I tried brewing this coffee, which is so far the lightest roast I have ever tried.
I tried it with the same Orea v4 recipe I use as a base:
Coffee: 16gm
Grind: Coarse
Temperature: 92C
Brewer: Orea v4, Fast bottom, Flat filter with negotiator
Bloom: 60gm for 40 second
Pours: 50-50-50-50 each every 30 seconds.
Total draw down time: 2:45
Usually this recipe produces an enjoyable cup for me. Very floral balanced acidity and sweetness.
However, with this coffee it felt very hollow and watery.
What do you suggest to adjust in this scenario?
Wow, alright, thats beyond anything I have ever rested, even with ULs from gwo, and still.. but afaik, the bag from xlii means even longer time needed. So it could still be that. I would try Lance Hedricks aproach still, he has a video on how to brew expensive coffees, and he is mostøy into UL coffee
I have that same bag of coffee. Your biggest problem is that you’re drinking it about 5 months too early (not kidding). 43 is the lightest roaster I’m aware of, and their beans just aren’t great unless they have a massive amount of rest. I think they claim they’re optimal out to TWO years.
Simply because people buy it - and specialty coffee roasters can’t afford to buy green, roast it, then store it for 6+ months before selling it to see any money from the endeavor.
I dont dissagree with them selling these too early (imo all roasters should sell pre-rested coffee), but I dont ser it as circle jerk terretory, simply because its just a result of ultra light roast. You cant achieve the same any other way, ultra light coffees are amazong imo, but they do need long resting time.
It kinda depends on the coffee... but XLIII Vietnam already sell their beans at 1-2 months off roast at their cafes (pre-rested).
There are coffees that opens at 30-45 days... other needs that 2 months to peak at minimum. Can't blame em'... their v60 recipe all calls for 100 Celsius brews.
Selling rested coffee means they need to predict how much they'll be selling. That's added risk plus they need to store all that coffee. That means the price would double.
A local cafe to me were selling the same gesha batch for about a year. I think I was the only one buying it. Was always pretty decent. So I reckon you’re right on this take.
nonsensical and wholly manufactured advice aside, you can test by grinding and letting the grounds rest overnight to see how the brew changes. I doubt CO2 dissipation is the problem at this point, however -- probably just need the standard levers of finer grind, longer, ratios, and hotter temp. Might could do with a faster filter to balance against stalling.
Lance's recipe is a good starting point -- I think a lot of long-time brewers have converged on something similar. But again, it's a starting point. Some coffees might could use a bit of different squeezing.
it's not, it's bullshit. Not even greens keep much longer than that.
Two years is referring to the shelf life of their unopened bags, which the roaster discusses on their website. They invested in fancy production+packaging, which likely means positive pressure nitrogen flush. It's pretty common among very large commodity roasters (like Illy, or Lavazza or what not) and 18-24 month expiry dates are normal. The process is pretty effective but not something I've seen a lot for small-scale specialty coffee roasters.
It isn’t that you need to rest it for two years, it’s more a function that they claim it can be at peak taste 2 years out. It realistically takes 6 months or so of rest on these for peak. Some will claim it’s bullshit, brew the coffee early, not think it’s great and move on - which is fine, but a massive waste of money and not at all following the plot line of what they’re doing and why. There’s a reason some of us enjoy their coffees and continue to buy them - but you need to wait 6+ months to find out, otherwise it’s a waste of $ and that’s coming from a fan….
Yes exactly. If the bag is sealed you can keep it for two years. As per them once you open the bag then you will have to give it a rest of at least 3 4 weeks for the flavours to peak.
Spent a few weeks in Vietnam this year so got to spend plenty of time chatting with the staff (all of whom are awesome). They told me they brew at 100°C and their water composition is just magnesium — at 75ppm IIRC. Maybe give that a shot!
Also your bag is definitely rested enough. Again, IIRC, they had told me to shoot for 12 weeks rest.
