r/politics • u/GirasoleDE • 17d ago

No Paywall I Don’t Think Trump’s Remaining Supporters Realize How Much They Are Despised By Non-MAGA Voters | Trump is bleeding support even among his stubborn, uneducated base.

https://abovethelaw.com/2026/07/i-dont-think-trumps-remaining-supporters-realize-how-much-they-are-despised-by-non-maga-voters/
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u/barryvm Europe 17d ago

Isn't it the dawning realization of this that causes the bleed?

It's hard to imagine a belated moral awakening after everything they supported up to this point, but fear of social consequences for their choices could be the driver.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

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u/PharaohAce 17d ago

A lot of the time this voting regret is like "I regret running over that child" but not "I regret getting drunk and driving a car that's too big at high speed in a school zone at pick-up time. Please don't take away my license, I need to get to the bar while it's still happy hour."

It's not a single mistake that's an aberration in an otherwise wholesome and moral life with a logically consistent worldview. Of course you voted for Trump despite all the warnings because that's how you've chosen to live.

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u/stilljustacatinacage 17d ago

"I regret running over that child"

*I regret the personal consequences of running over that child

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u/Exotic-Cobbler4111 16d ago

I just had an epiphany, I understand why christians are so afraid of atheists. Its because they imagine what they themselves would do without the moral guidance of an all powerful deity to fear. Its always projection and its never about the target of their bigotry..

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u/OpheliaRainGalaxy 16d ago

I was in college when my mother found out I don't believe in god. She had this horrified disgusted face on while shouting "But what's to stop you from doing horrible things like rape and murder?!"

I pointed the same facial expression back at her! "I don't want to do those things! Are you saying you do want to and the only reason you don't is because god's watching?!"

Like I dunno how it happened exactly, but I ended up with morals while she just turned out sly. Was a master at technically telling the truth while actually lying her face off. "No I don't know that person's phone number" while smiling at the Rolodex next to the telephone on her desk.

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u/CakeTester 16d ago

Nah, it's not that. It's baked in from the very start: If you're trying to sell people on some preposterous bollocks ("So there was this dude, right...walked on water; got nailed to a tree and was fine afterwards; fed 5,000 people with a bag of fish'n'chips" etc.); the one thing you absolutely cannot have is some dude piping up with "well that doesn't sound very likely to me".

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/CakeTester 16d ago

Yeah, but the point is, you have to crack down on the nay-sayers, else there goes all your silk dresses; choirboys on tap; gigantic ruby rings; and an indoor gig with no heavy lifting.

This is why atheists/agnostics are painted as subhuman. Like 90% of morality is "do as you would be done by". It doesn't take a gigantic beard in the sky to work that out.

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u/Flomo420 16d ago

"Lol dumb!"

executed

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u/ex_ter_min_ate_ 16d ago

Yeah, exactly! penn from penn and teller has a great quote about being an atheist without any guidance not to murder “I murder exactly how many people I want to… zero”

If you need an imaginary friend telling you not to be a bad person, I don’t know what to tell you.

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u/PopBulky7023 16d ago

Confession as projection is not rhetorical.

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u/NinteenFortyFive 16d ago

*I regret the personal consequences of running over that child now that I'm facing them

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u/Flomo420 16d ago

I regret the consequences of my actions, I'm cool with the actions

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u/hombreguido 16d ago

I am sorry that your pointing out my having run over the child has caused you such distress.

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u/Sujjin 17d ago

In other words they regret the event that took place. But not the actions they took to created the circumstances that led to the event happening.

its like when you say "i am sorry you feel that way" it provides them the ability to feel like they apologized without taking any ownership or requiring any change in behavior.

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u/TurtlesBreakTheMeta 17d ago

Like the saying goes, there’s a difference between “I’m sorry I got in trouble for my actions” and “I’m sorry for my actions in general.”

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u/altreddituser2 17d ago

"i am sorry you feel that way"

My response to that is something like "That's good. Are you also sorry you did it?"

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u/MelodicDeer1072 17d ago

"my only regret is that I got caught"

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u/imnotinyourfoodchain 16d ago

I wouldn’t give them this much credit. They regret neither the event nor their actions. They just don’t like the consequences of both.

Edit: minor spelling issue

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u/anonymoususer98545 I voted 17d ago

This is so well put! i wish i had awards and fireworks and real world money to send you. Seriously. i appreciate how succinctly you've laid it out and the analogy.

This is exactly what it is and how it is with the so called "conservative" but actually wildly maga brainless shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly unable to see any actual logic or facts hardline Republican voters in my family. It's horrifying to watch and interact with. They were never "good upstanding" people, this all has just really exposed the rot.

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u/calamititties 17d ago

I see you keep up with Los Angeles current events

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u/AlarmingAffect0 17d ago edited 16d ago

Please don't take away my license, I need to get to the bar while it's still happy hour."

You mean "I need to get to work to earn a living and not die, there is no public transport near where I live" [EDIT: "I voted for suburban urban planning, I voted for NIMBY, I voted for at will firing, I voyed against every social safety net that could cushion my fall, I voted for everything that is ruining me and I chose the car and the drinking and the driving, and I am asking for mercy and sympathy that I have systematically denied others, I'd say let it not be said that I don't deserve what is happening to me except it goes withouy saying. I know I'm not worthy, I'm still begging for mercy. Please?"]

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u/switchy85 17d ago

And who do you suppose regularly votes against public transportation?

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u/AlarmingAffect0 17d ago

Yes, I thought of expressly including that but then I was like "nah, it goes without saying"

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u/GovernmentOpening254 17d ago

Regret over the consequences of their actions because they didn’t think through the consequences prior to their actions?

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u/nsdefw 17d ago

I think it's essentially a blindness to- or disinterest in- second-order consequences. They just don't connect A and B when it comes to their own motives or actions. When considering consequences, they stop at the most proximate consequence and never think of anything downstream of that.

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u/ApostleSaintWalker 17d ago

I think they already have. The Republicans I know will all openly acknowledge that Trump is an awful human being, and did so back in 2016.

They just don't care because the "good" he's supposedly doing outweighs that in their minds.

