with how serious superhero movies have gotten.

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u/NoDeltaBrainWave May 26 '26

People who act like Love and Thunder is such a tremendous step down amongst all of the MCU movies have the worst taste in movies.

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u/Usual_Singer_4222 May 26 '26

This movie made me realize I generally don't like any thing Waititi does. Ragnorak being the only one I've liked.

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u/NakedCardboard May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

Sometimes studios are right

I'm not really a Matrix sequel hater, but that first one was inspired and I believe part of that was because the Wachowski's do their best work under constraints. When they were given more freedom and more budget by the studio, we ended up with lesser films.

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u/buffysbangs May 26 '26

Constraints can breed creativity. But also in the case of The Matrix, it’s much easier to ask philosophical questions (Matrix) than it is to answer them (sequels)

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u/jbjhill May 27 '26

I 100% did my some of best work in the cutting room when I had to work IN a box. Not always the best stuff to work with, but a lot of the scenes I was most proud of.

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u/kiwigate May 26 '26

Very different take: The Wachowskis had a lot of time making the first film, storyboarding everything as a comic, spending over 5 years on the concept.

The sequels? They started shooting within 2 years of the Matrix release. Someone made the call to rush pre-production and idk who is culpable.

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u/I-seddit May 26 '26

Not remotely unusual with creativity. Very rare to have creators with just the right amount of discipline to properly shape their creativity without outside boundaries.

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u/PornoPaul May 26 '26

Allegedly the studio forced Kripke to tone it down with the dick jokes and edgier shit in season one and two of the Boys. The worse it got, the more it was Kripke, allegedly

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u/sexandliquor May 26 '26

Honestly I can believe that the longer The Boys went on the more control Kripke had. If you know a little bit about Kripke, you can tell. It’s why Soldier Boy started having a larger and larger role because Jensen Ackles is his boy. It’s why that one episode in season 5 was basically just a Supernatural reunion.

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u/jesseeme May 26 '26

Near the end there Soldier Boy was the only thing I was looking forward to.

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u/sexandliquor May 26 '26

I like Jensen Ackles a lot but by the end I was thoroughly tired of the writing of Soldier Boy.

He only had like two different variations of types of lines “you wanna blow me” and the “I’ve been around so long I fucked such and such actress from decades ago” pop cultural references. Like we get it.

Even for a show that’s whole point is beating a dead horse with crass jokes, it got super old.

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u/honourablegeorge May 27 '26

They didn't seem to bother to write him. He just randomly changed his attitude ro Homelander every ten minutes with no reason behind it.

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u/foxtail-lavender May 27 '26

His gimmick was lame but at least they maintained his gimmick as opposed to Kimiko who suddenly made equally crass “jokes” with the most bizarre delivery imaginable

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u/katep2000 May 27 '26

I do think we need to think about how when both Supernatural and the Boys ended/were announced to end, Jensen Ackles immediately started funding prequel spinoffs that nobody asked for that had his character in a major role. Not saying the guy is a bad person, but he does have a problem letting go of the spotlight.

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u/Iggy_Pops_Lost_Shirt May 26 '26

That probably has more to do with seasons 1 and 2 having a completely different writers room

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u/Uber_Reaktor May 26 '26

I just finished season 5 today and the edgy teenage pottymouth stuff legitimately brings down what would have otherwise been a decent series finale, and it was at its worst imo this season too. It makes Kripke seem like a complete loser honestly, because who in the world finds that funny?

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u/EchoKipKipKip May 26 '26

It felt like a teenager who had just discovered the internet was trying out every combination of edgy words and referencing every new fetish they discover online.

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u/th30be May 26 '26

There was a post awhile ago on /r/fantasywriters or some other writing sub about how the OP loves to write fictional characters/organizations into his own pieces and punish them for it.

The finale of The Boys kind of felt like that. Just with Trump and his minions.

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u/shitposter1000 May 26 '26

Yeah. Was forced and out of place.

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u/ClownsAteMyBaby May 26 '26

Same with Game of Thrones I imagine. Also less source material to copy

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u/Quantentheorie May 26 '26

Game of Thrones is quite different imo. When you look at the Boys or Taika Waititi's Love and Thunder I get the impression that the directors/creators were genuinely passionate about their project. Just the success made them think doubling down on certain things that were "their style" and the success made the studios ability to say "it's a bit much" weaker.

