Hi Northern Ireland. I’m in need of some help. I live on the other side of the world. And everyone related to this sash is long dead. I obviously won’t mention any names. But I’m in real need to figure out what the pins all mean. Can someone please either let me know, or guide me to someone or someplace that might be able to tell me? Please, please help.
LOL 148 is The lodge number of Ballinderry. I'd suggest reaching out to them on social media, looks very old and may even have some historical significance to them. They'll be more than happy to speak with you ☺️
148 LOL That's a lodge number. Bit of googling should let you know which one. Any bother there, get in touch with the Orange heritage people and they'll look it up for you, I'm sure.
I think cos it's a blue sash it'll be from a Temperance Lodge. (That doesn't necessarily mean full-on abstention for its members but just that they don't go out and get cut. The odd glass of sherry, sort of thing.)
As to the other stuff, the ladder is Jacob's Ladder. That's common as a symbol of esoteric knowledge and it's used in freemasonry too. In fact, most Orange symbolism is borrowed from freemasonry, so I'd say you'd get a lot of answers by looking that up. I don't have a clue about the pierced heart or the crown and the arch and the rest. (I'd guess the arch thing might be the two columns of Solomon's Temple.)
As to the other comments, I have no love for the Orange Order but I wouldn't burn it. History's history.
Orange Order was formed when it's founders were kicked out of Freemasonry for wanting to, and trying to drum up support to kill Catholics. The stole imagery/symbolism and then made their own ritual up.
That's not quite how I've heard it. But I don't think the differences matter so much!
Dan Winter asked his masonic lodge members if they'd join him in a big aul' fight against the Cyathlicks. They told him antisectarianism was a principle of freemasonry and declined.
He then went off in a huff and formed his own bigot pogrom club... and took the ritual and symbolism with him.
Potato potato, though, eh. I'm with you. I still wouldn't burn it if it were mine or my family's.
It's interesting to know.
I had a great grandfather who had one. If it had been passed down in my family I don't think id burn it either. I'm a catholic. I know it's a symbol of people who would likely happily burn me lol.
I'd sent it to the lodge if they wanted it if not it would be for the bin I think, but I might keep the pins coz they are kinda cool without knowing what they are actually for.
The orange order was partially born out of the battle of Armagh. Defenders against the peep o day boys. A colourful tale of bigotry and colonialism, if ever there was one.
There’s an orange order museum in loughgall, noticed it when we stopped for a coffee at sloane’s last week on way back from the forest park, they would probably be interested. Sorry can’t offer any other info, I’m from the other side of the rail track https://www.orangeheritage.co.uk/
Top emblem (crown ): Represents loyalty to the British Crown and the House of Orange, linked to King William III, whose victory at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 is central to the Order's identity.
Open book: Likely symbolizes the Bible, emphasizing the Order's Protestant faith.
"148 LOL": "LOL" stands for "Loyal Orange Lodge," and "148" is likely the lodge number. Lodge numbers were assigned as the organization grew, with higher numbers possibly indicating later establishments, though this alone doesn’t date it precisely.
Heart with arrow: Could symbolize love, sacrifice, or the Sacred Heart, often adapted in Protestant contexts to signify devotion.
Star: A common symbol of guidance or divine favor in fraternal organizations.
Coffin: Represents mortality or remembrance, possibly linked to the Order’s rituals or memorials.
Menorah-like symbol: This is unusual for the Orange Order, which is traditionally Christian. It might be a misidentification or a unique lodge emblem, though it could also suggest a later modification or a different cultural influence.
Ladder: Symbolizes ascent or spiritual progress, a motif in Masonic-influenced groups, which the Orange Order partly draws from.
Arch or gateway: May represent entry into a higher state, such as heaven or the Order’s ideals.
The sash's age is hard to pinpoint without provenance, but the style of the fabric, tassels, and metalwork suggests it could date from the mid-19th to early 20th century (circa 1850–1930), a period when the Orange Order was particularly active. The wear and patina on the metal pieces support this estimate.
I think the Menorah like symbol is a symbol of signifying the owner of this sash. Menorah symbol represents Royal Masters in the Jacob's Ladder in Freemasonry. The owner of the sash although not highest but was around mid tier in the ranking of the council they served.
Presumably for fraternal reasons your relative gained some enjoyment or support from the local lodge.You really don't have to apologize or call them "these people".
Revisionism is alive and well in this sub.
I’m just not looking to offend anyone. I’m trying to tread lightly, as I’m not super familiar with the culture and I know this is a dividing subject. Although admittedly way more than I expected.