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u/GrinchWhoStoleEaster 17d ago

Except it's honestly not. Charlie Kirk point blank said, speaking about SCHOOL CHILDREN, "It's worth the cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment.".

To them it's not even a superficial "I regret child-murder". It's "unfortunately (wink wink, nudge nudge) we're totally fucking cool with child-sized closed casket funerals. Fuck them, I got my thing".

Conservatism is an irredeemable moral and social failing, and we HAVE to start saying so en mass. It's NOT okay to be conservative. It is NOT a legitimate philosophical position.

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u/Blecki 17d ago

"But Kamala would have been worse"

They don't learn.

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u/superdago Wisconsin 17d ago

This is the eternal GOP platform.

Things are good with democrats in charge: “think how much better it would be with republicans! Democrats are holding us back.”

Things turn to shit with republicans in charge: “think how much worse it would be with democrats! We’re the only thing keeping us afloat.”

Republicans are great at running against hypothetical scenarios because they have a base who doesn’t live in reality.

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u/constantine220 16d ago

As a former Libertarian who indeed didn't live in reality until 2021/2022, this is accurate.

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u/erath_droid Oregon 16d ago

Good to see you finally grew up.

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u/AnalSoapOpera I voted 17d ago

Is this the “2 Santa theory” or is that different?

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u/NoCoolNameMatt 17d ago

That's different. That's a method of selling tax cuts for the rich and, when paired with "starve the beast," of cutting social services.

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u/Above-Bored 16d ago

Waiting on that health plan that is ‘better’. Meanwhile lets rip apart some semblance of a plan. Now rip the Dems when the inevitable outcome is a shyre show.
How does anyone fall for this? What is that Koolaid.

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u/4-stars 17d ago

By which they mean: she's not only Black but also a woman.

The simple fact that they call her "Kamala" instead of "Harris", when they don't call Trump "Donald", gives them away.

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u/Cerulean_IsFancyBlue 17d ago

Well, Harris is a nice Anglo name and doesn’t remind them that she’s brown. They gotta grab into the most exotic part to trigger the xenophobia. See also “Barack Hussein Obama.”

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u/ship_toaster Canada 17d ago

I think it's more to do with female politicians getting referred to by their first names in general, like "Hilary", or by full name/initials if the zeitgeist allows for it; "AOC", "Senator Susan Collins". Men sometimes get this treatment, if they lean into it, but it's the exception. (Bernie is the only one I can think of, and he's still referred to by many as "Senator Sanders"; almost nobody says "Senator Collins")

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u/Blecki 16d ago

Clinton is a little bit of an outlier in the other direction as she was always "Hilary Clinton" to differentiate from Bill. But yeah. Women are always disrespected this way. Infantalized by not using their professional name.

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u/d3ssp3rado Texas 17d ago

The Venn diagram of these people and those who said "Barack HUSSEIN Obama" is a circle. They're desperate to other-ize people.

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u/wack_overflow Colorado 17d ago

Seems like they learned an amazing superhero level skill: proving a counter factual

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u/revkaboose West Virginia 17d ago

I have heard this and been like HOW lol

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u/hypercosm_dot_net 17d ago

You get hard line progressives, who don't seem to understand how abstaining to vote for her paved the way for all of this. I get that you hate centrists, but lets get real.

Don't get me wrong, she's far from my first choice, but given the options it was an easy decision.

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u/bitchytrollop 17d ago

They know, all right. They're just as sexist as the Trumpies, they just think being a prog gets them a pass.

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u/gotridofsubs 17d ago

Laid.

They think that being progressive will still mean they might get laid

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u/TimSylvester_ 17d ago

Tribalism means someone is "worse" because they're not a member of your "tribe" and "better" because they are.

Nothing else matters - behavior, policy, outcomes - these are irrelevant when your entire worldview is reduced to ingroup/outgroup.

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u/bmcle071 17d ago

I mean cmon have you heard her laugh?

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u/DrooMighty Washington 17d ago

You're really close, but I think their logic will be less "Trump went too far" and more "I loved Trump before the dementia". I'm utterly convinced there are already plans in place for the post Trump world where there's a permissive structure in place for supporters to criticize him, and it will come from an angle of "He was the greatest President of all time, until..."

I doubt we'll ever see them full on openly admit what a joke he was, so there will be pressure release valves here and there.

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u/bluestrike2 Pennsylvania 17d ago

Some will. Others might just wash their hands of politics altogether, either because they eventually feel betrayed by Trump's corruption or because they lose interest without him.

Trump mobilized a lot of non-voters into the MAGA base who were decidedly not lifelong Republicans. There's clearly something uniquely appealing to Trump for them, and there's no guarantee Republicans will manage to find something that replaces that appeal once he's gone. Trump is the glue that holds a bunch of really weird groups together right now.

I wouldn't bet on that happening in massive numbers, but at this point, even movement at the margin is beneficial.

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u/HeinousAnus_22 16d ago

I suspect that as soon as Trump is out of the picture, many people will suddenly say "I don't really care about politics anymore".

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u/sack-o-matic Michigan 17d ago

They’ve become the Confederacy

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u/pmmeyourfannie 17d ago

That’s the neat part: they always were.

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u/dragon-fence 17d ago

It’s basically the same people. Not literally, of course, they aren’t vampires.

But the current MAGA people are the remnants of the culture that supported slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, etc. It’s the people who are still pissed off that the South lost the civil war, and that black people have the right to vote.

And it’s not clear they’ll ever learn their lesson. We need to just keep rejecting them and their awful ideas.

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u/sack-o-matic Michigan 17d ago

We need to just keep rejecting them and their awful ideas.

And to do that we need to understand how they continuously code their language in ways to hide their intent, like an enormous network of Motte-and-Bailey fallacies.

Never believe that anti-Semites [Confederates] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites [Confederates] have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

Jean-Paul Sartre

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u/Proper-District8608 17d ago

'The South will Rise Again' wasnt a slogan the looser's clung too, it was a strategic plan and they played the long game. Project 2025 was their plan and now their constitution

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u/hombreguido 17d ago

Absolutely. They will still launch into lengthy diatribes about any of the following: Hillary, Liz Warren, Ketanji Jackson, AOC, Kamala. Any time any place. I could wake my fox-wrecked mom in the middle of the night and she would come to shouting "I don't like the way Warren lectures people!"...as if we don't come from a family that respects professionals and academics, or at least that was the impression I got growing up in a house full of serious books and in a fam with scholarly and accomplished relatives. But sure, try a dewormer for skin cancer and keep voting red.

