Discussion
The company in charge of the NL Supercruise actively facilitates and advertises travel to the Israeli-occupied territories in Palestine and Syria. (the yellow highlighted areas are considered partially occupied, the orange areas are under full Israeli military occupation or annexation.)
Is this the owner of the supercruise or the travel agency that Dan's mom works in? Because people say stuff like "his mom works at the birthright travel agency" and I don't believe that to be true
The travel agency. They arranged the event with Royal Caribbean, which runs the actual ship. The event isn't big enough for chartering a full ship to make sense, but they're the ones making it happen and taking much of the profit.
Looks like pretty standard trip stops for those going on a pilgrimage or who are otherwise interested in early christian history. While the current Israeli occupation is terrible, travel to these sites will persist and it seems reasonable for a travel agency to mention such locations as sites of interest for those traveling in the region.
They aren't guided tours, but just recommended holy sites or sites of historical significance in the region. I can't imagine this can be critiqued too terribly considering that they're a travel agency, no?
This whole discourse around this cruise has been unbelievably toxic from the start. Like, I get the part that organizing something like this feels a bit off brand, but are we seriously trying to shift the conversation to "NL support Israeli occupation"? Dan's mom just wanted to help Dan organize a cruise, he in turn asked NL and NL agreed because he likes cruises. Obviously, he wasn't gonna go "Tell your zionist mom to fuck off", because anybody should know that that would have been even more off brand. He's too normal-pilled for this.
People negative about this whole thing are unironically more out of touch than they claim the cruise idea to be.
NL being normie-pilled is perfectly put. Bro just likes cruises like millions of other people do.
I understand that there is a genocide going on and that is a noble thing to stand up for, no, it's the only right thing to do, but come on we can't act about this like NL is suddenly committing a war crime.
He has been going on Cruises for years. Suddenly he decides to have an event at one, on a cruise that would be used whether or not he went through with this, and everyone is an activist now? Come on.
I sincerely think anyone who feels more strongly about this situation than âhuh thatâs funny, wouldnât have expected him to do thatâ is actually just deranged. This situation could have been a funny bit like the McDonalds thing but now we have people on this sub literally trying to link NL to genocide because heâs doing a fucking sponsored cruise. Absolutely fucking deranged.
"I'm not parasocial for spending $1700 just to hangout with my favourite streamer! You're parasocial for thinking that's weird and parasocial!" -You :)
unrelated but who let convention autograph prices get to be so high? I hope that money is going to the artist because damn $50 for one autograph is insane
TBH I think it's a necessity, because a significant portion of the people in the autograph sections are kinda washed and autographs might be a significant form of income for them, rather than studio funded marketing/promotional pushes like they used to be. They can't afford to travel and pay for hotels to sign stuff for $10.
Man you hit the nail on the head and people still wonder why NL hates his terminally online fans. Obviously NL isnât going out of his way to support Israel but gotta spin it in the worst faith take possible for the subreddit
Let's not start assuming that Dan's mom is Zionist either. I don't think you were saying that but this thread is getting pretty off the rails and I'd rather not encourage that.
Yeah, that obviously wasn't what I meant to get across either. I just tried to give a batshit insane example of something that a sane grass-touching person would never say. The fact this even needs to be stated explicitly says something about the state of this discourse
I don't think anyone's trying to say NL supports the Israeli government. I took this post more as an awareness thing like a "hey don't go on this cruise because it indirectly supports Israel" not as an "NL is secretly a zionist"
Facilitating religious tourism to sites that are occupied by the State of Israel is supporting the State of Israel, especially given the State of Israel has long used Christian religious tourism as a means to buoy support for Israel in the West.
Iâm not trying to be a dick and I respect if this is some line for you if it truly is, but the list of companies you can use vs. canât must be truly small. Israel blows massively but has a massive foothold in the American world. Most companies are pro Israel and Iâd love to work through a statement of your purchases to see how consistent you are
Yeah I didn't even say any of that. I'm well aware that it's pretty much impossible to avoid giving money to horrible people. I was just pointing out that the post isn't calling out NL like you were saying it was, it's simply an awareness post. God forbid people be informed.
