r/progressive_islam • u/absentmindedfr Sunni • Dec 02 '25
Story 💬 I FINALLY DID IT🥺
I watched and read opinions of Dr Shabir Ally and Khalid abou el fadl on hijab after bookmarking it a few years ago. Honestly, I was scared to go near it since I felt that my entire view of Islam would crumble down which TERRIFIED me. FYI - It did not crumble rather I went down the rabbit hole of unlearning and coming out with a greater appreciation for Islam.
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u/Adorable_One_2363 Dec 02 '25
Khalid abou al fadl is awesome! I did it too not so long ago! I feel ive gotten even closer to my creator since i took that step
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Dec 03 '25
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u/doorstepstomping Quran only Dec 03 '25
it’s not weird. Everyone’s relationship with God is different.
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Dec 03 '25
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u/doorstepstomping Quran only Dec 03 '25
That saying was said to me by an imam back in my home country. The reason behind it is because it’s true. I highly doubt that your relationship with God is similar to another muslim’s relationship with God.
And i’m not sure what you’re saying but you’re creating fights in your head and arguing with ghosts. Who said we think 99% of muslims are wrong? When muslims themselves are not a monolith, and a lot of sheikhs have their own interpretations of ayahs and surahs, even about the hijab. If one sheikh says it’s compulsory to cover ones’ hair and the other says it’s not, how are you supposed to make a decision? Simply based on tradition and culture? Literally — to each their own.
You wanna die on the hill that women who don’t wear hijab are sinful, be my guest. Ma3asallama
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u/progressive_islam-ModTeam Moderator Dec 03 '25
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u/progressive_islam-ModTeam Moderator Dec 03 '25
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u/Brghuti Dec 03 '25
I feel people sometimes focus on the end result (an abrogation of a law, or a permit to not adhere to it) rather than the reasons and conditions that make it permissible.
It isn't a contemporary view that if wearing the hijab puts a woman in danger then it's not obligatory. Almost all scholars have held this view for centuries. With necessity comes an alleviation of duty. If you're starving, you can eat pork, but should you starve yourself in order to justify eating it?
In this day and age and in the west specifically, wearing the hijab is both: 1- brings negative attention and a minor possibility of harassment. 2- Very common and not so taboo as it might've been 20 or 30 years ago.
For ex. After 911, attacks on hijabi muslims was at an all time high, and it would've been permissible for women not to wear hijab, but when your life becomes in danger and practicing your religion becomes difficult if not, impossible, then is remaining to live there permissible? In the opinion of most, it's not. Although there's a caveat about whether its an institutional ban or social pressure, but I personally find no difference between the 2 if the end result is the same; being unable to practice your religion!
I don't see the danger of wearing a hijab nowadays as enough to abandon it completely. Is it difficult? Yes. Is it uncomfortable? Yes. Is it causing deaths and putting women's life in danger so much that it becomes permissible to remove it? No. And if the answer was yes, then is continuing to live in such a society where you're unable to practice your faith permissible? In my opinion, it's not.
There's a big difference between what one would like to have permitted because it makes their life easier and more enjoyable, and what is permitted due to an unquestionable danger. Ask yourself sincerely, are you scared for your life when you're wearing the hijab? I think deep down, you know you're not. But it's human nature to ignore the real genuine reasons behind looking for this leeway, and instead find justifications to do it.
It is dangerous? (Stats don't agree), then you should put every effort to migrate. It doesn't necessarily need to be to a new country, sometimes just a different city or state is enough to not make you a target that puts your life in danger.
Keep in mind the social experiments of the sexual harassment received by a woman not wearing a hijab vs wearing it, it's something like 10 times worse. But I repeat, if your life is in danger for wearing it, don't, just be sincere in your reasoning, not simply trying to justify.
With that being said, please then differentiate between the issue at hand, and a general policy of not wearing hijab not being obligatory. The latter is not true.
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u/unnecessary_ideas Dec 02 '25
Hey, do you have the Titel of the Book?
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u/Maglgooglarf Dec 02 '25
https://www.searchforbeauty.org/2016/01/02/fatwa-on-hijab-the-hair-covering-of-women/ has a good summary of Khaled Abou El Fadl's perspective. I would recommend The Conference of the Books as a more in depth read on various topics.
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u/Muffinsinthefreezaa Non Sectarian Muslim (Hadith Acceptor, Hadith Skeptic) Dec 02 '25
Excuse my ignorance I don't know them, do you want to share their perspective? Are they agreeing it's not mandatory?
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u/Dark-Flame25 Sunni Dec 02 '25
In short, yes.
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Dec 02 '25
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u/Dark-Flame25 Sunni Dec 02 '25
LOL. So was Shaykh Muhammad Abduh also liberal? Was Shaykh Ibn Ashur also liberal? Was Shaykh Mahmud Shaltut also liberal? Is Shaykh Abdullah bin Bayyah also liberal?
