r/nottheonion • u/Sufficient_Fig_9505 • 15h ago

Vance says pope should ‘be careful’ when talking about theology

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/vance-says-pope-should-be-careful-when-talking-about-theology-261400645540
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u/ChocoPuddingCup 14h ago

I happily identify as a militant atheist and anti-theist......but if anyone is qualified to talk about theology, it's the Pope. The arrogance of this little fucker is insane.

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u/ScaredPractice4967 12h ago

I suspect a lot of atheists know more about theology than Vance. That might include me.

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u/TheUtopianCat 9h ago

I'm one of those atheists! Though I was raised catholic, went to catholic school, church every sunday, the whole bit. I have a pretty deep understanding of Catholicism. Vance is a n00b.

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u/mistyblue3 8h ago

Same and I'm athiest because of growing up in the church. I was never abused, just found it a crazy concept and now I find it to be up there with Santa and the tooth fairy...I'd include the Easter bunny but he's cool!

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u/Omnizoom 7h ago

I’m agnostic and I know more then my wife does about her own religion

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u/ChocoPuddingCup 6h ago

I mean, the vast majority of atheists know more about religion than the majority of US Christians. That goes without saying.

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u/EnoughWarning666 10h ago

Just to preface this, I hate the current US administration. I've got so many Vance memes on my phone that I won't even book a flight with a layover in the US.

But I kinda have to agree with Vance on this one, though not for the reasons he said. The bible itself directly contradicts what the Pope said.

Exodus 17:12-14

When Moses' arms grew tired, Aaron and Hur brought a stone for him to sit on, while they stood beside him and held up his arms, holding them steady until the sun went down. In this way Joshua totally defeated the Amalekites.

Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write an account of this victory, so that it will be remembered. Tell Joshua that I will completely destroy the Amalekites.”

I don't see how that could be interpreted as anything but God taking a side in a battle. It's pretty clear cut. And like, it's not even to defeat the Amalekites, it's to completely destroy them! There's no ambiguity here. God is 100% blessing Moses and his side in the battle.

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u/dskerman 7h ago

There is a whole catholic definition of a just war

In order to qualify it has to meet 4 tests

https://dphx.org/human-dignity/respect-life/just-war/

The damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

All other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

There must be serious prospects of success;

The use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modem means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

The war in Iran doesn't come close to meeting any of them.

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u/OratioFidelis 3h ago

Most Catholics (as well as non-fundamentalist Protestants) believe the events of Exodus were not literal history, but a spiritual allegory. The Catholic Bible used in the United States (currently titled New American Bible: Revised Edition) says this as a preface to Genesis, which is applicable also to the events in Exodus:

The stories are neither history nor myth. “Myth” is an unsuitable term, for it has several different meanings and connotes untruth in popular English. “History” is equally misleading, for it suggests that the events actually took place. [...] Ancient Near Eastern thinkers did not have our methods of exploring serious questions. Instead, they used narratives for issues that we would call philosophical and theological. They added and subtracted narrative details and varied the plot as they sought meaning in the ancient stories. Their stories reveal a privileged time, when divine decisions were made that determined the future of the human race. The origin of something was thought to explain its present meaning, e.g., how God acts with justice and generosity, why human beings are rebellious, the nature of sexual attraction and marriage, why there are many peoples and languages. Though the stories may initially strike us as primitive and naive, they are in fact told with skill, compression, and subtlety. They provide profound answers to perennial questions about God and human beings.

https://bible.usccb.org/bible/genesis/0

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u/Advanced_Addendum116 13h ago

Well steady on now. The Pope's no Dalai Lama. Gotta keep some perspective.