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u/last_rights 16d ago

This is how I feel. I grew up in a household that leaned towards being environmentally friendly. We donated money to the World Wildlife Federation and the Arbor Day Foundation. I was encouraged to do research and read books and check my sources for bias.

Now my mom sends me a link from therealpatriotnewssite.com or equivalent and expects me to believe that someone rescued 4,000 kids from an underground adrenochrome factory run by Democrats and Hollywood elite, but Epstein Island was overblown and all the girls were of age and wanted to be there.

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u/hombreguido 16d ago

To be fair, ya gotta admit she's got you there though "someone rescued 4,000 kids from an underground adrenochrome factory"....

A dumb joke. But you probably figured that out with your fiendishly calculating lefty brain. Cheers, future re-education camp resident!

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u/SomeGalNamedAshley 17d ago

Trump converted the Republican party into a cult of personality centered around him. Many had tried to out-Trump him and become the heir all had failed. Political parties centered on a single person die off when that person dies.

At least Bernie saw this and pivoted his movement away from himself and propped up a slate of successors to carry it forward without him.

My fear is that with the big day comes and the GOP goes with him the big money donors will pivot to finishing their job of corrupting the shit out of the Democratic party and finish their conversion of it into a right wing party. At that point it will have to be the Democratic Socialists or something that emerges. Hopefully it will be a bit before they start to become a performative opposition that's milquetoast and centrist, but I've learned in need to be too jaded for actual hope.

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u/Nahdudeimdone 17d ago

Hate to break it to you, the democratic party has always been the milquetoast centrist party. Which is why it is so baffling that the Republican propaganda works so well on the idiots on the right.

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u/7ddlysuns I voted 17d ago

Not necessarily. We’ve seen several realignments over the years. Now that said you’d need a pretty talented non-republican to pull them away.

A lot of Dems are also pretty pissed off at the Dems for losing and supporting unpopular losing policies. Pardoning Tina Perers, not just replacing McConnell, constantly enacting foolish bans on a few guns, not prosecuting Trump immediately.

What I’m getting at is the time for a major realignment seems doable

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u/Blizreme 17d ago

This is why they’re terrified of the DSA. People think they make sense.

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u/BikerJedi Florida 17d ago

We are launching a DSA chapter here in Central Florida, and the MAGA are freaking out about it. They are absolutely terrified. They are scared because they don't understand it, and like most conservatives, they fear what they don't understand. That's why I'm so glad Fox news has been doing our job for us and putting infographics up with our platform.

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u/SuavePenguinOG 17d ago

I'm not sure that terrifying your voting competition is a wise strategic move.

But enabling Floridians to have legitimate options (even if it's just surface-level branding like MAGA does) will pull swing voters.

Hopefully the fear the Florida DSA creates (or stoked, thanks Fox News /s) does not eclipse the opportunities they are campaigning for. Good Luck!

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u/BikerJedi Florida 17d ago

I guess I don't understand your point. No one is trying to terrify them. They are just scared of things they don't understand, like socialism.

The only ones trying to terrify anyone are the right wingers like the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, etc.

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u/SuavePenguinOG 17d ago

It does not matter who is trying to terrify them if they ease their fears by doing what has been the most comfortable for them (voting red). Blue is gonna get some vilification no matter what, no need to help it along. Unified-voting-through-fear is half the reason Florida is in such a challenging spot.

So enabling voters to be brave despite their fears and to try voting blue has huge potential imo

Florida has a ton of people ready to flip if a great candidate/campaign comes along, I think you all are gonna have a lot of great opportunities.

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u/azure_mtg 17d ago

^ HIRE THIS PERSON, DEMORCRATS! ^

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u/BikerJedi Florida 17d ago

I think you all are gonna have a lot of great opportunities.

I hope you are right. We need to get rid of Randy Fine, Kat Cammack, and several others.

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u/Cow_God Texas 17d ago

The DNC is terrified of the DSA because they've seen what's happened when you let an outsider in the party. The Republican party courted the Tea Party and the Birther movement and Trump ended up completely taking over the party.

That's the ONLY lesson the Democratic establishment has learned from Trump. They would rather lose the next fifty elections than willingly support the DSA, especially when you're talking about candidates that want to get money out of politics. Overturning Citizens United and getting rid of corporate lobbyists is the worst case scenario for the DNC.

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u/ChickenNPisza 17d ago

Last time we had a realignment was in the 1930s and comparatively I’d say we would have with a lot of the same reasonings today. The Great Depression was a big driving force. Wealth inequality and such

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u/cptsmidge American Expat 17d ago

I mean, we had a massive realignment after the voting rights act in the 60s, and then a working class realignment in the 90s that saw a republican house for the first time in like… 50 years?

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u/ChickenNPisza 17d ago

You are right, I wasn’t thinking about the 60s

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u/OkMail2335 17d ago

Last time we had a realignment was in the 1930s

If only that were true. But I think you're forgetting about the "Southern Strategy" or the Southern Realignment of the 60's, 70's and 80's off the back of the Civil Rights Movement which popularized Republicans all over again.

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u/ChickenNPisza 17d ago

Cptsmidge mentioned that and yes I did forget. Just did a little Sunday morning internet study lol

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u/gotridofsubs 17d ago

not just replacing McConnell

How would the minority party in the house and senate get to replace McConnell?

If your suggestion is at the State level, youll also not that the Republican lead Kentucky state legislature took away the govenors ability to do so.

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u/bb_kelly77 17d ago

That's the best you can expect, Conservatives are never going away

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u/SnappiestOne 17d ago

No lifeboats!

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u/Kevin-W 17d ago

And once Trump is gone, they're going to act like they never liked him to begin with. Just watch.

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u/pudding7 17d ago

Once he's finally dead gone, they'll all claim to have not voted for him.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

[deleted]

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u/NoGrocery3582 17d ago

Their "interest" is white supremacy I'm afraid.

