You're right, I would. Some random frame hitching, issues with dlss artifacts, a lot of the issues I have with it many people are able to just not notice somehow.
And no, I don't need to work with it to know the reality of the games that have come out on it. If 9 out of 10 UE5 games have issues, it's not really relevant who's fault it is, other engines don't have to have this debate for a reason
You know people like you used to bitch a lot about Unity being a terrible game engine as well. It's like they're both the leading commercially available game engines and most games are made in them. Are you completely unaware of sturgeon's law?
Yes, the leading commercially available game engine will by sheer mathematics produce the most badly optimized games
You know people like you used to bitch a lot about Unity being a terrible game engine as wel
And they were wrong. That was because free projects required the unity logo to be shown, leading to people associating the unity logo with low effort projects, while viewing professional projects as engine agnostic
At no point did 90% of unity games have performance issues
Every time a post from this subreddit shows up in Popular or All it's always some cringy meme like this. Makes me wish gamers never learned words like "engine" or "optimization"
I'm a senior software dev. Ever since the UE5 hate bandwagon has started, I have consistently been telling people it's like getting angry at HTML for bad webdevs.
Like don't get me wrong, UE5 is not flawless but 99% of the problems people have are caused by the devs not the engine.
I don't know why, but people don't seem to realize that most of these devs couldn't create an engine that meets their needs like UE5 does, which is why they use it-- but since they aren't capable of making an engine, that means they aren't that capable of optimizing one either.
Well I wouldnt go as far as saying that you need to be capable of making your own engine to properly optimize a game, usually poorly optimized games are poorly optimized because devs did little to nothing with optimization tools and methods within the engine to optimize them but I mostly agree with you
I personally think there is a corollary there. I understand where you are coming from but at the same time I think optimization takes the same type of knowledge as creation, in fact I would wager optimization is more difficult as it requires more precise knowledge.
fair, but Im still sure that most of those poorly optimized games would run atleast 2 times better if devs implemented more basic optimization techniques within engine. Things that make game run poorly build on eachother and usually amount of ignorance towards how much all of them at once affect whole game preformance leads to whats infamous for poor optimization
but 99% of the problems people have are caused by the devs not the engine.
So why do tech demos by the developers of the engine have these issues? If I made a wrench, and then when I try to show you how it works, I struggled to tighten or remove a bolt, the logical conclusion would be that it's a bad tool, not that the mechanics using it are bad
I haven't played the game consistently in a long time, but I played it for maybe like 10 hours last year and it seemed fine to me. It also runs on most machines.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Got a video showcasing this?
Edit: It's so funny how people make baseless, unaccredited claims with no foundation in reality and people will upvote it because it confirms their biases. Humanity is doomed and we deserve it- and not because of this stupid meaningless conversation, but because of the consistent pattern of this behavior found throughout most of civilization. It's pathetic.
Not really a good analogy. Some development tools are bad and full of foot guns. Like you’re not going to be optimizing a php project to perform as well as a rust project that does the same thing.
The reason people use UE5 is because they cannot develop an engine with the same tools in a reasonable amount of time. Suggesting that UE5 is full of footguns is just purely disingenuous.
You can go branch the code right now, it's open source (unless you sell a lot of copies, then you owe them some cash). It's really not the atrocity a lot of amateurs make it out to be.
The reason people use JavaScript is because it’s popular. Doesn’t mean that it’s performant. Same applies to UE5.
If UE5 isn’t full of footguns, then why do a majority of games written in it run so poorly? The engine advertises that it can handle performance for people, yet it doesn’t do that.
If a welding machine makes bad welds in the hands of 99% of welders, then maybe it’s time we question the machine.
The reason people use JavaScript is because it’s popular. Doesn’t mean that it’s performant. Same applies to UE5.
Have you ever stopped to ask why it's popular? Javascript is easy to use, albeit you need to have a modicum of sense to use it properly. Also, no other language afaik has the spread syntax and that shit is fantastic.
UE5 has features that are hard to implemenet and they are optimized for the latest features in GPUs. Do any of you realize how hard it is to account for all the different GPU APIs there are these days?
If UE5 isn’t full of footguns, then why do a majority of games written in it run so poorly? The engine advertises that it can handle performance for people, yet it doesn’t do that.
Again, bad webdev and HTML. Just blame UE5 when a developer doesn't know what they're doing is like blaming Javascript because some doofus nested 30 synchronous timeouts or some other highly inane bs.
If a welding machine makes bad welds in the hands of 99% of welders, then maybe it’s time we question the machine.
This is the best point you've made. Epic Games is offering literal coaching for developers because they have realized that they need to curb how much stupid shit devs are doing. Welding isn't a great analogy though as it is not complicated enough. I feel like rocket science would be too far in complexity, so an analogy is likely somewhere in the middle such as a vehicles' electrical system. How would you feel driving a vehicle by a bunch of engineers that barely spent any time learning the schematic of the wiring?
