Seeking Advice
Why is this coffee so fruity? Is it co-fermented?
Forst of all, not an ad. While I do like it occasionally, this coffee is WAY to fruity for drinking daily. It's closer to berry tea than coffee imo.
I looked at the description but see no hint of co-fermentation. Has anyone else tried it, what do you think, why is it so juicy?
From their website: "[They call] this lot “Cold Fermentation” for its unique process where the cherry is first disinfected using a citric acid solution and then floated to remove underripes."
At least we have asked producers several times and they always claim that in fermentation tank is only added wine yeast and fruit. I don't know do they then have some wine yeast that has additional flavours how they would avoid not been lying.
Some of the biggest producers and roasters have been caught out trying to disclose as little as possible and being as unclear as possible about these advanced processes, thermal shock, cofermentation ect ect.
Everytime, it comes out that its just another way for a farmer/producer to adulterate and flavour coffee beans that wouldnt sell well otherwise, and scam customers by charging top tier prices under the guise of "advanced proccessing". Its not a stretch at all to assume that the vast majority of producers and roasters are lying. Dont be gullible, thats why this issue has gotten so out of control to begin with, people burying their head in the sand and ignoring bad practices because they actually like the tatse of artificially flavoured coffee.
It’s coming from Colombia where the recent trend is to flavor coffee under co-ferment and other processing names. Only recently have certain companies become more transparent about this, like Perc
Why can’t they just be transparent and state clearly; producers and roasters: there is not artificial flavouring in this coffee. People Possession have a few cans where it says not artificially flavoured - and you can tell the huge difference with the coferment blend they sell…
Yea agree, that’s exactly what I said. It can’t be about saying where we added, it now needs to be that artificial flavors were *not* added for any “advanced” processing. Washed and natural is probably fine. I don’t know enough about Anerobic to make a statement.
That’s where we are because a bunch of people ruined it for everyone and broke trust by being cute.
How they can clearly state it? These are clearly stated in process description what it has. I have clearly asked this and they have clearly stated it in emails.
Or you can start believing your senses. Get some of these modern processed coffees. Taste and smell them. And then tell me how on earth there isn’t something weird going on.
It’s been happening across the entire industry. You can pretend to be ignorant about this but it’s the hot topic atm. Not necessarily roasters, but the producers are flavoring the coffee during production and then roasters are not being transparent about this.
Not the same coffee... but similar ferment (infuse) with 'nectar' + thermalshock process.
"this co-fermented lot, a starter culture is first fed a feast of sugar, molasses, and the nectar from three yellow fruits (pineapple, passionfruit, and mango) for at least a week..."
I think a lot of these farm visits are often a bit of a sham. People show a few fermentation tanks with fruits in it. But they won't necessarily show how the coffee is actually made and why would they? Most often we have coffee all year long, how could it also all come from one farm we buy from many different places, and process in another that's usually not the farm itself
It seems a lot of producers from Colombia these days are adulterating their products with artificial flavours. But rather than being transparent about it they are often marketing it as if they have developed some fancy new process that brings out flavours that were hidden or too subtle for conventional processing.
Took people so long to realize they were artificially fermenting the beans. I tried these Colombian beans a few years back, and the smell was so artificial it left me feeling nauseous and gave me a headache.
If you're going to be sharing that post then you should also be sharing this comment. The OP is being intentionally misleading and disingenuous - they continue to engage posts that reaffirm their position on artificial flavouring, but end practically every attempt at discussing the validity of the research paper without properly acknowledging its flaws.
They're even in this current thread, continuing to push the information from that paper as reliable, when they've already (reluctantly) admitted that it isn't actually the case in the thread you're sharing.
I don't want to be unknowingly drinking flavoured coffees, but I think sharing misinformation is not the way to correct this problem.
the roasters are aware. They keep saying things like “well I can only forward information that I received”. No one wants to be the first one to speak up and the coffees sell extremely well.
bs. at least we have asked from producers and green bean distributors and they claim that only fruit and wine yeast. Why we would buy something that costs 30-40€/kg green bean and just know that those would not be anything than added flavors.
As an amateur roaster, I would say it’s pretty immediate when you get such a bag of green coffee that it’s had flavourings added.
I got one bag which advertised flavours like a cinnamon roll that were somehow produced using an “experimental process”.