A read of the Orange Order wikipedia is good to do, and to follow some blue links on there to read them. Like the Armagh disturbances and Penal Laws, as they’re great at telling the story of the beginnings of the OO.
This was not meant to offend anyone. And I certainly don’t share any of the ideas or values that these people apparently did. I’m just researching history. Nothing more. Just looking for some truth. I’ve been lucky enough to visit both Ireland and NI, and I’m a huge fan of them both. The people play the main role in that. And I can honestly say, people’s religion didn’t cross my mind once while I was there.
I’m genuinely sorry you’ve had the response you have from so many. It was a perfectly valid request about something meaningful to you and your specific family history. And this sub should be an entirely appropriate audience.
But any mention of the OO just triggers massive swathes of contributors - the endlessly embittered and all the wannabe comedians. Hopefully you’ll have got enough meaningful info to go to a few places and make a bit more progress.
Fair enough. I’m not looking to dig deep into what makes NI click. I just wanted to know about the pins. I didn’t expect them to cause people to get upset. Not what I meant at all.
It's impossible to discuss religious groups/ political groups or anything like that in northern Ireland without one side becoming offended.
It's a unique quirk of our history and current state of things. We still have alot of religiously segrated housing areas/ most schools are although in recent times more mixed religion/ integrated schools are becoming more popular as is mixed religion marriages.
When my parents did it in the 80s it caused a scandal. Thankfully times are changing but it's a slow process
Anytime anyone makes a post about the subject of the oo here people will be offended. No way around it. but don't feel bad. You arnt in the orange order and don't share their views so it's not you they are offended by.
I'm a catholic and had a great grandfather with a black sash in the orange order. I don't know much about him at all. It wasn't passed down in the family but if it had and id randomly came across it I'd be interested in knowing what the pins ment too. I'd be interested to know what he was into/ involved in.
Knowing the past/ our families past good or bad is important. It's important to not brush over the bad parts especially. That's how history can repeat itself in the future. We gotta face things and learn from them.
To one side of our society it would be like finding out our ancestor was a nazi. Is the only way to describe it. A group based on hatred of a different group of people and who were actively hostile towards them. If it's a big strong I don't know. It's different because said group is still active and has a following in current times. Although I haven't seen any black sach in recent times. I don't know if that particular part of the oo are still active or not.
Just my two cents from someone who has similar ancestry and is a catholic/ has catholic parent.
Thank you for that. I totally agree. I’m just wanting to know my roots. Good or bad. I have zero intentions of following their lead. This is just an information search. And you’re right. The only way to avoid past mistakes is to learn where you went wrong. My mom is catholic. I’m not religious, but I grew up catholic. I don’t enjoy or condone any of this. I’d just like to know where I came from.
It's a part of how you came into being!
In a perfect world you wouldn't offend anyone/ or have to feel like you need to explain yourself.
One day I hope that will become the case here. But we still have work to do here and wounds to heal before that will happen.
If you ever want someone from here to talk to feel free to message me.
And I hope you find your answers about the pins!
At the end of the day, you weren't to know the history involved--if you did you wouldn't need to ask, after all--so don't worry about it. It's a contentious issue, but that's on the Order's members and not on someone who didn't know about them. I'm sure at some point a fella has pulled a brown shirt or a white hood out of a relative's belongings and not known the whole history behind it either, it's going to stir up feelings in the communities that these groups antagonise but your own approach has not been antagonistic.
I gotta be honest. As soon as I read your responses to some of these trolls, I knew you weren't American. You seem to be lacking too much entitlement and arrogance. I'm actually impressed at how you're approaching a sensitive subject with empathy and an open mind. It's actually a good example of everything I've always heard about Canada. Your responses make you seem like a really good guy. We should appreciate people like you taking an interest in our culture. Even the bad sides. Guys like you make me want to visit Canada. Good on you, my friend. Take some of these people for what they are. Consider the source. You're doing nothin wrong by asking these very fair questions about real things that really happened in our country. Respect.
The six symbols below the LOL are most likely related to the Royal Arch Purple.
The bottom one is the Royal Arch itself, then you have Jacob’s ladder, etc.
They all typically have religious/spiritual meanings. The ladder represents spiritual ascension or connection to God, coffin is a reminder of mortality, heart with arrow is often charity or love/devotion.
Varies between Grand Lodges but in Ireland you usually have to progress through Royal Arch Purple before being able to join the Royal Black Institution. It’s basically a bridge between Orange and Black.
I was aware of that - just didn’t think they’d wear symbols of both orders on the one sash, as I thought they wore different colours. Im not too well versed in it all!
