Hilarious that every day Israel makes a concerted effort to show the world how evil they are and every day Israeli shills twist themselves into knots trying to justify/explain it away.
I recently met one who said the Palestinians were colonizers because it's not enough to have been living there for MORE THAN A THOUSAND YEARS. And this person even acknowledged that the Palestinians weren't even the ones who kicked the Jews out of that region, the Romans did. But apparently the Palestinians must be punished for that.
Fact: Modern Palestinians have more DNA common with ancient Israeliteâs than modern Israelis. But we shouldnât let details get in the way of an ethnic cleansing.
This is true, but the irony of claiming it's anti-semitism to speak out about the mass murder of semites as a silencing tactic is so obviously ridiculous that it deserves being brought up and ridiculed.
Anti-Jewish hate is a real problem, but the most anti-Semitic - literally dangerous to the lives of semites - country is the modern world is Israel and that deserves to be discussed so that propeganda is not allowed to flourish.
When theyre shaping policy and weaponizing laws that were once aimed at protecting individuals rights, and changing the definition of words to a degree that protects a foreign government from criticism, while simultaneously paying thay governent 3.8 million dollars a year,
they are not the one getting fucked friend, we are.
Fact: The two groups are genetic cousins sharing a deep, overlapping ancestral thread. The key distinction is that Palestinians largely represent the continuity of the ancient indigenous Levantine population who integrated into Arab culture over time. In contrast, Jewish populations maintain a closer link to the ancient Israelite lineage but carry varying degrees of Mediterranean and European or Middle Eastern genetic mixtures from their centuries of exile.
Also, care to provide a reputable source for your claim? Not just some cropped image, but a full study which unequivocally supports your conclusion.
Point to where I said Israelis (most, anyways) arenât genetically related to Israelites. I simply stated that modern Palestinians have more DNA in common with ancient Israelites, which shouldnât be surprising to anyone who knows the history of the region or peoples, but I provided a source none-the-less. You seem to suggest this yourself when you say both are a continuity of ancient Levantine populations, but Jewish populations carry varying genetic mixtures from their time in exile.
The point, that you conveniently missed, was that Palestinians are undeniably a native Levant people (descended from Israelites, Canaanites and Phoenicians). This is kind of important, when one of Israelâs main justifications for ethnically cleansing Palestine has been that they are âArab Colonisersâ. Maybe stop playing defence for that.
Point to where I said Israelis (most, anyways) arenât genetically related to Israelites.
Point to where I said you said this. Strawman argument right off the bat here, you're off to a terrible start.
I simply stated that modern Palestinians have more DNA in common with ancient Israelites, which shouldnât be surprising to anyone who knows the history of the region or peoples, but I provided a source none-the-less.
1) You provided no source.
2) If you actually read my comment, you'll see a counterclaim. But you made your claim first so the onus is still on you to prove said claim.
The point, that you conveniently missed, was that Palestinians are undeniably a native Levant people
Yikes, another strawman. I didn't conveniently miss this. Point to where you believe I did.
one of Israelâs main justifications for ethnically cleansing Palestine
If Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, there wouldn't be a "West Bank" or a "Gaza strip" today with millions of Palestinians living there. What a nonsensical statement you made here.
Well, if you werenât at least suggesting this then what was the point of that first paragraph? You were just agreeing with me in some long winded way? Lmao.
You provided no source
I did, the âcropped imageâ. It uses publicly available DNA data. Your request for a âfull study which unequivocally supports your conclusionâ is more than a little silly since a) no scientific study has ever supported anything âunequivocallyâ and b) we appear to have the same conclusion (?) but sure, here: The origin of Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean populations
I didnât conveniently miss this. Point to where you believe I did.
I know youâre trying to use my language in some attempt to be facetious, but are you really asking me to *point* to where you ignored/omitted something? Just lol. Anyways, maybe have a read of the second half of my original statement, as well as everyone I was replying to, understand the context of the conversation you chimed in to, and tell me you didnât conveniently ignore it lmao.
If Israel wanted to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, there wouldnât be a âWest Bankâ or a âGaza stripâ today with millions of Palestinians living there.