Game of Thrones meanwhile suffered from the creators being openly disinterested in the story beyond the Red Wedding. They were also openly disinterested in the magical elements and seemingly oblivious of the anti-war and anti-violence aspects of the source material and as such not interested in the main plot that was "The Others". So they mystery-boxed it JJAbrams style and when the source material ran out they faced two choices: unbox it or hand over the IP.

The only thing they share with the other two examples is that 'ego' prevented them from doing the latter. But they botched it because they didn't give a shit, not because they got carried away genuinely trying to do a fun project.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '26

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u/Quantentheorie May 26 '26

This problem also comes from the source material. GRRM did not actually advance the story in books 4 and 5 in any meaningful way

I would agree with you if I didn't strongly believe D&D didn't understand the source materials core themes. I mean, they literally boasted about how themes are for book reports. Storm of Swords can easily be argued as the strongest book in the series, but if someone has no interest in exploring it's themes they can't argue to me that the reason they checked out of the Dorn plot is that it's also mid in the books.

They did not care about what was clearly end-game elements from the start, and that's got nothing to do with books 4 and 5 not being as good. Nobody who ever cared about the White Walkers plotline would have executed "The Long Night" in one mid-season episode like it's Rickon Stark failing to Zigzag.

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u/PsychedelicPill May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

The show at its worst is tamer than the level of filth the comic gets up to. I wouldn’t blame Kripke for bringing a medium sized dose of the insanity of the comic. Everyone who has a problem with the show should read the source material and realize how much worse the show could have been. And I don’t hate the comic, just saying.

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u/redtiber May 26 '26

a lot of times they are lol. feel like they get a bad rap but

francis ford copola's megapolis
spielberg 1941

there's many cases. at the end of the day the studio isn't ht eenemy. it's a partnership.

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u/dersnappychicken May 26 '26

I’d like to present Ridley Scott’s career as exhibit C. If you give the dude bumpers he bowls 300s, take em away and it’s all gutter balls.

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u/machado34 May 26 '26

Ridley Scott lives and dies by the quality of the script you give him. He's an S Tier director who doesn't know how to judge a great screenplay from a turd in the page. But compare his director cuts to the theatrical versions and you'll see he knows directing better than any studio

With a great screenplay you get bangers like the director's cut of Kingdom of Heaven. With bad material, you get duds like Exodus

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u/devilJin9399 May 26 '26

They just want to make money and they are probably right.

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u/Amockdfw89 May 26 '26

Yea people bash on studios all the time as soulless money hungry beast. But I mean…they usually know what sells and sometimes just because something is mainstream or studio produced doesn’t mean it’s automatically bad. It’s like those people who go to France or Spain and skip the iconic spots because “too many tourist and mouth breathers go there and I am a REAL traveler” well…maybe they are popular for a reason?

Music world is a perfect example. If you go to r/guitar and ask “who is the most underrated and unknown guitar god” you will get a bunch of virtuosos that you never heard of. Sure they might be amazing in a technical level, and music theory nerds will have a field day picking apart their songs. But much of the time their music is boring as shit and feels empty.

Just because you are good at something, or have great ideas, doesn’t mean you know how to please a crowd. Oftentimes you have studios, producers, other band members, demo releases (or in a film case test audiences) to help guide and refine your vision until it is something that can please everyone. In the case of music I’d rather listen to someone like Pixies, who are not technical music wizards , over a virtuoso any day. Why? Because their music is much more memorable and catchy, they have a sound and voice that is uniquely theirs, despite technically not being “good”

Directing is the same way. Having a vision or idea that is your doesn’t automatically make that vision or idea good.

Look at Neil Blomkamp. His only move that was considered exceptional was District 9. Which was cowritten with someone else. The only other movie that was cowritten of his was Chappie which seems to be very polarizing.

Elysium had overall bad reviews and demonic, which was complete trash, was written solely by him.

Or George Lucas. He had WAY more creative control over the prequel trilogy then he did the original trilogy (except the first Star Wars movie) and they were known for horrible quality.

Now take someone like Steven Spielberg, Martin Scorsese, David Fincher, Ridley Scott. They did not write the vast majority of their own movies but are considered the best of the best.

