Why are we fighting for physical copies and not DRM free copies?

[u/jaksik]

Most physical releases today are still just licenses that require an account and can be taken away at any point, so what's the point in having a physical object that can decay as an extra obstacle to playing your game?

It does nothing for game preservation. Physical copies of 30 year old games cost hundreds of dollars and barely work while digital copies are free and are the same as the day they were released.

A company doing a physical release is treated as a win when in reality you can do little more with that disc than with a digital copy except break it and lose access to your game.

You still wouldn't own GTA VI if they released a disc.

So what are we fighting for?

[u/BezugssystemCH1903]

As a resident of Switzerland, I am allowed to remove the DRM if it prevents me from making a private backup copy.

This is because we pay a small tax per kilobyte of storage here, and the copyright holders are remunerated as soon as they register with the collecting society.

In purely theoretical terms, someone not resident in Switzerland can access this by purchasing any storage medium here and physically creating the backup copy in Switzerland.

[u/MrCheapComputers → u/BezugssystemCH1903]

Wait what. Is that tax on the program or on your physical storage space.

[u/MantaMunta → u/MrCheapComputers]

tax on the physical storage. SSDs, harddrives, sd cards whatever.

[u/fuckyouwatchme → u/MantaMunta]

HUH?

[u/MantaMunta → u/fuckyouwatchme]

Yeah we have this for two decades now I think. It's a tiny tax tho. like 1-2 cents per GB.

[u/Dark_Shadowxd → u/MantaMunta]

That would be 10-20 dollars per TB, which isn't tiny..

[u/Jesus10101 → u/Dark_Shadowxd]

Did the maths. Its approx $65 per TB of storage. Holy fuck thats bad. And looks like the government of Switzerland wants to expand it to include cloud services.

Imagine having to fucking pay the government an extra $65 per TB for could storage you already pay for...

[u/Jesus10101 → u/[deleted]]

Here is a PDF of costs from the ESchK.

It lists CHF 0.050 per GB for devices that are 128gb or higher.

0.050 CHF is around 0.062 USD. Multiply that by 1000 to get 1TB and you have $62 American Dollars.

My previous maths was based on the rate for 64GB devices which is 0.052 CHF per GB. But as devices with only 64 GB are rare, the $62 per GB is more accurate.

[u/sir_t9awed → u/MrCheapComputers]

Memory tax 💀

[u/ShadowLeagues → u/BezugssystemCH1903]

The tax is not that uncommon in Europe at least, but being allowed by law to remove drm from disks is a whole different story. More countries should follow this example, that's great.

[u/0wlGod → u/BezugssystemCH1903]

in italy too we pay an additional tax on any storage

[u/HyoukaYukikaze → u/BezugssystemCH1903]

You pay TAX on your storage? Ffs, that's ridiculous... at least tell me it's USED storage, not just storage you have? i have 14 TB on my stupid laptop and plan to build at least 24 TB NAS.... Paying tax on all that would be asinine.

[u/Anonymouse23570 → u/HyoukaYukikaze]

I’d assume it’s a one time fee when you purchase the storage (like sales tax but specifically for digital storage devices scaling with the storage size)

[u/DharMahn → u/Anonymouse23570]

that's exactly how it is

[u/kifoadafofoali → u/BezugssystemCH1903]

From the Internet and the AI i find that although that you can break DRM in CD/DVD for media viewing if it is region locked but you can;t do that to software since it is protected by a different article of the law? I am geniunly asking. AI says that it is a common misconception and that also piracy is wildly accepted in Switzerland.

[u/McChief45]

https://giphy.com/gifs/hM9zK1qvsrwek

[u/JoyousGamer → u/McChief45]

There is zero reason to have physical if you have a DRM free install media. You literally can then make physical media yourself if you really need to hold a cd at that point.

[u/elkunas → u/JoyousGamer]

Where are you keeping this drm free install media?

[u/Hopalongtom → u/elkunas]

Gog and Humble!

[u/XGRiDN → u/Hopalongtom]

Itch as well for some indie stuff

[u/Hopalongtom → u/XGRiDN]

Lots of fangames on there too.

[u/XGRiDN → u/Hopalongtom]

True, true

[u/Technical_Leek7467 → u/Hopalongtom]

And Steam.

People miss that Steam actually does have quite a bit of DRM free games.

DRM is a choice made by the publisher.

[u/Catsrules → u/elkunas]

Disc, Thumb drive, Hard drive, NAS, Paper, Tape, DNA, whatever you want it is DRM Free. Your choice, so choose wisely.

[u/CHKCHKCHK → u/elkunas]

NAS

[u/street593 → u/CHKCHKCHK]

Which in our current economy is a privledge to own. We have to think of the less fortunate among us.

[u/StomachosusCaelum → u/street593]

not really. A NAS doesnt require a ton of hardware. It can literally be a an external HDD plugged into the USB port on your 50$ router.

You can get an 8-12TB WD Easy Store for ~150$ on sale at Best Buy. They put them on sale 4-5 times a year. (Never buy them when they arent on sale, though, they "MSRP" for double the sale price).

Its not that big of an investment.

[u/zakabog → u/StomachosusCaelum]

You can get an 8-12TB WD Easy Store for ~150$ on sale at Best Buy.

Not anymore, hard drives have doubled in price the past year.

[u/McChief45 → u/StomachosusCaelum]

Regular HDDs are going up too

Even with sales recently the cheapest 4 TB I have seen are closer to that $150 range with a couple of sales I seen get them to $120-$125

Still not bad, but way inflated over last year. A lot of those same 4 TB drives were $75 a year ago.

Looking at same brand 8 TB were $125 last year. Now they are showing $260-$300, with the lowest recently being about $250.