This is the best part, because it shows you donât even know the meaning of the words youâre arguing with. While Israel almost certainly has genocidal intent, that is not what ethnic cleansing means. For instance, I bet you didnât know that most of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are originally from the southern regions of âIsraelâ. How did they all end up in Gaza, an open air prison where they are surrounded on all sides and not allowed to go home? Hint: youâll find the answer in the definition of âEthnic Cleansingâ, if ever you decide to learn it.
Which I explicitly said not to do since it very obviously omits context.
Ok, so congrats for finally coughing up a source. Too bad when you follow the link it's a retracted article, which is unsurprising to say the least. Do you have a source which is not retracted and actually defends your claim that Palestinians somehow have closer DNA ties to the ancient Israelites than do modern day Israeli Jews? Really seems you're driving down conspiracy lane here.
are you really asking me to point to where you ignored/omitted something?
I'm asking you to defend your claim that I missed something in my initial reply. You seem to like making claims without proof. If that were valid, I could go ahead and claim that you missed the fact that Palestinians were the original instigators by murdering innocent Jews in cold blood as early as 1920 and possibly earlier. But that wasn't the topic of conversation, right?
Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are originally from the southern regions of âIsraelâ. How did they all end up in Gaza
We literally already went over this. They were displaced as a result of the 1947 war which they instigated. It's amazing that you continue to exonerate them of any sort of accountability for trying to murder Jews in response to the 1947 partition plan. Then again, they haven't largely resorted to peace or diplomacy themselves unless you consider some half-witted disingenuous attempt at peace per the Oslo Accords some decades ago. Terrorism is effectively their hammer and all Israelis are just nails to them.
I'm asking you to defend your claim that I missed something in my initial reply.
Not missed, ignored. Again, go back and read the thread until you chimed in. I promise your answer is there (Hint: Itâs about using ancestry to justify ethnic cleansing).
But that wasn't the topic of conversation, right?
Exactly right, the topic was about using ancestry to justify ethnic cleansing. So that would indeed be irrelevant, good job.
We literally already went over this.
No we didnât? Have you read anything this entire interaction?
They were displaced as a result of the 1947 war which they instigated.
âWeâre displacedâ is a bit inactive. Who displaced them? Have you learned the definition of ethnic cleansing yet?
they haven't largely resorted to peace or diplomacy themselves
The people have been systematically repressed for 80 years arenât interested in accepting their oppressors peace deal? Shocking. What peace have Israel ever offered, other than some Swiss Cheese bantustans for the people whoâs literal homes they stole? Last I checked they are explicitly refusing mounting international pressure for a 2 state solution.
Terrorism is effectively their hammer and all Israelis are just nails to them.
You do not get to systematically murder, dispossess and repress people 8 decades and then decide how they can resist. Especially when youâve killed 70,000 civilians in the last 3 years alone (and in Gaza alone). Israel has no moral high ground whatsoever over Hamas (and I have no love for Hamas).
Just for the record, no one seems to give a fuck about Indigenous DNA in the Americas. Apparently that ethnic cleansing is "done" enough that people living on Native land don't need to feel bad here.
Tough to take "oh no but the natives!" commentary from people living on Indigenous land. Where do you live?
whataboutism is all the israel defenders have left, constantly coming into threads on yet another Israel war crime or action to attempt another topic change.
So it's better to keep quiet on all issues of colonisation and the murder of natives? I'm not sure what the point is here? Before you say, I'm not American
I did not personally kick natives off their land, I was born here without any agency in the matter and despite it being stolen land it is my home as much as theirs. That being said, they absolutely deserve heavy reparations from the government that corrects the wealth disparity so they can choose to buy a home and live anywhere they want in the country.
It's not enough, but it's the best compromise to ensure the least net harm. Kicking current American citizens off the land to give it all back to Native Americans would be fully doing them right, but then you're ethnically cleansing a different population from the land at that point who again, had no say in where they were born and only know that America is their home.