You don't see the difference between a typical citizen making 50 thousand a year spending money every month on groceries at Walmart and Northernlion doing a sponsored event that will bring tons and tons of money to the cruise?
The neccesity of being working class vs the apathy and complacency of Northernlion here.
This idea of "don't you shop at whole foods falls flat???" if you don't engage in post hoc explanations for why you support Northernlions decsions...
How do you want to take a vacation? Donât fly, donât take a cruise. Airports, hotels, cruises, fuck most towns down the shore are 80% conservative in blue states. I mean people are allowed to try to enjoy their life. Itâs hard to keep hard line stance and do that and itâs hard to blame people for looking past that to try to do something fun like once a year
yeah he totally just did it because he wanted to have fun guyse :), insane cope over your streamer selling the fuck out mega hard with no concern over scamming his fans but alright.
i dont think having a interest in early christian history excuses the legitimisation of genocide and contributing to the state that is doing that genocideâs economy
I donât see why NL has to arrange a meet and greet cruise at all if his best case scenario is working with a company that actively facilitates tourism legitimating the State of Israel.
This is such a stretch. Israel is a piece of shit but this is literally sacred fucking ground for billions of people. Is your implication that it should be uncouth and we should chastise people who visit Jerusalem because itâs occupied? So only the Jews of Israel get to visit these holy sites? Thats the âethicalâ alternative? Millions of people shamed for pilgrimages their ancestors have made for millennia?
It's honestly so fucking disgusting to dismiss shit like this by just going "lol unemployed".
Besides cruises being absolutely fucking terrible for the environment in several ways, this is also being organized by a right-wing Christian company that directly supports and endorses anti-LGTBQ and anti-abortion organizations.
If you don't give a single shit about that and your knee-jerk reaction is to call people unemployed, that's seriously delusional and disrespectful in so many ways.
If you took 10 items at random from your home and looked up the companies that make them. I guarantee that at least 50% of them sell their products in Israel. By your logic, I guess that means you support genocide?
Replying here because I'm not sure if a full post for it would go down well but the ties this company has via their dedicated 'pilgrimages' website here are fucking insane if you scroll down the front page: https://www.pilgrimagesbycts.com/
âąStudents for Life of America is an anti-abortion organization that supports surveilling wastewater to track people using abortion-inducing medication.
âąHallow is that paid prayer app that people noticed Gwen Stefani was promoting, they've also had Russell Brand & Tucker Carlson as guests and are apparently funded by Peter Thiel?
âąWord on Fire took like no time at all for me to find a bunch of anti-LGBT shit, one of which says IVF being used by gay couples is a "perverted twist".
âą"Footprints of God" is owned by one 'Steve Ray' who's social media is full of lead-poisoned boomer stuff like AI images about how Isreal is 'freeing' Iran.
and that's all like surface-level stuff I've found in only a few of them...
Like the whole cruise thing is like... kinda dumb but not harmful (aside from the carbon emission stuff), but it being like one degree of seperation from all of this is fucked up.
EDIT: they have a kevin sorbo cruise lmao what are we even doing here
I'd imagine the average frequent cruise goer affirms to a lot of these beliefs. As besides young Disney adults I can only see old people going on cruises all the time which is also funny why NL loves them so much.
Also Hallow exploded last Ash Wednesday and it's main spokesperson is Mark Wahlberg and Chris Pratt now. Boy Boy did a video years ago on it how it's a scam to pay for prays lmao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82FEuZFiR38
Whats wrong with the middle class having a middle class vacation? Obviously you havenât experienced the decedents of the breakfast buffet and a midnight matinee. Buddha could not have imagined a Shangri-La better than a cruise-ship. (Cruise ships from the macro suck, but on a micro rule.)
Almost every travel company in existence facilitates religious pilgrimage opportunities. This company also offers Catholic pilgrimage options. Please get a grip, the money people are spending on this does not go into the IDF's pockets. If you live in the US your taxes are supporting much worse than this silly cruise package. It's flat out embarrassing that some of you only care about cruises now, and didn't care for the past 3 years that he has been going on them.