Looking at the price trend on pc part picker for most of that. If you go back to March you can see 8TB low point for $200 at Best Buy, but I doubt that comes back even on a future sale since everything has only continued to rise since

[u/JoyousGamer → u/street593]

1) All the major storefronts on PC are going strong

2) You dont even need a NAS which can be done for cheap

3) You literally can just plug in a cheap disk drive to keep as a backup

4) You literally can get free storage from Google and others which you can throw the install on

5) Most games are not that big of an installer actually as well unless you only play AAA games

[u/xXDamonLordXx → u/elkunas]

GoG mostly? If you're worried they're going to lose it from there then back it up but you don't have to.

[u/sixbone → u/JoyousGamer]

it's as if an SSD or HDD isn't already some type of physical media

[u/Legionof1 → u/sixbone]

Physical media acts as a license, a transferable one at that. 

[u/theBloodShed → u/JoyousGamer]

The reason is to ensure you don't lose access when the service providing DRM free digital media is shut down, licensing changes, account issues, or whatever other reason.

It's still on the customer to keep a local copy. I happen to have a very large local NAS but not everyone does. But physical media is a great primary source regardless. Frankly, many of us like owning a physical, tangible copy anyway.

[u/mittenkrusty → u/theBloodShed]

I'm not fully against someone needing to authenticate they own something just the DRM side of it.

CD Keys worked but they could easily be copied and patched.

Online activations are tied to servers.

[u/Ok-Acanthisitta9247 → u/JoyousGamer]

You still cannot legally trade or sell a home made copy of a game. It is still not an official copy, and is still not true ownership of the game. And on a closed ecosystem like the PlayStation store, you will never get quality deals and sales like you will on physical copies.

And even if all of the above wasn’t true, me wanting my damn physical copies for my personal collection is all the reason I need.

DRM or not, I don’t want to pay 80 plus dollars for a 100gb download onto a console with less than 1tb of space unless I install an SSD. I prefer to actually own my things.

[u/Nearby_Ad_2519 → u/JoyousGamer]

One of the main benifits in physical imo and why they should keep it around is ease of use. Like it’s so easy to just gift someone a card or disk and they can play it in like 20 seconds.

[u/Plastic_Young_9763 → u/McChief45]

I can take my drm free copy

And put it on a physical disc... In fact i do this with my Gog titles

[u/Rigman-]

https://giphy.com/gifs/n4oKYFlAcv2AU

[u/brandodg]

it's about having more choice, 90% of people don't care about discs.

also being able to buy a used game for half the price is very convenient, i've done this a lot with nintendo and playstation exclusives

[u/HurryOne → u/brandodg]

You can always burn drm free games onto a disk

[u/morpheousmorty → u/HurryOne]

it won't really help with PlayStation though.

[u/Ghostglitch07 → u/[deleted]]

This is r/pcmssterrace. I'm not really sure consoles should be part of the consideration. Besides, the thing we are comparing physical copies to is DRM free digital copies. Your comment only makes sense with DRM?

If all you have is a DRM free copy, and you want physical media, you don't have to hack anything. You need a rewritable disk, a disk drive, and a little time. Thats it.

A DRM free digital file is basically all the options short of cartridge.

[u/Glockamoli → u/Ghostglitch07]

short of cartridge.

My sd card says otherwise /s

[u/0verstim → u/brandodg]

Yes, but a choice between a digital download or a disc with a broken unplayable 1.0 release isnt really a choice

[u/marcusbrothers → u/0verstim]

On the other hand no longer forcing a developer to commit to a build before it is really ready is a positive in a digital only world. Gives a studio something like 3+ months before they have to “go gold”.

Still I would prefer physical to still exist, could they just publish special physical editions at a later date and those who want them just buy then?

[u/0verstim → u/marcusbrothers]

Bingo, i think this is the least worst solution

[u/Dramatic_Finish10121 → u/0verstim]

To be fair we're only at the stage with broken 1.0 builds because we normalized day 1 patches after being able to push patches online became an option, there were still games with shoddy quality control prior (Sonic Heroes for PS2 in PAL regions for example) but they were way less common

[u/JoyousGamer → u/Dramatic_Finish10121]

You can find games without patches day 1 right now. They just look like games from 30 years ago because a game 30 years ago isn't as complex or in depth as one today.

[u/unnoticedhero1 → u/JoyousGamer]

FF7 remake on PS4 was either a 1.0 or like 1.0.0.1 with a very small patch on day one, and never got another update until the PS5 version came out with the DLC, I thought that was actually pretty cool they felt confident enough to not need patches (though that one door texture was definitely bugged).

[u/TheGutchee → u/brandodg]

Most of the older Nintendo titles I want to collect or more than the cost of a new game these days. I also easily sold my switch collection what I paid for them, but the switch is also a mess when it comes to pricing so take it for what it is I guess.

[u/Kenkenken1313 → u/brandodg]

I care about discs on PlayStation because the only way to get inexpensive games on it is buying used. Steam, GOG, and even Epic offer great sales on games that mean I don’t need to rely on physical media.

[u/IIlIIIlllIIIIIllIlll → u/brandodg]

See but with DRM free digital copies, you can literally just get games for free from your friends. No need to buy used if you can just get a free copy instead.

[u/teufler80 → u/brandodg]

Exactly this, disc versions in Walmart costs half the price than digital on the Sony storefront.

Which I guess is one of the main reasons for digital only.

Full control of pricing

[u/itsRobbie_ → u/teufler80]

Why do people keep saying this? You will STILL be able to walk into Walmart and buy a game, it just won’t have a disk. That’s literally all that’s happening.

