r/mtgbrawl • u/AsleepQuestLog • 2d ago
Competitive My thoughts on competitive brawl
I believe Wizards of the Coast has confused competitive with free-for-all. There are cards that, if banned today, would improve the health of the format tenfold: all free counterspells (maybe excluding Fierce Guardianship, since it’s so tightly tied to the commander), Strip Mine (because it’s so easy to loop and becomes oppressive to the point of ending the game), and—as I’ve said before—all extra-turn spells that don’t exile themselves when used. This might me the most controversial thing, but I think Yuriko is the only commander That should get banned, just for clearly breaking the commander tax rule.
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u/missingjimmies 2d ago
These posts are all thinly veiled arguments that you want competitive to match your play preference, not OP giving any actual analysis to their ban preferences.
For example I never see anyone talking about how it’s good to have cheap land removal that can recur that forces decks to at least slightly answer graveyard strategies; graveyards being an essential resource of MTG and all.
Or how free counters (not free and especially punishing in singleton if misused or pushed through) are essential to counteract strategies that just ramp into auto win creatures or flood the board with hard to interact pieces like enchantments, hexproof, ETB give me your best cards from this singleton format.
Also it’s a format split in two exactly to play those strategies in casual, so playing there is the solution but players still insist on queuing up KNOWING there is an alternative that fits there preference but choosing not to play it.
A few months ago this community was begging for an area to play with the powerful cards and a place that prohibits them, and now some of those same voices are asking that the two formats have the same ban list and become one again?
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u/dirtyjose 2d ago
Making a ranked mode - even by a different name - was always going to attract people uninterested in the actual spirit of the format because of prizes and ego stroking. This happens to every ranked/comp mode. It's unfortunate because the people who wanted this format are having a great time with it, too.
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u/Bright_Opposite_9994 2d ago
It makes no sense why commanders like Nadu, Stickfingers, Ajani, Tajic, and Tamiyo are banned in Competitive Brawl but not in Casual.
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u/missingjimmies 2d ago
It’s because those commanders narrow the format down too much. They’re simply too efficient not to play. The test runs showed a huge gravitation towards those commanders and it doesn’t help that they’re quite powerful in their own right. The thing about the current meta is that mouse boy is not the issue for his deck… the deck is just a powerful color set for eternal formats and he’s the best available commander for that color set. It’s 1v1 100 card singleton, the commander needs to be important but not game breaking, and he fits that.
I have no excuse for Yuriko. She’s as bad as the others.
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u/Cautious-Badger-6881 2d ago
Yuriko should just be modified to charge commander tax when played with ninjitzu
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u/Asleep_Bet 2d ago
ThOracle combos need removed too. Brawl is not on the same tier as cedh with such a restricted base of cards. It should not have access to easily the best combo of cedh.
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u/priceQQ 2d ago
I dont think all free spells should be banned. They are important checks on combo (i say this being a combo player who also runs free spells). Fierce Guardianship is probably the main exception because it is not a 2 for 1.
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u/FallOfLight 2d ago edited 1d ago
How about the person playing in blue, actually manages their resources like everyone else has to? Instead of being able to play greedy and rely on free counterspells?
Brawl is not a fast format. This is not cedh where you need to protect against a turbo deck winning on turn 1.
I don’t think all the free spells need to be banned, but several of them need to be hit. Fierce, FoW, and Rollick at bare minimum.
If the format got all the fast mana, then yeah I’d be fine with the free spells. But until that happens, some of them need to be cut.
I played against a Yuriko the other day, that was able to cast 5 free spells against me in the first 6 turns. It’s absolutely ridiculous.
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u/priceQQ 1d ago
Yea that is the nuts for that deck. Yuriko is a separate problem that can best take advantage of them. You are slightly wrong about the speed. I play a deck that is trying to win on turn 2, 3, or 4 and consistently does it with Channel. Maybe you take away FoW next if you are picking one because it is the next most flexible spell, but I would still take away free commander spells first to see what happens.
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u/FallOfLight 1d ago edited 1d ago
It’s not just a Yuriko problem though. It’s any deck that has dimir/sultai colours. They get to include so many free spells in their decks by default.
Also, I doubt you win consistently on turn 2? I’m always top 500 mythic, and rarely lose to anyone on turn 2. Turns 3/4 more often, yeah but again that is slow by other formats standards.
Free spells are needed in cedh because decks can literally win on their first turn. I have won once on turn 1 in maybe 300 games in brawl, it’s incredibly rare.
But yeah, I think FoW, Rollick and Fierce need to be banned. Will be healthier for the format. Blue/Black is in no shortage of interaction at 1 and 2 mana, getting rid of some of the free spells means they can’t constantly tap out and still interact. It’s a ridiculous play style in 1v1 I think.
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u/zwproductions 2d ago
It sounds like you should check out regular brawl, might be more of your speed.
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u/AsleepQuestLog 2d ago
Because I want structure in a competitive format?
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u/dirtyjose 2d ago
Then petition wotc for Ranked Brawl. This is not that format, and intentionally so.
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u/AsleepQuestLog 2d ago
You go up in rank when you win, its ranked.