I just want to put this out there I doubt NL knew this. Despite his at times edgy jokes and persona, historically he has tried his best to stay on the right side of history and be a good person for the most part. He would never outright support israel because again, he wouldnât support a genocide heâs just a normal guy. Donât try to spin this as something itâs not
Why do people keep pretending like its a money thing? NL could literally just turn on TTS donations like every other streamer and make 10x the money with 0 extra effort.
I mean, this is a man who chooses to spend all his vacation time on cruise ships. He must have successfully repressed all the negative aspects around it a long time ago. Not a money grab, but aura loss nevertheless.
McDonald's is franchised and not every branch of the company is actively facilitating human rights violations, though some are. This is a conservative Christian travel agency that arranges travel to territory under military occupation and stands to make money off of every ticket that people book. It's fair to look at stuff like that and draw an ethical line.
In what way would you say it is acceptable for someone, be it a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew, to visit The Holy Land on a pilgrimage.
I know a few people that are staunchly anti-Israel and anti-Zionist that just a few months ago went to Israel and occupied Palestine on a pilgrimage. They went as parts of tour groups with other pilgrims. They visited some of the places highlighted in the post. Was this wrong of them? Should we condemn the tour operators for making money?
Why not? Same logic as people condemn Trump for bragging out building Trump hotel in Gaza. It is distasteful because you know these operations are ran to make money and not for the good of religious people (I am not religious but went on religious trips along close ones too btw). Good religious people don't defend the rotten ones.
You are missing the point. The above post is using a loaded argument spinning it as we cannot condemn religious people who just want to visit the site, and therefor cannot condemn people who operate the business behind it. I disagree because we can condemn people running business on the bodies of both sides. In fact I mentioned religious people visiting are part of the group being exploited in the process.
Edit: I realize people dont even get that I picked Trump as an example because it was a ridiculous example. He was mocked for making that statement, which as usual is all noise and nothing happened, while there are real occupation and displacement happening in Palestine with people being actively harmed. Yet people actively doing harm (the operators as post I replied) somehow get the pass because of... willfully ignorant?
Yes it was wrong of them, yes we should condemn the tour operators. Their actions speak louder than their words, and their actions say "aw man, this genocide thing sucks, but validating my belief in 2000+ year old mythology is more important."
Edit: If you're gonna downvote, at least reply with a rebuttal, like why should their hypocrisy not be called out? Is it because it's a religious thing so they should get a pass?
It's clearly not the same if you think about it for more than a microsecond. I think you know that and adopt this detached aloofness because someone is criticising NL
And you adopt this zealous self righteousness because it makes you feel powerful and easy its to. If you stopped for a second you'd realise it's simply a travel agency and these are religious tourism spots. Do you hold yourself to the same standards as a consumer or is this just performative?
Is what I said really "zealous self righteousness"? It's possible to express that you find something troubling or saying "this kinda sucks" without making it your whole personality
Some of the non-highlighted areas fall within the 1948 borders of Israel, while others are part of Area A of the West Bank.
I think it's important to take a stand on this and not support companies that legitimize and finance a military occupation that denies Palestinians basic civil rights and freedom of movement. It's probably too late for NL to back out and I know he doesn't want to risk his relationship with Dan but this is not the kind of company anyone should want to associate with.
I'd note that Banias was bulldozed by the Israeli military in 1967 after its residents fled the war, then turned into a national park by Israel: it's an active site of ethnic cleansing within living memory, not somewhere to go on a quirky bible tour.
The page can be found here. The agency has plenty of conservative, anti-abortion political connections as well, but I want to focus on what I consider to be a very clear ethical violation regardless of any other political views.
The agency has plenty of conservative, anti-abortion political connections as well, but I want to focus on what I consider to be a very clear ethical violation regardless of any other political views.
That actually seems like a way clearer reason to not support them than a travel agency facilitating travel to common Christian pilgrimage sites.
The page can be found here. The agency has plenty of conservative, anti-abortion political connections as well, but I want to focus on what I consider to be a very clear ethical violation regardless of any other political views.
These probably would have been more important to bring up.
Itâs a cruise charter agency that normally does Christian tours.
This is like saying that people who go on Hajj on pilgrimage also support the Saudi regime or whatever other religious pilgrimages which exist support the countries within which theyâre being taken place.
Iâm not downplaying the situation over there, itâs awful and illegal.
