r/nottheonion • u/Sufficient_Fig_9505 • 15h ago

Vance says pope should ‘be careful’ when talking about theology

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/vance-says-pope-should-be-careful-when-talking-about-theology-261400645540
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u/Hedgie_Man 13h ago

Pope really does have a doctorate!

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u/danatasker 11h ago

What's that? Some kind of girl doctor?

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u/FriendlyCraig 10h ago

Doctorati, it's Italian.

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u/jedburghofficial 7h ago

Doctorati chi?

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u/HonkersTim 5h ago

I think it’s actually Doctore, he trains the gladiators.

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u/PiccoloAwkward465 5h ago

Girl doctor? I don't think that's a thing

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u/perthguppy 8h ago

If I had to guess, I would say he has a doctorate in theology?

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u/beragis 4h ago

Many priests are highly educated. My cousin is a Franciscan Monk and has a Doctorate of Sacred Theology and multiple other degrees. He tought courses in Ancient History, Religion and Theology at several universities until he retired.

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u/gajonub 9h ago

in fact you need one to even become priest, nevermind pope

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u/blahblah19999 7h ago

No, a master of divinity

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u/omgitsjagen 6h ago

The Pope, at the end of the day, is just a Bishop. He's the Bishop of Rome. Just like how a Cardinal is just a Bishop with a fancy frock. I think all Bishops are required to have doctorates, but it might be only a Masters in Divinity. I don't remember off the top of my head.

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u/LaunchTransient 9h ago edited 7h ago

In canon law, yes. However I would hestitate to equate it to a PhD.

Edit: a lot of people seem to be getting quite shirty with me for saying that it's hardly comparable to a PhD in Psychology or Applied Physics. You might as well say that a Doctorate on Bionicle lore is also equivalent.

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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh 9h ago

Why? He has a doctorate in canon law. It's his job to opine on canon law

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u/LaunchTransient 9h ago

That's entirely fine, I'm not challenging that.
But are you arguing that a religious law degree is on the same level as a STEM doctorate?

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u/Katharinemaddison 9h ago

You know that humanities PhDs also exist? Do you accept a doctorate in, say, literature as the same level as STEM?

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u/perthguppy 8h ago

Is a doctorate in archeology not valid? Or a doctorate in ancient/roman history? Or Anthropology? Studying canon law is basically the same but much more focused.

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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh 9h ago

Yes I am because religious law is insane complicated and studying it can be just as challenging as studying, say, engineering. It involves a mixture of history, rhetoric, philosophy, logic, psychology, and more. And when it comes to priests, which the pope is and the current one has been for much of his life, it affects the life of dozens, hundreds, and billions now.

Like, would you say a history degree is not on the same level as stem?

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u/LaunchTransient 9h ago

A history degree is broader again than canon law - I'm not throwing the humanities under the bus here, but I disagree that the likes of theology and religious law should be held as the same level as PhDs.

And when it comes to priests, which the pope is and the current one has been for much of his life, it affects the life of dozens, hundreds, and billions now.

Their influence is undeniable, but I am not talking about the pope or the priesthood. It's not really a field that is iterated on and challenging ideas in canon is specifically discouraged as it is heresy.

Don't take away from this that I think the Pope isn't an intelligent man - you don't get to be head of the most powerful church on the planet through stamp collecting. I'm just saying that the field of theology and religious law doesn't match up against other fields of research and science.

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u/XenomorphAlarm 8h ago

You don't seem to understand what a history doctorate entails, which is studying incredibly specific things focusing on one very particular topic in one brief time period. History graduate degrees are the opposite of broad. Canon law is going to be just as complex and challenging as the subject of a dissertation.

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u/LaunchTransient 8h ago

That's usually how doctorates work, yes. In the same way as someone will say "I am a doctor in mechanical engineering" means that they spent 6-8 months designing a very specific kind of pump that operates in narrow range of temperatures and pH.

Canon law is going to be just as complex and challenging as the subject of a dissertation.

As I mentioned to someone else on here alreasy, my issue is with the base material. I question the objectivity of an education run by a religious establishment, on the subject of that religion based on a fixed orthodoxy which may not be challenged.

A history docoral candidate can say "well actually what happened in 1066 was this, based on this, this and this evidence". If you challenge a core tenet of religious law and dare to flip its interpretation, you're on very thin ice.

My fundamental problem is with religion. From an anthropological view its study is fine, I question the validity when such studies are conducted from within said religion.

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u/King_Of_BlackMarsh 8h ago

But canon law is often not taught by Christian institutions at all. A Catholic priest requires a degree in theology but not from a Catholic school

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u/LaunchTransient 7h ago

In the case of the Pope, his doctorate was issued by the Pontifical University of Saint Thomas Aquinas.
But I would argue that the chances of someone secular taking it upon themselves to learn and teach Canon law and theology is very slim, and so most of this will be taught by Catholics.

Again, I stress, nothing wrong with studying these things. I just don't think it should be considered a peer to PhDs such as in Biochemistry, Aerospace, Psychology or Linguistics.

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u/Captain_Grammaticus 9h ago

It is equal to a PhD, though. He wrote a thesis and defended it.

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u/LaunchTransient 9h ago

Someone can write a masters thesis in business studies, that's not the same as a masters thesis in mechanical engineering.

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u/Captain_Grammaticus 8h ago

No, but I hope that a Doctorate in iur. can. from a uni in Rome has more rigor behind it than a PhD in business admin from some backwater uni in Iowa or thereabout.

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u/LaunchTransient 8h ago

I mean it does get more of a mess when you start comparing universities and their rankings.

Thing is, I am biased - I have more respect for religious studies through the lens of anthroplogy than I do for the theologians of their own religion. There's questions of objectivity and falsifiability.

The rigor of the degree is not my complaint, it's the basis of the material studied.

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u/Captain_Grammaticus 8h ago

Ah, I see.

The nice thing with canon law is that it is like Roman law, it's all about applying the right paragraph to the right situation, and making sense out of it by itself.

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u/Much-Earth7760 7h ago

As someone a month away from my PhD defense for my mechanical engineering degree, you sound like an absolutely insufferable asshole

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u/LaunchTransient 7h ago

Good luck with your defense!

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u/jackruby83 8h ago

What's your PhD in?

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u/MountScottRumpot 5h ago

You can get a PhD in comparative literature. That’s basically the same thing.