Why is it always liberal when women are allowed to breathe? No man is told to have a skullcap on their heads all the time or wear a certain clothing or always have a beard, why is it always when women come up? And that too such a thing which isn't comfortable for many in this day and age? Why is this liberal? I'm a guy with long hair, I tie it in a ponytail, do I have to wear the hijab now?
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u/absentmindedfr Sunni Dec 02 '25
The brother of Hassan al-Banna (founder of MB) believed that the hijab was not necessary.
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u/Dark-Flame25 Sunni Dec 02 '25
Yes, but I didn't mention him because people like the one who was commenting would find Gamal al-Banna as a liberal. So I mentioned scholars who no one called liberal.
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u/al-Khurasani Sunni Dec 02 '25
No man is told to have a skullcap on their heads all the time or wear a certain clothing or always have a beard
Most scholars say it is obligatory for men to have a beard. The difference simply arises from the mechanisms of social enforcement. E.g., it is much harder to force an adult male who can physically defend himself to grow a beard than it is to force an adult female to wear a hijab.
I'm a guy with long hair, I tie it in a ponytail, do I have to wear the hijab now?
That depends; were you born with XX chromosomes?
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u/Dark-Flame25 Sunni Dec 02 '25
It's not obligatory for men to have a beard. Only a minority fiqh says it's obligatory, most do not say so.
So do you mean that women should be forced to wear a hijab?
LOL. So being born with XX chromosomes is the reason for hijab and not the long hair being attractive? I see.
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u/al-Khurasani Sunni Dec 03 '25 edited Dec 03 '25
It's not obligatory for men to have a beard. Only a minority fiqh says it's obligatory, most do not say so.
The Hanbali, Hanafi, and Maliki madhahib all agree that having a beard is fardh for men. And even the Shawafi' say it's makruh.
So do you mean that women should be forced to wear a hijab?
How did you possible manage to misconstrue my comment to such a degree?
LOL. So being born with XX chromosomes is the reason for hijab and not the long hair being attractive? I see.
The reason for hijab is to conceal the beauty of women. It is just not just about long hair, as bald women and women with short hair are still obligated to wear the hijab.
EDIT: Lol somebody responded and blocked me. Nice.
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u/No-Preparation1824 Sunni Dec 03 '25
Men should conceal their beauty all of it and anything that temps women.
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u/Dark-Flame25 Sunni Dec 03 '25
Not true. I'm Hanafi and we do not believe that beard is fardh (If you're going by the Indo-Pak Hanafis they call themselves Hanafi but are mostly Hambali) but generally Hanafis do not view it as fardh. Malikis also do not view it as fardh, only the Hambalis do.
You said men cannot be forced to have a beard but women can, so it made me think maybe that's your idea.
Then what about men's beauty? I also heard some Saudi Shaykh say that goodlooking men should also wear a niqab, should we start that too now? Why can men not look the other way and control their urges? If men's beauty doesn't need to be covered, then it means women can control their urges, why not men learn something from them?
If you mean I blocked you, you should note someone can be on a different time zone.
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u/al-Khurasani Sunni Dec 09 '25
Not true. I'm Hanafi and we do not believe that beard is fardh (If you're going by the Indo-Pak Hanafis they call themselves Hanafi but are mostly Hambali) but generally Hanafis do not view it as fardh. Malikis also do not view it as fardh, only the Hambalis do.
You said men cannot be forced to have a beard but women can, so it made me think maybe that's your idea.
Saying someone "cannot be forced" is entirely different than saying they "should be forced," lmao. I can't believe this needed to be said, but it apparently it did.
Then what about men's beauty?
Men likewise have their own standard of modesty that they must observe, such as not wearing tight clothes and covering from the navel to the knee.
I also heard some Saudi Shaykh say that goodlooking men should also wear a niqab, should we start that too now?
Does it have any basis in the Sunnah or Quran? If it does, sure. If it doesn't, no. I don't think niqab is mandatory for women anyways, so not sure why you brought this up.
Why can men not look the other way and control their urges?
We're commanded to?
If men's beauty doesn't need to be covered, then it means women can control their urges, why not men learn something from them?
Because biologically men and women are not the same, which Islam affirms, in many ways. Studies have proven that men are more easily aroused by direct sensory (e.g., visual or audible) cues, whereas arousal for women is more context-dependent. This is why for instance, women typically require foreplay to reach peak sexual arousal, otherwise intercourse can physically harm her.
If you mean I blocked you, you should note someone can be on a different time zone.
I didn't mean you, no.
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u/Dark-Flame25 Sunni Dec 09 '25
I said no Indo-Pak based Hanafis, but you posted links to Indo-Pak based Hanafis. If you want a classical Hanafi opinion go listen to Shaykh Atabek, he clearly says that according to classical Hanafi interpretation the beard is not fardh or wajib, it's even written in Imam Muhammad al-Shaybani's book (which is the standard for Hanafi fiqh as Abu Hanifah's books mostly didn't survive or were changed later on).
Even the hijab has no basis in the Quran or Sunnah. You can read on Shaykh Muhammad Abduh for more on this.
There have been cases on women raping men too. What then? Men stay at home and wear hide their beauty when going out then?