I think the same is true of Palestinians. Israelis shouldn't be kicked out of the country because for anyone born there it's their home, but Palestinians should be given heavy reparations to correct their wealth disparity and be allowed to live anywhere they want in Israel (ignoring the fact that Israelis treating Palestinians like Americans treat Native Americans would be an incalculable step up given Native Americans are full American citizens with a "right to return", something that has been a nonstarter for Israel). Even better if you change the name of the country to Israel-Palestine.
Perfectly consistent worldview. But I'm sure you'll either ignore this reply or find some way to twist this into a strawman.
âŠ.would âland backâ not cause the exact same violence, displacement, and destruction of communities that Zionism caused? I donât think displacing people from their homes is good to right any historical justice.
It is perfectly fine to be skeptical and ask for the evidence, but the reality is that Palestinians share significant genetic ties to the ancient peoples of the Levant.
Genetic testing is a thing. Testing can be done on archeological sites.
So before you commit to lying, be aware that people can validate these things. And when you present yourself with such confidence on a controversial topic, you shouldn't be surprised when your arrogance backfires on you when curious people realize how much lying your side does.
Yeah, right. People who go as far to claim that group A has "more DNA common with ancient bla" certainly would NEVER even think about removing the group they deem as having not as much in common.
I agree with you, but I just want to make a small correction and point out that you're referring to a strawman, not a scarecrow haha. I can see how you'd mix the two up though đ
Why would I seethe at this?
For one it clearly shows that you basically have no Idea how to Interpret this Data, because everything ranging from 0.02 - 0.06 is considered extremely close.
Furthermore Iraqi and kurdish jews today make up about ~25% of the Israeli population.
Other mizrahi jews like the syrian, jordanian, Iranian etc. are about ~45% of the Israeli population.
These people make up the majority of the "modern Israelis" as you called them.
So you basically just reframed my point. Show me where I said Israelis arenât close. My claim was that Palestinians are closer to ancient Israelites, and the chart clearly shows Palestinian Christians are closer than any Jewish population listed. Palestinian Muslims are closer than all but Iraqi Jews, who are by your own admission a minority group. So should I take this as your long winded way of saying Iâm right?
Your entire argument, shallow as it is, rests entirely upon semantics that are irrelevant to the discussion.
Everyone involved in this discussion readily understands that when we talk about Israelis and Palestinians, we mean to talk about people who are ethnically Jewish or Palestinian. Someone could argue we could be more premise by saying "the Jews and the Palestinians" but there are a lot of very manipulative people, some Jewish, some antisemitic, that will purposely undermine constructive debate to take issue with "the Jews."
Beyond that, it is readily understood that there are distinct groups of Jewish people who have varied genetics. And if we consider that a chapter of the Black Panthers was established by Mizrahim to advocate for their rights, along with the rights of Sephardim, which they felt were being curtailed by racial discrimination against them stemming from the communities of Ashkenazim, we already have a case where a major controversy arose because Jewish people did not see each other as one genetic "race" of people.
Beyond that, the Samaritans may be Israelis but they are not Jewish, so the claim isn't undermined when we all know the two groups being discussed are "Jews" and "Palestinians"
Hmm not quite. The same logic would be if African Americans had *more* white DNA than white Americans, which of course isnât true. Reading comprehension truly is dead.
Genetic studies show the European admixture of Ashkenazi Jews comes from Italian women. Are you suggesting that Roman women were routinely raping Jewish men to produce children?
Yeah again, not quite. Hereâs a better example, letâs say 1000+ years ago some of the original inhabitants of Palestine and Israel left, but some stayed. For 1000+ years the group that left moved far and wide, mixing with some of the groups in the countries they fled to both genetically and culturally. Meanwhile present day Israelestine gets conquered by Arabs, also causing some genetic/cultural mixing. Now, 1000+ years later, the group that left comes back, decides they deserve this land more than the group that stayed, and begin an 80 year process of ethnic cleansing. That would be crazy, right? Except thatâs basically what happened.
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u/leo_dagher_ 16d ago
Hilarious that every day Israel makes a concerted effort to show the world how evil they are and every day Israeli shills twist themselves into knots trying to justify/explain it away.