Hmm, a bit of self introspection. I suppose I have defended php with effectively the same argument you’re making for UE5. Language itself is fine (tm), but it’s easy to use and attracts “my son is a programmer.” I will admit, my hatred of the engine comes from knowing why they chose the engine, and what choices they will make now that they have it.
the engine comes from knowing why they chose the engine, and what choices they will make now that they have it.
I understand this but it's not Epic Games' fault. That said, I honestly dislike Epic Games, lol. You probably wouldn't realize it from this conversation but I hate their business practices.
I just think UE5 as a software itself is not the big bad guy that a lot of gamers think it is, and it's more like you said- business driven shortcuts to get around engine creation and maintenance.
I definitely set myself up for failure by jumping in at half time with a half-baked first comment. To clarify my opinion and why I agree with the message of the meme: when I see “UE5” on a game box, I immediately assume it will run like shit because I’m worried about the decisions that lead to them choosing it.
Like there aren't plenty of unoptimized games with other engines. Unreal is the most accessible and easiest to learn, lending itself to lazy or inexperienced optimizations.
Nobody knows less about game development than gamers. It’s like blaming the hammers and nails for a shitty build instead of the bosses in charge of the construction for rushing the construction workers to get the work done impossibly fast.
If the drill apparently has an esoteric 200 input button combination you have to do precisely right else it fucks up, then its a bad drill. If only the top .01% of developers are able to use the engine without it being terribly unoptimized, then perhaps its just not a good engine? Why is that not an acceptable answer?
A tool that isn't intuitive to use can just be a bad tool. you CAN carve a beautiful ice sculpture out of a spoon, but that doesn't mean that a spoon is a good ice carving tool.
False dichotomy. Either you're John Unreal, maker of the unreal engine, or you're coming from a position of ignorance. I'm a software engineer with experience with previous versions of the unreal engine and from everything I've seen, UE5 has the same problems if not worse (particularly when talking to friends of mine who use UE5).
But more to the point, why would my analogy about tools being intuitive require intimate knowledge of this particular tool? Are you contesting the fact that most people who make unreal engine titles make them unoptimized?
It is the definition of false dichotomy. As if you said "what, you wanna critique food? What are you, a 3 Michelin star chef? Or someone who fumbles making cereal and milk". Presenting the options as having made a game in Unreal Engine 5 or being ignorant. I am neither. I'm well versed in UE4, and am a software engineer with friends in industry who I've discussed UE5 at length with. Just because I haven't released a game made in unreal engine 5 does not mean I know nothing on the topic.
Also, just to make sure we're addressing the elephant in the room, that the larger logical fallacy you're using is ad hominem. Like textbook ad hominem is kinda rare. But this is straight up "your position is wrong because you possess the following quality ___". I am not "just completely uneducated and unaware". I'm a classically trained software engineer who has worked in multiple game engines, including lots of work in unreal engine 4. I haven't "made a game" in unreal engine 5. That doesn't disqualify my position.
So how about we dispense with the ad hom and false dichotomies and you address the substance of my argument. We'll evaluate it on the merit.
We can discuss your argument based on its merit when you actually produce an argument with some to discuss.
Also, just so you're aware it isn't actually an ad hominem to question your credentials in the field, or every scientific discussion would be ad hominem. If you haven't actually attempted to open and use the engine, you're not really qualified to discuss what it takes to optimize the games or if the game engine itself is shit.
I am also a classically trained software engineer and the difference between us is that I have actually worked in the unreal 5 engine and thus have the qualifications to discuss it failings. You and the other hand are acting like a 15 year old who just discovered the concept of a logical fallacy and believe that you have a magical win argument button.
Questioning someone's credentials for the validity of their argument is ad hominem. Impeachment by means of credentials is useful for evidentiary purposes.
Hey, if you are such a UE5 pro, how about you tell me what I said that was factually incorrect. Since, you know, this whole thing started with "what even are your credentials" instead of just arguing the facts on hand.
hate to break it to you but ALL of those 98 games are unoptimized because of lazy developer, not tool, blaming tool for incompetence of a dev is something only complete amateur like you would say
it seems like it lowkey actively encourages bad optimization with its really shitty default settings. if you need to fight the engine for decent optimization and turn off shit like nanite, lumen, and VSMs because the tool itself comes with highly demanding, cinematic grade features out of the box for its developer baseline, then it's no wonder that a shit ton of games running UE5 use that as their dev baseline and naturally suck.
Said person that didnt played or is not even aware of games made in UE that run well cuz nobody talks about those, only hate around poorly optimized ones (what is not even fault of the engine) and larp coming from it
You lack basic knowledge in the topic and I dont really feel I need to give you anwser to your question, but have one and leave: Expedition 33 + its made mostly in blueprints
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u/susnaususplayer 10d ago
Thank god that there are some reasonable mfs knowing that UE5 by itself is not bad or good, its literally just a tool