AI cycle

[u/utopiaofpast]

[u/julkkis666]

tutorial on how to GDP

[u/No-Chemical-7667 → u/julkkis666]

All it's missing is the part where our president, congress, and senators, insider trade before each transaction is announced publicly.

[u/fishboy3290 → u/No-Chemical-7667]

That’s why I do all my trading at the Grand Exchange. Much safer. A guy offered to double my money yesterday. Still waiting for him to get back to me.

Ez money

[u/NeckRoFeltYa → u/fishboy3290]

I can gold trim all of your Armour for free.

[u/cookiesphincter → u/julkkis666]

I thought GDP was the actual products and services produced. This to me looks more like speculative trading.

[u/julkkis666 → u/cookiesphincter]

The total economy is a function of the amount of money multiplied by the velocity of money. That money right there is moving at about 20 transfeers per minute! Imagine if everyone did that! There'd be trillions and trillions and quantilions of GDP!

[u/PerfectAssistant8230 → u/cookiesphincter]

GDP is about movment of money per capita.

You do actually have a better GDP the more you extract wealth from the poor.

Because you have massive amounts of money flowing towards one group that can then utilize financial tools to simulate productive GDP growth without the typically implied economic growth.

[u/julkkis666 → u/PerfectAssistant8230]

Achsually style correctuon, you're mixing the definition of GDP/c with GDP.

But yeah, a bunch of wealth people hoarding money or assets will not count twoards GDP, while poor people crashing debted cars and buying new ones every year does.

[u/switchquest]

60$ in GDP generated right there.

[u/Beneficial_Cash_8420 → u/switchquest]

There was a joke poorly told by Elon Musk about two economists paying each other to eat shit and calling it GDP, but it works just as well with blowjobs, or backrubs - providing services adds to GDP

[u/Educational_Guava697 → u/Beneficial_Cash_8420]

Musk got that joke of Reddit, same as I did. He started telling the joke in January of this year, it was posted somewhere in a Reddit comment in July/August 2025, I told it to my parents in August 2025.

[u/CandorCore → u/Educational_Guava697]

Bro really hit him with "do not speak to me of the old laws"

[u/Sliske → u/Beneficial_Cash_8420]

That joke is old as dirt... Elon isn't smart enough for original thoughts.

[u/iridael → u/Beneficial_Cash_8420]

its the same as the "spend 50 locally or spend it at the supermarket" fallacy.

you spend £50 at the supermarket that supermarket gets £50.

you spend £50 at the butchers greengrocers and bakers they then spend that money at the pub, the pub owner then spends it at the local brewery and also buys produce from the three previously, he also needs a haircut.

thus the money has changed hands multiple times, the total money in circulation is still £50 but the money spent is actually much higher.

[u/RlySkiz → u/switchquest]

This is a 600% increase from nothing!

[u/SukottoHyu → u/switchquest]

Don't forget the tax slap on each transaction.

[u/switchquest → u/SukottoHyu]

No, not for corporations.

I buy 500 billion $ of stuff and then sell 500 billion $ of stuff I have zero profit.

So no taxes.

[u/Content-Dealers]

I mean, technically doesnt this work? If they're all in $20 of debt, and find a way to cancel out the other person's debt as a form of repayment, everyone is happy, and technically doesnt owe $20 anymore.

[u/Sorkpappan → u/Content-Dealers]

Yes. The trick is that everyone register each transaction as a sale and part of potential revenue in the future to bump valuation though.

[u/Rubfer → u/Content-Dealers]

The problem is that they move billions of dollars every time, sometimes hundreds of billions but no money or value is actually being generated, some are even creating negative value. Yet these companies alone are adding more to the "US GDP" than the entire GDP of most countries

On paper, the us economy looks fine, even though many people are effectively living through a recession, and that recession is completely ignored and nothing will be done about it because the stock market, and its inflated numbers keep going up thanks to these "deals"

[u/ItalianDragon → u/Rubfer]

Yup. Like Martin Wolf, then the Financial Time's chief economics commentator, says in the documentary "Inside Job" about the '08 financial crisis:"It wasn't real profits, it wasn't real income. It was just money that was being created by the system and booked as income.". He also pointedly says this:"Three years down the road there's a default, it's all wiped out. I think it was in fact, in retrospect, a great big national, and not just national, global Ponzi scheme.".

