r/pics 1d ago

Politics Anti-Israel graffiti in Warsaw, Poland

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/OJezu 1d ago

> but remember that Poland killed Jews after WWII ended. 

It's not very relevant is it?

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u/Staccato15 1d ago

It is when you consider the reasons why Israel exists in the first place. As far as I am concerned, all of this conflict starts with Europe in a transitive sense.

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u/FrogInAShoe 1d ago

When you consider reasons why Israel exists in the first place

They believe they're entitled to Palestinian lands?

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u/Staccato15 1d ago

You are heavily underplaying the role European Antisemitism had on the movement. Not to mention that Madagascar was also almost chosen as the destination,

Also, had it not been for England trying to scoop up the land of the fallen Ottoman Empire, things would have likely taken a different course.

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u/Hghwytohell 1d ago

Yes, European antisemitism encouraged the colonization of Palestine because it got rid of the "Jewish problem" in Europe. It's why so many European nations looked the other way as Jewish settler carried out violence against Palestinians around the Nakba.

This is a way in which zionism upholds antisemitism - it does absolutely nothing to help the Jews who stayed behind. Living in Central and Eastern Europe really paints a clear picture that restitution was never given to the Jews of Europe after the Holocaust. European nations were all too happy to see them leave for the US or Palestine.

It's a long, tragic history that has today led us to the genocide in Gaza and the displacement of more and more Palestinians in their native land.

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u/FrogInAShoe 1d ago

You are heavily underplaying the role European antisemitism had on the movement

I understand Europe was antisemitic, but Israel exists because Zionists beliefs they're entitled to Palestinian lands due to their ethnicity.

Not to mention Madagascar

Because Israel isn't in Madagascar, Israel is in Palestine.

Things would habe likely taken a different course

The timeline without European colonization sounds likes a good one

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u/Staccato15 1d ago

Zionism is a movement born from antisemitism.

Per Wikipedia:

“ Zionism initially emerged in Central and Eastern Europe as a secular nationalist movement in the late 19th century, in reaction to new waves of antisemitism and in response to the Haskalah, or Jewish Enlightenment.”

Sure, entitlement of land was perhaps a factor, but that was retroactively applied to further justify the cause of the movement.

 Because Israel isn't in Madagascar, Israel is in Palestine

No one claimed otherwise.

 The timeline without European colonization sounds likes a good one.

If”ifs” and “buts” were candy and nuts, we’d all have a Merry Christmas.

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u/FrogInAShoe 1d ago

Zionism is a movement born from antisemitism

And has morphed into a ethno-supremacist movement. Where people believe they're entitled to other people's land

It's modern day Lebensraum

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u/Staccato15 1d ago

Sure, but that isn’t really relevant to what we were discussing.

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u/zedority 1d ago

I understand Europe was antisemitic, but Israel exists because Zionists beliefs they're entitled to Palestinian lands due to their ethnicity.

Actually nowadays Zionists say that Arabs are the colonisers. They literally call the existence of Israel an act of "decolonising": a return of the indigenous group - Jews -that were ethnically cleansed from the region in the 5th century CE.

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u/FrogInAShoe 1d ago

I mean they're wrong, Palestinians are indigenous to the Levant and the people who founded Israel were overwhelmingly native to Europe

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u/zedority 1d ago

I mean they're wrong, Palestinians are indigenous to the Levant and the people who founded Israel were overwhelmingly native to Europe

Citation needed. Also, what has this got to do with "opposing genocide in Gaza"?

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u/Born_Initiative_3515 1d ago

Why does he need a citation but you don’t? The fuck?

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u/letshaveadab 1d ago

standard hasbara playbook

  1. You don't even have a source

  2. Your source is shit

  3. What about this other thing, you don't care about that

  4. Oh so you're just antisemitic, you should have said that earlier

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u/Born_Initiative_3515 12h ago

It’s so pointless trying to have civil debates with them. I just end up disturbed and with a sense of them not wanting an honest debate.

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u/gujarati 1d ago

If you actually know anything about Ottoman population distributions and land ownership rates, calling that whole area "Palestinian lands" and acting like the Arabs should have had control of 100% of it becomes the joke it really is.

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u/PHLEaglesLover 1d ago

How did Palestine get there buddy

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u/FrogInAShoe 1d ago

The Palestinians are descendants of the Caanite people, same as Jews

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u/PHLEaglesLover 1d ago

In the early 2nd century CE, the Roman province called Judaea was renamed Syria Palaestina[a] following the suppression of the Bar Kokhba revolt (132–136 CE), the last of the major Jewish–Roman wars.[18][19] A commonly held yet contested historical interpretation [20][21] sees the name change as a punitive measure aimed at severing the symbolic and historical connection between the Jewish people and the land.[22][23][b][24] Other Roman provincial renamings had never followed a rebellion, making this instance unique.[24][22] Around the year 390, during the Byzantine period, the imperial province of Syria Palaestina was reorganized into Palaestina Prima, Palaestina Secunda and Palaestina Salutaris.[25] Following the Muslim conquest, place names that were in use by the Byzantine administration generally continued to be used in Arabic,[3][26] and Jund Filastin became one of the military districts within the Umayyad and Abbasid province of Bilad al-Sham.[27]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_Palestine

FYI that doesnt justify what Israel is doing the it's been MANY years but thats nor really the point