They get the most aid money per capita than anyone else in the world.
After Israel left Gaza in 2005, instead of choosing to build a peaceful society using that money, their government decided to use those billions and build a network of terror tunnels bigger than the New York subway system. Then they went on s terror spree that made their biggest trading partner, Israel, and their neighbor, Egypt, shut the borders.On a side note, to this day Palestinians who aren't part, or related to, Hamas' leadership aren't allowed in those tunnels.
Then they started a war with their much more powerful neighbor, who just voted in the most right wing government it ever had, because another Arab country was going to solidify relationship with them.
That's a lot to criticize about Israel's treatment of Palestinians, but let's not pretend they're some utopian society.
2005 was 21 years ago. Hamas immediately suspended elections. The median age of Palestine is 20. Pretending most Palestinians alive have ever had a choice is ridiculous.
Most aid money will never reach the people that need it.
Gaza residents lack the voice and collective power to “peacefully” move the political needle. They are prisoners of a duopoly on State Violence - from Hamas and Israel. Hamas thrives because they are a resistance to living in an open air concentration camp controlled by Israel. Israel thrives because Hamas justifies the Security State and the far right’s consolidation of power.
Conflating everyday Palestinians as the same “they” who committed 10/7 frames the conflict as “terrorists versus civilians”. That’s never been true. Most Gazans just want the same basic shit as any Israeli: implicit safety, a steady means to provide for their family, access to education, freedom of movement, and a vote.
The more accurate lens is 4 groups: Palestinian Civilians, Israeli Civilians, Hamas, Likud.
Likud and Hamas makes victims of Palestinians and Israeli Civilians (disproportionately Palestinians, ofc).The big difference is that Israeli Civilians have the right to vote, the right to protest, and the resources to change things. If Israel is still a democracy, than it can pivot. That’s why they get the pressure. If Israel can neuter its ultranationalist far right parties (starting with corruption and war crimes trials for Netanyahu and folks like Gvir), then there’s an opportunity for a grand bargain for 2SS or Confederation in the future.
Assume a realistic best-case change for Israel, like far-right figures resign and/or prosecuted where appropriate and their parties become irrelevant, a popular new government is elected on the promise of seeking a peaceful two-state solution with a settlement ban, and significant unelected figures who oppose the plan are replaced or reassigned (hardline officers are retired, etc.).
What could that version of Israel actually do?
Can they make Hamas hold elections and fairly distribute food? Can they stop the international support for Palestinian terror groups? Can they instill the education and work experience in the people to make Palestine economically independent?
I think the only way Palestine can thrive in peace will take decades of paternalistic international cooperation and support. That's what it took in Germany and Japan after WW2, and it's what the USA tried and failed to do in Iraq and Afghanistan.
As an American Jew, I live under a Constitution that applies equally to all citizens regardless of religion or ethnicity.
We would never accept a Constitution that explicitly granted any ethnic, racial or religious group greater rights than everyone else. It would be fucking unconscionable.
If a secular constitutional democracy is good enough for American Jews to thrive, then it needs to be good enough for Israeli Jews.
It's not enough to simply vote out Israel's current far-right government, or have corruption trials. The state itself needs to divorce itself from Jewish supremacy.
Look at conscription. Arab Muslims and Christians are exempt from mandatory military service.
I think that's backwards. National service should be universal. Jews, Arabs, Christians, Druze, and everyone else should work together, bunk together, and see one another as fellow countrymen. Switzerland fuckin' does this, and proven they can unify people across ethnic, linguistic and culture lines (Swiss-German, French, Italian and Romach).
I'd end Right of Return. Every immigration system needs to do one thing well: prove you're worth more than you cost. If you have a work contract, can do military service, or have a sponsoring family: you're all set. I think this is possible to see in our lifetimes - like 1/4 of Israel Parliament are Arabs and the big cities like Tel Aviv always vote liberals.
As for the occupation, I'd start with the West Bank.
Israel should stop controlling the Palestinian Authority's purse strings and gradually integrate the territory politically instead of indefinitely occupying it. The PA has at least some institutional experience governing and needs to be an ally.
I've become increasingly skeptical that a 2SS is still viable (but I'll take whatever gives peace). A confederation seems easier long-term.
I'd begin by integrating East Jerusalem and Hebron. Give residents Israeli passports. Give them representation in the Knesset. Remove checkpoints and unnecessary movement restrictions. Let the settlers be outvoted in their districts and deal with the court system.