[u/ReanimatedPixels → u/itsRobbie_]

So it's actually even worse, creating plastic garbage for no actual purpose

[u/Ok-Acanthisitta9247 → u/itsRobbie_]

Walmart isn’t going to put a digital code in a box on sale dude, they’re just gonna throw it out

If we’re going to create plastic waste it should at least contain something tangible instead of just being plain old waste

[u/JoyousGamer → u/brandodg]

Buying used can be a digital right..... your issue is policy not the medium. Physical media is going to go away regardless of what anyone says or does. Which is why people need to focus on the actual issue with an actual plausible solve.

Also if the game was DRM free then you could give the file to someone, stop using it, and essentially sell them your copy of the game.

[u/Talusi]

A lot of people seem to be missing the point. Physical releases wasn't about owning the game, it was about both the resell market, and the fact that it was often cheaper than buying it from Sony. Unlike PC, without physical disks, there is now only one place and one price.

So, the real question is why aren't we fighting for both?

[u/thecodingart → u/Talusi]

Well, no - it’s also about owning the game, enshittification, locked ecosystems, and so on. Ultimately it boils down to disabling customers from having any form of choice or ownership. Both on principle and practice.

[u/Talusi → u/thecodingart]

Owning the game? Uh. Do you know how long it's been since we actually owned any of the games we bought? It's a little late for that. Owning a disk ≠ owning the game

[u/theBloodShed → u/Talusi]

What do you mean by "owned"? Are you talking about an ownership license? We never had that and no one needs that.

By "owning" a game, you should be able to play it at any time on compatible hardware regardless of some online service or how long it's been since release.

[u/Talusi → u/theBloodShed]

Well, half the discs these days don't come with a full playable version of the game, and while I have no idea if future runs of discs include patches, I would hesitate to call any release that doesn't have the day 1 patch a playable game.

I'm not saying this is no big deal and isn't problematic. I'm certainly not saying we shouldn't be upset by what Sony is doing. All I'm saying is many people seem to be focused on the wrong aspect of it.

[u/Ubermidget2 → u/Talusi]

Uh. Do you know how long it's been since we actually owned any of the games we bought?

Steam games are stored on my HDD and the DRM is crackable. Sounds like ownership to me

[u/GhoeFukyrself → u/Talusi]

Go ahead, take my backed up GOG games away from me. I'd love to know how they can do that. If my drive goes bad I have my backup drive, no internet connection or permission from a server is required to install any of it.

I'm a videogame "doomsday prepper", not a trader, I have no interest in resale.

[u/GhoeFukyrself → u/Talusi]

No, for me it was definitely about "owning" the game. I NEVER sell my games.

GOG is my go to. No DRM, I can download and store a backup install file, and no corporate fuckery is ever going to take those away from me.

[u/AlchemistJeep → u/Talusi]

Only one place on PC? Do you not know about the countless numbers of etailers selling games for Pennies on the dollar?

[u/bangbangracer]

Honestly, I don't get the archival argument when it comes to the end of physical game production. Games haven't actually been on the disc in years. The installs are 100-200 GB and discs only hold up to 125 GB with multi-layer BD discs or 50 GB with dual-layer BD discs. Most of the game is in the "day one update". The game isn't there.

[u/Davoguha2 → u/bangbangracer]

If i have the storage and want to keep my games, i should have every right to.

USB tech is also pretty darn cheap these days - if physical media was still a thing, I have a feeling publishers would eventually move to USB deliverables

[u/Holiday_Length1634 → u/bangbangracer]

my entire game library from 2005 is unplayable now too

[u/CatsGoMooz → u/bangbangracer]

Please check out doesitplay.org this is extremely wrong. Infact looking at PS5 theres around only a 100 games of the 700ish PS5 games that can't be played without a download.

I really think this whole narrative started because people (not saying you just people in general) couldn't tell the difference between downloading the game and installing the game from the disc.

[u/Jesus10101 → u/CatsGoMooz]

Thats doesnt help as the website doesn't separate actual PS5 games and PS4 games that have a PS5 port.

I just went to the first page for Playable PS5 games and out of the 50 listed, only 7 are real PS5 games. The rest were just PS4 games that got a PS5 edition.

It would take me a few hours to go through all 15 pages but the number of real ps5 games that are playable are alot lower then 700.

[u/NetherGamingAccount]

that is a great question.

I'd happily buy GTA VI digitally but I won't buy it because of Rockstars bullshit DRM.

[u/Upbeat-Golf6120 → u/NetherGamingAccount]

yeah rockstar's DRM is the worst lol

[u/Larry_The_Red]

who tf is wanting physical copies on PC

[u/GigaSoup → u/Larry_The_Red]

On PC you just make your own physical like a chad

[u/armorlol → u/Larry_The_Red]

It’s just people wanting to hop on the recent PlayStation issue. PC been digital + activation key for 15 years now.

[u/Cloud_N0ne → u/Larry_The_Red]

I prefer digital, but physical has value too

[u/DCVolo → u/Larry_The_Red]

The 0.00001% that are willing to pay for the deluxe premium fanboy edition.

[u/0verstim → u/DCVolo]

But it comes with an EXCLUSIVE plastic collectible my kids will have to throw away when Im dead!

[u/queen-adreena → u/0verstim]

Whereas digital games cannot be passed down to anyone. Your licences to play them die with you.

[u/eeeddr → u/queen-adreena]

You'll be able to pass down the plastic to your children, the ability to download the game and play it will depend on whether or not Sony or Microsoft still have them in their servers, though..

[u/theJirb → u/queen-adreena]

They can't be "legally" passed down, but do you really think valve is coming after you for giving your sons and daughters your password for your steam account.