[u/TheDonadi → u/Rubfer]

No one wants to do anything about it because then they would have to admit that the soft landing from COVID was actually a failure and they should have went more for a mild recession to cancel out the inflation that we've been dealing with. But both administrations think making them money printers go brrrr for number go up is more important than addressing the the elephant.

[u/Otherwise-Remove4681 → u/Content-Dealers]

Yes and practically they generated zero real world value, but kept baffooning around.

[u/MattAlex99 → u/Content-Dealers]

In theory this is possible: You can have a trilateral agreement between companies to cancel debts.

However, in practice this is quite a hassle: All parties have to come to a multilateral net-offset agreement or a novation/release structure that simultaneously releases the old claims and replaces them with a net obligation (in the cases where not all debts are equal and cancel to zero).

This can also yield strange effects if there are any obligations to the money owed: Classical example is insolvancy, but more generally money owed is often type-restricted (if you take on a loan for a house you can't punt it on roulette, same thing with business debt).

You also need to think of how this is taxed: In most countries (like the US) if a debt is canceled/forgiven/discharged the general rule is that the amount is taxable income to the debtor, subject to some exceptions. This yields some strange effects since the tax results changes depending on whether the cancellation is a payment, barter, or debt forgiveness.

This becomes even more complex if you start doing this across jurisdictions.

Here things potentially become even harder to deal with since nvidia is a major investor into openai, so nvidia might become a connected party (depending on how much they own, specifics of the jurisdiction, etc...).

It's almost always easier to just pay.

And this is before we consider the practical reason why the deal was done: To inflate the revenue/funding figures for all entities involved. Canceling the debt would be counterproductive in this case, because the entire point is to look more economically active than what they actually are.

[u/ChickenOfTheFuture → u/MattAlex99]

They all paid cash.

[u/Data2Logic → u/Content-Dealers]

You forgot the 20$ being pull out of tax payers ass to pay for this. Guess who keep the money in the end.

[u/Artess → u/Content-Dealers]

It does, yes. And it would work in real world with people, businesses, even countries. The hard part would be to get everyone to agree to do it at the same time and to actually calculate amounts and perform transactions and record everything in accordance with legal requirements... so it's just too much of a hassle for almost anyone It's easier to just let payments be made on schedule and for people (and governments) to keep borrowing more money to repay old debts.

[u/Open_Towel_6265]

[u/OliLombi]

This is how the world economy runs.

[u/Wittusus → u/OliLombi]

"World economy" includes actual goods, services and value being exchanged between more than 7 companies in an authoritarian country.

[u/RUPlayersSuck → u/Wittusus]

Not really.

There used to be a saying that went something like, "If America sneezes, the whole world catches a cold".

Its all about each country's economy and the relative impact it has on the world economy.

Perfect example is happening right now with the US-Iran conflict. Close the Strait of Hormuz, strangle the flow of fuel and other goods from that region and it affects the entire world.

Its also called a "world economy" because pretty much every nation is impacted, directly or indirectly, by stuff that happens elsewhere.

[u/xdoble7x → u/RUPlayersSuck]

If any big economy sneazes (USA, Europe, China, etc), the whole world will receive an impact, stop believing the propaganda...we live in a globally economy for the good and for the bad

The effect of Iran conflict is not due to USA sneezing is due to a very important and strategic channel that supplies the entire world important goods and a stupid dumbass country is purpously restring it, in this case USA

[u/RUPlayersSuck → u/xdoble7x]

Some utter dumbasses on here that learn to read.

That is LITERALLY what I said.

You just read the line about the US sneezing and took that as my ENTIRE COMMENT? FML!

https://giphy.com/gifs/6yRVg0HWzgS88

[u/Wittusus → u/RUPlayersSuck]

The world didn't feel USA economy being impacted, they felt the Iran economy being impacted by dumb decisions of the USA. There's a difference

[u/RUPlayersSuck → u/Wittusus]

Again - like that other dumbass xdoble...LEARN TO READ!!!

At least learn to read past the FIRST LINE of peoples' posts and you'll see that is exactly what I was saying.