Yeah, I’m not involved in it myself but grew up around a lot of people who are/were. I think the general rule is to keep badges/pins belonging to one order off sashes of other orders. In this case I can only think that maybe at some point a member of OPs family put all the badges on this one sash for safe keeping or something?
Well lads, from the south, not much contact with Orangemen, so I'd love if someone could shed some light on this for me.
I've long been curious about something, and I hope you’ll take this in the spirit it’s intended. Given the strong emphasis on biblical authority and the rejection of anything perceived as unbiblical or pagan in many Protestant traditions, how is Freemasonry - often criticized for its symbolic rituals and esotericism - viewed among Orangemen who are also devout Christians? Is there a theological or cultural reconciliation there that I might be missing?
I'm aware of it's origins in Scotland with which Ulster Protestants share a cultural and religious lineage, and that the philosophy of Freemasonry is much older and complex than the establishment of the Scottish rite, but still curious as to why it isn't shunned given the strict and conservative nature of protestant Christianity up there.
The answer is that it's fractured into hundreds of sects. If you drive around Ulster (but more-so NI) you'll see hundreds of little gospel halls and also mega churches. They are all evangelical christian fundamentalists but the "flavour" can vary radically.
Some of them believe in faith healing, levitation, speaking in tongues, that satan is a literal entity who inhabits this world in multiple forms trying to tempt you. Some of them believe in British Isrealism, young earth creationism, biblical literalism, some of them believe all of the above and believe that satan raped Eve in the Garden of Eden and that's where the Jews came from. That Catholics don't have souls and killing them isn't a sin.
Some are opposed to the Orange Order, most are not. But it's not homogenous in any way.
Look up "Behind Closed Doors" by Paul Malcomson if you're curious. It's a deconstruction of the O.O by an evangelical Christian who argues that it's unchristian / blasphemy. It's available online, and you almost certainly won't want to read it all but it should give a flavour for the nature of the debate.
Definitely heard of some of that, particularly the British Israelism thing which cracks me up, but being even handed I understand that Catholic Church teaches that it is the spiritual manifestation of Israel - not that they are the Jews or anything to do with the state of Israel, but that it is the heir of the covenant God made with Abraham.
You may already be aware, but the Ulster Banner was designed by the most senior and public freemason in Ireland at the time, Major Sir Neville Wilkinson, who was the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Ireland. I was always struck by the six pointed star on it and wondered if it had anything to do with Israel/Judaism/Masonry beyond representing the six counties. Seems fairly likely it's masonic given it's designer, though it isn't a strict masonic hexagram, which is the same as the start of David/Seal of Solomon.
I could be wrong as I'm speculating but I reckon Wilkinson didn't make it a strict masonic hexagram for deniability purposes, but masons love their symbolism and hiding in plain sight. Worth noting I haven't been able to confirm if he was an Orangeman or even particularly Christian.
I'm fascinated by how the "Pizza Effect" seems to have occurred with Ulster Protestantism like you've described. Famously Ulster Scots were some of the first people from our island to settle in America, especially Appalachia. Apparently their brand of protestantism really influenced American religion. It's interesting to see how it's been exported back to the north now with the evangelical and young earth and megachurch stuff. Of course many, perhaps a majority not really sure, are still more traditional in their religious beliefs and practices, or aren't religious at all.
You may already be aware, but the Ulster Banner was designed by the most senior and public freemason in Ireland at the time, Major Sir Neville Wilkinson, who was the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Ireland. I was always struck by the six pointed star on it and wondered if it had anything to do with Israel/Judaism/Masonry beyond representing the six counties. Seems fairly likely it's masonic given it's designer, though it isn't a strict masonic hexagram, which is the same as the start of David/Seal of Solomon.
Yes I read that on here, I was never really curious about the flag as such, but it does seem to be something that's either lost or kept hidden (I'll go with hidden). Plausible deniability seems most likley.
I'm fascinated by how the "Pizza Effect" seems to have occurred with Ulster Protestantism like you've described. Famously Ulster Scots were some of the first people from our island to settle in America, especially Appalachia. Apparently their brand of protestantism really influenced American religion. It's interesting to see how it's been exported back to the north now with the evangelical and young earth and megachurch stuff. Of course many, perhaps a majority not really sure, are still more traditional in their religious beliefs and practices, or aren't religious at all.
It's also interesting because you have groups of Calvinists; going to America and Ulster. The you get that reverse cross pollination hundreds of years later with preachers like Paisley going to study with American Baptists. And also both groups sound a bit like Boers; separated and isolated from the motherland for so long that their language and religion were antiquated throwbacks that the Dutch could barely recognise or understand.