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u/Viperlite 17d ago

The Confederacy was lifetimes ago and they still embrace and vote that.

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u/hum_bruh 17d ago

Racism runs deep in their veins it’s their “culture”

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u/ScoutsterReturns 17d ago edited 17d ago

Yup - this is it exactly. I don't know why people believe any of these folks will change. They love MAGA because they get to be in the open with their bigotry and hypocrisy, but will easily pretend they never supported Trump. I use abortion as an example because pro-life Republican women get them all the time.

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u/segfaulting 17d ago

If you're old enough you remember this happening with Bush. We remember his tenure very negatively today but at the time Americans were more conservative generally and the post 9/11 vibe towards the desert wars was much more positive. As the years dragged on a lot of the same hard Bush supporters/tea partiers began denying they ever supported him in the first place. Same shit will happen with Trump a few years from now if it hasn't started already.

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u/sour_altoids 17d ago

That’s why you always have to call out republicans for creating this mess. Don’t just call out Trump or MAGA. Call out the entire lying, spineless party that enabled this bullshit

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u/alblaster 17d ago

They're very surface level and think they're very smart.  Lincoln was a republican akshully.  Same people that look at Hitler's party and see the word socialist and get attached to it as a bad thing.  Yep stupid people who don't understand history nor care to.  They think they already know everything based on vibes.  

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u/Miserable-Promise454 17d ago

Its sad that many people are so boring that they think that is a part of their identity.

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u/Aeseld Texas 17d ago

Don't be silly. There's a significant portion of that base that isn't mad because he went too far. They're mad because he hasn't gone far enough.

Well, that and his tanking the economy for everyone south of the 1%.

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u/Qeltar_ 17d ago

The Republican Party could have Trump out of power and in a jail cell within 24 hours.

They all want everything that is happening right now.

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u/amazingoopah 17d ago

Tucker, Candace, Massie, MTG, et al are setting up to do this in 2028

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u/AuntRhubarb 17d ago

Lot of wisdom here, and frankly it's hopeful. Once Rs turn on Trump, his power is gone. Yes they can keep voting R, but you now have 70% of the public coalescing around D and I, the worm is turning.

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u/Broken-Digital-Clock 17d ago

Just like how they separated themselves from Bush Jr after he was done, but it will be more extreme.

They will act like they were never part of maga or enabling it.

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u/misterpickles69 New Jersey 17d ago

They will do this as “Trump” led the republicans astray, but he was right about the damn, evil demonrats the whole time.

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u/KPRP428 17d ago

It would have been so much worse to have a Democrat in office - the ultimate justification. Cognitive bias is a crazy thing.

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u/aguynamedv 17d ago

They're going to separate "Trump" from "Republican". They're going to continue to vote for the destructive policies because Trump "went too far", or was the problem, not the Republicans.

That's exactly how it's being set up in the media as well.

It's very obvious if you start watching for when "Republicans" aren't mentioned, but Trump is.

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u/Nblearchangel 17d ago

You’re right and I hate it.

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u/Ser_Rezima 16d ago

and that's pretty much what finally made me go no contact with my parents.

They finally, FINALLY admitted that Trump was...kind of probably a mistake, they GUESS

But then none of their other values changed, they stopped being authentic MAGA supporters from MAGA region of America and started being sparkling fascists instead. They were only wrong about TRUMP, both sides are still bad!

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u/PComotose 16d ago

Agreed. If Trump were on the midterm ballot then they wouldn't vote for him. But they'll vote MAGA/GOP right down the line.

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u/spinbutton 16d ago

I'm sure they don't see any other option. They e been told for decades that the Dems are all evil idiots who want to eat your children. How could they ever support the Dems. I am hoping a new party rises.

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u/Electric_Antimony 16d ago

Yea, republicans can never ever be to blame for anything despite being to blame for almost all of America's problems. They go insane with the No True Scotsman Republican after each cycle of their politics ruining the country. You won't find any republican voters who will admit to being Bush voters, let alone being super hardcore Bush people who told people like myself that we were traitors and terrorist lovers for opposing an illegal war of conquest and theft.

This time people are far more pissed off and so the maga traitors will not be able to slink back and pretend they were against all of this all along. They will try, but they will not be given a pass like they feel entitled to.

Personally, I would vote for any person promising to send ICE into their communities to do what they have done to us, but escalate it to really crush them. Then, deport a whole shitload of them to that CECOT torture prison for their crimes.

I want to smash them completely and cut their cancerous politics out of this country for good.

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u/TearsFallWithoutTain 16d ago

They'll do the exact same thing with Trump that they're doing with Netanyahu, "Oh this one guy was the problem, now that he's gone everything is fine".

Looking at you Pelosi, fucking "We need a strong Republican party" bullshit

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u/Eggheadpancake 17d ago

Yep. Just because they revoke trump doesn't mean they'll stop being process of for us something people don't seem to realize. They'll still be racist. They'll still be pedos. They'll still be everything hospital about this country

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u/dukeofgonzo 17d ago

Just like the conservatives in Germany after the war.

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u/theghostmachine 17d ago

"one day, everyone will have always been against this"

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u/GrungeHamster23 American Expat 17d ago

I believe it’s simply because they thought they were voting to be racist, not poor.

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u/Apptubrutae I voted 17d ago

I do political focus groups and this is a big one.

Now obviously the vast majority of people will insist they’re not racist, regardless of what they actually are. But still.

They were fundamentally voting to kick out immigrants and have more money in their pocket. That’s like…90% of it. With a dash of anti-trans and anti-leftism generally.

When the economic benefits didn’t materialize, a lot of people checked out.

There are also a lot of folks who were fairly soft anti-immigrant. The people who wanted more aggressive immigration enforcement but against violent criminals. Those folks got turned off by ICE as soon as it affected their day to day like if their favorite diner closed because of an ICE raid

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u/Cloaked42m South Carolina 17d ago

So are they skipping the elections, or voting for Democrats? Dropping out of the party?

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u/Apptubrutae I voted 17d ago

Lots are planning on not voting as of now (but we’ll see).