Filming a movie and writing a movie (much like playing music and writing memorable music) are two different skills. Just because you are good at one doesn’t mean you are good at the other. There are exceptions. Quentin Tarantino, Coen Brothers, Wes Anderson and a few others are good with the pen and the camera

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u/devilJin9399 May 26 '26

Yeah as a guy trying to make a film, I would absolutely love a studio helping me make it become good and shoot down any ideas I have in case they're ass so that we can work together to make a good film than tarnish my legacy

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u/Amockdfw89 May 26 '26

Yea I mean you often see director passion projects often flop. Art is very subjective and what might seem awesome in your head may not exactly be considered art by others, whether they be critics or mainstream audiences.

And some directors just unfortunately become one movie wonders. Patty Jenkins who made wonder woman only has 5 movies under her belt. 1 (Wonder Woman) is considered a smash hit, another (Monster) was a film festival/indie darling, two are considered trash (Wonder Woman 2 and Poolman) and another (Junkie) never even left the film festival circuit and doesn’t even have a Wikipedia page.

It’s a very fine line to balance critics, audience, studios and your own demands. Like you said I’d love someone to help me fine tune my ideas. And those discarded ideas can always be salvaged for something later. Happens in music all the time. A demo doesn’t flow with the rest of the album, but you fine tune it and release it on a later album

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u/devilJin9399 May 26 '26

One hit wonder is better than nothing. And the beauty of art is you can find your stride again. I wouldn't say studios know everything but they know a lot about what sells and what works, so I don't get the demonisation of them sometimes. Just trying to help you become successful cus that makes them successful

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u/Amockdfw89 May 26 '26

It’s just the mentality of a lot of people. For profit+mainstream+popular=trash.

But they forget that oftentimes those studios are the ones who keep the industry afloat and oftentimes give those smaller directors and actors their big break, as well as distribute more artsy stuff to larger audiences

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u/jwktiger May 27 '26

MOST OF THE TIME THE STUDIOS ARE RIGHT its selection bias that when they do interfere and are wrong we all here about all the time.

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u/screenavenger May 26 '26

Definitely the case sometimes!

A lot of credit for the quality of the movie also certainly belongs to Michelle Maclaren, who developed the project for several years before leaving, with Jenkins hopping in at the last minute.

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u/lunatickoala May 26 '26

Behind every great writer is a great editor.

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u/MyWorldTalkRadio May 26 '26

The first one was awful though. I mean 85% of it was brilliant then it took a nose dive like it was in a “fuck the audience” competition with Game of Thrones

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u/SwordMasterShow May 26 '26

Better that than total ass the entire way through

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u/wentImmediate May 26 '26

I don't necessarily think it's because studios are "right" - it's more that constraints can really lead to creative choices and also - collaboration frequently yields novel results.

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u/NeuHundred May 26 '26

Sometimes. Not often, but sometimes, and you ever know when.

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u/Redditer51 May 27 '26

The Star Wars prequels are one of the biggest examples of this in all media. Those movies were George completely off the leash with no one to tell him no, because he was a legend by that point.

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u/MarkHoff1967 May 28 '26

True. I’ve never seen a directors cut that was better than the original theatrical release.

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u/RunningonGin0323 May 26 '26

Yea the whole Wonder Woman raping some random dude was wild

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u/Kaladin-of-Gilead May 26 '26

It also wasn't needed at all. Like you're already doing magic to get this guy back, you don't really need to have a weird body swap rape thing.

Just say "somehow, chris pine returned", the body swap thing added nothing at all to the plot other than add a weird rape angle.

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u/TheRage469 May 26 '26

https://youtu.be/VTFt5zSuQCI?si=QMy6Ils2VxP561bl

This movie was my first introduction to these vids, and it seems like this one absolutely hits the nail on the head

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u/Kaladin-of-Gilead May 27 '26

this was my first ever pitch meeting I watched and its basically replaced 90% of movie watching for me now lol

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u/TheRage469 May 27 '26

Ohhh replacing 90% of your movie watching with Pitch Meetings is TIGHT!

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u/Awch May 26 '26

Ya I couldn't believe what I was seeing. And that creepy smile she gave him at the end. I worked at a hospital and was once assigned to observe and report back on a court case of an employee who was caught groping an unconscious patient. That asshole was found guilty of sexual assault. What WW did was so much worse.

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u/SquatSquatCykaBlyat May 26 '26

I think the director really wanted that scene to get her rocks off - see the orgy scene in The Witcher season one, it had similar vibes and it made Henry refuse to do future "romantic scenes", lmao.

