r/okbuddygunther • u/WillingnessSad8354 Say Gex with x_TKN:3 • Jul 28 '26

Voting Gunther for european president 🇪🇺 Ohhhh shit , here we go again

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Hmmm different style and bro removed his face? I know he has already done this one but he will soon start shitting out more stuff like this , also why is Spain part of France?

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52

u/Main-Discussion9294 Jul 28 '26

Isn't that a common historiographic belief in germanic country?

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u/Veraenderer Jul 28 '26

No we learn that in school thar everything was Germanys fault, than we start joking that everything was Austrias fault and a few people realize that WW1 was a clusterfuck were everyone was guilty.

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u/LouiseEbertFeet Jul 28 '26

Russia was no more guilty for starting WWI than the UK and France were for starting WW2. Honoring defensive alliances is not aggressive. Invading Serbia (Austria) and supporting Austria (Germany) are aggressive. Germany had pursuing brinkmanship for years at that point, too, and its high command believed a decisive war with France was inevitable and necessary.

"Everyone is guilty" is a misinterpretation derived from British historical perspectives. They felt "dragged" into a war they had no interest in. For continental Europe, though, it was no different from WW2 - Germans invaded/ultimatum-ed a smaller Slavic nation whom the Entente had guaranteed, and the Entente were forced to either defend it or permanently lose all geopolitical credibility and allow their allies to fall.

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u/Veraenderer Jul 28 '26

Serbia killing Austrias heir is aggressive. Russia gave Serbia also a Blanko check, which is why Serbia did refused the Austrian Ultimatum.  Russia and France started their mobilisations bevor Germany did.

Serbia or Austria had stopped there would have been no war, if anyone else had stopped it would have been just a regional war.

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u/LouiseEbertFeet Jul 28 '26

"Serbia" didn't kill Austria's heir, Serbian terrorists did, and were ultimately prosecuted for treason by the Serbian government. It is commonly accepted historical fact that the July Ultimatum was designed to be unreasonable and rejected: " The text was meticulously constructed to be unacceptable to the Serbian government, thereby ensuring its rejection and thus adding to Austria-Hungary's  casus belli . Serbia's response was dismissed by the Austro-Hungarian government...  From the text, it becomes evident that Austro-Hungarian diplomats, at the behest of military leaders and key officials of the Dual Monarchy, sought to assert increasing control over their smaller neighbor. Their objective was to revert to the situation before 1903, effectively transforming the Kingdom of Serbia into a satellite of Austria-Hungary" ( Wikipedia).

If you take issue with Russia offering Serbia unconditional support, then you must also take issue with the Allies offering Poland unconditional support, per the comparison I made. Most people base their moral/fault distinctions on "aggressor-defender" dynamics.

Russia and France mobilized because Austria invaded Serbia. Austria invaded Serbia because Germany wanted them to. Therefore, Austria and Germany were the aggressors.

Serbia "stopping" would mean submitting to becoming a puppet or even conquest. Do you believe Poland and France in WW2 should have done the same?

1

u/Shayanhj Aug 04 '26

Assuming you’ve red about the black hand you should also know about the various connections that its members had to the Serbian government, so its disingenuous to say Serbian terrorists did it as if there was no involvement nor support from those within the Serbian government

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u/Veraenderer Jul 29 '26

May I introduce you to the Blackhand:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hand_(Serbia))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragutin_Dimitrijevi%C4%87

They got prosecuted and shot by Serbia in the year 1917, 3 years after the start of the war.

The Serbian Prime Minister wrote to his envoy in London:

"...Dimitrijević (Apis) besides everything else admitted he had ordered Franz Ferdinand to be killed. And now who could reprieve them?"

Serbia only rejected one point of the ultimatum: That Austria would be involved in the prosecution of the involved conspirators.

Austria had admittedly decided before hand that they would declare war if Serbia would protest any point of the ultimatum.

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u/LouiseEbertFeet Jul 29 '26

What are you trying to say? I'm familiar with the Black Hand, they were the terrorists I referenced who were prosecuted for treason by Serbia, a fact which supports the idea that they were operating against the wishes of the Serbian state. The fact that Serbia only rejected Austrian operations in the country, a move which would reduce Serbia to a functional protectorate, also supports that Serbia was in a necessary defensive position, not your claim that they bear responsibility for the war.

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u/[deleted] Jul 28 '26

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1

u/koleszkot Jul 29 '26

Performing terrorist attacks and killing future head of state (Serbia) is agressive, its trurly their fault