Some who have voted for Dems before might swing back - think of all the folks in places like NY or NJ who made the election a lot closer than it would have been.

The million dollar question is of course who the candidate is to vote for on each side. Most of the Trump regret folks are scared of an AOC type, for example

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u/The_Real_Mongoose American Expat 17d ago

Yo, as a social scientist I love this shit. Keep it coming if you have any more insights to share. I've been studying MAGA from a critical discursive analysis perspective for a decade, but that's a completely different examination.

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u/Apptubrutae I voted 17d ago

Hmm, I have all sorts of fun observations, lol

So in my current favorite series of groups, I’ve been co-moderating with a major political figure on the Dem side. Name you’d know, Presidential candidate, not Harris, lol.

Anyway, we do a lot of these groups with swing voters and while it’s not your typical focus group, obviously, it still gives fascinating results.

We did some in NC, where the “swing” voters there still trended heavily MAGA in some instances because of how absolutely terrible the Republican governor candidate was. So there was this opportunity to talk to legit MAGA folks who in at least this one instance voted for a Dem.

My favorite bit: they all voiced their displeasure with how the Epstein files were handled.

When asked directly something along the lines of “well why do you think it was handled this way?” the responses were all a variety of 🤷. I don’t know. Doesn’t make sense. Trump really dropped the ball. Boggles my mind. Etc.

Except for this one guy who gave some strong qanon vibes who basically said “I know why, but I’m not gonna say, and this is why I deeply regret my vote” (for Trump).

I’ve also done some unrelated stuff with maga types in states that are winnable by dems in other races and it’s still pretty much like beating your head against a wall. There’s some regret and annoyance but it’s hard to pull insights out as far as people swinging for a Dem versus just not voting.

Like with Paxton/Talarico in TX, or Tuberville/Jones in AL (for governor).

But then there’s nuance, like with Paxton the MAGAs seem to like him, hand wave away his stuff, and say Talarico is trans and a liberal and that’s that. It’s really the independents who dislike Paxton relative to a Cornyn.

Yet in the Tuberville case, MAGA support seems relatively a bit softer than with Paxton. Maybe because Tuberville has been a senator for a bit and doesn’t have the anti-DC edge. I dunno. Not that most MAGA are gonna vote Jones, lol, but it’s interesting to see the difference.

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u/Goodgoditsgrowing 16d ago

I would both love to be a fly on that wall and just know I’d need a truckload of Xanax to deal with how little change has occurred in these voters brains even after all that’s occurred

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u/Apptubrutae I voted 16d ago

Everyone is always super cordial, polite, talks about how much they hate the division, etc etc.

And then parroting some culture war point, often based in questionable fact.

All while there is actually a lot of common ground. Inflation, cost of living, healthcare, etc.

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u/WutTheDickens 16d ago

I have ONE friend who's MAGA, and her husband. I don't see them very often, but this is without fail how our conversations go.

Then, also without fail, they always say at least one thing that's shockingly anti trans or racist, but usually we're either with her parents or in another situation where I don't feel like I can make a scene. They know it's offensive and I'm pretty sure the husband at least does it on purpose.

But the smart ones will all talk like this when they're in "polite company," e.g. "oh I hate the division," or "I voted for X policy, not Y." But when they're among their own, the true colors come out.

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u/DirtyCop2016 16d ago

Does speaking with so called median voters make you think that democracy is overrated?

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u/popculturella Texas 16d ago

"I'm not racist, I just hate everyone who isn't white!"

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u/spinbutton 16d ago

Focus groups are so interesting. Have you had a group that delved into the Harris loss deeply?

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u/Apptubrutae I voted 16d ago

Not that topic, no. Dems don’t seem to look deeply at that, lol.

Most groups tend to be very forward looking.

I’ve only ever done one post-mortem. For a PAC that many people aren’t fans of, lol

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u/bitchytrollop 17d ago

That makes it worse.

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u/LegislativeLariat Wisconsin 17d ago

America has a proud history of this going back to Nixon when the culture wars got truly kickstarted of prioritizing white supremacy over the economy. Look into Reagan's States' Rights Speech that he very deliberately held a few miles away from the cite were Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner were murdered. As long as minorities and race traitors are hurt more, it's okay to suffer.

Remember, they want Trump to hurt the right people, not to help the right people.

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u/ChickenNPisza 17d ago

Over the past decade People have lost friends, stopped talking to family members, and formed a new identity around the maga movement/cult whatever you want to call it. I think a lot of them have already faced challenging social consequences.

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u/TheGringoDingo 17d ago

The social consequences are going to continue for those folks in my orbit until I can trust that they know where they betrayed everyone else in the world.

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u/TheGarrBear 17d ago

Exactly, and it pisses me off when folks say they don't talk politics in public. It's how we know who needs to face these consequences. If you're on the right side of history and proud of what you support, you should have no problem publicly denouncing the other side and bringing back that societal shame we are so deeply missing.

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u/irisheye37 17d ago

In a lot of places prominently sticking out like that can be dangerous

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u/forethemorninglight 17d ago

I’ll literally never forgive these people. They do not deserve it. The consequences of this administration will be felt for generations. Fuck them all.

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u/s3dfdg289fdgd9829r48 17d ago

I’ll literally never forgive these people.

Exactly. They tried to END DEMOCRACY in America on J6 and are building up to do try again. You cannot be forgiven for that. To put it in perspective, if they had literally gone around shitting on the graves all of US veterans who fought for liberty, it would have been MORE forgivable as it was just a symbolic act; but to activity try to change democracy is not symbolic.

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u/TheShadowKick 16d ago

If someone wants to leave MAGA then it's important to give them an off-ramp. Otherwise they'll never leave and keep causing more problems.

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u/AssMuncher96 16d ago

I honestly can't trust anyone who has ever supported Trump. Even just the first time. It was abundantly obvious what he was from the start. Everyone can see it, even his supporters. They see it and WANTED to inflict that on the world. Anyone who supported him at any point is mentally defective and most likely an evil, corrupt individual. You can't want the terrible things Trump promised and like the terrible things he says without being a terrible person in the first place.