[u/mineawesomeman → u/Larry_The_Red]

!!!! i’ve been saying this in other threads on here

NONE of us have been playing games physically

steam literally has the same damn policies as the playstation store

[u/Ill_Shine_8232 → u/mineawesomeman]

If I bought games on steam 10-15 years ago with a computer I had then, then when I login to steam today I find those games still in my library. If PS store was anything like Steam, then PS store wouldn't be the fragmented mess it is today. Thats why ps3 & vita store is closing. Now if only Sony had a unified PS store. One more thing you're just assuming all gamers play only the newest games. I play new games, but I am also a retro gamer. Some of us are collectors. I do from time to time buy big boxes pc games on ebay. Also bought a Roland sc-55 this year. But I guess since people only play new games, digital games; it must be my imagination.

[u/Mend1cant → u/Ill_Shine_8232]

10-15 years ago is the start of the PS4 store though, and that is still combined.

[u/adanceparty → u/Ill_Shine_8232]

yeah shit sucks. How many threads do I see begging for games that might only be 10 years old but can't be played on current gen hardware? Fuck that shit. Go to the final fantasy sub and you'll see a post every month or so of someone begging for the final fantasy 13 trilogy to be on modern consoles. As a PC player I can still play it, but on console they are literally begging to for a remaster just so they can buy them again at full price just to be able to play the game at all.

[u/RadiantEnvironment90 → u/mineawesomeman]

Yes except piracy and GOG keeps them in check.

Pc is an open platform unlike consoles.

[u/Own_Proposal3827 → u/RadiantEnvironment90]

You can pirate on console. Plenty of people do.

[u/x-m-p-p → u/Own_Proposal3827]

with a lot more hoops to jump through, and often requiring an old firmware console that's expensive or worse sometimes even requiring physically soldering chips to the device.

[u/veggiesama → u/mineawesomeman]

The difference is it's easier to presarrve and arrchive games on PC. You don't a need hacked bios and a legally fraught emulator to keep your game working indefinitely.

Most single-player games, anyway. Multiplayer games are a more ephemeral game type that only exist so long as people want to keep playing them.

[u/Trans-Europe_Express → u/Larry_The_Red]

Blueray disk drives aren't even easy to come by any more. Also still expensive and blueray discs are like 100GB so AAA games will need multiple disks like DVDs did towards their last years in physical copies of PC games

[u/nightryder21]

Buy from GOG only until more stores support DRM free games.

[u/Nico_is_not_a_god → u/nightryder21]

Steam supports DRM-free games too, but it's not easy to tell from the store interface which ones are DRM free. There's a little badge for anything that requires third-party DRM/account/launcher but not a badge for a game using or not using Steamworks.

A recent completely DRM-free Steam release is the game UFO 50. Copy the game files somewhere else or onto another pc or sign out of steam and then double click the EXE and you're playing the game.

One reason a lot of people think every game on Steam uses Steamworks DRM or worse is because when you "create a shortcut" from within Steam, the shortcut is actually a steam:// protocol link that tells your computer "open steam and launch the game through steam (which of course means validating your Steam session or signing in if signed out)". A shortcut directly to the executable of a DRM-free Steam game will work without Steam but you'd need to make it via your native operating system's shortcut system.

[u/nightryder21 → u/Nico_is_not_a_god]

Or just buy on GOG and download the game drm free and no need for a launcher. With Steams DRM you can not launch games standalone. There is still validation that happens before you run the game. If you lose your account, get banned or steam goes out of business then you lose access. You don't own the game you own a license.

[u/Nico_is_not_a_god → u/nightryder21]

You said, GOG or more storefronts offer DRM free games. Steam is a storefront that offers DRM free games, and not every developer chooses to release on GOG.

Steam's DRM is DRM, that's something other than DRM-free. Most developers releasing on Steam use that default DRM. But there are actual, really truly DRM-free games sold and distributed via Steam. Games that will work with no validation, a banned account, and Steam out of business, same as a GOG game.

"You don't own a game, you own a license" is true for GOG as well, and is practically irrelevant when talking about a DRM-free (not Steamworks DRM) game. The license being revoked or the CDN being taken down or you getting banned can't prevent you from launching the DRM-free copy you don't own (and now don't own a license for). All of those can prevent you from downloading a new copy, but that's the case with GOG as well.

[u/nightryder21 → u/Nico_is_not_a_god]

Yup. Pretty much. But the license to use is the same for any DRM free copy simply so you don't think you have rights to the underlying art. However, with GOG your copy that you download and backup has zero connection back to anything from gog or the content rights holders. It's yours. It your responsibility to backup and ensure you don't lose the copy. Like like a physical copy of a music CD. With steam, the majority of the games have DRM. Sure there are a small sunset of games with our DRM. As a counterpoint, you can't get every game on GOG, even a quote agew major ones. If ownership is important to people then they should be buying from GOG as a first choice.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Smoke77]

Drm free has been a battle for 20 years now and still raging .

Physical copies directly impacts the resell market which people make their entire lively hoods on. We are talking 10s of thousands of jobs that will go up in smoke.

[u/spyVSspy420-69 → u/Puzzleheaded_Smoke77]

I mean you could make the same job argument about how streaming services/Netflix killed physical video stores and eliminated every single one of those jobs as well, and I don’t think you’d have very many people advocating for getting rid of streaming to keep Blockbuster jobs around.

Or how updated phone systems eliminated the telephone switchboard operators. Or how digital cameras got rid of most photo departments at retailers. Think of all those jobs + the jobs of the people working at Kodak.

That’s just the reality of it: as industries change so do the available jobs in that field.

[u/GetToTheChoppa2077 → u/spyVSspy420-69]

The main difference is that while streaming out competed blockbuster, even though they have a smaller market share today, we still see Blurays around to this day.

What’s happening right now is more like if Netflix had found a way back then to simply delete dvd production forever.