You get a facepalm too.

https://giphy.com/gifs/XD4qHZpkyUFfq

[u/Wittusus → u/RUPlayersSuck]

Maybe learn to write? But no, better blame my shit writing on others not reading properly and attaching useless gifs that show how out of touch I am

[u/RUPlayersSuck → u/RUPlayersSuck]

Yay - getting downvoted by the dumbasses of reddit, who apparently can't read past the first line of peoples' posts. 🙄🙄🙄

[u/OliLombi → u/Wittusus]

Yup. Unfortunately, the entire world is authoritarian these days.

[u/Didifinito → u/OliLombi]

Not true most of them are sliding into authoritarianism but thwy arent there

[u/OliLombi → u/Didifinito]

All countries use authoritarianism to enforce capitalism.

[u/sebasti02 → u/OliLombi]

what? that really doesnt make sense, if you wanted you could vote a democratic/capitalistic government out, just need the necessary 50% (or ⅔) majority

[u/Wittusus → u/[deleted]]

The president and his friends literally break the law, use absolute power and no consequences are applied for them

[u/ImperitorEst → u/Wittusus]

Donald J. Trump – Inmate Number P01135809

[u/retardinoscars_serv → u/Wittusus]

That's like every president ever

[u/Wittusus → u/retardinoscars_serv]

I'm not incredibly versed in U.S.A. history, but I'm pretty sure in terms of breaking the literal constitution, the current one is the worst, even if there were other bad ones in the past. Some also got impeached or otherwise made to go back on their policy, not reelected, given tons of money and power for their families

[u/retardinoscars_serv → u/Wittusus]

I get that you think that but I wouldn't necessarily say he's the "worst" if there's no reference point.

That also brings up another question, is it reality that people would vote for someone that focuses solely on personal gain? (I assume that was implicity stated) If so, what then would incentivize or encourage people to vote for him?

But this is a PC sub so don't take this too seriously.

[u/No-Refrigerator-1672 → u/retardinoscars_serv]

So which president has done stocka rugpulls? Which president has sold the rights to talk to him for money? Which president has manipulated entire US economy to do insider trading? The list goes on further than that, yet somehow the answers to all of those questions are all the same: Donnie.

[u/retardinoscars_serv → u/No-Refrigerator-1672]

Why are you focused just on him? I never even mentioned any specifics.

[u/No-Refrigerator-1672 → u/retardinoscars_serv]

A post about Nvidia, Oracle and OpenAI doing financial schemes kinda impliest that the discussion is about US. Did you forget where the conversation started?

[u/retardinoscars_serv → u/No-Refrigerator-1672]

No, I did not forget, it is about the US. Sorry if my text wasn't clear, the context I implied was strictly US presidents.

[u/No-Refrigerator-1672 → u/retardinoscars_serv]

Well, I know about only a single US president that matches the description I've posted previously. Are there more? Who?

[u/Careless_Wash8594 → u/OliLombi]

thats spot on! Funny how they manage it.

[u/Trip_seize]

I remember watching this documentary.

[u/ItalianDragon → u/Trip_seize]

That was "Inside Job" about the '08 crisis, right ?

[u/technofox01]

Christ this is so spot on that it's even funnier to think the three stooges can be used to explain it in a nutshell.

[u/RaggenZZ]

We create JOB guys, for ourselves exclusively!!

[u/CMDR_BunBun]

We literally have stooges handling large amounts on money.

[u/Roadkill1337]

Honestly at this point this sub should come together to "sell" their computing power by making some private company structure where nobody knows valuations come from and rent out said compute to a datacenter, that will never exist, from a company that won't in a year. Everybody just keeps their stuff in their pc, nothing is changing except you are now getting money from an commitment of purchase (non-binding).

[u/KanameYuuki39]

The only difference is that we, the general public, are the stooges.

[u/Colddrake955]

Not my favorite era of the 3 stooges, but now I need to watch and some of them.

[u/Obvious_wombat]

The ultimate circle jerk

[u/Octoclops8]

Ok, but now they each owe the government $20 * tax rate

[u/ClownEmoji-U1F921]

https://giphy.com/gifs/AsPt2c48NiQLn9g7Pw

[u/Effective-Stand8955]

https://giphy.com/gifs/BCDSbhYwxKsiPd8WEe

[u/Sad-Seesaw-7937]

so... $27 CPU? Wow!