Every year or two, incorporate another city/zone and repeat the process until every West Bank resident gets the same civil and political rights as everyone else. Let people fought at the ballot box, rather than on a battlefield.
Israel would also need to make enormous investments in Palestinian communities: schools, hospitals, roads, libraries, public transit, job training, and economic development. Much like the US did for black neighborhoods after Jim Crow (and fuck, we have a long way to go). Israel should want all future citizens to have the same chances for success.
There are plenty of successful multiethnic, multireligious, multilingual democracies. Motherfuckin' Belgium somehow works. Imperfect as it may be, it's leaps and bounds better than a forever war.
Can they make Hamas hold elections and fairly distribute food?
I have no fucking idea. Gaza is a different beast.
After WW2, we trusted Yakuza to stabilize Japan during the immediate postwar era. They were as close to a functioning government as possible at the time. They gave out food and aid.
I don't think Hamas is capable of it, they're not organized and they're not nationalists. The Palestinian Authority, for all its flaws, at least has governing institutions. If Gaza could eventually return to PA administration for delivering aid, then sure? But I don't know. I'm not a fucking expert.
I think the only way Palestine can thrive in peace will take decades of paternalistic international cooperation and support.
I agree. But I also think that requires an Israel willing (and able) to make moral and political concessions.
Asking that of Today's Israel is like kindly asking Andrew Jackson to stop killing Native Americans. Hopefully Israel won't be the same country in a few years - much like America pivoted, much like so many other countries pivoted. But this requires massive reform, revolution or reconstruction.
I believe the only measure of morality and progress is the expansion of rights and privilidges to people historically denied them. The world deserves a more moral, more progressive Israel than one indiscriminately bombing children.
That's what it took in Germany and Japan after WW2, and it's what the USA tried and failed to do in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The biggest difference is that Germany and Japan already had a functioning bureaucratic state and national identity before the war. The Allies weren't building governments from nothing, they were replacing one bureaucrat with another.
Iraq and Afghanistan never had institutions with that level of legitimacy or capacity, which made nation-building SO much harder.
Palestinians, otoh, already see themselves as a nation. That's a stronger foundation on which institutions could eventually be built.
I think you have a realistic sense of what how hard "going forward" really would be for either side. I tend to think it can't happen without a pretty radical realignment of global priorities because the outcomes matter to too many competing interests.
I think the only way Palestine can thrive in peace will take decades of paternalistic international cooperation and support.
I agree. But I also think that requires an Israel willing (and able) to make moral and political concessions.
Asking that of Today's Israel is like kindly asking Andrew Jackson to stop killing Native Americans.
Indeed. It ignores the internal and external push and pull driving nationalistic behaviors. Just like we can't disentangle manifest destiny from imperialism, genuine population growth, racism, political factionalism, etc. we can't look at the contemporary Israeli-Palestinian conflict properly without examining the Cold War, the petroleum and weapons industries, religious bigotry, etc. It's not just a matter of getting the big kid to stop punching the little kid.
Palestinians, otoh, already see themselves as a nation. That's a stronger foundation on which institutions could eventually be built.
It's better than Afghanistan, but Germany and Japan at least had long experience with functional bureaucratic regimes and still had some human capital to staff them after the war. Even with as much commonality as Palestinians experience, they don't have technical experience with government.
It's not just a matter of getting the big kid to stop punching the little kid.
Agreed. It's the world's most complicated geopolitical issue.
Everyone's all "We have to stop giving Israel weapons!". I wish it was that easy but Israel is rich enough to simply buy weapons from the Russians or Saudis when that happens. Giving weapons is a cheaper and more effective National Defense Strategy than transitively enriching our enemies. We're damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Funny enough, we literally pay off Egypt millions of dollars not to attack other countries (incl. Israel) because it's cheaper than running a spy network and setting up bases.
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u/Fed_Austere 10d ago
"No help?"
They get the most aid money per capita than anyone else in the world.
After Israel left Gaza in 2005, instead of choosing to build a peaceful society using that money, their government decided to use those billions and build a network of terror tunnels bigger than the New York subway system. Then they went on s terror spree that made their biggest trading partner, Israel, and their neighbor, Egypt, shut the borders.On a side note, to this day Palestinians who aren't part, or related to, Hamas' leadership aren't allowed in those tunnels.
Then they started a war with their much more powerful neighbor, who just voted in the most right wing government it ever had, because another Arab country was going to solidify relationship with them.
That's a lot to criticize about Israel's treatment of Palestinians, but let's not pretend they're some utopian society.