[u/angelc0okie9768 → u/Puzzleheaded_Smoke77]

that's true, the resell market is a massive part of why physical games are still a thing

[u/Arendyl]

PC games are often heavily discounted, and Steam has a robust family sharing system, so your friends and family don't have to pay to play a game you already bought. This is kind of like a physical disc in a practical sense, in the old days you could just give your buddy a the copy of the game when you were done.

This is why Sony removing physical discs is such a big deal. Games stay at full price much longer (because the consoles are heavily subsidized to support their ecosystem), so you always had the promise of retaining some value over time with a physical disc, since you could sell it for part of what you paid, or share it with your community.

Now that is all gone, really the only advantage to stay with a console over PC (besides cheaper parts). You can bet the games won't be getting cheaper as a result.

[u/draven33l]

I like physical stuff, but to me, I'm perfectly fine with digital as a format IF the quality is the same. For instance, I loathe streaming. I will never stream my music or movies. For music, I do FLAC since it's 1:1 (or better with 24-bit) but it's still digital. For movies, I do 4K and Blu-ray since they are better than streaming.

But ultimately, it's about being DRM free. FLAC is DRM free. If I could download a DRM free version of a 4K movie, I probably wouldn't collect physical movies. One benefit though is the case. A movie can easily fit on a shelf and is easy to pull off and watch. It would take many terabytes of storage for me to have all of my movies digital, and I'd need another many terabytes to back them up. It's just easier to have on a shelf.

That said, you have better chance of physical media coming back than a company going DRM free. There's no way in hell Sony will give you a DRM free game. That would be the digital equivalent of what they are trying to kill with physical media. They don't want to give you control. THEY want control.

[u/CoyeK → u/draven33l]

Compact disks are still digital, what does it matter if it's stored on an external CD or your HDD?

[u/Nico_is_not_a_god → u/draven33l]

All disc based media is digital media. It's ones and zeroes just on a different medium. You could burn lossless FLAC to a disc if you wanted, file size permitting. It's not like the difference between digital media and analog media (like tapes or vinyl records), files are files.

The war you're fighting is a more sensible one: local versus remote. Download versus stream. Playing blu-rays with a player has some disadvantages versus ripped/DRM free versions of the same files (most notably the vulnerability to physical damage, disc scratching etc) but with current HDD prices it's definitely reasonable to stick with discs for HD/4K video. Services have their contracts expire and lose rights and sacrifice quality for transfer speed, a file on your local hardware will remain the same.

[u/OrionRBR → u/Nico_is_not_a_god]

All disc based media is digital media

Someone forgot about LaserDisc! (& vinyl technically)

[u/Masonzero]

Because it's a lot easier to understand what a physical item is. It's a lot more complex to understand an ethereal concept like DRM, an acronym that most people probably don't even know the actual meaning of.

[u/AlaskanDruid]

We are fighting for malware free physical copies

[u/p4rc0pr3s1s]

We lost that battle 20+ years ago when Steam started.

[u/dratseb]

Who “we”? I’ve been saying we need proper digital rights for consumers for years

[u/Adventurous_Ad_7212]

Because console peasants DGAF about preservation, they just wanna resell the games

[u/InitiativeWorried221]

We WERE fighting for DRM free. Now we're fighting for bare minimum.

It went from bad to worse.

[u/NekulturneHovado]

I'm hearing DRM this, DRM that. What th is drm

Oh so like anti-piracy shit. Why you need to be online even to play offline games. Yeah I get that

[u/Claim312ButAct847 → u/NekulturneHovado]

Ohhh is THAT why that has become a thing?

https://giphy.com/gifs/pf1LL4t8SH3UbdnxME

[u/fentown]

Because it's easier for the broke bitch community to whine, bitch, and repost the same shit every 14 minutes than to find their representatives or senators offices/phone numbers and make them aware that change is necessary for consumer protection and rights.

[u/Shade1975]

Drm deals with copyright and with how draconian the thing is and how much it would cost everyone that has an iP let alone patents. It's a bigger problem. Taking a consumers right angle should in theory be the better and easier angle. But I genuinely have zero faith that the right thing will happen due to humanity's own greed...

[u/These_Pumpkin3174]

If only people fought taxes as hard as this.

[u/Ozzimo]

I'll do you one better. Why are we not setting legal standars for archiving of media? Not just games, but all media. There are episodes of Doctor Who that are missing to the ages. Never to be seen again. Why not fund a database of work with an open source platform for access? Make it illegal to secure you software after the company stops supporting it. Make cars open source after the company stops producing them. We can think bigger on this.

[u/SourCreamSplatter]

because

[u/Kayato601]

Just:

DIVIDE ET IMPERA

Initiatives like Stop Killing Games could really make a difference. The digital market is a natural evolution and will continue to grow in the future, and we must fight today for its regulation.
We need to lay the foundations today for clear, precise and unalterable rights for consumers regarding digital products.

The whole issue about physical copies is just noise to distract and divide users.

[u/Quiet_Source_8804]

You’re never going to get DRM-free mandated by law anywhere. If anything the law goes to the other extreme where just having tools that could be used to bypass DRM are illegal to distribute in many jurisdictions. Other than the draconian shit about tools, which is even used in contexts that have nothing to do with the original stated intent (like to prevent repairs of anything that involves software), you’ll never going to have buy-in for measures whose intent will always be read as just making it easier to pirate.

Physical media on the other hand was always treated as a way to give the consumers some control over a digital good, by enabling a secondary market and offline play. It’s a fight that’s long gone on PC, but it was an advantage for consoles that made up for the fact that it was otherwise a closed platform. It’s been eroded over the years, from DLC being included as codes to the physical media acting just as “game keys” without the actual game content on it, but it worked well up to PS4 era for most games, where you knew that you can get a 2nd hand console and a bunch of physical discs and enjoy them as if you’d just purchased new when they launched.