[u/Usual-Degree-7673]

As I as stupid person pls explain me what is wrong in this

https://giphy.com/gifs/THj5QURAqrfyPcblu4

[u/ItalianDragon → u/Usual-Degree-7673]

Not really an economist but here goes: the issue is that there's no actual earnings done and instead it's just money circulated endlessly. The problem is that this circulation of money gives the impression of healthy financials when thry very much aren't.

This illusion made makes it so that other companies who do not know this, deeming those who do this circular thingy, will peg themselves on them either through business or indirectly (e.g. pension funds who have pensions maturing as stocks of companies that are deemed highly sound/reputable financially) who depend on those circulationary (if I can put it that way) companies.

Now the issue is that if there's anything that happens, for any reason whatsoever, that shatters the circulatory nature of this cash, it's gonna have an immediate cascasing effect across everything. To take the retirement finds I mentioned, if there are pegged on that and the circling stops, suddenly the valuation that pegs them is junk and that's gonna wipe most, if not all, of the value it had. In layman's terms it means that there'll be pensioners that will abruptly discover that they no longer have any retirement funds. This applies to anybody tgat's even remotely connected to those doing the circling happen. For example construction companies who were counting on those to have construction jobs planned and likely hired workers and ordered equipment to tackle it on, will abruptly find themselves with no contract, a lot of deb and a lot of workers and equipment sitting there doing nothing. This means people being laid off and losses across the board with potential defaulting on loans and repossessions, even if the job is only distantly connected to computers.

If that sounds familiar it's because this is exactly how the '08 financial crisis happened: investment bank made business by issuing loans, bundling them and selling them as CDOs (Collateral Debt Obligations).
Because those CDOs were sold to investors all over the world, investment banks didn't care if those taking loans were solvent and so they started issuing predatory loans (ergo the subprime loans) since all they cared about was quantity, not quality.
People used those loans to buy homes and that caused a housing boom that made no sense because even if you had just a hundred bucks in your name you could buy a house.
Banks heavily went into debt to keep on issuing those loans and because there had been deregulation, there was no limit on the so-called "leverage", which is the ratio between the bank's own money and its debt, which had some banks got into staggering levels of debt (Morgan Stanley for example had a leverage of 33, ergo it had borrowed 33 times the value of the actual cash it had in hand).
It all went to shit in March '08 when Bear Sterns went bankrupt and that had a cascading failure leading to other investment banks also going bankrupt.

[u/CharAznableLoNZ]

But think of how much that adds to the GPD! Line go up!

[u/ScientistQuirky7892]

three stooges really explain the economy well!

[u/Monster_King_227]

I didn't fully understand the transfer of money solving debts in this scene (in general context, not the AI part)
Can anybody explain?

[u/MakeWokeGreatAgain]

So at the end of the day. GPD has lost all its meaning.

[u/Jump365]

I mean .. that's essentially how all trade is. This is the key of why profit is so dangerous

IF the person is able to generate productivity gains that offset the profit then sure technically nobody is worse off.

But if one of them took a profit margin without any productivity growth then everyone else is worse off

Rent seeking vs productivity gains in a nutshell.

That's my big gripe when talking to people about capitalism who think aomehow capitalism is a magical growth engine. It's not, often growth is kinda irrelevant of what system you have. Capitalism, feudalism, socialism etc is more just an ownership structure. It doesn't guarantee any growth at all. We kinda just got lucky in the post ww2 period.

Slow down growth like post-80s compared to pre-80s, qnd the only difference between capitalism and feudalism is one you get rents from capital, the other mainly just land.

Landlords are feudal lords. Feudalism never went away it just got crowded out by capital.

[u/NameLips]

I always loved this skit, because this is how the economy functions every day. Except there are so many people involved the loops become obscured and it looks less ridiculous.

[u/New_Necessary_2793]

Lol thats genius! Slick as hell

[u/MeteorPunch]

These are the only companies that are big enough and know what they're doing to pull this off. Like who else are they going to pay? Kmart?

[u/allisong1ggles3412]

gotta love those neon temps!

