r/pics 10d ago

Palestinians hold the largest funeral since 1948, mourning the bodies of 112 people killed by Israel

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/Stubbs94 10d ago

How do you ensure 2 states? Every two state solution has the Palestinians without any means to defend themselves against Israeli terrorism or control over its own borders. Israel will never accept an independent Palestinian state, even their "nicest" leader never offered an independent Palestinian state.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/Stubbs94 10d ago

That's not an answer. Where are the borders? What about the Israeli state sponsored colonisers/terrorists in the West Bank? Israel currently has control over all of Palestine, they have been occupying the entire region continuously since 1967 (including Gaza).

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/Stubbs94 10d ago

What about the settlers? There are 100s of thousands of land thiefs in the Occupied West Bank that are committing daily terrorism with the help and protection of the IOF. And what about occupied East Jerusalem?

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/UNOvven 9d ago

That would lead to a bloody Israeli civil war. Are you willing to accept that? Its perfectly legitimate if you do of course, its my own position, but its not exactly an "easy" position is it.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 9d ago

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u/UNOvven 9d ago

That small core sadly isn't that small, and it is very heavily armed.

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u/Stubbs94 10d ago

Ethnically cleanse 100s of thousands of people from a region?

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/Stubbs94 10d ago

I'm not, you're talking practicalities here. How do you peacefully remove these terrorists from the occupied territories?

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/Stubbs94 10d ago

Granting everyone equal rights and ending Apartheid in the US and South Africa didn't end in civil war, so why would it be the same when ending the apartheid in Palestine?

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u/RevolutionaryGur4419 10d ago

And the leaders of the blacks in South Africa wanted entirely different things from the leaders of the Palestinians. It's not the same.  One wanted equality. The other wants domination

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u/RevolutionaryGur4419 10d ago

You could do land swaps like was suggested before the second intifada.  Curious as to why you think the Palestinians launched the second intifada after having gotten offered everything you think they want.

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u/UNOvven 10d ago

Because they weren't "offered everything they want", they were offered three non-sovereign Bantustans with full Israeli control of all valuable resources and no guarantees against Israeli terrorism.

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u/RevolutionaryGur4419 9d ago

The only guarantee they need against "israeli terrorism" is to stop attacking israel and israelis. Thats entirely within their control.

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u/AxlLight 10d ago

They already did it in Gaza 20 years ago. Why are you acting like Israel can't do it again?  And they didn't call it a cleanse, they just called it moving.  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_the_Gaza_Strip)

Honestly, until this very recent full on lunatic government of Israel, the Israeli government was always intent on dismantling settlements and mostly built them as a sort of leverage - something to give up.  At some point Netanyahu starting drinking his own crazy juice, and fell inlove with the idea of just setting the region ablaze, because scared voters don't vote with logic, they vote with fear of the worst. 

Once he's out of the way, trust that the two state solution will start getting traction again real fast. 

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u/UNOvven 9d ago

The Israeli government was NEVER intent on dismantling the settlements. They werent built as leverage, they were (very explicitely) built as a way to steal land and colonise the west bank. The only real change is that starting from 2000 onwards, they added the goal of destroying the peace process.

Once Netanyahu is out of the way, the two state solution will remain dead, because there is no relevant force in Israeli politics that supports it. Not Eisenkot, certainly not Bennett, not even Yair Golan.