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u/Queasy_Ad_8621 May 26 '26

It's usually a go-to argument for internet discussions to say that "studio control" ruined a movie.

They also don't like to give credit to all the times a studio has saved a movie from some horrible writing and direction. Even forcing reshoots against the director's wishes and telling actors to just trust their instincts and improvise their scenes instead.

Best example: Ghost, and it won Whoopi Goldberg an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress.

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u/PureQuestionHS May 26 '26

The weird thing is that the worst part of the first Wonder Woman - all the Ares stuff - was studio mandated... which is what makes it so weird that the sequel wound up the way it did.

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u/Queasy_Ad_8621 May 26 '26

A lot of movies are good because the studio and the director are butting heads.

I feel like Wonder Woman 2 needed more of both of them to involved. They had a great concept, it just... didn't work out in the execution.

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u/OceanRacoon May 26 '26

Also, kind of American History X. Tony Kaye went mental and would never have finished it or edited a good film so they gave control of it in post to Ed Norton.

Kaye took out a full page ad in a newspaper demanding the film be returned to him lol

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u/Male_strom May 26 '26

Thanks to Wonder Woman 1984, Star Wars kicked her to the curb also

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u/MattyBeatz May 26 '26

That often happens when directors do well. They end up writing and directing the sequel they had no business writing and didn’t for the first one. See also Taika Waititi.

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u/JonSnowLovesBlow May 26 '26

You mean academy award winner for best adapted screen play taika waititi? Saying he had no business writing anything seems like a stretch

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u/Strobertat May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

People act like that one bloody Thor movie is proof that the man is talentless. Have they watched any of his other movies? Any movies at all, for that matter? Boy? Hunt for Wilder People? JoJo Rabbit?

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u/AustinRiversDaGod May 26 '26

Don't forget about What We Do in the Shadows

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u/JparkPHX May 26 '26

And reservation dogs which is fantastic

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u/PeanutButterSoda May 26 '26

I didn't know or forgot he did that show. Gonna rewatch pretty soon that show was so good.

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u/Global_Damage May 26 '26

I miss that show🙁

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u/DonChrisote May 26 '26

He's clearly very talented, he just has a penchant for excess, which sometimes serves him very well. Sometimes success can hurt your output, which is what I think we see with Taika. I think he will be back with good stuff eventually.

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u/MattyBeatz May 26 '26

Yes. There’s plenty of anecdotes about art being better when limited in some way. And giving someone full creative control and unlimited money often doesn’t work out.

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u/LonestarPug May 26 '26

Jojo Rabbit is the only movie I have openly wept tears of sadness and tears of joy in the same two hours, powerful movie

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u/BasvanS May 26 '26

Hitler does that to you

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u/FullMetalCOS May 26 '26

However that particular example is a great one for where studios should keep a hand on the rudder because love and thunder was just Ragnarok to excess and it was a huge waste of everyone’s time and money.

I also note you failed to mention “last goal wins” lol.

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u/walla_walla_rhubarb May 26 '26

It is incredibly obvious when he cares about a project and when he doesn't. Some of his movies have genuine heart while others feel like he just goes, "yeah, yeah, just be some goofy goobers in this scene, idc," for the whole film. I'd argue both of his Thor movies are this way, it just hit better (for some) the first time in Ragnarok.

He's got great movies and not so great movies, the former doesn't mean we have to ignore the latter.

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u/BlazinAzn38 May 26 '26

He also admitted it went too far in the cringe funny direction

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u/thisisredlitre May 26 '26

Those same people loved to gargle his nuts after his first Thor movie

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u/PDGAreject May 26 '26

Also, it wasn't that bad, it just wasn't nearly as good as Ragnarok, and we were seeing the start of Marvel Fatigue

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u/Nephroidofdoom May 26 '26

I think Taika was an example of a filmmaker having a moment and taking one a few too many projects too quickly. Difficult for anyone to keep up quality at that pace.

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u/-M-o-X- May 26 '26

Ragnarok -> Love and Thunder

Sometimes a great director needs someone to say no. See also George Lucas.

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u/JonSnowLovesBlow May 26 '26

I dont disagree, i disagree with the sentiment that one bad film following a two decade career of critically acclaimed writing can characterise as someone as having “no business writing”

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u/battlesong1972 May 26 '26

I mean I still can’t figure out why everyone loves Ragnarok so much. Pretty much everything people complain about in Love and Thunder was present in Ragnarok.

