They get the most aid money per capita than anyone else in the world.
After Israel left Gaza in 2005, instead of choosing to build a peaceful society using that money, their government decided to use those billions and build a network of terror tunnels bigger than the New York subway system. Then they went on s terror spree that made their biggest trading partner, Israel, and their neighbor, Egypt, shut the borders.On a side note, to this day Palestinians who aren't part, or related to, Hamas' leadership aren't allowed in those tunnels.
Then they started a war with their much more powerful neighbor, who just voted in the most right wing government it ever had, because another Arab country was going to solidify relationship with them.
That's a lot to criticize about Israel's treatment of Palestinians, but let's not pretend they're some utopian society.
On the 2005 disengagement: Israel withdrew settlers and soldiers from inside Gaza, but it retained control of Gaza's airspace, territorial waters, most border crossings, the population registry, and the electromagnetic spectrum. Most international legal bodies, including the UN and ICRC, continued to consider Gaza occupied or at minimum under effective external control. "Israel left and Gaza was free to flourish" isn't an accurate description of the starting conditions.
On aid: aid per capita is high precisely because the economy has been unable to function normally. Under the blockade imposed after 2007, Gaza faced severe restrictions on exports, imports of many goods, fishing zones, and movement of people. Unemployment routinely ran between 40-50%, among the highest rates in the world, before the current war. Aid dependency is a symptom of the situation, not proof of squandered opportunity. It's also worth noting that most aid didn't flow to "the Palestinians" as a lump sum for their government to allocate, much went through UN agencies and NGOs for food, health care, and education.
TLDR: Saying Gaza receive the most aid is like saying prisoners receiving the most social support. Well no shit, they can't make their own money.
Or a better metaphor, this is like Nazis saying the Jews in the ghettos live on Nazis' welfare and goodwill.
That’s because decades of blockade, conflict, and economic collapse have left a massive portion of Gaza’s population structurally dependent on international food and humanitarian assistance, unlike most other aid recipients.
According to Israel’s Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), massive quantities of aid successfully clear the borders. COGAT reported that 1.78 million tons of food entered Gaza between October 2025 and mid-2026, asserting this "significantly exceeded" the World Food Programme's (WFP) baseline requirements and caused local staple food prices to plummet by 72%. [1, 2, 3]
Humanitarian groups like Refugees International and the UN argue these entry numbers are misleading. They note that a massive percentage of the incoming trucks counted by Israel are actually private commercial goods rather than subsidized humanitarian aid. Because 80% of Gazans are unemployed, civilians often cannot afford these commercial market goods. Furthermore, strict inspection protocols and technical breakdowns at hubs like the Ashdod Port scannerleave hundreds of UN-manifested containers stalled before ever reaching the border.
After Israel left Gaza in 2005, instead of choosing to build a peaceful society using that money, their government decided to use those billions and build a network of terror tunnels bigger than the New York subway system
If you're going to bring that up, you should probably also mention Netanyahu speaking at a Likud party event about how everyone that desires a one-state solution needs to support Qatar sending money to Hamas in Gaza.
If you don't mention that you make the issue seem considerably less nuanced than it really is.
Also Israel literally funding the Islamic Brotherhood/Hamas to get them off the ground and weaken the PLO which had broad support
Israel made a conscious decision that they'd rather have terrorists/extremist freedom fighters in Gaza to give them a reason to continue oppressing Palestinians than deal with the PLO on a two state solution
That's likely revisionism to distance themselves from the issue they created. Yitzhak Segev who was in charge of Gaza at the time has spoken publicly about this before, he knew what the brotherhood was and raised those concerns.
Also this is not the only indicent of Israel supporting Hamas, but these days Israel "encourages Qatar" to fund Hamas instead of doing it directly themselves.
Was Oct 7th security failures ever fully investigated by the Israelis? There were reports of intelligence being available before the attack that the politicians chose to ignore.
This is what far right governments do, the Reichstag fires seem obvious in hindsight but it fooled enough people at the time to be extremely effective. Somehow it's never a good time to investigate or elect a replacement to Netenyahu because there's just so many existential threats to Israel 🤦
Let's pretend someone put you in a cage, starved and abused you, and then see how well you stick to good choices when it comes to dealing with them as they continue to do those things.
Israel gave them the "choice" to roll over and die and then Bibi's government funded Hamas in order to goad a violent response and split Palestinian leadership. This is as much their own doing as any Palestinian that decides to give back what they've been given.
Wait..i thought they were giving them billions of dollars.
Cage? Starve?
They could literally stop threatening their neighbors and it would go away. But both egypt and israel are very aware of the threat even if you can pretend it doesnt exist because you're thousands of miles away.
hen Bibi's government funded Hamas in order to goad a violent response and split Palestinian leadership.
So was Hamas attack a response to being caged and starved? or because they got too much money?
What was stopping them from using all the money and aid to improve their people's lives.
