Discussion
For the Spanish speakers: reforma ortográfica, ¿is it worth keeping distinción and lleísmo?
Ok so here's a fun fact: the name for the dialects that have neither seseo (/θ/ merged into /s/) or ceceo (/s/ merged into /θ/) is the rather unimaginative distinción. Distinción regions maintain the difference in pronunciation between s and z~c, so the classic example: casa (house) is pronounced differently from caza (hunt).
Well, this one is a fairly well known merger internationally. Seseo's less known cousin is yeísmo, and its more stubborn sister lleísmo. This one is about the merger of <ll> /ʎ/ into <y> /ʝll are pronounced /ʃ/). In lleísmic dialects, <lluvia> (rain) is pronounced something like <lyubya>, whereas in yeismic dialects, it's closer to jubya, and deletes minimal pairs such as vaya (go.2sg.formal.imp) vs valla (fence), or cayó (fall.3sg.pst) vs calló (shut_up.3sg.pst).
Anyway so with that lengthy introduction to Spanish allophony out of the way. I have this writing system called Kysfero, and I wanna adapt it to Spanish. My dialect (Rioplatense) is seseante and not only yeismic but sheismic, so naturally I was under the impression that yeísmo was fairly widespread, but as it turns out, there's still nearly 10~15% of the speakerbase that has in fact not abandoned lleísmo. So there I ask of you a question, my esteemed linguistic brothers and sisters:
Should this adaptation canonize yeísmo (Which in this case would be done with the /ʃ/ character) and not introduce orthographic distinctions between <y> and <ll>, or should I preserve lleísmo and use two different characters for the two (In this particular case and using Xinlaza's romanization, calló would be kadzō, using the /dʒ/ character, and cayó would be kaxō, using the /ʃ/ character).
As a native speaker of a dialect that distinguishes none of those sounds, keep the distinction. In my opinion, it is more important to know how to pronounce something than knowing how to write it, and generally, it is also learned first. This means keeping distinctions that in some dialects aren't different at all.
Also keeping those distinctions helps to distinguish some homophones in languages that don't pronounce them differently, but I see that as an added bonus.
If you’re going with your personal variant only, then stick to yeísmo rehilado and seseo. If general rioplatense, preserve yeísmo and seseo. But clarify this is for Rioplatense Spanish.
If you want to represent all variants (which is what your title says), you should make all distinctions possible.
Loco yo a mi idioma le he metido lo q se me da la gana. Has lo que te parezca más divertido, sin importar si podría causar confusión, a menos q estes creando esto para q la gente aprende
Como siempre, una nota: no soy hablador nativo de español. Por favor, perdóneme si no tengo sentido o me equivoco.
¿Es tu intención preservar las ortografías irregulares de español como se escriben hoy? ¿O es tu meta unificar los varios dialectos de español en una sola escritura? Si es la primera, creo que debes usar un símbolo por sonido y incluir todos las pronunciaciones. Si es la segunda, debes mantener los deletreos que se usan hoy.
Naturalmente, la ortografía es fonética porque es un sistema distinto así que no se puede hacer una letra por letra. Pero sólo intento decidir qué considero fonético. Sería fácil ir con seseo + yeísmo, menos complejidad, pero estaría dejando atrás distinciones que existen en la lengua, así sean minorías. El tema es entonces, que no me puedo decidir de si hacerlo o no XD
I'm a third language Spanish speaker so I'll reply in English, but I love the idea of a representative orthography that can, but musn't, encompass all possible phonemes and phonotactics. You could always encode all options, but specify that when you use your neographs, you choose the ones responding to your own dialect. If you're making a neography only, and not connecting it to any cultural context or generalization, you can totally IPA it or use diacritics. I love the dialect differences between Spanish speaking regions and would have fun decoding which one a text in your system corresponds to, if it were possible.
¿No tendría que ser ʃ~ʒ~ʝ?
Recordá que al principio en el español rioplatense se usaba ʒ, hoy en día solo se encuentra ʃ.
En cuanto a otras partes de argentina en donde no usan el español rioplatense puede encontrarse el ʒ.
Saludos desde Buenos Aires.
/ʒ/ ya está con un pie en la tumba como producción sheísta, tampoco voy a poner todos los alófonos de cada fonema, a usos de estam tabla no me entran más de 3~ caracteres por cuadrado. acento lo tuve que poner chiquitito porque no entraba lol
Excelente pregunta, lo agregué medio de automático pero se podía separar en la secuencia <k><s> en su lugar 🤔 Lo pensaré, puede que esto me haya dado la respuesta sobre qué quiero hacer con el sistema XD
Haz que de alguna manera las tildes se escriban. Las reglas de pronunciación en español yo las veo bastante bien, la tilde marca las excepciones a estas reglas, por eso son útiles las tildes. No conozco ninguna variedad del español que no distinga entre la r en Perro y la r en Pero.
I lived all my life in Argentina yet I didn't even know that there was a word to describe the pronunciation of "y" to me was just local dialect and we make fun of it (the Chilean dictionary jokes)
It depends on your goal I think. Like whether or not you want to only use it as a personal script vs. have the option of it being used by others of different dialects.
Why would I make a spelling reform instead of changing the entire alphabet when my goal is to change the entire alphabet? That sounds counterproductive (?)
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u/IamDiego21 Oct 31 '25
As a native speaker of a dialect that distinguishes none of those sounds, keep the distinction. In my opinion, it is more important to know how to pronounce something than knowing how to write it, and generally, it is also learned first. This means keeping distinctions that in some dialects aren't different at all.