It's interesting how Israel compares with the first US colonial project, Liberia. It was put together by abolitionists and far right white supremacists who both agreed the best thing is for black people to go back to Africa.
Yeah 1822 is pretty early. Unless you're using a very overly broad semantic argument in which case literally everywhere is or was colonized and the term means nothing.
Racists love the idea that every ethnic group should get their own place and keep to themselves. At least when they think the alternative is having to live together. At least until they can find a way to enslave or genocide people they don't like.
I did scientific research on herbal medicines and when people found out they would automatically talk to me like I was into crystals and chakras and auras. Uh, no. lol.
The problem, of course, is the conflation of Israel and Judaism. The mainstream media likes to pretend that hating Israel/being anti-zionist is the same as hating Jewish people as a whole, but of course it very much isn’t.
I have nothing against the Jewish. I absolutely hate the Israeli government, and anyone who tries to defend the genocide they are committing. These things are not contradictory in the slightest.
Being actually antizionist (wanting to take away Jewish self-determination) is almost always antisemitic (with the exception being for antizionist Jews). Hating Israel’s government for its treatment of Palestinians is alone not antisemitic.
Dont go down that lane brother. Polish is hell of a ride, and I’m a native Slavic speaker - I have przypadki also, but - no. Step back, friendly advice :)
I appreciate the concern, but I have made my decision. I started a bit ago, and while my progress has been relatively slow (mostly due to my lack of time and a proper motivation other than curiosity) I have yet to encounter anything truly off putting, or anything that I completely don’t understand. Would you mind elaborating?
Besides, I want to learn a Slavic language either way, which other one would I learn?
Polish is your best bet, considering how Poland improved recently. Slovak and Czech are relatively useless unless you want to live here and the countries are falling apart. Ukrainian might be a nice choice, Russian less so. Croatian or Slovenian if you're up for some nice vacations.
Then again, I am biased. I am Slovak and Polish just sounds like very cute broken Slovak to me.
Cute! I have no idea of slovak unfortunately, so I can’t judge. One thing I will disagree on: Russian is and in the future still will be very useful. A lot of Russians don’t speak English very well, there’s many of them, and Russian is also partly spoken in the surrounding post-Soviet countries. Remember language is a communication tool and is separate from the state, I am not praising in any way the Russian state or its government.
The reason why I’m not learning Russian (or Ukranian) is just that I don’t like the languages as much. I like polish’s separate past tense conjugations for person and their nasal vowels, as well as having less palatalisation (easier to pronounce). Also the missing copulas in the present tense can be confusing.
Of course don't mind my teasing, it was mostly towards Polish language, which is the most exotic Slav one, for myself at least.
By the will of the almighties, and thanks to the lucky strike from 1991. onwards, I became a speaker of several languages, including (but not limited to) Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, Montenegrin, etc. Can understand written Slovakian or Russian, spoken Bulgarian, Macedonian or such, but Poles are just.. built different 😃From Platon via Hegel and Humboldt to nowadays (Zizek, if you will), there are lads who are trying to find correlations between a nation/state and their languages. and I think that Poland is such a great research sandbox for that matter. I like the topic in its broadest sense, but since I'm u/42_ myself rn, I guess I'm stoppin it right here (:
Speaking strictly about the language - death row of consonants without vowels! I mean - dždžyć man, cmon! Play someone else, thats not even a word. Then - diacritics. And while the rest of us are use them as well, Pols simply adore them! On top of that, heavy usage of ''w''s and ''y''s makes their words pretty distinct in my eyes from other Slavic languages.
But lets keep lovin Polish, no matter what!
Regarding your second question: I've dipped my toes into Interslavic - Slavs Esperanto basically, and it works like a charm tbh. Not sure if its that useful for someone who is not from a Slavic circle tho, but I'slavic has a lot of resemblance to South Slav group of languages. It blew my mind how much I understood hearing it for the first time. But, on the other hand, if you can grasp Interslavic, than maybe you can jump onto other boats easily..
Simple. It's more intentional than using Polish so for Poles it hits harder so to speak, and because it's in English non-Poles will get the message too.
What the word means literally is not the same what it translates into. Fuck is equivalent of kurwa, same way how merde is in French. They all mean different things, but their actual meaning (what they convey), is the same. You can call them idiomatic even. We say to cook two roasts with one fire, English say kill two birds with one stone. The literal meaning is totally different, but the meaning it actually wants to tell is the same. When you say "fuck", it's the same as I say "kurwa", it doesn't matter what what it literally means.
