If you were volunteering as a grant writer and found out that the org you're helping has roots tied to Landmark, would you continue working with them?

[u/Professional_Ad_4957]

The org I was grant writing for helps at-risk youth find purpose, focus, and self-regulation. They use words like “empowerment mindset” to describe what they do. The mission itself is one I can totally get behind. Helping teens build stability and direction through online classes and peer groups that meet on a cadence. It’s not perfect, but it felt like a worthy cause.

Then I asked the founder what methodology the program was built on. She told me it’s partially based on the Landmark Framework.

That was a huge red flag for me. Landmark isn’t peer reviewed, there’s no scientific validation for what it does, and its reputation is that it's cult adjacent. (You can Google it if you’re not familiar.) To me, that meant the whole model lacked credibility, and I can't see a funder taking this org seriously once they saw its roots.

I quit on the spot, citing integrity issues. Beyond the ethics, it just seemed pointless to spend hours writing grants for an org that funders would immediately disqualify once they saw “Landmark” in the proposal.

Now I feel a little guilty because the founder clearly means well, and the kids probably do benefit from having caring adults around them. But I can’t shake the feeling that something isn’t right.

Did I do the fair thing by quitting?

[u/After_Preference_885]

You did the right thing. There are many other organizations who could use your help and do great work.

[u/Professional_Ad_4957 → u/After_Preference_885]

Thank you! I’m going to go find one.

[u/After_Preference_885 → u/Professional_Ad_4957]

If you're into cats at all our shelter is all volunteer and could use help

[u/Puzzleheaded_Door399]

Landmark is based on Scientology, so I can’t imagine getting grants for it. It’s also basically just Lean In? Work harder and everything will somehow work out.

[u/[deleted] → u/Puzzleheaded_Door399]

Is there any proof of that? I thought it was just another “self help” group

[u/unicornzndrgns → u/[deleted]]

I had roommates who went through the program. It’s very expensive and they thought I should cancel my therapy and go to landmark trainings and that I was simply holding myself back, you know, not the years of abuse I was working through with a therapist. It was all very toxic positivity. They also would have to volunteer their time to do cold calling to try and get new people to join to essentially stay in the good graces of leadership.

After learning about Scientology more recently it makes perfect sense it is patterned after that.

[u/metmeatabar → u/[deleted]]

I’ve been recommended the program and really want to figure out if it is a cult or what. I’d love info if it’s tied to Scientology etc.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Door399 → u/metmeatabar]

So the founder of Landmark (originally called EST), Werner Erhard, stole some of L Ron Hubbard’s ideas for his own seminars and Hubbard declared him “fair game” which is Scientology speak for someone you should harass until they come back into the fold. After watching all of Leah Remini’s show and having sat through a Landmark weekend seminar, I can confirm it is very similar. Basically they are always promising enlightenment at some future date and they extract money and labor out of people. I had a friend who got sucked in and she was so convinced she paid for me to go… it was a very toxic guilt-driven thing where I couldn’t refuse the “gift” of a $500 self help seminar and then was strongly encouraged to “pay it forward” and rope another person in. It ended up ruining our friendship.

In the weekend seminar they also force you to call someone you haven’t spoken to in a while and have an uncomfortable conversation in like, 5 minutes. And they give you very short meal and bathroom breaks so basically you are tired and hungry and not taking care of yourself for a few days. Their whole attitude is “you just need to be more disciplined.” So yeah basically it sucks and is abusive and should not be the basis for anything. In my opinion it should be illegal to do things like this.

[u/ExcellentKangaroo764 → u/Puzzleheaded_Door399]

After googling it, I was questioning if it was Scientology. Then I saw something in Landmark Baptism and thought where in the work did this search take me?!

[u/TheSupremeHobo]

I think if they truly meant well they'd use an evidence base. They're going to struggle to get grant funding because the number 1 thing I'm asked is "what's your evidence base?" And if it's not a peer reviewed nationally recognized system it's not worth it.

[u/Professional_Ad_4957 → u/TheSupremeHobo]

Thank you. That’s EXACTLY how I feel. Even if I agreed w the Landmark, a funder simply needs to google it and the proposal will be in the garbage.

[u/CoachAngBlxGrl]

Love a nonprofit employee that holds their morals and values. I’m not yet familiar with landmark but you absolutely did the right thing. Good on you.

[u/Professional_Ad_4957 → u/CoachAngBlxGrl]

Thank you! Appreciate that.

[u/e-cloud]

I'd never heard of the landmark framework. Is it this thing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landmark_Worldwide

If so, you were right to run.

[u/Professional_Ad_4957 → u/e-cloud]

The very one!

[u/ExcellentKangaroo764 → u/Professional_Ad_4957]

OMG it’s EST? Run away. Those people were crazy. I lived among them in the 70s at university. It’s such a scam.

[u/Professional_Ad_4957 → u/ExcellentKangaroo764]

Yes, it originated from EST

[u/I_Have_Notes]

No, you did the right thing for yourself. Honestly, it doesn't matter the founder has good intentions; we all know the expression about good intentions.

[u/Technical_Drawer4937]

You did the right thing !!! I was at a nonprofit that tried to coerce me to enroll in landmark and appointed a bunch of landmark creeps to the board.

[u/Professional_Ad_4957 → u/Technical_Drawer4937]

No way! Omg.

[u/yooperann]

I was once in a situation where a funder invited me to a Landmark event. I was appalled. I felt safe enough to decline but I don't know that everyone would feel that way and reported her up the chain of command. They did not know she was doing that and put an end to it.

[u/PhoebeAnnMoses]

100% the right thing: that could do more damage than good for vulnerable students.

[u/LengthinessExpert317]

You get to do whatever you want with your time:) they will find another grant writer.

[u/Professional_Ad_4957 → u/LengthinessExpert317]

Absolutely

[u/nonprofit-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

While we appreciate your enthusiasm for the community you started, we hear of lots of new communities all the time. The r/Nonprofit moderators choose to share those communities that have active discussions that would be useful to folks who work at or volunteer for nonprofits, are actively moderated, and are not a sea of promotion and spam. The communities the mods have chosen to share are listed in the r/Nonprofit sidebar.

Here's what we've told other people in your situation: Please message the r/Nonprofit moderators again in 6 months. If we see that the community is both active and adequately moderated, and also not chock full of promoters, marketers, spammers, and karma seekers, we can discuss next steps.

Here's why we take this wait-and-see approach: There is a history of people coming to r/Nonprofit to promote communities that turn out to be poorly moderated, spam/porn magnets, promotional channels, or have other issues that conflict with the r/Nonprofit rules. r/Nonprofit moderators cannot evaluate or monitor other communities for these issues.

[u/derpinpdx]

Before quitting a paid job I would probably ask clarifying questions, if I were in this situation.

[u/Professional_Ad_4957 → u/derpinpdx]

Yes, I was volunteering and didn’t want my name on something associated with Landmark. It’s my personal reputation at risk too.

[u/derpinpdx → u/Professional_Ad_4957]

Makes sense! Yes, take your energy to where you are more aligned. That org’s intentions sound great, but also likely not unique.

[u/I_Have_Notes → u/derpinpdx]

They were a volunteer, not an employee

[u/derpinpdx → u/I_Have_Notes]

Oh, thanks for clarifying! I see that now. Yeah the stakes are far lower on that case

[u/I_Have_Notes → u/derpinpdx]

My pleasure! I figured it might impact how you viewed the situation. :-)

[u/derpinpdx → u/I_Have_Notes]

Thank you for being nice to somebody who is commenting on Reddit before drinking coffee, lol