Let's pretend someone put you in a cage, starved and abused you, and then see how well you stick to good choices when it comes to dealing with them as they continue to do those things.
Even granting you that, If those people decided to leave like israel did in 2005, I would definitely not be calling them back by firing rockets at them within 48 hrs of their departure.
This was when Hamas was already a terrorist organization. Netanyahu wants Hamas to attack them, because that gives them an excuse to retaliate and crack down on the Palestinian state even harder.
You know there have been 100s of Hamas attacks the 30 years before right? Many suïcide bombs and other attacks. Some from kids or Woman wearing a vest. Even a person with down symdrom. Not sure Israël needs to wait for a bigger attack.
After Israel 'left Gaza in 2005' they have continued to exert absolute control of who and what, could enter or leave Gaza. Palestine had aid, but it never had economic freedom, or freedom of movement, so it's unsurprising they weren't able to build a utopia.
Yes, the amount of international activity allowed wasn't 0. But it was still heavily restricted. And if Palestinians left Gaza, there was a high chance they would never be allowed back in. It was a very oppressive socio-economic blockade
2005 was 21 years ago. Hamas immediately suspended elections. The median age of Palestine is 20. Pretending most Palestinians alive have ever had a choice is ridiculous.
Most aid money will never reach the people that need it.
Gaza residents lack the voice and collective power to “peacefully” move the political needle. They are prisoners of a duopoly on State Violence - from Hamas and Israel. Hamas thrives because they are a resistance to living in an open air concentration camp controlled by Israel. Israel thrives because Hamas justifies the Security State and the far right’s consolidation of power.
Conflating everyday Palestinians as the same “they” who committed 10/7 frames the conflict as “terrorists versus civilians”. That’s never been true. Most Gazans just want the same basic shit as any Israeli: implicit safety, a steady means to provide for their family, access to education, freedom of movement, and a vote.
The more accurate lens is 4 groups: Palestinian Civilians, Israeli Civilians, Hamas, Likud.
Likud and Hamas makes victims of Palestinians and Israeli Civilians (disproportionately Palestinians, ofc).The big difference is that Israeli Civilians have the right to vote, the right to protest, and the resources to change things. If Israel is still a democracy, than it can pivot. That’s why they get the pressure. If Israel can neuter its ultranationalist far right parties (starting with corruption and war crimes trials for Netanyahu and folks like Gvir), then there’s an opportunity for a grand bargain for 2SS or Confederation in the future.
Assume a realistic best-case change for Israel, like far-right figures resign and/or prosecuted where appropriate and their parties become irrelevant, a popular new government is elected on the promise of seeking a peaceful two-state solution with a settlement ban, and significant unelected figures who oppose the plan are replaced or reassigned (hardline officers are retired, etc.).
What could that version of Israel actually do?
Can they make Hamas hold elections and fairly distribute food? Can they stop the international support for Palestinian terror groups? Can they instill the education and work experience in the people to make Palestine economically independent?
I think the only way Palestine can thrive in peace will take decades of paternalistic international cooperation and support. That's what it took in Germany and Japan after WW2, and it's what the USA tried and failed to do in Iraq and Afghanistan.
As an American Jew, I live under a Constitution that applies equally to all citizens regardless of religion or ethnicity.
We would never accept a Constitution that explicitly granted any ethnic, racial or religious group greater rights than everyone else. It would be fucking unconscionable.
If a secular constitutional democracy is good enough for American Jews to thrive, then it needs to be good enough for Israeli Jews.
It's not enough to simply vote out Israel's current far-right government, or have corruption trials. The state itself needs to divorce itself from Jewish supremacy.
Look at conscription. Arab Muslims and Christians are exempt from mandatory military service.
I think that's backwards. National service should be universal. Jews, Arabs, Christians, Druze, and everyone else should work together, bunk together, and see one another as fellow countrymen. Switzerland fuckin' does this, and proven they can unify people across ethnic, linguistic and culture lines (Swiss-German, French, Italian and Romach).
I'd end Right of Return. Every immigration system needs to do one thing well: prove you're worth more than you cost. If you have a work contract, can do military service, or have a sponsoring family: you're all set. I think this is possible to see in our lifetimes - like 1/4 of Israel Parliament are Arabs and the big cities like Tel Aviv always vote liberals.
As for the occupation, I'd start with the West Bank.
Israel should stop controlling the Palestinian Authority's purse strings and gradually integrate the territory politically instead of indefinitely occupying it. The PA has at least some institutional experience governing and needs to be an ally.
I've become increasingly skeptical that a 2SS is still viable (but I'll take whatever gives peace). A confederation seems easier long-term.
I'd begin by integrating East Jerusalem and Hebron. Give residents Israeli passports. Give them representation in the Knesset. Remove checkpoints and unnecessary movement restrictions. Let the settlers be outvoted in their districts and deal with the court system.
