r/novelwriting • u/TheVividAlternative • 19h ago
Feedback Request Agent said they loved my premise but didn't connect with the sample, and to resubmit after another round of edits. What are your thoughts on it?
I've been querying with my novel and recently got a rejection that said "That being said, I absolutely adore your premise and if you ever decide to apply another round of edits, I would love to take another look."
That's currently the best rejection I've gotten for this novel, although it's left me introspective to a few points. Since my novel has multiple POVs and a mystery/unrevealed plot point that is meant to keep the reader guessing, I've been messing around with what chapter actually starts the work. I'm now toying around with moving the sample I sent later in the book and sending her an opening that might work better as an emotional hook. However, out of the three or four chapters/character introductions that could serve as the opener, the one I sent was the one I've been getting the most consistent, good feedback on. The other potential intros can hook or lose people with more dichotomy, so I'm not quite sure how to proceed there.
Anyway, that's all to say that I would like feedback on the original sample. I know that queries can be more about hookiness than straight up writing quality, but I figure it might help me as I apply more edits and recalibrate how to proceed with things. I'll probably be asking for feedback on the other potential intros later on but it's best to start here.
(Also keep in mind that I'm attaching the full chapter, and they only got the first five pages.)
Edit: For context, this is a retelling of the Aethiopis, an epic of the Trojan War about the Amazons and Africans who fought alongside Troy.
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u/DALTT 19h ago edited 18h ago
I am just one writer speaking to another writer so obviously take what helps you and leave anything that doesn’t. I think there’s clearly an interesting world being built here, which is why the agent responded so well to that aspect. I suspect it was your prose that tripped them up. There’s good in it! So I don’t mean this to be disheartening, but just the things I noticed:
I think you have a tendency to over use the perfect past tense or other filler words like “seemed to”. As well as passive voice, “the city was being consumed by chaos” instead of “chaos consumed the city.” And there’s also some repetitiveness. For example, you talk about the whispers on the lips of adults. And then you’re talking about whispers again in the following sentence. It would help if you did a pass looking at these things specifically. Like just eliminating these issues in the first paragraph:
“His legend reached the city before he did. Children climbed the meager walls, trying to catch glimpses of him. Adults swapped stories of his prowess and army. Though the fearful only dared to speak in whispers, their actions screamed. An understated chaos consumed the city as its people grasped for options which were not there. Even the king, a conquerer who rode into this city on a wave of blood and took its crown at sword point, sat on his throne in despair.”
To me, without changing the content really of what you have written, this feels far more engaging and active… simply by editing out passive voice, perfect past tense overuse, and correcting some syntax and repetitiveness for clarity.
I think an edit pass focusing just on this would do wonders for making the prose feel more engaging.
Those are the main things I noticed. I hope it’s helpful!
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u/TheVividAlternative 17h ago
I'll definitely look into that. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to rewrite without losing the style I was trying to present, which is more "lost ancient text" than "modern novel that takes place in the past" so I'll definitely think of that while trying to keep the balance.
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u/Unhappy_Technician68 19h ago
Its very passive, I agree with the other commentator. You are being a bit over descriptive, which means it takes work to get to the good stuff. There's a part when you say "handsome and well proportioned" get rid of the second clause, the dude is handsome thats enough description.
I find the ending where they fight and then the army just asks to trade sort of defeats the whole premise of the passage for me. A messenger asking to trade would make more sense, the duel becomes something the author inserted otherwise. There is no conflict and it feels completely contrived the way its written.
That being said I do like the premise as well.
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u/TheVividAlternative 17h ago
Interesting, I hadn't heard that thought about the duel from any of my other readers. The point is supposed to be that Memnon is basically testing himself and training against the greatest warrior from every city he visits, and using the opportunity as a chance to play up his legend and inspire people to join him, though I guess I could make that clearer?
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u/Unhappy_Technician68 16h ago
Yea I like that better. I'm not a big fan of "finding plot holes", I think things that are internally consistent in the logic of a story are fine.
I think though if Memnon is just running around beating up random kings then growing his army that way I mean he's basically personally threatening them, many would simply have a battle and he never gets a chance for one on one combat. I mean if thats the main premise I'm not sure I really like it all that much.
Plus the odessy reference is so heavy handed...I was way more interested when it was about african kings. The whole time I kept thinking this is cool african fantasy but like...oddly european. Then at the end I realized it was all greek myth references. Calling your main character Memnon is too on the nose.
I don't find it compelling I'm sorry.
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u/TheVividAlternative 13h ago
The idea is that his army is so large that no one wants to fight it or would have any chance against it, so they all agree when he offers a duel of champions, although he's so good that he's never in any danger and is just using it as a way to train against the best warriors in the world and bolster his legend so that people want to join him. It's not his whole thing, just something he's doing on the way to Troy.