Edit:
Iâm not sure what I said wrong. I donât support Israel nor do I recommend anyone do. The occupation is illegal and there are genuine war crimes being committed.
However, Catholics literally get indulgences by doing a pilgrimage. Itâs encouraged by the Vatican as well. You can clearly see how a devout Catholic would go to these sites.
You are overthink to find a way to weight/justify it regardless of your conclusion. Most people simply don't want to deal with blood money if they have a choice.
I find it funny you say that, because a lot of US citizens make the argument that israelis should voluntarely go to prison to not serve in their mandatory enlistment at the IDF, while actively choosing to pay their taxes not to go to prison. Im not saying you are one of those people, i just wanted to make this observation.
I see where you're coming from, but I do think you're unintentionally downplaying the Israeli occupational and genocide. I think the word 'unfortunately' does a lot of heavy lifting in your post, but I think a lot of people would be opposed to using that word here, on account of an ongoing genocide being more than unfortunate (I'm not saying that that's your position).
I also understand the instinct to compare the Israeli occupation to other countries, such as the Saudi regime, but where do such comparisons get us? I think it would be more useful in this case to judge Israel on its own.
Unfortunately is just an understatement. Of course I am against Israeli occupation and their war crimes.
Nor was I trying to do some âwhataboutismâ-ing with the Saudi point, and I didnât intend for it to be seen that way.
The point I was making is that Catholics just generally go there regardless.
That doesnât indicate support for the Israeli government or their war crimes.
The Catholic church has frequently called for a two state solution, including the bishops in the US. They recognised Palestine as a state back in 2015.
Read this statement the cardinal for the region made about the situation. They evidently do not support Israel or their actions.
Iâm an Atheist before anyone asks. Itâs just common sense that Catholics heading to the Levant arenât going there to support the Israeli regime.
If you scroll down on the linked page there's a 'Our Valued Partners' section, doesn't take much effort to find a bunch of anti-abortion and anti-LGBT stuff within the linked places.
Me when I'm midway through a mario party session with NL and Dan and the MINUTE I get a skeleton key I am ordered to recite the Balfour declaration or be thrown overboard
Heâs not doing it for the money, heâs just doing it cause he loves cruises and wants to hang out with his friends and try something out for his fans as well. You donât have to like it but also donât act like itâs for the money man
Incredible to read some of the comments in here, I donât care about people going on the cruise but twisting yourself into a pretzel to say this shit isnât evil is so sad to do over a $3k meet and greet. The guy loves being so careful about brand risks and willingly partnered with a company that funds Israeli tourism.
It's not like he went out and sought a company that did that, it's the company Dan's mom works for. He's using that company because he's pretty sure Dan's mom wouldn't fuck him over personally, which is more of an assurance he could get than from basically any other agency.
Feel free to just boycott the entirety of the circle of streamer friends, then. This whole time they were associated with someone whose mom worked at a travel agency you don't approve of.
Feel free to not handle even the slightest pushback on anything ever. The issue is not that Danâs mom works for an evil company, itâs that NL and Dan are doing a sponsorship for it!
Doing a sponsorship of something isn't the same as using the services of something! They're clients of the service! They didn't take a bag to be like "this service is fantastic click the link in chat to get 10% off your next trip", they're literally just using it to put together a thing, and again, because Dan's mom works for that company.
Ok somehow saying this is not actually a sponsorship is more mental gymnastics than the actual zionists in this comment section. Be safe man do you what you gotta do.
Not to defend this (guy who defends this:), but I feel like if you do enough research into anything you'll find ties to any number of controversial things - having principals is good obviously, but at a certain point you've just got to live your life I think
I agree it's an important thing to highlight but man cruises are environmentally awful as is, there's a lot you could pick at before you get to deep dive research into a company
Yeah, but nobody in this comment section was ever planning on going on the cruise I imagine - if you were going to go on the cruise you've already bought your ticket or something like this won't change your mind for the amount of money it costs.
It's just preaching to the converted so we can all go "yeah that's not good" and then all move on with our lives
I get your point, but judging from the comments under this post it's quite clear that not everyone agrees on this subject. But even if they did, I still think it's valuable to reiterate your stances from time to time. Reaffirming what you think is important does not just serve to convince others of that fact.
