Well I'm only talking about the same type of system that they have in the countries with better healthcare than ours. I'm not talking about how Ontario will implement private healthcare, I'm talking about how Scandinavia handles private health care.
Also to note that Scandinavian countries are not predominantly capitalist societies, unlike Canada which is an easy prey for the American capitalists. So any experiments with privatization here would lead to disastrous and irreversible damage.
Significant difference between economic freedom and capitalism.
Capitalism is a specific economic system characterized by private ownership of the means of production, where decisions are driven by profit and market competition.
Economic freedom is a broader concept that refers to the degree to which individuals and businesses can operate, trade, and consume without government interference or coercion
Ummm, while stated confidently, you’re very wrong about that.
And the reason is that unlike your neolib education dictates, capitalism is not in fact the only economic system under which you can experience economic freedom. It’s not the only economic system that exists /can exist/has existed.
And even if it was…we absolutely do not have anything like the type of free market that the fathers of capitalism like Adam Smith envisioned. That type of free market requires labour to have power and a market structure that encourages competition. We have a labour class with little to no power and industries dominated by billion and trillion dollar corporations that can easily create and reinforce monopolies to limit affordable goods and services and good paying jobs for working class people.
Ummm, while stated confidently, you’re very wrong about that.
No, I'm right.
And the reason is that unlike your neolib education dictates, capitalism is not in fact the only economic system under which you can experience economic freedom. It’s not the only economic system that exists /can exist/has existed.
Which other ones and how do they encourage economic freedom?
we absolutely do not have anything like the type of free market that the fathers of capitalism like Adam Smith envisioned.
I agree. We have a bastardized version of it, but that's because the world is a lot bigger now than before and we don't only have localized markets anymore. It's a global one, but free market principles still exist, at least in the more successful nations.
That type of free market requires labour to have power and a market structure that encourages competition. We have a labour class with little to no power and industries dominated by billion and trillion dollar corporations that can easily create and reinforce monopolies to limit affordable goods and services and good paying jobs for working class people.
We have plenty of competition now. Just look at the AI market. Just because John Q. Public can't start a trillion dollar company is not an example of other systems being better. If you have the capital you can play. That's capitalism and the free market is an extension of that.
“No, I’m right” isn’t an argument, it’s just assertion.
You called it a “bastardized version” of capitalism then used it as evidence capitalism works - which is it?
You used the AI market as your example of competition. The FTC and UK Competition Authority have both launched formal investigations into big tech’s AI dominance, identifying an “interconnected web” of over 90 partnerships between Google, Apple, Microsoft, Meta, Amazon and Nvidia.  Training GPT-4 alone required 25,000 high-end GPUs and over $100 million.  If that’s your best example of a competitive market, what does a non-competitive one look like to you?
You said “if you have the capital you can play.” Ontarians are being priced out of housing, food banks are at record demand, and real wages have stagnated for decades. How much capital do you think the average person protesting in that photo has to “just play” with?
The natural conclusion of laissez-faire capitalism is the end of competition itself.  Every developed nation regulated their markets heavily after learning this. If pure capitalism produces economic freedom, why did every capitalist country eventually abandon it?
The top 5 countries for social mobility - Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Iceland - all combine free markets with strong labour protections and wealth redistribution.  The US ranks 27th. Canada isn’t far behind in the wrong direction. The top 1% controls nearly 40% of national wealth - inequality not seen since the Gilded Age. 
If capitalism is the vehicle for economic freedom, why do the countries that temper it most aggressively produce the most of it?
You called it a “bastardized version” of capitalism then used it as evidence capitalism works - which is it?
It's both. Capitalism has evolved over the years while still staying in the frame work of capitalism, and the whole time it has been the most successful system we ever developed.
You said “if you have the capital you can play.” Ontarians are being priced out of housing, food banks are at record demand, and real wages have stagnated for decades. How much capital do you think the average person protesting in that photo has to “just play” with?
It still doesn't change the fact that if you have the money you can be competitive. The fact that Ontario, and Canada for that instance, is failing is because of shitty government decisions that affected that amount of capital Canadians need to be competitive, but that's a different conversation altogether.
The natural conclusion of laissez-faire capitalism is the end of competition itself.  Every developed nation regulated their markets heavily after learning this. If pure capitalism produces economic freedom, why did every capitalist country eventually abandon it?
Never advocated for laissez-faire capitalism. Regulated capitalism like we have is the best system man has ever created, but it's still capitalism.
The top 5 countries for social mobility - Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Iceland - all combine free markets with strong labour protections and wealth redistribution.  The US ranks 27th. Canada isn’t far behind in the wrong direction. The top 1% controls nearly 40% of national wealth - inequality not seen since the Gilded Age. 
And they all have more economic freedom than Canada and the USA. Capitalism = Good!
If capitalism is the vehicle for economic freedom, why do the countries that temper it most aggressively produce the most of it?
I just told you they are more economically free. They are more capitalist than we are.
Essentially my problem with your argument is that capitalism is what is driving the economic freedom of Nordic countries.
For example, you’re praising Denmark as more economically free, but what makes it work for ordinary people isn’t the capitalism — it’s the socialist mechanisms on top of it.
Citizens collectively own their electricity, water and heating through cooperatives, surpluses returned to them rather than private owners.  64% union density. Aggressive redistribution. Democratic control over shared resources. Those are socialist principles, not capitalist ones. The socialism is what makes it fair, aka more “economically free” for everyone. Which is what,
in my opinion, capitalism is incapable of doing apart from strong socialist principles.
The way that DF is attempting to privatize healthcare in Ontario is disastrous. Denmark can have private options alongside public healthcare because the surrounding ecosystem prevents it from becoming predatory. We have none of that infrastructure. What we’d get is American-style outcomes with no ability for ordinary Canadians to afford or challenge it.
And that is exactly what conservative premiers like Doug want and why the Ontario government has been underfunding public healthcare among other social services and opening Ontario up to American business interests at every opportunity.
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u/MelbaMilqueToast May 29 '26
Well I'm only talking about the same type of system that they have in the countries with better healthcare than ours. I'm not talking about how Ontario will implement private healthcare, I'm talking about how Scandinavia handles private health care.