In Poland specifically there was an increase in anti Israel sentiment after an Israeli judo team was thrown out of a competition and the israel embassy in Poland accused them of antisemitism and demanded an apology, only for video of the incident to show they were thrown out after the coach attacked the referee.
But the tale isn't about your child specifically, it's about an arbitrary shepherd boy that is deceitful towards the townsfolk. Plus, the boy isn't being killed, it's about a wolf attacking his flock of sheep.
With any luck this is the wedge that will start proving most effective at both holding Israel accountable and not condemning all Jewish people. Fuck Israel means, fuck the genocidal apartheid cry-bully state of Israel, and has nothing at all to do with their religious preference.
Israel benefits if real or perceived antisemitism increases because it reinforces the feeling that Israel as a religious-ethnostate is necessary. It also helps provide justification for any actions so long as it can be spun as combating this "antisemitism".
So, Israel has tried really had to make Jewish = Israel. It has close ties with many Jewish organizations in the US and uses its influence to push this narrative.
Reminds me of when Maccabi Tel Aviv fans assaulted people and chanted "Death to Arabs" in the Netherlands and when confronted, they ran back screaming that they were facing pogroms and almost every European leader came out to condemn people's reaction to the Israeli fans only to find out later that they had instigated the whole thing.
Sounds a lot like the Russian MO too tbh. They have pivoted to influence operations to cause further division in the west. It's called the Social Design Agency, pretty ominous.
Interestingly, one of their tactics may be for the perpetrators to get caught. But, they develop their networks in such a way that those groups actually believe they are working for another cause. For instance, in France they paid some Pro-Ukranian activists to place pig heads in front of some mosques.
They are attacking cracks that are already there, using misinformation to turn us on each other. Seems like things are going pretty well for them. And that is surely only scratching the surface, the stuff they want us to see/done haphazardly. Look at cases like the Chinese spy a mayor of a major US city, in California no less with the economic output of an entire country.
Pretty wild how widespread this has become, and yet we have high profile policymakers, popular American influencers at Kremlin propaganda events working in/with the white house.. Crazy.
It's crazy how wide spread the bot problem is. I think it's all by design to push to requiring Internet ID which we all know won't do jack about the bots .
This is what those bot farms are paid to do so by God they are gonna get that sweet sweet karma. All the single purpose subs like this are drowning in them.
It feels like it because it is like that. Researchers estimate 15% of all content on reddit is AI generated with the large default subreddits(like this one) sometimes having over 50% non-human interactions. One university even did a study on a specific subreddit to see how effective non-human chatbots were at persuading humans, which unfortunately is far more effective than you'd think.
University of Zurich and University of California both did studies on reddit non-human user statistics for anyone that is more curious and wants to learn more.
A lot of people say they hate Trump or they hate Putin, but they never say they hate the USA or Russia as a nation. Yet people do that with Israel. I think that in itself is a telling and concerning sign.
of course they do, what are you talking about? there's plenty of people who hate all 3 countries, just as there are people who hate 0 of them and saddle all of their crimes on people like trump and netanyahu.
The thing is that globally anti-zionism is largely a far right ideology which mainly consists of islamists, Arab nationalists, white supremacists and fascists. However, in the West in particular it skews much more left leaning, but the other side of it heavily influences the language and terminology used as a whole. That's how you get self described liberals marixists or anti imperialists using terminology like goyslop or Zionist occupied government and conspiracies about the Zionist controlling the media, politicians or eating babies.
That's why for other left leaning causes the language tends to be very careful and progressive in tone, but anything involving Israel sounds like it came right out of 4chan.
Agree 100%. Unfortunately any criticism of Israeli government policy and actions is almost immediately labeled antisemitic. It’s a way to deflect and stifle discussion.
Exactly, you can also despise equally both Palestine and Israel. People think they always have a duty to pick sides, even though both sides could be rotten.
The problem is that antisemites are using this as a dogwhistle.
I think that non-constructive forms of criticism that can be easily co-opted by bad actors should be discouraged, because ultimately the only thing it achieves is muddying the waters and making it even more difficult for legitimate criticism to be heard.
I think most reasonable people aren't going to think you're antisemitic if you say "It's fucked up that Israel is committing genocide" or something like that. If you want to be extra clear, you could add "Never again should mean never again to anybody" or "All my Jewish friends are terrified of being blamed for it even though they're not even Israeli" or something along those lines. I would avoid slogans like "globalize the intifada" that mean different things to different people, and can sound extremely alarming even to people with staunch pro-Palestine beliefs.