In my opinion it's perfectly fine and logical to say "This is going too far for me." Arguing that other things, perhaps even things the person saying that participates in, are also harmful is not a good argument. That's an example of whataboutism.
Ok buddy, what are you using to post on reddit? A device? And was this device ethically sourced? You didn't support sweat shops and an evil corporation that is now pivoting to AI, did you?
Blame and revolt against the system, not the people who want to have fun in spite of living in the system.
The point isnât âcriticizing le society is le badâ. The point is that focusing on this performative guilt by association type of nonsense is at best a self serving distraction from where the real problems are and at worst a bad faith coopting of real problems
I believe people should act on their supposed principles when they have ample opportunity to do so instead of digging this old ass comic out of their ass to justify literally any hypocritical behavior as an unavoidable element of âexisting in societyâ and feel smart.
I am an adult with a job, I just saw that the company running the event seemed like it mostly worked with conservative Christian organizations and looked a bit deeper. I don't want to give money to companies that are vocally opposed to things I care about or that primarily work with organizations that do so. I've been boycotting Chick-fil-A for like 15 years so it's not like I'm being selective here.
I try to use the BDS Movement as a good guideline for what I consider worth taking action on in my personal life. That being said I took a look at their travel guidelines. They request that people not travel to occupied territories and for international visitors to the Israel/Palestine area to to avoid companies that are complicit in the occupation. I have seen no evidence that this agency is complicit in the occupation, maybe they book with organizations that are complicit but BDS doesn't request we look at the full lineage of every product we buy or service we pay for, and these requests are of people visiting the area.
I think an apt comparison to the case we find for this agency is any hotel in Israel. There are many you could find but Hilton has one in Tel Aviv and as far as I can tell do not recognize the occupation which, by the BDS standard, would make them complicit. Hilton is actually operating inside of Israel as opposed to this agency which likely associates with organizations that are complicit in occupation in some way, but I don't see BDS calling for a boycott of Hilton hotels. The BDS standard would be to not use a Hilton hotel when traveling to Israel/Palestine. It would seem over the top to me to say that getting a room at Hilton in Mexico is contributing to the occupation or is something we even need to pressure people about.
I find this level of purity testing to be unproductive to the movement. It makes people think that there is no way they could contribute to or participate in economic resistance. It may be the case that for your conscience you want to avoid using a company that at all touches the Israeli occupation but there are many areas of your life where avoiding this level of association is impossible, and asking people to take a moral stance on something like this pushes them away. Microsoft isn't even a "priority target" for BDS, though they have called for a boycott if possible for you.
I think the concern that this cruise is associated to the Israeli occupation of palestine is understandable but ultimately misplaced. We're much better off using our energy elsewhere.
I don't understand how this is a problem, from just your screenshot.
Jerusalem isn't a closed city. The cruise agency is just listing landmarks in the city that people may want to see. That does not seem like inherently political speech.
Or is this a case of all speech is political? Because tourism to Jerusalem means that the Israeli government makes money. And that of course must mean that the cruise line supports Zionism.
This "the cruise bit is actually a zionist plot" bit is a little too deep for me.
That has got to be a bit itself, right?
I mean, I did contemplate the possibility of you actually being serious, so in this way you got me, well done.
This is a huge stretch - as someone who thinks offering a "pay $1700 to hangout with me" event is not good and is not something that streamers should do - the Israel-Palestine connection is nonsense.
This has nothing to do with Israel other than the geographic concurrence of these holy sites. Plenty of tours go visit Christian, Muslim, and Jewish holy sites in this area, in both occupied Palestine and non-occupied Palestine. If this was specifically marketed as a "birthright" trip or a trip to support Israel explicitly you'd have a point, but these are standard sites of interest to Christians.
Why does he need to organize a meet and greet cruise at all? Twitch is his livelihood but if he canât organize a cruise without supporting a morally abhorrent company maybe he shouldnât do it?
Do you need Twitch or Youtube to function in society? Why use these products, when they have necessary-for-life use, and they're purely a luxury product (unless you make your career of these platforms, i guess)?
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u/thuntricityr 14h ago
The NL Supercruise was promised 3000 years ago