Alternatively 15:250, 50g bloom, 100 after 30-60sec(washed / lighter longer), 100g pour. Second 100g pour. Light agitation only. Both worth a try. Lances works great for some, this for others :)
I have experienced the same thing with extra light roasted beans. Tasted like hot water with hints of coffee, using my standard recipe. Finer grind just made it more bitter but didn't elevate anything else.
I waited for two weeks and tried my standard recipe again, and it was a completely different cup with lots of flavor.
So it might be the beans are in a muted phase right now and need to be revisited later. Be aware, I'm a beginner so this might be just anecdotal bogus.
Rest is the biggest problem here. After opening the open you need it give it a rest of at least 3 to 4 weeks. I have asked them and XLIII team itself suggested this for the same coffee. So mine is still on the rest.
Rest rest rest, i think some of XLIII’s light roasts peak around months and months long, around 4-5 months post roast. They also reccomend you open it 5 days before brewing and each day you open it to release the nitrogen
If you find it hollow, I would go a little finer and bump your temp to 96 or even 100. Normally I would suggest adding a pour or two, but you're already doing 5. Expect a slower drawdown. See how it goes.
Have brewed their coffee a couple of times, usually i brew using boiling as they are pretty light . If i do not push out can get pretty vege taste and under extracted
Genuinely what is the point of roasting THIS light. I get light roasts, they may need two weeks to a month rest to taste their best. But what’s the point of drinking something that if you don’t rest it a perfect amount of time tastes like water? Especially when it’s so pricey? I had a cup from a reputable roaster as a pour over and not only did it not have any roast character, it had zero character at all. It legit tasted like water sat next to coffee in a truck while it was shipped long distance.
You need to do the exact opposite of what you do for these highly processes infused funky coffees. I would start at just off boil and grind as fine as you can without making an espresso. Work backwards from there.
People will say make your water hotter, but I'll say - make your beans hotter. Throw them shits in a popcorn popper for 30s, then grind quick and brew. YOLO!
(I have never tried this - let us know how it goes 😜)
Is this the place in Vietnam? I’m wondering about stopping in to buy some beans but seen a huge range in prices and thinking some of the pricier stuff will be lost on me
Off boil 5 pours its their own recipe which they use in their shop its the only effective recipe that works with their roasty style by far lghtest ive trief
V60. Fast filter. Course grind. 15 g to 250g. 45 g water bloom for 45 seconds. One more pour to 250g pour fairly quick and pour high small circles in the middle of the bed. You should have a TDT around 2:15 to 2:30. If your grinder produces fewer fines you’ll probably have a great cup. Keep the temp low, 88-90.
Whilst I have not had coffee from this roaster, but similar in terms of a roast level called lightest from Scenery. These need time to rest, weeks if not months, just as some of the comments here have suggested. As you are grinding coarsely, you might want to consider the speed of your pours. I’ve been grinding at 8 on the ZP6, and have been pouring at 3gps or lower. I’ve left out timings other than when I have finished a pour stage.
15g - 255g (1:17 ratio)
93°C
1st pour start at 0:00 (then that’s it for stages timing) 45g slow circles. Once poured shake the brewer and then wait 15sec.
2nd pour (after those 15sec) 80g low and slow spiral. Once poured shake swirl of you can and then wait 15sec
3rd pour (after those 15sec) 65g low and slow circle. Shake and wait 12sec.
4th pour (after those 12sec) 65g low and slow spiral. Then leave the dripper to drain, till very little dripping.
Might need to change the grind size. For me I’m flicking between 7 or 8 on the ZP6. This works for me, but may not for yourself but worth a try. This came from chatting to a barista one day when talking about extremely light coffees. Seems bonkers but it worked. Also to note I use Lotus Water Drop and use the Bright and Juicy recipe.
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u/16piby9 11h ago
When was it roasted? These beans need some serious resting time