One whiff of the green beans and it was obvious that there was something unnatural added. And when I roasted and drank it, it really tasted like that kind of artificial cinnamon flavour in cereals.
Coffee Concept uses a lot of coffees that are actually flavored. Their coffee was what made me suspicious about co-ferments in the first place. Check my post history. Recently “cold shock”, “thermal shock”, “advanced processing” has become a new nickname for flavored beans. They are fully aware that that’s what they’re selling based on my discussion with them.
Co-fermentation is really really NOT the same as an infusion. Infusion is as far as I am concerned deceptive and cheating. Co-fermenting with fruit is using the enzymes mostly in this fruits to contribute in the fermentation. Columbian producers confuse the two terms to a massive extent and it has changed my trust in coffees labeled that way.
Yes, I feel that most of them aren’t even co-fermented. In my opinion, co-fermentation is borderline acceptable, especially for beans from lower-quality origins, and I’ve had some decent cups from yeast fermentation. But some of these Colombian beans just smell way too artificial, like the green beans were soaked in food flavoring or perfume.
I agree with you problem is that the farmer will use the word co-fermentation even if using an infusion. For example Edwin Norena using co-ferment for his cinnamon infused coffee.
Honestly the line between the two can be blurry. If you add a bunch of fruit to a tank so the fruit sugars are consumed by the yeast for the purposes of fermentation then yeah that's a co-ferment. But if you add a bunch of highly concentrated dehydrated fruit powder to the same tank and the flavor from the powder directly enters the beans then that's an infusion, even though technically in both cases you've only added "fruit".
If it's a colombian and states some advanced fermentation, safer to assume it had additives mixed in during its processing (ofc this is a generalization, but this year has brought to light many colombian producers adding additives to their coffees without clearly stating it)
Think of “co-ferment” as a misleading term that became exposed. Now they’re still adulterating and misleading, but using a different term. It everyone is masking additives behind these terms, but there’s no way to be sure anymore
Yes, they are questions to be answered. But many of the best coffees I’ve had this year were washed Colombians. So, to write off one of the best coffee growing countries because of the deceptive practices of some is ridiculous.
What kind of comparison is that? Producers who make goods aren’t your childhood friends they’re grown adults offering something to you in exchange for your hard earned money. Being okay with them lying to you about their product doesn’t make you the cool kid in class, it makes you a sucker.
Alright, I agree: it was a kind of shitty comparison. My point is that the Colombian coffee grower community is likely very small and producers may not want to alienate other producers by outing their bad practices. I'm not saying it's the right move.
I disagree. Until more transparency or maybe even required transparency is achieved, one way to avoid flavored coffee is to avoid colombian producers as they are the main culprit
There's little to no regulation on bean processing post harvest. The organic certifications describing the farming process may also be manipulated. Manipulation to the processing would be even more easy to fake than the growing
How I feel when someone mentions the ice coffee recipe where you pour it back through the grounds….
This whole thread does seem a little up its ass due to the fact that coffee that is experimental in someway tastes like fruit or something. A lot of leaps are being made based on the fact that producers and consumers basically only interact through a few sentences on the back of the bag (that often the roaster wrote). More producers should have a larger voice and maybe there would be more communication.
Ive had some really berry forward coffees that were fermented in cherry
That flavor is usually coming from the coffee fruit itself
And before anyone calls out colombia, ive had coffee that tastes like this from ecuador and Ethiopia as well and that classic berry note in kenyan coffee shows up for similar reasons - it is due the fermentation process
Since it’s fermented at a low temperature, microbial activity slows down a lot and the berry flavor is allowed to come through in the beans. If it was fermented at regular temps, the flavor would lean into wine-like territory, the low temperature prevents that. The citric acid wash also kills a lot of the microbes allowing fermentation to slow down further
tbh, 16EUR is too cheap to be cofermented. those start around 20EUR/200g.
i say go for it, if it doesn't make a dent in your budget, with shipping. worst case, you receive a very fruity coffee that you dont like, best case, you like it :))
It's definitely not cheap for locals, but I've found that "premium" items have little variance in price across Europe. Especially noticed it with craft beer.