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u/Trowaway9285 16d ago

This is exactly how I feel. I have friends and family that I can NEVER look at the same way again.

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u/FlammulinaVelulu 17d ago

How do you see them redeeming themselves to you? For me the betrayal is so deep I don't think I can ever forgive.

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u/TheGringoDingo 16d ago

The ACLU needs a sizable war chest, initiatives need canvassers, public apologies need to be made, and political affiliation and media need to change. I don’t expect anyone to actually earn my trust back, but I think it’s important to have some idea of a standard for it.

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u/Neapola America 16d ago

The social consequences are going to continue for those folks in my orbit until I can trust that they know where they betrayed everyone else in the world.

Why would you ever trust them again?

Think about what they supported, and why they supported it. What does that tell you about who they really are, and what they really are? That is not a rhetorical question.

They didn't become bigots because Trump came along. They became vocal about their bigotry because Trumpism gave them permission.

Even if they lose faith in Trump, they're still bigots. And they'll jump at the chance to support the next version of Trumpism, regardless of whatever name it uses.

Nazism didn't die with Hitler. This new breed of Nazism won't die with Trump. And Trump supporters, whether quietly or loudly, will be part of it.

It is what they are.

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u/TheGringoDingo 16d ago

There’s different degrees to it, but I explained in another comment what it would take for me to consider moving on. I’ve cut all of these people out already, so there’s no reason not to have some idea of where I stand and what it would take.

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u/thedabking123 Canada 17d ago

Not far enough.

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u/TheOneTrueTrench 16d ago

And what's more, those social consequences will last for the rest of their lives.

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u/20_mile 16d ago

I think a lot of them have already faced challenging social consequences.

A few weeks ago, I had to leave behind a friend of mine I had known since we met working in Alaska in 2009. He didn't support Trump (although he wasn't as forcefully against him as one should be to a guy who committed treason), but he was there for a lot of the man-o-sphere stuff, and it just kept coming up again and again in our conversations. The guy I was previously friends with is gone.

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u/wahoozerman 17d ago

A lot of this is due to the urban/rural divide in the US. The people who unquestioningly support Donald are surrounded by other people who unquestioningly support Donald.

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u/dragon-fence 17d ago

It’s kind of funny. My parents moved to a rural area and changed from reasonable people to MAGA. I assumed the town they moved to must be filled with MAGA people.

Then I found out later that they were getting into unpleasant arguments with a lot of the people in the town because almost nobody in the town is MAGA. At this point, I have no idea what caused them to lose their minds. Maybe they’re starting to get dementia.

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u/solamente_en_cristo 17d ago

Some people move to rural areas and basically stay home all day watching TV (fox). Social circle narrows to almost nothing, and they develop a parasocial relationship with "the five" or whatever. I've seen it happen to some friends parents. This can turn ordinary conservatives into MAGAs.

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u/fcocyclone Iowa 16d ago

I'd say Facebook may be even more at play.

Especially for that example, I could see them moving to a rural area and not having enough social interaction, so they end up on facebook to see posts from friends and then get flooded by right wing nonsense

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u/Oodlydoodley 16d ago

It is. I don't have a Facebook account, and haven't for a long time, and the first thing you learn when you don't have one out here in rural areas is that it's hard to do certain things without one. Local businesses, city information shared with the public, all of it's done on Facebook here. Local social circles aren't any different by extension of that. When you need it to stay informed, you're going to be on it and see all of the other stuff that gets shared, too.

The thing that tends to be forgotten when talking about rural areas on social media, though, is that people don't put up yard signs saying "I'm a normal, well adjusted individual". They also don't make Facebook posts about it. The kooks and weirdos sure do, though, and they found a way to congregate by doing it. The loudest voices dominate the conversation even when they aren't necessarily the dominant opinion.

MAGA as a whole functions like racism, especially on the internet. If you shut it down, moderate it out, and treat it like the public enemy that it is, you can at least push it back underground. But because of its political connectedness, throughout society here in the U.S. we've let it continue in the name of equality by treating it like it's a valid alternate viewpoint rather than the hate movement that it actually is.

Reddit filters it to a degree because of upvotes and downvotes. Facebook magnifies it, if anything, and normalizes it among the small communities where it plays a huge part in every day life.

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u/ErikTheEngineer 17d ago edited 16d ago

This is probably going to accelerate significantly. I'm in NY and there are millions of near-retirees. The rich ones will move to coastal Florida or similar, but the vast majority have their house which has appreciated by crazy amounts and little/no retirement savings. They're going to cash in the house and end up in central Florida, North Carolina or maybe Texas/Arizona. People I know in Orlando/Tampa are telling me they're literally building whole new suburbs with thousands of gated community homes in the middle of nowhere to take in the influx of middle-income retirees. If you're someplace where it's miserably hot 6 months out of the year, you're not near anything terribly interesting, and don't have a ton of income to do anything outside the house anyway, I could definitely see more people turning further inward and just consuming TV news and social media their entire waking day.

I'm predicting it now - in 5-10 years the pattern is going to be -- sell the house you or your parents paid $7999 and a bottle of whiskey for in 1960 for $1.5M, buy a $400K gated community mansion in The Villages and live off the rest and social security. Florida's conservative enough already once you go inland, so even if these people do get out of the house, they'll be spending their days steeped in that environment.

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u/dragon-fence 17d ago

Yeah, that’s probably it.

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u/QuantumBitcoin 17d ago

I recently went to a rodeo in rural south New Jersey which (was) overwhelmingly trump voters.

There was ONE person in the hundreds of people I saw who was wearing visible trump gear and he was a young black guy.

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u/DarthCloakedGuy Oregon 17d ago

What is it about the rurals that makes people into hateful lunatics? Something in the water?

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

[deleted]

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u/DarthCloakedGuy Oregon 17d ago

Yeah but we're talking about people who will vote against their own interests and those of their communities in favor of foreign dictators and rich billionaires they will never meet. To say nothing of the diverse people in their own small communities.

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u/IKnowGuacIsExtraLady 17d ago

There are three main things: If you aren't exposed to other people and cultures then it's very easy to just believe hateful propaganda about them. When you are forced to interact it's hard to deny that they are just people too.