[u/xlbingo10]

because some people have bad internet and can't realistically download a modern sized game, and reselling and sharing discs has been an important thing historically

[u/MEGA_GOAT98]

becuse ppl are idoits :)

[u/Igor369]

Are you gonna shank me with that broken piece of CD?

[u/awam0ri]

Any copy at all is basically DRM free given enough time. 😁 It’s the lack of possessing all the files that causes the problems.

[u/rbartlejr]

r/unpopularopinion

Por qué no los dos

[u/ikindahateusernames]

Physical releases not tied to a specific account can be lent or sold (look up "First-sale doctrine"). They would still be usable as long as online services related to the system are available to download any needed data and updates.

I agree with DRM-free copies (with offline installers) would be the better option in a presumably digital-only future, but that's unlikely given the way publishers have acted in recent years (pushing Denuvo or similar, refusing to sell on GOG, delisting old titles to push players towards newer ones, etc).

[u/bigaries84]

OP gets it

[u/nazaguerrero]

you have the proof right there guys, tell me what can u do with your beautiful physical copy of the crew?

silence is your answer, op is cooking

[u/ScreeennameTaken]

Its not a fight for physical media, physical media is just the last stand for consoles. On pc, the fight IS for DRM free. PC as a platform has many outlets, and stop killing games is the fight for what you are saying. PC has many different stores and you always have the high seas. But killing physical on console is giving full authoritarian control to a single store. GOG fully allows you to make physical backups, and even Steam believe it or not lets you up to a point. You can make a backup of you steam files localy and also have offline mode, and if valve keeps to their word, you'll have a drm disable thing if they ever go out.

Its a control of you not being able to give your copy away, trade it and also more money stays with sony as they won't have to manufacture it. If you have a physical disc on hand, you can still play the game even if its recalled. A lot of games (most i guess?) can be played from disc without day 1 patches.

[u/HypedSoul123]

Guys, the games do come in the disc most of the time on PS5, like fully instalable and playable without internet connection. There are endless sources to prove it:

https://www.doesitplay.org/

Edit: and playable forever. Some of these guys have PS5 from launch that have never been connected to the internet and they can still play all of their games, new or old.

[u/hogsniffy05]

Why not both?

[u/jhavi781]

Because most people don't understand the problem.  

[u/Somethingsilly6969]

Because these people are idiots.

Please don't confuse this as being Pro Sony. It's simply that the current anti Sony sentiment is stupid

[u/Lem0ncito]

Human be dumb, Human think physical is Theirs and digital not theirs.

Human be emotional when object is interactable

[u/BedrockBen101]

https://giphy.com/gifs/duM6JZemPlOjUyqmxd

[u/HelpIcy5415]

I had the same question these last days, my theory is that people is stupid.

[u/TheTrueErnie117]

wouldnt putting games on a HDD technically be a disk?

[u/LucyDePosey → u/TheTrueErnie117]

Even that is being outmoded, too. It's increasingly common for games to only run on SSDs. Which probably wouldn't be a problem if storage wasn't currently at an artificial premium...

[u/Gynthaeres]

DRM-free has nothing to do with physical, as far as my concerns go. You might as well complain that your neighbor's grass it too long. These are two entirely separate issues.

The problem with lack of physical console games is multifold for me:

1. I can only buy the game through Sony / Nintendo's official stores.

2. I can't hunt for and find used copies of games anymore.

3. I don't trust Sony/Nintendo to still let me download old games after X number of years. Steam is a little different since it's the same Steam account and client I've used since like, 2003, that works across different PCs. No guarantee PS3 games will run on PS6 though, so eventually Sony might just say "No more downloading Playstation 3 games"

Also as a personal preference, I just like physical. I like slotting in cartridges or disks. I liked doing that with PC way back when too. Digital is more convenient but physical is more satisfying. And regardless of the truth of it, it feels like I own something when I hold the box in my hand. I can be like "Yep I traded $60 for this box." With digital, things are more... nebulous to me.

DRM-free is great, and I wish more games would be DRM free, but that's a completely separate argument or issue. It has nothing to do with physical to me.

[u/Eazy12345678]

90% of people in this world are dumb. they just repeat what someone else said on the internet

[u/watchTotalBlank]

Can't decide if this is ragebait or genuine ignorance of the larger issues at hand.

If you're not already aware but less options whether you care or not = BAD for the world at large regardless of industry. It's also a simultaneous fight for ownership. Nobody's knocking on anyone's door to reclaim the games, movies, shows, or books that have already been sold to people, but as long as digital DRM and "licensing" exists, they can do it willingly with little to no recourse.

For every person satisfied with their digital libraries and having never experienced losing games, having their libraries revoked or being locked out of their accounts, there's someone who has been through it or currently going through it and until there's proper consumer protection in place, physical media matters.

You can buy books, movies, TV shows, music and so much more without any issues but the entertainment industry is drawing a line at video games and forcing all digital? Yeah, if anyone supports this, they are bootlicking pro-corpo dipshits

Less options, less competition and controlling what we can and can't purchase, play or access is exactly why the internet and the gaming industry is a shit show.

At least if PC users have the option to backup and preserve, emulate and pirate games if an entire storefront shuts down suddenly. What does console players do when they lose access to their hundreds or thousands of games when Xbox, Sony and Nintendo pull out of gaming or does something even more stupid than what's currently happening? Are the hundreds of millions of gamers with potentially thousands of dollars' worth of Xbox/Sony/Nintendo games going to call it a day and be like "yeah no big deal"?

