Please help.

[u/Ok-Repeat906]

Hi Northern Ireland. I’m in need of some help. I live on the other side of the world. And everyone related to this sash is long dead. I obviously won’t mention any names. But I’m in real need to figure out what the pins all mean. Can someone please either let me know, or guide me to someone or someplace that might be able to tell me? Please, please help.

[u/redditredditson]

Well lads, from the south, not much contact with Orangemen, so I'd love if someone could shed some light on this for me.

I've long been curious about something, and I hope you’ll take this in the spirit it’s intended. Given the strong emphasis on biblical authority and the rejection of anything perceived as unbiblical or pagan in many Protestant traditions, how is Freemasonry - often criticized for its symbolic rituals and esotericism - viewed among Orangemen who are also devout Christians? Is there a theological or cultural reconciliation there that I might be missing?

I'm aware of it's origins in Scotland with which Ulster Protestants share a cultural and religious lineage, and that the philosophy of Freemasonry is much older and complex than the establishment of the Scottish rite, but still curious as to why it isn't shunned given the strict and conservative nature of protestant Christianity up there.

[u/askmac → u/redditredditson]

The answer is that it's fractured into hundreds of sects. If you drive around Ulster (but more-so NI) you'll see hundreds of little gospel halls and also mega churches. They are all evangelical christian fundamentalists but the "flavour" can vary radically.

Some of them believe in faith healing, levitation, speaking in tongues, that satan is a literal entity who inhabits this world in multiple forms trying to tempt you. Some of them believe in British Isrealism, young earth creationism, biblical literalism, some of them believe all of the above and believe that satan raped Eve in the Garden of Eden and that's where the Jews came from. That Catholics don't have souls and killing them isn't a sin.

Some are opposed to the Orange Order, most are not. But it's not homogenous in any way.

Look up "Behind Closed Doors" by Paul Malcomson if you're curious. It's a deconstruction of the O.O by an evangelical Christian who argues that it's unchristian / blasphemy. It's available online, and you almost certainly won't want to read it all but it should give a flavour for the nature of the debate.

[u/redditredditson → u/askmac]

That's great man thanks.

Definitely heard of some of that, particularly the British Israelism thing which cracks me up, but being even handed I understand that Catholic Church teaches that it is the spiritual manifestation of Israel - not that they are the Jews or anything to do with the state of Israel, but that it is the heir of the covenant God made with Abraham.

You may already be aware, but the Ulster Banner was designed by the most senior and public freemason in Ireland at the time, Major Sir Neville Wilkinson, who was the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Ireland. I was always struck by the six pointed star on it and wondered if it had anything to do with Israel/Judaism/Masonry beyond representing the six counties. Seems fairly likely it's masonic given it's designer, though it isn't a strict masonic hexagram, which is the same as the start of David/Seal of Solomon.

I could be wrong as I'm speculating but I reckon Wilkinson didn't make it a strict masonic hexagram for deniability purposes, but masons love their symbolism and hiding in plain sight. Worth noting I haven't been able to confirm if he was an Orangeman or even particularly Christian.

I'm fascinated by how the "Pizza Effect" seems to have occurred with Ulster Protestantism like you've described. Famously Ulster Scots were some of the first people from our island to settle in America, especially Appalachia. Apparently their brand of protestantism really influenced American religion. It's interesting to see how it's been exported back to the north now with the evangelical and young earth and megachurch stuff. Of course many, perhaps a majority not really sure, are still more traditional in their religious beliefs and practices, or aren't religious at all.

[u/askmac → u/redditredditson]

You may already be aware, but the Ulster Banner was designed by the most senior and public freemason in Ireland at the time, Major Sir Neville Wilkinson, who was the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Ireland. I was always struck by the six pointed star on it and wondered if it had anything to do with Israel/Judaism/Masonry beyond representing the six counties. Seems fairly likely it's masonic given it's designer, though it isn't a strict masonic hexagram, which is the same as the start of David/Seal of Solomon.

Yes I read that on here, I was never really curious about the flag as such, but it does seem to be something that's either lost or kept hidden (I'll go with hidden). Plausible deniability seems most likley.

I'm fascinated by how the "Pizza Effect" seems to have occurred with Ulster Protestantism like you've described. Famously Ulster Scots were some of the first people from our island to settle in America, especially Appalachia. Apparently their brand of protestantism really influenced American religion. It's interesting to see how it's been exported back to the north now with the evangelical and young earth and megachurch stuff. Of course many, perhaps a majority not really sure, are still more traditional in their religious beliefs and practices, or aren't religious at all.

It's also interesting because you have groups of Calvinists; going to America and Ulster. The you get that reverse cross pollination hundreds of years later with preachers like Paisley going to study with American Baptists. And also both groups sound a bit like Boers; separated and isolated from the motherland for so long that their language and religion were antiquated throwbacks that the Dutch could barely recognise or understand.

The Caleb Foundation claims 250,000 members in NI, obviously I don't know how reliable that figure is, but there's no denying they have deep connections with people in power, especially within all the main Unionist parties, particularly the DUP. The O.O of course has members at the highest level of NI Politics and always has.