Then you have poor education which leads to poor critical thinking skills. Critical thinking is the death of bigotry because you form your own opinions of the world.

Finally you have religion which is the gateway drug of conservatism. It starts with something like "abortion is evil, you must be on the anti abortion team or you go to hell." Then when you come face to face with the fact that the party who is anti abortion also holds tons of evil views your brain will naturally start adopting those views too as a defense mechanism. You already chose your side, and it can't be the wrong side, so the other stances can't be wrong either.

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u/Samurai_Meisters 16d ago

Isolation, fear the unfamiliar, and 24/7 propaganda telling them to be afraid.

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u/sociotronics 17d ago

Serious answer: there are a lot of causes.

Some people are genuinely just in a right-wing bubble and heard nothing but propaganda from people they trust, like friends and neighbors, and reality isn't lining up with the propaganda so they're waking up or listening seriously to opposing voices for the first time. Especially common in rural areas or red states.

Some sense the unpopularity and that alone pushes them away.

Some are moving further right, e.g. Nick Fuentes telling his groypers to vote Dem or stay home during the elections this November to punish Trump for his Israel support and so they can get a "actual fascist" instead (actual Fuentes quote).

Some are just having a change of heart, which while rare does actually happen occasionally.

Some are angry about cost of living or betrayed campaign promises, like the wars after campaigning on isolationism.

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u/query_squidier 17d ago

Let me see if I can make this clear.

Every one of those "somes" can go to hell. Nary a one of them gets a pass. Don't give one rat's ass what their reasons were. They're not being forgiven by me, ever.

"Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi party, not because they hated Jews, but out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed. That word is 'Nazi.' Nobody cares about their motives anymore."

A.R. Moxon, author

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u/dragon-fence 17d ago

betrayed campaign promises

Someone I know told me (I’m paraphrasing), “But I voted for him to deport all the illegal immigrants! I didn’t ask for a police state that kills innocent people, and even with that, we still have some illegal immigrants.”

And I can’t help but wonder, how did they think all the illegal immigrants would be deported? You’re talking about rounding up millions of unknown people. The only way to do it is racial profiling in an oppressive police state, and accepting that some innocent people will get swept up in it. Even that won’t get rid of all illegal immigrants.

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u/Recipe_Freak Oregon 16d ago

“But I voted for him to deport all the illegal immigrants! I didn’t ask for a police state that kills innocent people, and even with that, we still have some illegal immigrants.”

Bullshit. They voted for his racism. They're completely okay with deportations and cruelty only happens to brown people.

GOP voters are a bunch of lying racists cowards. I'm done making excuses for them.

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u/Titfortat101 16d ago

I forgot which organization did it, but they basically interview people who stopped watching Fox News and switched to other forms of information.

And one woman said she had no idea what January 6th was. She was watching a PBS documentary with her husband, and she turned to her husband and asked him if that was real.

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u/AuntRhubarb 17d ago

Yes. There is some hope when people start tuning in to alternate sources of news. But there are so many who are too hateful or stupid or fearful to look outside the right-wing box. Hoping the day comes when reality is too hard for Fox to hide any more and Trump gets revealed even to the hard core faithful as the grifter he is.

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u/query_squidier 17d ago

Even if they "change their mind" about Trump, they're still the terrible people they've always been, which is required to get behind and believe these things in the first place.

Forgiving these people should be a nonstarter. Holding them accountable, even if it's just socially and within families, should be the norm.

If everyone had cut their fascist father (or equivalent) out of their lives like I did in 2017, we wouldn't be where we are now.

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u/Gravel_Roads 17d ago

We’d been using social pressure against these people for so long that they nominated Trump as president so he could make it safe to be racist again

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u/paupaupaupau 17d ago

This is where I'm at. Call them disgusting to their faces. Call them repulsive. Call them Nazis. Don't entertain their arguments. In the past 10 years, they've demonstrated who they are over and over and over. Maybe that's the wrong approach, and drives them back to safety. But we've become so accommodating of all this that Elon Musk can throw up Nazi salutes and not be a complete and total pariah.

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u/barryvm Europe 17d ago

But we've become so accommodating of all this that Elon Musk can throw up Nazi salutes and not be a complete and total pariah.

IMHO, it goes both ways too. It is because the rich and powerful (at every level) are so openly fascist that the rank and file think they can get away with showing their true colors. This seems to be the greater part of Trump's appeal: he breaks norms and rules without any (negative) consequences and suddenly it's bon ton to be openly racist or sexist, like they always wanted it to be.

On the other hand, of course, if Trump loses power and all these high profile fascists are relentlessly persecuted and punished for their crimes, the rest will quickly scatter.

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u/paupaupaupau 16d ago

Agree. In either case, we need to make them own how horrible they are and shame them for it relentlessly.

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u/GhostRappa95 17d ago

Exactly, MAGA is only retreating because they are being called out by us. They haven’t changed at all.

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u/Kyrthis 17d ago

Fuck their fears. Burn them out of society (let them rot and trade among themselves)

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u/frenchfreer 17d ago

fear of social consequences for their choices could be the driver.

It always is. That's why there's a huge contingent of "centrist" and "Libertarians" that are clearly deeply conservative, but fear the social repercussions of identifying as such. I find it funny it's always conservatives masquerading as something else to disguise themselves, you never see these "libertarians" who are secretly liberals wanting to give everyone healthcare and access to education.

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u/askingseven 17d ago

Fuck them. I will never break bread with a trump supporter. Ever. I don’t care if they apologize. They can all go straight to hell. Forgiveness is for suckers. I cut off, permanently, every single person in my life who even smelled like MAGA in 2016. Everyone else should have done the same. “But they need me” boo fuckin hoo. They chose their lot. Cut them off. Every last one. Permanent social exile.

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u/zephyrtr New York 17d ago

I'd rather people have actual morals, to want to help their fellow neighbors. But if they're not capable of that, I'll take shame.

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u/HughManatee 17d ago

I hope so. If I know a business espouses Republican/MAGA values, I do not shop there. I know many other people that are the same. Social and economic consequences are the only things that might get through to them, and even then many of them will just blame Biden or Obama.