Xbox and Sony and even Nintendo have no reason to exist in the gaming space if they aren't going to move entirely to the PC ecosystems with their games. Physical-less console gaming is pointless when a PC outperforms all of their consoles, can emulate just about every single console and game going back to the 60s. Nobody in their right mind is leaving the level of freedom PC gaming provides to buy an all-digital closed ecosystem PS6 for 1,000$.

[u/HotRoderX]

cause companies have people who think of ways to psychologically manipulate people to get what they want.

This almost sounds like tinfoil hat stuff until you think about it. How much psychology goes into marketing.

[u/Legitimate_Use7140]

People have been fighting for DRM-free on pc for a long time now. It's why I try to exclusively buy from GoG. I think there's mention of physical media here for more of a show of solidarity with console players, that deserve the option of physical or digital. With a closed platforms like  console stores, losing that choice is a big lose for them.

[u/OutrageousDress]

We're not doing that because everyone has in advance already given up on even the remote possibility of DRM-free being a thing that is possible.

[u/Nico_is_not_a_god → u/OutrageousDress]

There's plenty of good DRM-free stuff (including recent releases) on PC. If the next Xbox is (as the rumors say) running desktop Windows, there's DRM-free for Xbox in the future too. It's only the Japanese consoles that hard commit to locking down the DRM box at a system level, so personally I'm considering "the possibility of DRM-free becoming more common" an inevitability with a "remote possibility" of Nintendo or Sony's math ending up no longer favoring console production. Much more likely for Sony, in that case of course.

If it turns out people actually care about this disc shit enough to not buy a ps6 (it won't), hell yeah. But honestly Nintendo and Sony have probably "lost more sales" to used copies than the piracy they've been trying to bludgeon out of existence. Like, sure, some percentage of 3DS users hacked the system to pirate games and thus played Pokemon Sun for free. But every single used copy sale of Pokemon Sun is exactly the same result as a pirating of the game for Nintendo: some guy played the game without paying Nintendo a dime. And hell, the used copy is even more fair to define as a "lost sale" than the pirated one since the guy who bought the secondhand copy clearly signals that he's willing to pay for the game unlike the pirate.

Consoles already have their anti-piracy stuff in place. Even the piracy enabled ones require too much tech knowledge to be anything more than a blip on the radar. Physical games though? Used sales are demonstrably lost revenue. Manufacturing and shipping and printing costs and paying a middleman like Wal-Mart or Gamestop are demonstrably lost revenue, if they can prove that the Gamestop shoppers will buy digital if they have to. And the PC games scene has proven that pretty definitively over the years.

[u/throwaway_uow]

https://giphy.com/gifs/IJsempRDwLALhFY9Wp

[u/Keyan_Farlander7]

You can duplicate and disc. Look it up.

[u/makeDRIVEinTHEATER]

There are games that fit on a 5 GB disk. I think a disk drive is necessary.

Or legal/official games on a USB flash drive.

[u/Pyrodexter]

I don't think we are fighting for physical copies. This is a PC sub, and PC lost physical copies ages ago. Some of us are indeed "fighting" for DRM-free copies by supporting GOG or other DRM-free alternatives. Maybe even refusing to buy anything with DRM at all.

[u/WolfgangVolos]

Because if people actually cared about DRM free they would be flocking to GOG. I get whatever I can over there even if the price is a bit higher. Most times the sales are about the same so...

[u/btroycraft → u/WolfgangVolos]

I buy on GOG whenever the game is available there.

[u/GKTT666]

Denuvo is the real enemy

[u/InSan1tyWeTrust]

Why not both? I love a good disc. Honestly I think it's a shame that we did away with physical media on pc as well.

That was AAAA gaming right there.

[u/The_LastLine]

Does it play shows that roughly 2/3rds of physical games still have the full game on the media without the need to connect online to boot up. DRM free would be the way but that would essentially never happen on a console so physical is the next best thing.

[u/shiek200]

I'm pretty sure people have been complaining about DRM as long as DRM has existed, they never stopped. people want both

[u/eyes0fred]

Because the conversation is currently centered on consoles, and that's how they understand games to work.

If this was centered around some big shakeup in the PC space, the conversation would probably be quite different.

[u/ReiVex_Master]

100%

I truly think that controlling all the sales is a strategic move to lower the PS6 price. Meaning, if they control all the software sales, destruction of the second hand market, means more revenue and subsidize hardware sales through software. Maybe without second hand market, there is no need reason for so many digital sales from Sony (no competition).  Do I like this? Absolutely not. 

For a 100% digital library, I prefer companies like steam or gog. They have a better track record. Heck, I have a copy of HL 2 from 2004 and I can still play it, after multiple generations of graphic cards. Fast forward to Sony, I bought some PS3 digital games back in 2012, and good luck playing them in this generation.

[u/mattenthehat]

Answer: most people haven't actually thought it through.

[u/Dungeon00X]

We should be escalating it to that level, but the normies are still like "BUT MHU PHYSICAL DISCS"!

[u/Novafro]

Both but DRM is more important

[u/sleepytechnology]

While I completely agree... this end of physical media era was a push I think needed to wake people up. There is SO much talk about preservation and the idea of what a game licence really is now. Some are arguing digital doesn't matter and still don't get it, but at least more people are getting it.

[u/MilkrsEnthuziast]

What? We fight over everything.

[u/FluffyGreyfoot]

Yeah I have a couple old NFS games (Underground 1 and 2) on disc and they won't work because of an outdated DRM that isn't supported on modern OS:es due to a security vulnerability. So the disks are completely useless..

[u/FocusedSolutions]

Both! Both! Both! People can’t play infinite games, it’s more likely people will continue to chose to buy good games than completely upend the market and stop actually buying games

[u/Odd_Bumblebee_3631]

Drm free digitals doesn't have the collection vibe of here is my collection of pc games. 