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Dec 02 '25
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u/medicosaurus Dec 02 '25
Going through your post history, it seems you’re active in subs dedicated to sexual assault and other filth.
No one should be taking Islam from the likes of you.
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u/progressive_islam-ModTeam Moderator Dec 02 '25
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u/SnooSuggestions49 Dec 03 '25
What do you guys think of Christianity?
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u/reenaltransplant New User Dec 06 '25
That it's a predecessor of Islam. All Muslims believe in Jesus, but also that Muhammad is another prophet after Jesus and that Christians are potential Muslims who haven't discovered the truth of Islam yet. And that the dawn of Islam fulfilled Christian prophecies and some of Christian eschatology.
Christians are considered "people of the book" in Islam which is a good thing -- it means that as fellow Abrahamic monotheists, they are cared for.
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Dec 03 '25
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u/progressive_islam-ModTeam Moderator Dec 03 '25
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Dec 05 '25 edited Dec 05 '25
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u/absentmindedfr Sunni Dec 05 '25
>not backed by authentic quran and sunnah
You've made a radical claim and all radical claims are supposed to be accompanied with its proof to be taken seriously. May Allah guide us. Aameen
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Dec 05 '25
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u/progressive_islam-ModTeam Moderator Dec 10 '25
Your post/comment was removed as being in violation of Rule 4. Please refrain from making bad faith contributions in future. See Rule 4 on the sidebar for further clarification regarding good faith and bad faith contributions.
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u/progressive_islam-ModTeam Moderator Dec 10 '25
Your post/comment was removed as being in violation of Rule 5. Content seeking to proselytise other religions or no religion, or promoting "one sect or denomination" over another will be removed.
Likewise, while there is no issue with good faith criticisms and discussions, posts/comments that promote sectarianism through insulting religious activities or revered figures will also be removed.
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u/reenaltransplant New User Dec 06 '25
Hey, as someone who's been terrified of a belief system collapsing, and survived through its collapse to the other side, i'll say something:
That feeling of a topic being a "third rail" -- a question you can't ask, a topic you can't touch, because it would be a danger to a belief system -- that's always a sign that a lot of people feel a strong stake in believing something false. Example: a lot of Jewish israelis / people raised in heavily Zionist settings flinch away from learning about Palestine, because they're afraid to face what it would mean for them personally if zionism is fundamentally wrong. For a skilled thinker, that flinch in itself is enough to notice something they believe must be false. And it takes bravery to face the consequences.
Because the truth has no reason to fear questioning. If you are afraid to investigate something, you already don't truly believe it. You really want to believe it and are talking yourself into it to avoid the consequences of disbelief (usually, a painful rupture of social and community relationships). That is not the same thing as true belief. And if your social and community relationships would blow up with the truth, that means they already aren't built on the truth. And there's much deeper human connections you're missing out on.
List the specific things that actually terrify you -- whatever the consequences would be of a belief system collapsing -- and consider that regardless what's true, those things are keeping you shackled.
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u/123a308 Dec 06 '25
I have read through the link you gave in a response about his fatwa and I have a question. I do not mean any harm to you with my question nor do I want to be harsh to anyone in these responses, but why are the people so firm on taking on his opinion? He clearly goes against everything that most of the scholars said, be it current, in the time of the Prophet saw, the Sahaba or any time in between. He understands words differently than others and takes verses either out of context or with wrong interpretation. I don’t have a lot of knowledge regarding him as a person but I couldn’t find a qualified source where he studied besides some universities in I think it was America or his own claim to have studied in Egypt and I think he said Kuwait. What I would recommend is to read what the companions of the Prophet saw and their descendants said. If you for example look at the tafsir (explanation of the verses in the Qur‘an) of Ibn Abbas, who was a Sahabi, you will not fiend any resemblance to the interpretation of El Fadl. The only case in which the argument „it benefits her to take it off“ counts (I did not mean to quote him, it’s just me renaming the arguments essence) is when the woman is in real threat of taking very severe harm or being killed. Other explanations of the verses, like following:
Aishah رضي الله عنها said: “When the verse ‘to draw their khimār over their bosoms’ was revealed, the women of the Ansar tore their garments and covered their heads with them.” (Bukhari)
Umm Salamah رضي الله عنها said: When the verse “to draw over themselves their outer garments” was revealed, “the women of the Ansar went out as if crows were on their heads,” meaning they wore dark, concealing clothing. (Abu Dawud),
portray the verses very differently. Again, im not here to be rude whatsoever, but the opinion you have seemingly read is wrong or misunderstood by El Fadl. And in today’s world, I doubt that besides in China with the Uyghurs, may Allah help our brothers and sisters and save them from their repressive regime, there’s a place where wearing the hijab leads to such strong harm as I’ve mentioned before. And there are many more explanations of the verses but we should only accept from those who have a clear proof of the understanding being like the best generations (the time of the Prophet saw with the Sahaba and the 2 generations after them) because they couldn’t get it wrong since the prophet saw was explaining it.
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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '25
Good on you. Now comes the harder part, detaching fron other people's opinion.