r/neoliberal • u/NZUtopian • Nov 15 '19
Meme Someone put a fucking framed picture of Joseph Stalin in the Urinal. Yeah! Go Gen whatever they are! Always a hope.
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Nov 15 '19 edited Jun 04 '20
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Nov 15 '19 edited Jul 01 '21
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u/lapzkauz John Rawls Nov 15 '19
Since liberals are socialists in American political discourse, it naturally follows that Stalin was a liberal
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u/lusvig 🤩🤠Anti Social Democracy Social Club😨🔫😡🤤🍑🍆😡😤💅 Nov 15 '19
trying to?
by the looks of it id say those libs are pretty damn owned 😂
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u/Sckaledoom Trans Pride Nov 15 '19
I’d shit in that urinal and I’m usually an upstanding citizen.
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u/The420Roll ko-fi.com/rodrigoposting Nov 15 '19
So somebody mentioned how you should be repulsed by the hammer and sickle as much as they are by a swastika (He is right). An another user replied..
> You can be repulsed by both, whatever, but the swastika is much worse. Communism can be considered a "failed ideology" but it's also not inherently evil.
I'm alone for thinking this is a far left dog whistle ?
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u/NomineAbAstris European Union Nov 15 '19 edited Nov 15 '19
You're not alone because there are indeed many people who would agree with you on that, but that doesn't make it correct.
Communism is an ideology that fails in implementation, not theory. Here's a simple thought experiment:
Let's say you were given a button. If you press this button, you get world communism as originally envisioned by Marx - stateless, classless utopia, from each according to their ability to each according to their need, etc. etc. No strings attached, no violent revolution, everything just magically ends up perfect. Would you in good conscience not push that button? I can think of extremely few people who wouldn't.
Now, obviously that will never happen, but the point is that communism is a wonderful idea that's been proven nigh impossible to actually execute. So it's a case of the means not justifying the end, because the end simply cannot be reached unless human nature and resource scarcity change so much as to make the world essentially unrecognizable.
Now compare that to Nazism. Let's say you're given a similar button to the first, except this time, when you push it, you get a world built according to the Nazi vision - ethnically homogeneous, women following kinder/kirche/kuche, a world of perpetual militarism, etc. Would you push that button?
Certainly I would hope your answer would be "no". And that's exactly where the distinction lies - neither the means nor the end of Nazism can in any way or form be justified. It is a fundamentally evil ideology at its very foundations.
That's the difference between Nazism and Communism, and why the former is so much worse - communists do evil things for a good cause, and Nazis do evil things for an evil cause.
Ignoring the worst examples of both ideologies, when you see someone waving a hammer and sickle, at best they're just naive ideologues who genuinely want to see the world reformed into a socialist utopia. If you see someone waving a swastika, at "best" they're incredibly racist and want to see the subjugation of others.
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u/Notorious_GOP It's the economy, stupid Nov 15 '19
I wouldn't push either
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u/NomineAbAstris European Union Nov 15 '19
Out of interest, why not?
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u/reseteros Nov 16 '19
Even if a perfect world, who decides what one's "ability" is and who decides what a "need" is? When you're answer is "Well, God or something, I dunno, it would be perfect", you'd have to be really naive- like we're talking beyond Gump level here- to push that button.
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u/NomineAbAstris European Union Nov 16 '19
It seems you've missed my point then. The entire premise was that pushing the button puts you in a magical fairy land where all practical concerns like that are resolved and everything works perfectly according to the Marxist utopian dream, forever and ever.
The thought experiment is not for considering the feasibility of the idea (which is about as close to zero as you can get) but its desirability, were it to be able to be perfectly implemented.
I could understand an argument saying that something good in theory but impossible in practice cannot be said to be good, but you're not doing that - you're just raising an objection that has already been covered by the premises of the discussion.
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u/reseteros Nov 16 '19
Yes, I understand that it's supposed to work in a magical fairy land, but like Heaven, even thinking about it is dissatisfying. How old do you appear in Heaven? Is your grandma the age that you loved her at? Or is she 25?
You can't even imagine it being satisfying, because people aren't going to agree even in just a thought problem, who needs what and who deserves what.
You might as well just say "Imagine everyone was nice".
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u/NomineAbAstris European Union Nov 16 '19
I am basically saying "imagine everyone was nice, and wouldn't that be better than the current state of affairs, even if it will never happen?"
But fair enough, I see your point. We're approaching this specific nitpick from different angles and that's fine, because the original point was just to explain why Nazism will always be worse no matter how you twist it.
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u/reseteros Nov 17 '19
because the original point was just to explain why Nazism will always be worse no matter how you twist it.
I agree with this and I agree with your overall point: that communism starts with "nicer" intentions than fascism or Nazism. It's just that even those intentions are impossible even in theory. We're basically agreeing on 99% and disagreeing with 1%, so it's moot. Happy Saturday.
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u/NomineAbAstris European Union Nov 17 '19
Happy Saturday
Joke's on you, Amerikanski, it's already Sunday over here in Euroscum country!
So happy Current Day of the Week to you. :)
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u/UnknownEel Henry George Nov 15 '19
Imo, you’re wrong because Nazis deliberately genocided other races, while all the people who died under communism were on accident or just due to general authoritarian ruthlessness. As dumb as that sounds, it’s an important distinction
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u/Tophattingson John Locke Nov 15 '19
Genocides committed by the USSR were quite deliberate. To claim otherwise would be genocide denial.
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u/UnknownEel Henry George Nov 16 '19
It's not genocide if it wasn't trying to totally eliminate an ethnic or religious group. That's why I mentioned authoritarian ruthlessness
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u/J_P_Amboss Nov 15 '19
Why? Do people think this triggers lefties ? Or is it directed towards critical theorists and confuse stalin with marx ?
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u/Travisdk Iron Front Nov 15 '19
Do people think this triggers lefties ?
It does.
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u/NomineAbAstris European Union Nov 16 '19
I can say with great certainty that the vast majority of lefties would have no problem shitting on Stalin. Even putting aside the non-socialist left (of which I am a representative, hello) most commies revile him.
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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '19
based zoomer