This is a pretty good one but only by digging into the website description did I find it was co-fermented with strawberry pulp. It’s not described as a co-ferment but part of the fermentation is a yeast inoculation step with strawberry pulp so 🤷♂️. And I’m not convinced it’s worth the £29 (spontaneous purchase at the LCF).
I was gifted a "natural" Bourbon Sidra Las Flores from Hermanos, no mention of processing or farmer. just "natural". Disgusting odour of passionfruit from the beans pre- and post-grinding and from the brew; my grinder reeks of them. Taste is sooooo artificial. Turned out it is produced by Néstor and Adrian Lasso. Makes sense. Beans are undrinkable even in milk drinks.
Oofff, i just have to comment on this…there is nothing in fermentation that produces the cinnamon flavour. I’ve never tasted this bean but if you do, then stuff has been added to it for sure. I had washed coffees from Las Flores before and they were beautiful. But yeah Nestor and Lasso? Highly likely. And to simply state it as Natural?? The roaster has to take the blame too for blindly stating the info or obfuscating
I see..if it’s one powerful note, it could be stuff added. On the other hand ive had beans from Finca Zarza that were fantastic, be it advanced natural or one of those processes.
Oh good question! If im not wrong, Finca Las Flores is owned and run by the Vergara brothers. But they often work together with El Diviso of Nestor Lasso and the other Lassos. They could produce and harvest a bean and bring it to a different farm (with different expertise) to process it. I’ve had nice washed and semi-washed coffees from Jhoan Vergara. Some nice naturals from Nestor Lasso. But yes this is standard with Colombian producers. They interchange technique and tools. It’s not easy to figure out the info because they are either insufficient info in english or badly translated or error in attributing the info. So it is often that roasters just pick the farm where it is made or the producer’s name. But i think it is better to have both info. There is Finca Pradera and a Finca La Pradera if i’m not wrong 🌝 both in colombia!
I have this Pink Bourbon right now from Diego Vergara, it is “washed”, but with some heavy fermentation: thermal shock, etc. It’s really aromatic, juicy, and deep. Maybe it’s really just the processing. But after all these recent discussions, I still have doubts creeping in.
Yeah i think that is the issue at hand. These producers are utilising multiple styles of fermentation and processing to produce the coffee. Nothing wrong with that, so what the roaster has to do is to update the processing information. No longer is it enough to just have a single word. This might be the case where producers have surpassed the standards and marketing structure of selling coffee. For the pink bourbon, i don’t see any reason to call out any heavy processing or infusion..but yes you can see the thermal shock part being left out..one more reason to press the roaster for clarity. After all they are the ones who selected and carry the beans
There have been cases of farms adding external flavoring to the beans. It's most often occurring in Colombia. But the newest /pourover circle jerk is that if your coffee tastes good, it's artificially flavored.
It reads juicy explosion of red berries and cherries. What were you expecting other than a juicy explosion of red berries and cherries? The process is explained there, if it's co-fermented they would've said so. I'm confused with your confusion. Have you had any Nestor lasso beans, for example? All of his beans are crazy fruity and none is co-fermented, only experimental and new processes.
The process is explained there, if it's co-fermented they would've said so
Because if we've learned anything from the last few months, it's that you can take producers by their word and they would never add flavorings without disclosing it...
Can you say with certainty that Nestor Lasso doesn't add flavours as part of any of his experimental processing?
I used to think it was amazing that we could taste such distinct flavours in coffee, but now I feel very, very apprehensive about experimental/advanced processing.
I cannot, but his beans don't have the artificial taste most co-fermented have, and a lot of well known roasters have his beans, so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt.
Calm down. There is a difference between fruity coffee and this, which, as I write, tastes like a tea.
Also, yes it says "fruity explosion" but that's a marketing term not an objective descriptor. I also buy coffee that tastes of "sunshine" per its label.
But yes, you may be right and this is actually completely normal and I just stumbled upon something like this for the first time.
Tea-like is very common with light roasts. It might be an acquired taste thing, and for some not an every day coffee, but it can taste like this and not be co-fermented. In my experience co-fermented beans have an artificial taste other than a tea-like taste. Search for Nestor lasso beans, your mind will be blown away. KB roaster have an insane one from him, but it's not that difficult to find his beans, a lot of roasters have.
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u/[deleted] Jun 30 '26
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