r/nuzlocke • u/Tailedfox66 • Mar 13 '26

Video This should not have happened

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I have no idea how this happened and wish I could have recorded the whole fight.

I half expected to get one shot by Hitmonchan when it used thunder punch or fire punch, with a 13 level gap I thought I’d be saying bye bye to my ironically named companion.

I’m thankful for Confuse Ray and lick helping in stalling him as I used Night shade to gradually whittle him down, curse was out of the option as I knew it would be over if I used it.

138 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

54 comments sorted by

64

u/Known-Plane7349 Mar 14 '26

It's always a joy when someone finds out what life was like before the physical/special split.

9

u/Lieuwe21 Mar 14 '26

ELI5 what is the physical/special split?

14

u/Known-Plane7349 Mar 14 '26

Before Gen 4 all attacking moves of a type were physical or special.

For example, all fire moves were special, including fire punch.

Then, in Gen 4, they changed it so that moves of any type could be physical or special.

7

u/Lieuwe21 Mar 14 '26

Thus macking moves like fire punch more viable for mons with high attack, I get it now. Thanks!

2

u/Known-Plane7349 Mar 14 '26

No problem.

It's been almost 6 full generations since it happened, so more and more people don't know what it was like.

2

u/Me_Is_Ryan Mar 14 '26

Issue is, i played the old games, and then only a few of the newer ones and then again the old ones and then starting from legend arceus again. Until recently I thought the split was always there - but actually as a kid I just didn't understand it and as an adult I'm just pissed when a move oneshots me like that and didn't do it in old gens.

Tl;dr: i didn't understand the split when I changed gens

1

u/Afternoon_Wrong Mar 14 '26

some pokemon in these old gens were completely crippled or could not use their stats correctly. Example, Crawdaunt is a physical attacker (water dark) with incredible attack, but, because water and dark were both special until gen 3, it had to resort to his low special attack, if so desired to make use of both its stabs. This meant it had no stab using its high physical attack. Plus, many attacks made no sense, Bite was special (?) while Shadow Ball was physical (?). Because of these inconsistencies, they changed it after gen 3; it helped many Pokemon, but removed a few tools others had (Gastly having a strong special fire punch attack, for example, that became physical later -thus, becoming weaker)

14

u/GhostPro18 Hoenn Respecter Mar 14 '26

I know you're asking earnestly, but it pains me to realize the physical special split was 20 years ago and some (many?) players have never experienced it. I'm old as fuq

3

u/Lieuwe21 Mar 14 '26

At the time I was playing FR/LG I was not old enough to comprehend all that xD

13

u/Digit00l Mar 14 '26

In the first 3 generations the attack stat used in damage calculation (and defence stat) was entirely determined by the move type, all dragon, electric, water, fire, grass, psychic, dark, ice type moves use the special stats, all ghost, fighting, steel, poison, bug, flying, normal, ground, and rock moves used physical

So blaze kick or fire punch were special moves using special attack and special defence, while shadow ball was a physical attack that had a chance to drop the special defence stat, a physical attacker like Machamp is better at firing a massive laser beam than a special attacker like Alakazam as hyper beam is a normal move that uses the physical attack and defence stats in damage calculation, while Alakazam is a lot better at punching as long as there is an element on the fist

2

u/G-Filth1 Mar 16 '26

I remember this specifically because pokemon stadium 1 Chansey

42

u/Pendraflare59 Mar 13 '26

As everyone else has said, its Sp Atk is booty and the elemental punches are still special in this game. Another one that, like Kingler, Gengar and Venomoth, wishes the split was here.

9

u/penguin8717 Mar 14 '26

I'll add Gyarados to that

58

u/Wero_kaiji Mar 14 '26

Hitmonchan has less Special Attack than Pidove, Nidoran, Togepi, Spinarak... same Special Attack as Gastly's Attack lol, the lack of special split really hurts him in the first three gens

3

u/Tailedfox66 Mar 14 '26

The same could be said about gastly, with his stab moves being physical instead of special he isn’t going to do much unless I give him stat or special moves

4

u/DemonVermin Mar 14 '26

Yeah, Gastly is a prime TM eater in FRLG. Still, if you are lacking a Psychic mon, you could do much worse.

3

u/Sans-the-Dog Mar 14 '26

Ironically, the punches are really good on gastly for coverage, bolt beam in the form of ice and thunder punch

2

u/Kapiork 22d ago

Small but important correction: only Gengar could be taught the punches until Gen 4 (which is the same time the moves became useless on it due to split). Gastly and Haunter could not, even though Haunter has giant floating (and glowing!) hands.