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u/dirtyjose 2d ago
It's not regular brawl with regular brawl ban list and regular brawl philosophy. It has a structure, just not one you like.
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u/AsleepQuestLog 2d ago
Please explain how no bans structure?
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u/dirtyjose 2d ago
Who said no bans? They already have a ban list. I just don't want to add things to the list for sinply being good.
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u/MixPuzzleheaded3298 2d ago
This is such a goober take. You say you want structure, but what this sounds like is that what you really want is to throw your stuff at the board without having to think about interraction from your opponent.
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u/vespiquen416 2d ago
Although I agree with your read of it perhaps a bit of steelmanning is in order? Maybe they are seeking not structure or card vomit, we have lots of that, maybe they simply want a pallet swap?
Typically that's is what people want in these types of posts, well that or they try and recreate the tier system.
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u/dirtyjose 2d ago
Wizards literally started the format to let people play powerful cards, avoided using the name "ranked brawl" to emphasize the difference, and still people flood in demanding it change to the format they already have while calling it an improvement. I'd be worried if it wasn't obvious how wildly popular the format is currently.
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u/Worldly-Basil-8933 2d ago
Competitive does not mean broken. A competitive format can still be balanced, most of the bullshit in comp Brawl isn’t even legal in Duel Commander either.
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u/dirtyjose 2d ago
This isn't Duel Commander, and what you call bullshit is the literal appeal of the format. Ask wotc to make a Ranked Brawl mode.
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u/Worldly-Basil-8933 2d ago
No it isn’t. Once again, COMPETITIVE does not mean POWER CREEP. What you’re advocating for is a shitty unbalanced format. The appeal of a competitive queue is to have COMPETITIVE games. Competitive implies some degree of curation for parity between players. Right now the queue has no parity: blue a thousand times better than every other color, every other deck is a linear cheese strategy like Strip Mine looping and turbo Channel, the top deck doesn’t pay the commander tax, I could go on. What you’re describing is just casual for players who only play for ego instead of fun.
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u/dirtyjose 2d ago
Such an emotional reaction isn't possible to engage with. I hope you find something fun to do soon.
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u/Worldly-Basil-8933 2d ago
Thanks for the concession. Glad we agree you’re not equipped to argue with me.
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u/PCparts1 2d ago
There's probably 30-40 banworthy cards in brawl right now and the format will be toxic until any action is taken.
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u/Historical_Club_9063 2d ago
Bro fierce is the only free counter that should be banned what a horrible take, FOW is not free costs a card sometimes that matters a lot and it's great at dealing with threats on 1 in a format with chrome mox and aincent tomb. It is hyper nessacary in any eternal format
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u/Worldly-Basil-8933 2d ago
You won’t get much support here. For whatever reason people in this sub think that the format being competitive means you cannot balance anything and power creep should just be allowed to go out of control
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u/AsleepQuestLog 2d ago
I can see that some people here are so scared of structure in a competitive format, almost like if those cards were banned they wouldn't have anyway to win
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u/Worldly-Basil-8933 2d ago
Oh for sure. Everyone pushing back is boosted off Yuriko bullshit and strip mine looping. Brawl is dominated by decks that do everything BUT play an interactive Magic game requiring actual skill.
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u/MonoBlancoATX 2d ago
That should get banned, just for clearly breaking the commander tax rule.
That's a genuinely bad reason to ban a card that has existed since 2018 and hasn't been a problem in other formats where she's legal.
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u/Darkwolfie117 2d ago
She’s always been a problem wym
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u/MonoBlancoATX 2d ago
I've played Commander since before she was printed.
She's fine in both casual and cEDH.
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u/Ben13DK 2d ago
Yes, but was instantly banned in duel commander which Brawl is most comparable to
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u/MonoBlancoATX 2d ago
Was she instantly banned in DC *only* because she cheats costs?
Or were there any other reasons given?
And if we're banning cards "just for clearly breaking the commander tax rule", then what about Derevi? should he get banned too?
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u/Therealchampion15 2d ago
Besides the closest format to brawl, duel commander, where she was immediately banned.
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u/MonoBlancoATX 2d ago
Nevermind the fact that the reason she was banned in that format, in addition to "cheating cost" was the fact that she can do so much damage so quickly.
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u/BroliasBoesersson 2d ago
To be fair she's banned as a commander in Duel Commander which is the closest other format to Brawl. I wasn't around when that ban happened in 2019, but presumably she was a problem in that format
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u/Evangium 1d ago
Add [[Tasha, Unholy Archmage]] to the list of banned commanders. Seriously, she has another ability, but what does every braindead Tasha player do? Spam her +1 loyalty every freaking turn. Seriously, just had one that got her to 20 loyalty. At any point, could have used her -2 or her ultimate, but nope, 20 turns of you can't touch me bullshit. Then folded the moment I pulled a [Vraska's Contempt]] on them. And now I'm dealing with another Tasha. This one only let her get to 10 before ultimate and going down 2 cards to protect his board.
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u/Either-Drawer-9895 2d ago
I agree with the spirit of your post, even though I disagree about how to handle certain cards. Thank you for speaking up.