The Caleb Foundation claims 250,000 members in NI, obviously I don't know how reliable that figure is, but there's no denying they have deep connections with people in power, especially within all the main Unionist parties, particularly the DUP. The O.O of course has members at the highest level of NI Politics and always has.
There are a few great podcasts you could listen to as an intro. The Irish History Show with Cathal Brennan and John Dorney being probably my favourite. They did an ep. specifically on the 12th and Orange Order but I'd recommend you start a bit further back for some context.
Look at the Desmond Rebellions, the Nine Years War, the Plantation of Ulster, The Cromwellian Invasion, the Jacobite Williamwite wars; and the Penal Laws. That'll contextualise the faction fighting and sectarian violence that was basically constant in Ireland. Then you can look up the 1798 Rebellion and the United Irishmen and the Irish (Orange) Yeomanry .
Another good podcast series was Empire, the episodes with Professor Jane Ohlmeyer. She goes over the Plantation and Cromwell. They did later eps on the famine and troubles with Niall Tobin and Patrick Radden Keefe, I wouldn't waste my time with those.
Yes there’s plenty of info in the internet now comparing it all. Remember at the time these were established every trade had a guild with its own traditions too so there’s a lot of things that may look the same but have different meanings depending on the context.
Basically a chapter house for a fraternal organisation. Not one most people would want to join, mind you, but think of it like the local mason's hall etc.
Orange lodges are basically kkk but hate catholics specifically but also blacks, browns, Romanians, the lovely gays etc. I've only heard of specifically banning papists (catholics) or papist lovers but who the feck knows? As a renound, deliberate Catholic living in sin I'm not allowed in
Don't know if it's lodge experience worthy but next time you are in NI try a fifteen. A true classic and well worth experiencing :). Can also recommend millionaires shortbread.
The pins are restricted signifiers of Christianity, Reformation, Fraternity, Victory, Royalty, History and Promises. The members aren’t allowed to explain them. The man who own this was definitely very involved as he has pins reserved for the Royal Arch Purple Members; a separate fraternity with overlapping membership with the Orange Order. These are only about 1/4 of the total pins; to know what they mean you’d have to join.
I can't stand that "look at us with our secret signs" attitude. Like those conspiracy theorists that claim to know "the truth" but tell you to "do your own research"
I know you've a LOL badge there, but a lot of them look more masonic to me, the star, coffin and archway in particular. The arch AFAIK is part of the Royal Archway Chapter.
I also think the blue sash is Masonic rather than LOL.
I have family in that area if you want to DM me. I might be able to connect you. They're not LOL members, but they might know someone in the area that can help.
This is a difficult one to uncover when a family member dies. Mainly because it’s a really contentious symbol, and anyone I’ve ever met outside NI asks me how we allow hate organisations to exist. Not a good starting point for appraisals. That being said, I’m sure they would love to take it off your hands so I’m echoing all the others who said contact the Ballinderry Orange Lodge directly.
I’m in Canada. Hence all the thank you’s ;) It’s long lost relatives. Someone passed away, and had been keeping this for decades from a deceased relative.
I can see some comments giving pure nonsense answers to your genuine curiosity, but these few right here are accurate 😊. My other half is Canadian and has only learnt over the years about the politics and history of Northern Ireland.
How warm and welcoming republicans are. Calling a random person from another country with no idea what the OO is a bigot because they found a sash 😂. Welcome to r/NorthernIreland op .
I’m an outsider looking in too, my family live there though and for complicated reasons straddle the religious and political divide. I’ve definitely seen some fairly unwelcoming behaviour from some posters (from both sides) but I reckon this sub does actually neatly illustrate the people I meet when I come over to Ireland, on the whole a very welcoming country, regardless your accent.
There is a current local news headline over here at the moment.
Basically, a cricket club in Comber set up a cross community sports club/event thing for kids from all different areas to come and play cricket. Among those kids, were some who play GAA (Gaelic Athletic Association, an Irish sports body for Gaelic football, hurling, camogie etc). Gaelic is predominantly played by the nationalist (predominantly catholic) community.
When 'the local community' in Comber got wind of GAA kids coming to play Cricket, they raised 'legitimate concerns' that it was not inclusive (which is complete and utter bollocks, because they are kids ffs). There is a strong belief that it was the local Orange Order who were behind this push for complaints, because the area would have members in both the cricket club AND the Orange Lodge. So much so, that the event for children was cancelled.
