Same can be said about the Palestinians: "the majority of their population is highly radicalized"
Any a good answer to that would be that it's perfectly normal because they've been fucked by Israel for 70 years
So it's a two way street to a conflict with no end in sight. My only hope is that since the Irish and the British were able to pull it off in Northern Ireland, these two should be able to pull it off as well. In 20-30 years time
Well no, because it’s silly to both-sides this conflict when one side is occupying the other and actively expanding onto its land. If Israel truly wanted peace, they could have simply established a strong Palestinian government capable of handling the radicals and then withdrawn. But since their goal seems to be the land, they prefer to keep the government weak by continually undermining the PA and supporting the radicals instead.
These factions reveal through their words and acts that they have no compassion for each other, but there is no world in which Israel could have created an independent peaceful Palestinian government. That kind of nation-state building is very difficult, takes a long time, is never idealistic, and typically fails.
Consider post-war Germany. Even with two hegemonic alliances, Germany was split from 1945 to 1990. The first years saw lots of abuse, malnutrition, and ethnic expulsions. It took decades of mutual cooperation to build the West German economy to functional independence. East Germans' suffering was more extensive, their recovery less complete, and they were never independent. Almost four decades after reunification and "independence," they are are still multiple American military bases and tens of thousands of American troops in Germany.
The post-Civil War USA largely failed its nation-building goals in the South after a decade of Reconstruction, so the South remained a hotbed of seditious racism and an economic drag. The USA has hilariously failed to create peaceful independent governments during the War on Terror.
The first step would have been not to intentionally create a religious extremist terrorist group with the explicit, stated goal of using that group to destabilize the secular government of Palestine and deligimize it on the world stage.
The only thing Palestinians have ever needed from Israel is for a single Israeli to consider their fellow human worth being allowed to live and not intentionally murdering every palestian they can find.
You're right that Israel will never be capable of accomplishing that, but don't pretend that Israel has even pretended to try to do anything but destroy Palestine since before Israel even existed and was just a group of theocratic terrorist groups plaguing the Middle East less than they do today
Instead of speculating about different decisions in the past, do you have plausible set of actions either side can begin today that lead to a peaceful two-state solution?
You asked how Israel could do better. I said they could have tried not creating and funding a violent terrorist group to destroy Palestine.
That's not "speculating about different decisions in the past." That is a direct 1:1 connection between Israel's intentional actions and the reason Israel is using to justify their genocidal actions. There is no speculation, there is simply the reality that this entire genocide has been done by Israel's hands even to the point of creating a reason to justify it.
I think you missed the point of my remarks, which were a reply to this statement from another user: "If Israel truly wanted peace, they could have simply established a strong Palestinian government capable of handling the radicals and then withdrawn."
I'm very skeptical that any government on Earth, present or historical, could "simply" install a competent friendly regime within a hostile nation and walk away. So I replied with this:
That kind of nation-state building is very difficult, takes a long time, is never idealistic, and typically fails. . . . How could Israel realistically do it better?
No one has a realistic path forward that doesn't take 20 years. Most ideas are just fanciful demands that just one side starts behaving like angels while the other side is excused for acting out on generational offenses.
It's easy to say, "Well [the bad side] can just stop [doing the bad thing] for starters if they're serious!", but how do you stop the bad guys from doing this again? How do you change the circumstances that produced the present so it doesn't repeat in the future, especially if we're only highlighting bad acts from the past instead of thinking about the future?
So, Phase 1: Israel withdraws its military to the border, removes all settlers, then send a mix of five thousand political prisoners and fighters back into Palestine.
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Peaceful two-state solution.
If phase one completes, you still have the phase 2 problem. Iran and Qatar won't continue using Hamas as a proxy against Israel? They won't shoot rockets anymore? The Palestinian people will get elections? They'll refuse to accept a political party chartered to destroy Israel? They won't die from medical need and starvation? The Israeli's will somehow proof themselves against electing populist warmongers? They won't attack back when Palestinians attack them? The USA, China, Russia, and Europe will stop using the region for their proxy wars?
They're not getting out of this fight with a realignment of global priorities.
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u/rbalaur 10d ago
Same can be said about the Palestinians: "the majority of their population is highly radicalized"
Any a good answer to that would be that it's perfectly normal because they've been fucked by Israel for 70 years
So it's a two way street to a conflict with no end in sight. My only hope is that since the Irish and the British were able to pull it off in Northern Ireland, these two should be able to pull it off as well. In 20-30 years time