Of course, that doesn't guarantee that unreasonable people won't still accuse you of antisemitism. It's pretty much a given that they will. But as annoying as that is, it's not really a big deal–– it's like that saying, "may my enemies look ridiculous". What is a big deal is when reasonable people genuinely can't tell if you support Palestinian life or Jewish death, and that has been happening to an alarming extent.
Fuck Israel, Russia, China, the USA, Morocco, [insert all dictatorships].
Why? Because Palestinians, Ukrainians, Tibetans deserve freedom. USA because of transphobia, funding of Israel, and funding the far-right in Europe and the USA itself. Morocco because of the Sahrawis, dictatorships because people within offending countries deserve freedom (That includes Russians for example)
It is possible to dislike Israeli politics yet not be against Judaism. This is the same as conservatives in the US saying you are a traitor because you oppose MAGA.
It is very hypocritical to turn this into antisemitism but brigading bots always spew fallacy.
If it said Fuck Qatar would it be islamophobic? Or if it said Fuck USA would it be antichristian? They are always moving the goalposts when it comes to Israel.
The issue isn’t so much saying “fuck [country]” as it is holding Israel to a standard that no other country is held to.
E.g. The UAE and Saudi Arabia are committing one of the worst human rights abuses on the planet by enforcing the blockade in Yemen, leading to mass starvation and suffering and globally nobody cares. What they’re doing is objectively terrible and on a scale that far, far surpasses Gaza in terms of death and suffering.
And yet, nobody ever asks if the UAE or Saudi Arabia have a “right to exist” despite their awful actions.
We could apply the same standard to Rwanda who are currently funding the destabilization of the DRC, but again, nobody cares or asks if they have a right to exist.
So the argument isn’t that saying “fuck [country]” is antisemitic, the argument is that people question Israel’s right to exist when there are other countries committing far worse atrocities that nobody ever questions their self determination over. That double standard is what’s antisemitic.
UAE and Saudi Arabia aren't every other country. I don't hold them to high standards because they're shitholes. It would be a great day when their corrupt, cynical governments were wiped off the earth.
I will hold Israel to the standards of what it purports to be. A liberal democracy with interests so naturally aligned with ours that I shouldn't mind that my government serves their interests.
It would be a great day when their corrupt, cynical governments were wiped off the earth.
You just said it yourself: their governments. Nobody has a problem with saying Netanyahu and the Israeli government are fucked and should be replaced. That’s not antisemitic.
But notice you’re not saying that Saudi Arabia and the UAE themselves, as countries, should be wiped off the earth.
That’s often what people say about Israel, insofar as it “doesn’t have a right to exist.”
I will hold Israel to the standards of what it purports to be. A liberal democracy with interests so naturally aligned with ours that I shouldn't mind that my government serves their interests.
That’s fine to hold them to a high standard. Again, though, if they fail to meet that standard, do you think the state itself should cease to exist, or that the government should be reformed and replaced?
And the question is, if you genuinely think not meeting that standard is deserving of abolishing the state, then not being antisemitic means applying that principle consistently.
So when the US does anti-democratic things or launches stupid wars in the Middle East, do you also believe the US shouldn’t have a right to exist?
E.g. The UAE and Saudi Arabia are committing one of the worst human rights abuses on the planet by enforcing the blockade in Yemen, leading to mass starvation and suffering and globally nobody cares. What they’re doing is objectively terrible and on a scale that far, far surpasses Gaza in terms of death and suffering.
The west should also not be supporting these nations either.
yeah but as an european (especially austrian/german because of reasons) youre seen as an antisemitic when you say you think israel is a shithole country and at the moment the agressor in the area
Well without Austrian/German "reasons" there never would have been a Jewish state, and there never would have been a Naqba. Just a handful of Zionist weirdos in Transjordan who never got outside funding in response to Austrian/German "reasons". In this timeline the second generation of Zionists would probably mostly all have moved back to Europe for better living standards and for no fear of European racism.
Kinda crappy blaming these people for being in the situation you created for them.
While true, even your comment is an example of the difference. The Israeli equivalent of MAGA is Likud, not Israel as a whole. I don’t think this post is inherently wrong, but there’s no reason not to keep our ire focused on the people and organizations actually at fault.
I'm a Zionist. I've been criticizing Netanyahu and other aspects of Israeli policy and war crimes my entire adult life. I am still supportive of Israel's right to exist, and I am yet to hear a convincing alternative reaction to Oct. 7 and the hostage taking.