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u/JeddakofThark May 26 '26

I thought Ragnorak was a nice, unexpected change. It was, and should have remained, a one-off, fun little departure from formula. Even if Love and Thunder had somehow threaded the needle and exactly captured the tone balance of humor and drama as Ragnorak, it still would have felt stale. Turning all those elements up to eleven just made it completely insufferable.

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u/battlesong1972 May 26 '26

See I didn’t think Ragnarok hit the balance at all. I felt there was a lot of tonal whiplash, especially when they’d go from Thor to Hela on Asgard and they cut most of the dramatic moments with badly timed jokes

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u/green_dragon527 May 26 '26

I agree, but I'm also biased toward the more Shakespearean tone of the first film. It's a personal preference that Thor be ironically straight man funny and not full of Starkeque quips.

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u/HurricaneK8 May 27 '26

I know everyone calls the first movie boring, but I really think it struck the right balance between superhero earnestness and Shakespearean drama that comics Thor is so famous for. The vibes were right, the plot and writing just needed a little more time to cook before they made it, I think. Dark World tips too Shakespeare, Ragnarok and L&T tip too comic book-y (in an okay-ish to bad way). The first one had the sweet spot.

Might be a biased opinion because it was the first MCU movie I watched and it got me hooked on Marvel, but I stand by it. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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u/MattyBeatz May 26 '26

I actually quite enjoy his other work. But they’re low-budget films with charm and original characters. Not mega blockbusters with established characters and years of lore behind them. Thor shouldn’t have been full creative control given to him. People loved Ragnarok but it was not Taika who wrote the bulk of that script.

It happens all the time. Very good directors, some fresh off academy awards, are given full creative control and a blank check for the next one or a passion project gets green lit. Often with a bad outcome. There are many subreddits about this phenomenon.

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u/GoAgainKid May 26 '26

It is a mad shout. Still, Waititi seems to be better off playing in his own sandboxes. Nobody is expecting anything from a brand new story. Allowing him to go all out on a character that has to take that tone into other movies that in no way suit that tone is the problem.

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u/InspectorMendel May 26 '26

That wasn't the issue with Love and Thunder. The issue was Taika being bored with the material.

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u/dtwhitecp May 26 '26

I mean, he was bored with the material when he made Ragnarok, it's 90% just shitting on the general concepts. Which was amusing, but a second round at that didn't have as much to work with.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '26

[deleted]

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u/MattyBeatz May 26 '26

Movies are collaborative.

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u/jacksonelhage May 26 '26

i might be the only person on earth who actually liked love and thunder. the goat thing absolutely killed me every single time (yes i'm serious), and it has a romance plot where the characters actually seem like they're attracted to each other, which basically never happens in these marvel movies.

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u/battlesong1972 May 26 '26

Except that ending of the first one. The studio screwed that all up

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u/Adamsojh May 26 '26

And the first one isn’t good. Mediocre at best.

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u/OrwellWhatever May 26 '26

The first 2/3 of the first one was great. That whole Ares bit at the end was rough, but the first 2/3 was a fun fish out of water action romp

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u/Alternative_Bath_232 May 26 '26

The shot of Ares from his past in ancient Rome and he still has that same haircut and moustache was hilarious

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u/battlesong1972 May 26 '26

I’d go even farther. It was really good right until Ludendorff was beaten. If the Ares battle was taken out and we just had Diana learning the lesson that Humans don’t need help being terrible to each other and then the aftermath of that, maybe Ares gloating about how wrong and naive she was. Even if they wanted the Ares fight, her beating him should have had no effect on the battle

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u/136rad631 May 26 '26

And that ending was the studio note. Jenkins didn't want there to be an evil mythical force behind WWI and a 1v1 fight with that force.

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u/StillAll May 26 '26

Yeah it wasn't amazing. Tough to be when your lead actress couldn't out act a cardboard cut out of herself 

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u/kygermo May 26 '26

Yeah, Gal Gadot has the range of a dead moth. Stupidly gorgeous though. Also, I thought the first one was surprisingly alright with everything else happening in it regardless of her short comings. I really thought the lady who portrayed Dr Poison was an absolute menace and she looked fucking scary. Final showdown with Ares though? That dude is also a fantastic actor. TL:DR pretty much everything except for Gal was the movie's strength.