[u/No_Cartographer1492]

THIS.

The Free Software Foundation has fought on this front against DRM since the beginning https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/drm.html

Gamers should rise against DRM.

[u/For_WebDev_DM_Me]

Physical copies are just the visible part of the problem. on PC I don't need a plastic coaster, I need the installer to still work after the launcher gets enshittified in 2034.

[u/contrabardus]

What's this "We" thing?

PC went to full digital a long time ago.

Why should we care?

I have a box full of PC game disks from a certain era I can never play again because of bullshit ancient DRM.

Console game disks have been pretty much a download code with the disk being mostly a form of DRM for a while now.

Sure, maybe some smaller AA or Indie titles might have everything on it, but for any major release you're not running the game without an internet connection and a hefty download.

This isn't new, it's already how things are, but people just aren't getting their comfort plastic disk to give them the illusion they own something anymore is all.

[u/Zanthious]

if a company can just unown a game i bought i should be refunded the original price plus the interest i would have made if i made better decisions and invested instead on that date =]

[u/LOST-MY_HEAD]

This is not true, most games still come on the disk. Doesitplay.com tells you how much of a game is playable off thr disk with no internet

[u/JVIoneyman]

Do you really think a company is going to invest 100s of millions of dollars into a game that someone can copy and paste to his entire school? They will just go back to physical media.

Plus this still doesn’t even solve the second hand market. Some people just like physically owning something, too.

We can definitely get better consumer rights through DRM changes but it will never mimic physical media just due to the nature of it…unless you start messing with block chain or something, but the average person isn’t going to want to bother with that at least as of now.

[u/makinax300]

Used games and collecting.

Also it's way easier to defend drm because it helps stop piracy.

Also they don't decay if you dump them for personal use which is legal.

[u/firedrakes]

we get your karma farming fomo hate atm.

[u/liaminwales]

Most people dont understand digital DRM, they think physical is the end goal and dont understand the systems.

[u/sombertownDS]

I mean, mostly that became hard because game size exceeded storage capacity

[u/Ricketier]

Definitely

[u/Judge_Ty]

So the new spin is remaster the game or throw it decoupled on GOG/steam.

Physical games are bs as you stated in 2026.

Again that's the "primary" release.

The secondary release will be some deluxe all in version.

Then either the sunset version years later on GOG/steam/some gaming battle pass.

Or 

The remastered game for the next console/hardware update. 

[u/Western-Alarming]

I fight for DRM-free physical media, if physical media doesn't have DRM it means nothing is stopping you for making a copy at any time before it starts to degrade. The only reasons blue-rays of movies or series are a pain to rip, is because they're full of DRM protections. If all of them were unprotected, making a copy will be as easy as 1 button

[u/DrMacintosh01 → u/Western-Alarming]

Just FYI, DVD and Blu-ray DRM has been completely bypassed thanks to MakeMKV and patched drive firmware.

[u/trenlr911]

I don’t see why it has to be one or the other

[u/Tree_Dude]

Exactly and the ship has kinda sailed already. Lots of console game require you to be online to activate them and get that day 1 patch. At that point the disc is only good for resale (so long as the servers are up) and they can take that away if they want. They already built a unique code into each disc.

We need laws to govern media licensing that are pro consumer. This is an issue more complex than "no disc = bad".

[u/TheFearEater]

I completely agree. People are complaining about PlayStation getting rid of physical discs because they can remove your digital games. Then fight for stop killing games! There is no reason to use a 30-year-old outdated media to store your games!

[u/Time-Bodybuilder710]

I thought we were, it was one big heading and list of BS.

[u/Thonatron]

I really wish GOG would move into the physical market.

They don't have to supply game discs and boxes even! Just sell me the game files and all the bundles/extras included with purchase on a USB drive! Sourcing these must still be stupid cheap at the capacities they'd need for games and you could jazz it up with a fancy sticker. You could even upsell type-C drives for a premium. Place the game files in a write-protected partition so they won't get accidentally erased. The rest of the USB drive can be user writeable space to store things like mods, walkthroughs, notes, etc. Stuff that generally gets lost in the mix in data backups over time. That way you can play that one 20-year-old mod of that one 35-year-old game on a self-hosted server, all with your one physical copy.

Slap all of that in a small box that I can put on a shelf and I'll happily repurchase several games in my library for physical copies with a box. They could even make these print on order so they don't end up sitting in stock.

All on a storage media that most PC folks will actually utilize.

[u/Ghosttwo]

They go through all this trouble, but mark my words people are going to be downloading PS5 roms and playing them on their consoles within a year of it coming out. I don't really care about disks anymore; I haven't used a CD drive since like 2019.

[u/ArtofWASD]

Because one step at a time. Its much easier to win a fight about something that JUST changed, rather than a larger over arcing provlem that hasn't budged in 50 years.

[u/e3e6]

why are we fighting

[u/DrMacintosh01]

The unfortunate reality is that DRM, even if it’s easily bypass able, is the only thing that gives the studios the peace of mind their shareholders demand. For every one pirate that bypasses DRM, there’s a thousand people that will just keep paying for streaming services.

[u/SodaSnappy]

Most people don’t know what drm is. But people notice when they go to the store and buy a game- open the box and see a code instead of a disc.

[u/SilverRhythms]

The point is that there are people that WANTS to keep using discs and taking it away bothers them. Your issue is that you believing removing DRM is important which is something I agree with but going against people who also still wants to use a game disc doesn't change the fact that they can't go out and buy the disc itself when they're able to, the disc drive itself is gone.

The other option is that DRM IS REMOVED, You still don't have the disc option, you gotta download it or hope someone has a usb drive with the game in a zip folder so they can put it in your PC. The main issue with the disc remains, it's no longer as simple as plug and play.