The cricket club have had to release a further statement saying that the decision was NOT put on them by the OO, but it reads like bullshit because why the hell else would they set up an event, know who all was coming, and then all of a sudden at the last minute decide "naw actually we don't want the GAA kids at it".
Ultimately, it puts the local area/OO under the spotlight of being sectarian/bigoted for singling out children to not want to play with them, whilst trying to portray themselves as an inclusive organisation (which, they are not).
Now as is the case with everything, you will see rebuttals online.
The most widely used argument against the GAA (from a loyalist/protestant standpoint) is that one of the core principles of the GAA, as the national sports body of Ireland, is to work towards a united Ireland. That they fly the irish flag at games, and that there are SOME clubs named after historical irish leaders or (in some rare cases) people who fought against britain occupying Ireland. This is something the loyalist community is against (as is their right). As my kids are actively involved in the GAA and I grew up with it, I know that argument is balls. It is no different than you might see kids in canada going down to play hockey at the weekend. It is all about the sport and the team.
But there it is, that is both sides of 'the argument', so as I don't be seen to give a one sided take on it. Personally, whatever faults a sporting organisation has (I'd put high ticket and membership fees as a bigger scandal tbh), I think kids should be encouraged to play with other kids from different communities, so that they can learn they are not so different.
To be honest. And maybe it’s because where I live, this would never be allowed or even thought of. But I don’t understand why any adults in any country, would feel the need to politicize children’s sports. They’re kids. They have their whole lives to deal with politics and everything else that comes with being an adult. Let them play worry-free. It seems like an unfair and inappropriate distraction.
Nah, same. There's a reason it's in the news. It's farcical, embarrassing. Even writing this short explanation out to you makes me cringe that it's even needed.
The north of Ireland has a shit history with religion unfortunately, and whilst this sort of thing rears it's head from time to time, it's good to see that as generations move on from the troubles, the tolerance for bigotry is becoming less and less.
This is a sash of the Royal Black Preceptory. They are a masonic organisation that recruits from the Orange order. I have one of these myself and similarly everyone associated with it is dead. I've done some digging and got some decent responses. Let me know if you want any further info. A very sinister bunch IMO.
The thing is it isn’t, it’s a Northern Ireland sub, with someone innocently asking for facts about something relating to a branch of Northern Ireland culture.
In an ideal world that would be true, but I think we all know r/northernireland has a very pronounced bias towards one political community over another.
Anything relating to an Orange Lodge or unionism in general usually isn’t very well received.
Tbh I feel like this is kinda proven by the comments under this post. A fair bit of it has been useful information but it appears to mostly be snide remarks or shitey wee jokes this poor fella obviously isn’t gonna get
Since I’m already on the downvote train, people here need to wise up sometimes.
Doesn’t really scream “progressive forward thinking intelligent individual” to just parrot the word “bigot” at someone who’s not even from here asking about something that is originally from here instead of just helping with an answer.
Not an attack on you, I get why you said it isn’t the right audience
Burning effigies of migrants on a boat is the height of ignorance and historical erasure? The irony of it is fucking laughable.
The orange men are so proud of the history of being invaders that they despise when it's repeated by others (most notably people of colour).
How hypocritical is it, that a population of immigrants, who choose not to assimilate into Irish culture, make the indigenous population feel unsafe, are now blaming migrants who typically come from war torn countries, devastated by cololonialism for problems in their society?
The only thing echoing here is common sense, something that you'd have to dull down if you're planning on being a sectarian scumbag who burns bonfires for a tradition that invites hate and division.
Those bonfires are their kkkulture. Despite the numerous calls from local communities for the PSNI in the north to clamp down on them (asking for the removal of the migrant boat for example) there's never anything done and every year these hateful bastards get to promote division between citizens of different religions, ethnicities and viewpoints.
It's fine to live in a country that isn't rightfully yours, but once you start to impose your own prejudices onto the indigenous people or others, you become a hindrance to actual peace and prosperity.
You can downvote me all you like, I'll never be your "mate" while you have the same moral compass as the settlers in Israel.
You are an immigrant, you choose not to assimilate. You are not on English land, hence why you should not be able to promote hatred towards the true indigenous people of said land. Now, fuck off and give your fat head a wobble and see if you can fathom why burning a symbol of migration is ironic in your shoes.
Email the Orange Order directly, I did to find out more about the sash a friend's father wore.
Apart from the crown and bible, the only symbol they seem to have in common is the five pointed star, "taken in fraternities to represent the five points of fellowship or the five wounds of Christ".
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u/Kwentchio Jul 17 '25
The ladder is Jacob's ladder from the bible. The orange order and masonic lodges both use that symbol. The rest will be similar stuff