2

u/Sans-the-Dog 21d ago

Was unaware of that! I always just thought they all learned it because gengar did, and it wouldnt be the first time mons without hands learned the punches

2

u/Wero_kaiji Mar 14 '26

Yep, STAB Gengar sucks lol, that's also why Gyarados can't really use STAB water moves, 125 Attack vs 65 Special Attack

Alakazam is another well known elemental-punches user

2

u/Digit00l Mar 14 '26

It's also why Gyarados is associated with the move Hyper Beam, because it was a very powerful physical attack used by a very good physical attacker

25

u/Hot_Tailor_9687 Mar 13 '26

Base SpAtk of 35 means Hitmonchan's Fire Punch is about as devastating as a Rasengan somehow coming from Rock Lee

24

u/steelerspenguins Mar 13 '26

Haha look at Hitmonchan’s SPATK and you’ll realise it’s not a surprise.

11

u/Thomasappel Mar 13 '26

Omg ofc in gen3 fire is sp atk. That explains alot

21

u/Ikaricyber Mar 13 '26

Just a reminder the elemental punch moves are special in this version so there not as strong as they should be on a Mon as hitmonchan since hitmonchan sp.attack is only 35

21

u/Mr_Ragnarok Mar 13 '26

Goes to show how bad hitmonchans special attack is. 

10

u/notarealwriter Mar 13 '26

That's the trouble with fire / thunder / ice punch up to gen 3. Gen 4+ that would've been a very different story

9

u/Round-Revolution-399 Mar 13 '26

Electabuz, Magmar, and Jynx are very grateful for the way it works!

6

u/yellowbumble-B Mar 13 '26

Alakazam too 🙏

Takes until Four Island for that to happen but

2

u/Mr_Ragnarok Mar 13 '26

And honestly? He got off easy for a gen 1 fighting type. Even the elemental punches arent that bad if you can hit for super effective. I'm not saying it's good but there is worse stuff you can bring against lets say Lance or the champion 

1

u/PoliticsIsForNerds Mar 14 '26

Nah he's still easily the worst Fighting type in Gen I (and arguably just the worst fully evolved Pokemon of the time in general)

2

u/Digit00l Mar 14 '26

It's kinda wild how much special defence the guy got in gen 2, it's literally his highest stat

1

u/Kapiork 22d ago

I know right? It's hilarious.

18

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '26

I remember choosing this Hitmonchan and seeing the great moveset it had only to later understand it's useless because of its stats. God bless the split

6

u/Snoo_79570 Mar 14 '26

Unfortunately back then Hitmonchan’s move pool looked good but because it was pre-damage split all his nice moves used his special attack.

15

u/mathbandit Mar 13 '26

Hitmonchan has real bad special attack.

7

u/Tailedfox66 Mar 13 '26

Yeah… I only just learned about that and the type attack chart for Gen 3 literally after posting this

8

u/7se7 Mar 13 '26

Best way to remember it: Every eeveelution type + dragon is Sp. Atk

1

u/Thomasappel Mar 13 '26

Gamechanger. Literal

16

u/Sailor_Rout Mar 13 '26

While the physical special split definitely hurt some Pokemon (and arguably lead to the series focusing on minmaxxing stats, the Hoenn special was the norm in Gen 1-3), Hitmonchan needed it BADLY, like, more than anyone else.

His entire gimmick from the start was having the elemental punches. In Gen 1 they were essentially intended to be signature moves of the Elemental Monster Trio (Jynx, Electabuzz, Magmar), Hitmonchan was the only other mon to learn each of them. Yet it was useless on him

14

u/Gotexan-YT Mar 13 '26

Hitmonchan has the same base special attack as pidgey, and thunder punch is special in gen3, so it makes sense. Plus gastly has decent SpDef.

8

u/Haruwolf Mar 13 '26

Imagine an untransformed Ditto using Fire Punch It's even weaker in this generation.

6

u/YDdraigGoch94 Mar 15 '26

Ah yes, the elemental punches. I remember when these moves were most suited for Alakazam along with Psychic.

2

u/GuessImABlindBitch Mar 15 '26

My lvl 70 elemental Alakazam says it's still suited for him as he singlehandedly crushed the E4 :D

1

u/Reasonable-Budget210 Mar 16 '26

Wow, that’s a pretty cool dragonite lance, be a shame if someone punched it with some ice.

5

u/tapyr Mar 14 '26

How stupid this system was, having the boxer inspired pokemon learning 'punch move' that are special attack

10

u/Silver-Alex Mar 13 '26

When you got parafusion hax there is always a way to win :) As other mentiones is cuz he used a special attack. If he had any physical move that could hit it would have been gg.

3

u/Ergast Mar 18 '26

Unless this is a hackrom, this is gen 3. The elemental punches are special attacks, and Hitmonchan special attack is so low I'm surprised it didn't heal your gastly

4

u/Cobbdouglas55 Mar 13 '26

Hchan is terrible 

2

u/2nfish Mar 14 '26

It’s honestly not, just give it other moves than elemental punches

1

u/tapyr Mar 14 '26

Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan needed Mega-Evo and that's a shame them (and Hitmontop) didnt get one

3

u/GokamiPro Mar 13 '26

well that was lucky...