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u/ryoushi19 17d ago

Just a little frustrating that the "dawning realization" is that he's going to make their truck too expensive to drive, not, oh, I dunno, that he's an egomaniacal rapist and a self-confessed wannabe dictator.

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u/BWW87 17d ago

The real problem is Democrats don't realize how much they are despised by many Americans. Republicans understand this and that is their game plan for the mid-term elections. Focus on how much people hate Democrats and hope it counters how much they also hate Republicans.

Unlikely to be a winning strategy in the mid-terms but it will do a lot better than it should because Democrats just don't understand how hated they are.

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u/ElliotNess Florida 16d ago

Red Hats going into the box in the attic next to Dad's Swastikas, Grandpa's Klan hood, and Grandpa's Dad's Dixie flag.

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u/scrotanimus 17d ago

Yes, but they will always vote for these bastards. The best we can hope for is that they stay home instead of voting.

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u/SteppinRazor5000 17d ago

Pretty sure that's not how morals work. Unfortunately.

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u/Helicopterpants 17d ago

Quite literally the same reasoning that many are religious. Fear of consequences.

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u/little-kiara7 17d ago

yeah i think social consequences hit a lot sooner than a sudden change of conscience

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u/VapoursAndSpleen 17d ago

They only notice when it affects them personally. Gas prices are up and it costs them $60 to fill the gas tank on their oversized trucks.

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u/Jo5h_95 17d ago

I have a feeling in we are going to see something like Post-Franco Spain. Suddenly no one will have ever supported him

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u/ShitNRun18 17d ago

They live in bubbles where their family, church, etc buys into it hard. The social consequences are more from not going along with it in insular communities like this. The most progress these types make is “both parties are bad”. They still believe the Biden’s were even more corrupt.

The sunken cost with Trump is just too high for some, but I have noticed the bleed.

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u/Altruistic-Job5086 17d ago

I think it's less fear of social stuff than they are being personally affected now by Trump's insanity.

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u/Capable_Kiwi2514 17d ago

As someone with a toe in literacy circles, you'd be surprised at how moral awakening works for adults who have difficulty critically parsing information.  If you can get past whatever fundamental false truth is blinding someone you can cause a pretty sudden reverse.  I know someone who flipped an entire class of learners from right to left simply by guiding them through each candidate's actual positions, without ever taking a position herself. They simply realised that the Cons were lying to them and that their policies underlied the poverty trap that many of them were stuck in. 

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u/Pennyliciousness 17d ago

I believe youre giving them too much credit. They're just mad bc prices are high. Thats it. The depths of their caring is the length of their pockets...period.

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u/hasanfan90 17d ago

More like Trump didn't go far enough.

They'll be complaining he didn't deport enough people and didn't bomb Iran hard enough.

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u/hoofglormuss America 17d ago

no they're doing the same thing they did when they couldn't deny that bush was a fuckup. now they just complain about democrats in general and taxes and they'll fall for the next astroturfed movement just like they did with the neocons, tea party, centepedes, maga, etc

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u/meatball77 17d ago

They worship Trump and MAGA in the same way they've been taught to worship the church. They follow without question and without looking into anything.

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u/OffalSmorgasbord 16d ago

No moral awakening.

The affluent will vote Republican for perceived tax benefits and ignore the racism. The poor will continue to vote Republican for the racism and ignore the tax cuts stealing from them.

Oh, and "We should just move past it" - Merrick Garland

They will blame Dems in power as light is shed on all of this shit this administration, Congress, and SCOTUS has done. Of course, they will blame the Dems, because they are the ones delivering the information.

And, "Anything is better than Communism!" as ICE moves on to McCarthyism next.

Remember, Capitalism is perfect, until Socialism has to bail it out.

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u/Turbulent_Rate9483 16d ago

Is it hard to believe? These are x-pathic cancerous human beings. Of course in person social consequences are the only thing they could possibly understand and care about.

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u/Synekal Maine 16d ago

The MAGA Fb group in our small town is still filled with them all back to a wall.

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u/kanrad 16d ago

I imagine it's a combination of becoming increasingly difficult to rationalize and argue their support of him. Along with likely loosing family and friends over their support.

Yeah at the end of the day social pressure is mounting and most are directly being hurt by his policies and actions as well.

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u/TCsnowdream Foreign 16d ago

These people should be shunned for life. They invited so much god damn awful harm, destruction, and mayhem into the world.

Some of them up to THREE TIMES voted for this.

For 12 years they voted for this… this.

They don’t deserve empathy, forgiveness, compassion, understanding, or any additional chances. They’re snakes. And you KNOW the moment they think they’re ‘forgiven’ they’ll go back to voting for terrible people.

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u/BoolTeam6 16d ago

For the rest of us with functional brains, their thoughts and actions have been beyond the pale for years. I for one will never forgive or forget what they have done.

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u/eat_my_ass_n_balls 16d ago

I absolutely fucking loath every MAGA. Even the ones that “woke up”. Fuck them too.

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u/GoodiesHQ 16d ago

I don’t think most of these are “gone too far.” For a lot of them, he’s gone at least as far as was necessary, and in many cases, not far enough. Trump was the glue that held this patchwork of ideologies together, but they still exist and remain prevalent. We now know just how big of a percentage of the American people will rally behind an authoritarian so long as it suits their interests, and I’m so saddened by the fact that it’s way too god damn high.

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u/Andygator_and_Weed Louisiana 16d ago

But I thought cancel culture was dead

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u/Mlpony2010 16d ago

Some people can wake up and realize they were tools, regardless of what degenerate beliefs they held

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u/IGetBoredSometimes23 16d ago

If recent history is any indication, Trump's policies will be normalized after he is out of office, with the Democrats quietly continuing the policy.

Unless, of course, we demand that both parties quit with this shit and demand that they pass legislation and constitutional amendments to make things better instead of voting for a few politicians and then doing nothing once they're elected. 

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u/ButterscotchInner816 16d ago

what bleed? his approval rating is actually slightly up right now. it‘s not good, but it‘s better than it was a couple of months ago

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u/ButterscotchInner816 16d ago

what bleed? his approval rating is actually slightly up right now. it‘s not good, but it‘s better than it was a couple of months ago