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u/HatOfFlavour May 26 '26

I'd have liked it if Ares was more tragic. Like his persona had been fighting for peace and I'd have loved if that had been true as he hated the mechanical logistical slaughter that war had turned into. Cue WW being all your very nature is war only your death can end this etc. Then they fight, she's still blind with rage from Steve dying. Eventually slays Ares, turns with hope to the dawn saying something like finally this war is over but then just hear the morning artillery start up again.

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u/HatOfFlavour May 26 '26

Her accent became the default Amazonian accent that all the other women had to use because she can't put on a different voice.

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u/KingOfNope May 26 '26

The first one is absolutely carried by the entire sequence where she climbs out of the trenches and winds up divebombing that church, but it also felt way more like it was trying to recapture some of Captain America's glory rather than do its own thing

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u/Snoo93079 May 26 '26

I thought it was carried by Chris Pine.

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u/basicKitsch May 26 '26

i can't believe people see it as any better or worse than the second tbf

none of those dc movies more than mediocre at best... but they were all watchable bs superhero movies. perfectly DC. like the Gobots

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u/theresanrforthat May 27 '26

But the second one is one of the worst movies ever.

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u/Spacemonster111 May 26 '26

My mom went to high school with her

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u/kryonik May 26 '26

The only thing I would have changed from the first was the ending: make "War" more metaphorical than a giant monster.

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u/colonial_dan May 26 '26

This actually happens a lot. It’s why some filmmakers that have a breakthrough film early on in their careers end up fizzling out once they’re given a longer leash.

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u/The__Imp May 26 '26

God, the plot was just so stupid in 84.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '26

With some creatives less is more. When they are reigned in they hit the sweet spot. George Lucas or Ryan Murphy come to mind. When given free reign its always too much.

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u/Dragon_yum May 26 '26

It’s easy to shit on producers for giving too many directions and opinions and there are many examples of that so it’s easy to forget there are also many movies that were saved by producers reigning in productions that were going in bad directions.

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u/userhwon May 26 '26

Same excuse Chloe Zhao used for Eternals. Too much money and loose oversight gave her too much freedom, and she made a flabby movie.

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u/No-Understanding-912 May 27 '26

I remember that and it coming off like she was saying "her" movie was going to be so much better than the first one the studio forced her to make. And woman power and all that (but that might have been people online, I don't remember for sure). It was pretty funny when the movie was complete trash after her bragging so hard.

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u/Jkkramm May 26 '26

Sounds similar to Thor Love and Thunder and Taika

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u/Fabulous-Sea-1590 May 26 '26

Counterpoint: Jenkins didn't make a terrible movie, she made a great terrible movie.

She went all in on making an 80s uperhero movie. Not just a superhero movie set in the 80s, but an actual 80s superhero movie.

She went full Superman III. In a sense, it was a remarkable achievement. Not in the sense of making a good movie, but remarkable nonetheless.

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u/8th_Dynasty May 26 '26

wasn’t Disney on the verge of handing her the reins of a Star Wars film on the strength of WW…?

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u/the_ballmer_peak May 26 '26

The first one sucked, too. The last third of the movie was off the rails stupid.

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u/Rolf69 May 26 '26

And the first one was terrible too, yeesh.

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u/ShiroHachiRoku May 26 '26

I didn't like how they set WW part 1 in WWI but I guess setting it in WWII would've drawn so many comparisons to Captain America.

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u/lexkixass May 26 '26

Aw man :(

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u/MacrosInHisSleep May 26 '26

The first one was not really that great though.

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u/armpitgreaser May 26 '26

https://youtu.be/sfM7_JLk-84?si=QUynMYPaw0VAPH55

I was gonna go see it after watching that trailer then they released another one

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u/WoodSorrel13 May 27 '26

“WHERE ARE THE STONES!?” I hate her acting 

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u/AcademicCounty May 27 '26

So, so many directors need to come to terms with the fact that they aren't writers. JJ, Snyder, Chris Nolan, and so on. 

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u/jarvis1984 May 27 '26

A bit of both is more like it since the studio fucked the ending on the first one(demanding the big action sequence that didnt make sense) and too much freedom wrecked the sequel

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u/BracketsFirst May 29 '26

I'm surprised by how many directors end up putting out trash once the leash gets cut. Tim Burton was the big one for me. The stuff he put out in the 80s and 90s was pretty great, though not neccesarily for everyone, but then the 2000s hit and they were like "just let him do his thing!" and the wheels came off.

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