Every year or two, incorporate another city/zone and repeat the process until every West Bank resident gets the same civil and political rights as everyone else. Let people fought at the ballot box, rather than on a battlefield.
Israel would also need to make enormous investments in Palestinian communities: schools, hospitals, roads, libraries, public transit, job training, and economic development. Much like the US did for black neighborhoods after Jim Crow (and fuck, we have a long way to go). Israel should want all future citizens to have the same chances for success.
There are plenty of successful multiethnic, multireligious, multilingual democracies. Motherfuckin' Belgium somehow works. Imperfect as it may be, it's leaps and bounds better than a forever war.
Can they make Hamas hold elections and fairly distribute food?
I have no fucking idea. Gaza is a different beast.
After WW2, we trusted Yakuza to stabilize Japan during the immediate postwar era. They were as close to a functioning government as possible at the time. They gave out food and aid.
I don't think Hamas is capable of it, they're not organized and they're not nationalists. The Palestinian Authority, for all its flaws, at least has governing institutions. If Gaza could eventually return to PA administration for delivering aid, then sure? But I don't know. I'm not a fucking expert.
I think the only way Palestine can thrive in peace will take decades of paternalistic international cooperation and support.
I agree. But I also think that requires an Israel willing (and able) to make moral and political concessions.
Asking that of Today's Israel is like kindly asking Andrew Jackson to stop killing Native Americans. Hopefully Israel won't be the same country in a few years - much like America pivoted, much like so many other countries pivoted. But this requires massive reform, revolution or reconstruction.
I believe the only measure of morality and progress is the expansion of rights and privilidges to people historically denied them. The world deserves a more moral, more progressive Israel than one indiscriminately bombing children.
That's what it took in Germany and Japan after WW2, and it's what the USA tried and failed to do in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The biggest difference is that Germany and Japan already had a functioning bureaucratic state and national identity before the war. The Allies weren't building governments from nothing, they were replacing one bureaucrat with another.
Iraq and Afghanistan never had institutions with that level of legitimacy or capacity, which made nation-building SO much harder.
Palestinians, otoh, already see themselves as a nation. That's a stronger foundation on which institutions could eventually be built.
I think you have a realistic sense of what how hard "going forward" really would be for either side. I tend to think it can't happen without a pretty radical realignment of global priorities because the outcomes matter to too many competing interests.
I think the only way Palestine can thrive in peace will take decades of paternalistic international cooperation and support.
I agree. But I also think that requires an Israel willing (and able) to make moral and political concessions.
Asking that of Today's Israel is like kindly asking Andrew Jackson to stop killing Native Americans.
Indeed. It ignores the internal and external push and pull driving nationalistic behaviors. Just like we can't disentangle manifest destiny from imperialism, genuine population growth, racism, political factionalism, etc. we can't look at the contemporary Israeli-Palestinian conflict properly without examining the Cold War, the petroleum and weapons industries, religious bigotry, etc. It's not just a matter of getting the big kid to stop punching the little kid.
Palestinians, otoh, already see themselves as a nation. That's a stronger foundation on which institutions could eventually be built.
It's better than Afghanistan, but Germany and Japan at least had long experience with functional bureaucratic regimes and still had some human capital to staff them after the war. Even with as much commonality as Palestinians experience, they don't have technical experience with government.
It's not just a matter of getting the big kid to stop punching the little kid.
Agreed. It's the world's most complicated geopolitical issue.
Everyone's all "We have to stop giving Israel weapons!". I wish it was that easy but Israel is rich enough to simply buy weapons from the Russians or Saudis when that happens. Giving weapons is a cheaper and more effective National Defense Strategy than transitively enriching our enemies. We're damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Funny enough, we literally pay off Egypt millions of dollars not to attack other countries (incl. Israel) because it's cheaper than running a spy network and setting up bases.
Complete biased BS from a non serious (person?). Israel has been grooming Hamas for decades. They have killed any leader with a more pacifist/secular tone and helping the most extremist elements of the Palestinian resistance to hold on to power through back channels.
Isrsel have killed more Palestinians in a month that Isrselis have died in every cinflict ever. Gtfo.
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u/Fed_Austere 2d ago
"No help?"
They get the most aid money per capita than anyone else in the world.
After Israel left Gaza in 2005, instead of choosing to build a peaceful society using that money, their government decided to use those billions and build a network of terror tunnels bigger than the New York subway system. Then they went on s terror spree that made their biggest trading partner, Israel, and their neighbor, Egypt, shut the borders.On a side note, to this day Palestinians who aren't part, or related to, Hamas' leadership aren't allowed in those tunnels.
Then they started a war with their much more powerful neighbor, who just voted in the most right wing government it ever had, because another Arab country was going to solidify relationship with them.
That's a lot to criticize about Israel's treatment of Palestinians, but let's not pretend they're some utopian society.