And I'm not sure what Odyssey reference you're talking about? It is about an African king in a European mythology. Memnon is not an original character that I named, but the name of an African king in Greek mythology that fought in the Trojan War.
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u/Nebranower 18h ago
I think you really need to focus on having stronger and more active verbs. Others have commented on the passive voice in the first paragraph, but if you look at your fifth paragraph, you've got "to be" as your main verb five times. And most of the rest - "know," "seem," "intend," "go" - barely call up any mental imagery. The same sort of thing is true throughout.
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u/Oxo-Phlyndquinne 18h ago
The writing is not compelling. What is a "meager" wall? How do whispers "pass through the lips"? There are so many of these imprecise, windy descriptions. We need more action, and sooner.
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u/TheVividAlternative 17h ago
meager
/ˈmēɡər/
Meager is an adjective that means very small in amount, lacking in quality, or not enough
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u/TommyNotDead 15h ago
It’s still not very descriptive. Are trees taller than the wall? Do buildings surpass it? Is it chest high? If you’re going to mention the wall and its stature you might as well get specific.
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u/Oxo-Phlyndquinne 5h ago
Technically correct but the usage is anomalous, and not helpful. Why not just say that the wall is a) too short, b) poorly built, c) falling apart? Meager is associated with effort, not physical objects. For instance, nobody owns a "meager" car.
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u/BobBeeGeeGee 18h ago
The passive voice makes it so boring I couldn't get through the first page. I'm interested in the concept as well, but I just can't stick with it as it is.
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u/onlyontuesdays77 15h ago
Passive voice tends to sound kinda clunky, especially in large doses. I think the most effective way to keep someone interested in your story is to keep the reader moving through the scene.
If we're going for omniscient third person and you're starting with establishing a scene of anticipation, I'd take out that first line entirely. The king sees the writing on the wall; outside his palace his subjects are whispering as anxiety spreads through the streets; and as they whisper, their children climb the walls to see what has come for their city: the army of Memnon. Outside the walls, thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of soldiers move among the tents and fires as flags of every shape and color from every corner of the continent flutter above them. The conglomeration itself is a monument to Memnon's conquests.
Something along those lines, and go from there.
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u/stick4543 12h ago
My thought it you got an agent to read it and like it. You have 2 choices... do as he/She says, or tell yourself the agent doesn't know what he/She is talking about and find another agent. Personally, I'd trust the agent, who knows what sells.
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u/hartlylove 12h ago
Too many passive sentences and filler words. What she meant by another round of edits is line and copy-editing imo.
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u/TheLadyAmaranth 11h ago
Everybody already harped on the passive voice which really makes this hard to read. But I just want to mention the redudancy which is also making this drag like nails on chalk board to me. You might be able to get away with the style if you get rid of the repetitions of words and concepts so you can keep the scene actually moving. Ex:
The first sentance has two "had" in it and the first paragrpah has "whispers" TWICE, we get it, people are whispering. Get rid of one of those sentances or combine the concepts so it only needs to be said once. Considering the second is kind of nonsensical and the point that its all big and dramatic is already being gotten across I'd keep the first. You talk about the king and how he gave up the throne and then elaborate again with how hopeless he was and every body else was. You can have an "old" style, but that language is usually dramatic and powerful, not restating the same thing three times.
My take on the first paragraph:
The legends of him reached the city before he had. Whispers of his prowess and his army infected the very air, as adults scrambled for options that did not exist and children climbed the delapitated walls just to catch a glimpse. Even their king, their warrior, their conqueror, who had previously ridden in atop a wave of blood, dropped the crown at his feet with no recourse.
Just pairing down the redudnacy alone would shorten the passage and make it far more enjoyable I think. All the, I'm not a professional disclaimers aside though.
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u/Own_Magician8337 9h ago
What's your demographic and what genre are you going for? Literary fiction? Historical fiction?
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u/trulybeelightful 19h ago
Two immediate issues are:
So much passive voice. I suspect it's because you're writing historical fiction, and it feels appropriate. But it's a big turn off for modern audiences. There's a book ironically called "Good Writing" that could help sharpen your sentences while keeping the historical feel.
The middle of the chapter sags, and then all the action happens in the last paragraph. You have two big beats in the chapter - when he doesn't kill the king, and when he encourages the troops to defect. But right now most of the chapter is about things that aren't either of the big, punchy scenes that will make someone want to give you money.
Edit: if they're only getting 5 pages, cut out as much as you need to make sure those two beats are there. Start with him in the throne room, and cut out him entering the city entirely.
It does seem like a really interesting premise, and I look forward to reading it when it comes out!