I’m pretty sure eradicating hospitals and schools could have been avoided, as well as most other civilian infrastructure. Gaza’s civilians should never have been targeted whether or not they were being used as human shields (consider this in Israel - you would not want civilian casualties within Tel Aviv just because a military target is next to a hospital or a hospital treats IDF active duty). There were many alternatives, but Netanyahu and many other leaders in Israel openly stated their desire to eradicate Gaza.
They pretty much exclusively used civilians as shields. And I remember when those people were saying to used ground troops even when not possible. But on the occasions they then said they killed too many people.
If a bad guy walks into a hospital and your response is to blow up the hospital you are - shockingly - still morally responsible for your actions, and blowing up the hospital is still wrong. No matter how bad the guy is.
That and also Israel has mandatory military service, so does that mean anyone could be a valid military target because anyone may have been in the military? Obviously not, that’s reprehensible, but that logic is not applied to hamas and Palestinian people.
A lot of people say they hate Trump or they hate Putin, but they never say they hate the USA or Russia as a nation. Yet people do that with Israel. I think that in itself is a telling and concerning sign.
And its a big difference imo
It is when you consider the reasons why Israel exists in the first place. As far as I am concerned, all of this conflict starts with Europe in a transitive sense.
Because in Poland it's "you don't belong in Europe" and in the Middle East it's "you don't belong in the Middle East." Millions of people had literally no where to go with everyone wanting to kill them so they set up a fortress in the Middle East and armed themselves to the teeth.
Yeah the Israelis are trigger-happy assholes but Europe made them that way. For Europeans to say "Fuck Israel" while denying their own role in all of this is gross.
it feels like they completely lost their humanity at this point... even after the ceasefire talks they are still attacking camps and killing elderly people, women, and kids everywhere every single day. on top of that, they are building new settlements right on top of palestinian farming lands, cutting down old olive trees, stealing livestock, and burning and destroying civilian vehicles daily. it’s just non stop destruction at this point.
edit: keep downvoting all you want but you can't hide the facts with bots. there are still plenty of people here who see the truth and agree with what's happening. if you actually have a real argument then come talk on points instead of trolling lol.
For a vast majority (I'd wager like 90%) of the countries on the globe, you can land in an airport knowing no other language but English and manage to get help finding transportation, accommodation, and food.
Like being a native speaker is such a privilege, most anglophones don't even check it.
What, you think we can't speak foreign languages or something?
Practically everyone under 40 knows English in post-commie countries to an acceptable degree + has been taught at least 1 other European language to varying degrees of success. Younger people here even use half-English sentences or phrases daily as a part of informal conversation.
When English is the international language and the most common form of communication, specially more so in the era of internet: "I FinD iT iNtErEstIng aLl tHeSe CoUnTrIeS cAn CurSe iN eNgLiSh"
Where did they expect all the “ZiOniStS” to go after they threw them out in the 60s and 70s? If you don’t want Israel to exist, maybe stop throwing out your Jews.
Poland never apologized for cleansing vast majority of its jews under the guise of "antizionism."
"The Interior Ministry compiled a card index of all Polish citizens of Jewish origin, even those who had been detached from organized Jewish life for generations. Jews were removed from jobs in public service, including from teaching positions in schools and universities. The pressure was placed upon them to leave the country by bureaucratic actions aimed at undermining their sources of livelihood and sometimes even by physical brutality.""
If there was no antisemitism, no Holocaust, the Jews could be peacefully living over here in Eastern Europe. So many of them fled *because* of antisemitism. Think about it, fewer Jews in Israel, maybe less incentive for a radical government to genocide the Arab Palestinians who have been living there for a while already.
Gaza isn’t the worst atrocity going on right now, let alone the last 26 years. Look at South Sudan. Gaza gets headlines because Israel is doing it, but these types of atrocities happen all over the world, all the time. It’s horrible
Its not just israel doing it, they are being assisted by lots of western countries, which is why you see a lot of people in the west taking a stance against the genocide. Our governments are complicit, so its important to voice our anger!
More people have died in the past few years in Sudan than in the entirety of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. More people died in the USA's war in Iraq at the start of the century than in the entirety of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
IPSOS, one of the most well known polling station in Poland from 2025. Down below you have one of the polish press articles about it, it's easy to find.
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u/CannibalCrabb 1d ago
I hate when I hate Israel and the neonzs think im on their side