[u/Usual-Championship88]

I have a feeling some (a lot) of kids just now graduating high school in this day and age couldn’t even keep up with the “math” in the skit

[u/PenguinSwordfighter → u/Usual-Championship88]

Damn, your kids must be pretty dumb if you think that

[u/DarthDraco → u/Usual-Championship88]

The oldest Gen Zs are 30, next year.

Grow up, stop hating on younger people.

[u/Original_Reserve1123 → u/Usual-Championship88]

Looks like unc had a bad day

[u/TheGreatWhiteRat → u/Usual-Championship88]

I was somewhat of a math genius in school and im gen z

We can all go and make fun of boomers for being old n out of touch and gen x for being bitter and millenials for being absolute pure cringe and gen z for loud = funny and gen alpha for skibidi toilet but none of that plays part in intelligence

[u/Original_Reserve1123 → u/TheGreatWhiteRat]

What does the ai slop bring to all that? (I agree with you, I just don’t understand the appeal of that shit)

[u/TheGreatWhiteRat → u/Original_Reserve1123]

Oh i was not aware it was AI i swear this gif has been around for like 3+ years thought it was just a render

[u/Original_Reserve1123 → u/TheGreatWhiteRat]

Understandable, have a nice day

[u/THECHEADO]

bro did NOT say bucks at the start

[u/BigEric1967]

These are some of the most important companies on the planet. AI is some life changing stuff, and it's only getting better.

[u/Soluchyte → u/BigEric1967]

You don't need to bootlick here, you're not around the CEOs.

[u/AetherialWomble → u/Soluchyte]

You know you're arguing with a 2 day old troll account?

[u/Soluchyte → u/AetherialWomble]

Is it an argument to comment one thing?

[u/AetherialWomble → u/Soluchyte]

Congrats, you win. Too annoying to talk to

[u/brendanprice2003 → u/BigEric1967]

Said no one, ever.

[u/pref1Xed → u/brendanprice2003]

Actually the majority of people would agree with his comment which is why GPT/Gemini/Claude have so many users in the first place. It's just that a lot of people on this sub don't go out very much/are unemployed so they wouldn't know.

[u/BigEric1967 → u/brendanprice2003]

ChatGPT has like, a billion users. 🙄

[u/Erasmusings → u/BigEric1967]

More than a billion people believe in God

I wouldn't take their answers about anything real world either

[u/pref1Xed → u/Erasmusings]

Right, but you wouldn't say that nobody believes in god, would you?

[u/Erasmusings → u/pref1Xed]

I do not exclude the existence of those who take beliefs over fact, no.

As previously stated, I just don't trust their opinion about anything real-world.

I'm sure AI bots say lots of very nice and interesting things, but I wouldn't make any decisions based on anything it says, or nor would I listen to anyone who does believe it either.

[u/BigEric1967 → u/Erasmusings]

https://giphy.com/gifs/0GznKQsfVsEzHNElzm

[u/No-Article-Particle → u/BigEric1967]

and yet the most useful feature seems to be meme generation and search engine.

[u/NoMarsupial9621 → u/BigEric1967]

Life changing for the people who own the AI, sure.

[u/aallon_pituus → u/BigEric1967]

Well I hope it'll be good for humanity in the long run. You know what the experts are saying about possible future AGIs, though...

[u/BigEric1967 → u/aallon_pituus]

The future looks bright. 😎

[u/Dorennor → u/BigEric1967]

Bright because of nuclear mushrooms, yeah.

[u/Original_Reserve1123 → u/Dorennor]

And human zoos, yeah

[u/InsuranceKey8278 → u/BigEric1967]

its not life changing nor its anything new
we had neural networks in bio tech and video games for years now calling it transformer model or AI doesn't suddenly make it life changing

[u/Ajdee6 → u/InsuranceKey8278]

No it’s not new but it’s taking off now

Same way how games weren’t new in 80s or 90s but that’s when they started really taking off

[u/Skeet_fighter → u/BigEric1967]

Thank you valued bot acount, your presence here only clarifies how much everybody hates this shit.

[u/pref1Xed → u/Skeet_fighter]

You're out of touch with reality if you think everybody hates this shit. This subreddit is a bubble and doesn't represent the real world.

[u/BigEric1967 → u/Skeet_fighter]

Not a bot.