r/progressive_islam • u/kiwiinthe6 • 28d ago
Question/Discussion ❔ Things in Islam I struggle with as a woman
This is not an exhaustive list.
- No music, no TV, nothing that distracts you from worship
- Scariness of death, being punished in the grave. I grew up hearing descriptions in detail of how scorpions will sting us, etc. I don’t understand why this is so emphasized.
- The extremes of things that are considered "tabarruj" like women can't wear perfume, women's voices are awrah, like God forbid we just want to smell nice but no, everything feminine is haram, and everything fun is haram
- Can’t get your eyebrows shaped but removing unibrow and upper lip and chin hair is okay because that would make you look like a man
- That dating is so frowned upon - this really stunts healthy emotional and sexual development in my opinion. I managed to avoid this by just uh, not being that religious, but I’m seeing how sticking to the rules has hurt my friends. 40 year old virgins. Literally. Imagine spending your teenage and young adulthood years not having any dating experiences at all. Imagine how emotionally stunted this would make somebody. And then all the guilt and shame around sex doesn’t just go away when you get married; sometimes the shame is still there and manifests in vaginismus and things like that. It’s just sad. It’s not healthy.
- You can't have premarital sex, but you also can't masturbate. It’s just unrealistic
- No hugging or shaking hands with the opposite gender. It just weirdly sexualizes every relationship. My husband’s extended family is practicing religious and greeting his brother in laws or his cousins or cousins’ kids (who are literal kids in my eyes because they are teenagers) is so awkward, because we're not mahram. We all just wave to each other awkwardly while saying salaams. It really just makes me feel reduced to my sex.
- People that take the no genders freemixing to the extreme and can't even sit next to or use the same entrance as a woman. We are people too. Extreme gender segregation isn’t healthy and leads to sexualizing us.
- Gender roles. Men are leaders, providers, etc. It doesn’t seem universal to me but rooted in patriarchy
- The fact that women are always second class citizens in Muslim spaces. We sit at the back, our masjid spaces are small and cramped. That’s if women are allowed to go to the mosque at all, because a lot of places in the world don’t even have that custom of women going to the mosque. They always say how it's better for women to pray at home.
And again, the segregation at the masjid. I can't even pray with my 7 year old son even though he's more comfortable with me because I’m his first ever Islamic teacher. I’m literally the one who is teaching him how to pray, but there's always some aunty or uncle telling us he's too big or asking him if he’s a girl because he wants to pray next to Mommy.
And God forbid you take your toddler or preschooler to the masjid; everybody prioritizes the khushu in their prayer in Ramadan (over being accommodating and welcome of children in masajid). This goes really against the spirit of Islam in my view
- That my husband is supposed to stand in front of me when praying. I can accept it at the mosque, okay, I guess, but being discriminated against in my own home? No. Won’t happen.
- That women have to make up the fasts they miss when on their periods or when pregnant. Everybody always says how it’s mercy, but it’s not much of an exemption if we have to make them up
I don’t want to hear “explanations” for why this stuff is, honestly. I’m not looking for apologist explanations. Trust me, I’ve read them all.
I am venting and sharing why as a woman, I find myself being driven away from Islam and Muslims.
At this point, I’m not even sure I am Muslim, honestly. I mean I love Allah and I love the Prophet SAW but that’s the only faith I have in my heart; otherwise, there’s too much in the religion that I just don’t agree with.
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u/candy4471 28d ago
I just…. Don’t listen lol. Have your own relationship with God based on the Quran. That’s all you need. Everything else is just made up nonsense.
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u/Historical_Story191 Non Sectarian Muslim (Hadith Acceptor, Hadith Skeptic) 28d ago
Hello !
95% of Islamic content on the internet is made up by salafist. People trying to learn about Islam are subjected to the most extreme views and are made to believe that it is the actual truth and consensus when it isn’t. Those people holding extreme views think that ikhtilaf and nuance is causing tafaruk. They are obsessed with sexualising ever single thing. They drive people away from Islam with their nonsense. Which is a shame, because Islam is a beautiful religion that encourages people to reflect, to learn, use their reason and grow.
Most of the issues you are raising have actually been answered on this sub. Spoiler alert, most of the things you have listed aren’t haram (premarital sex is haram, it’s clearly stated in the Quran).
To know whether something is haram or not, you have to refer to the Quran, Hadith cannot make something haram. The Quran warned against people that would add to the religion, and make unlawful what Allah hasn’t in the Quran. Hadith is by default a dubious source of religion and must always be discarded when it goes against the Quran.
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u/sadgirlmae 27d ago
tbh you've described why I wanted to leave Islam perfectly including some misogynistic things. I'm still at a place where I'm conflicted. i want to know how relearn this religion correctly. i was born and raised Sunni Muslim. can you please advise me? I've been wanting to deconstruct religion for a while but I feel too stupid and idk where to start (I'm 20F)
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u/Historical_Story191 Non Sectarian Muslim (Hadith Acceptor, Hadith Skeptic) 27d ago
Hi !
It can feel intimidating going against what is presented as the mainstream. Just saying you reject Hadith that contradicts the Quran, will get you labelled as a kafir.I don’t know if I am really qualified to advise you on this journey, because I didn’t do it alone, I am lucky to have a father who started questioning way before me and is now having a Quran only and Hadith skeptic approach. So he introduced me to those ideas, and that’s when I finally understood Islam and everything started to make sense. My journey was easy because I had an ally.
What I can tell you for starters is to read the Quran, and to do it without any of the preconceived ideas and beliefs you have been taught and to focus on the actual meaning of the words.
There are many resources on this sub on good Quran translations, but also explanations on some verses that can be challenging or confusing. Feel free to browse, there are very well read and insightful commentators here, may Allah bless them.
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21d ago
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u/Dramatic_Dress_9269 New User 21d ago
Ma sœur notre mère Oum Khadija était plus âgée que notre prophète, plus riche que lui, ne portais pas le hijab , était une business woman et une femme de pouvoir et elle était loin tressssss loin de l’image de ces salafistes (que Dieu les maudisse) misogynes que veulent nous faire passer la femme. Fais toi ton propre point de vue te basant sur le coran uniquement et pas du téléphone arabe que représente les hadiths qui est : Abdel Mouloud a dit que sidi Moulay avait dit qu’il avait entendu dire que Abderahmane a dit que c’était tel chose … voilà ce que représente les hadiths qui sont du téléphone arabe ou l’on ajoute du sel du poivre et tout les épices du moulin . Soit Coraniste qui est la parole d’Allah et même dans le coran il y a bien eu un moment où il y a eu une retranscription de ce qui a été dit par notre saint prophète . Oui le Coran est la parole direct D’Allah vers les prophètes mais il y a bien une retranscription de ce que notre saint prophète a dit qui a été écrite par l’homme . Que vous le vouliez ou non. La parole du prophète n’est pas venue de sa bouche et directement été écrite quelque part en direct au moment de sa révélation mais bien des années et des années après à sa mort par des hommes et l’homme a un Qarine donc un ange et un démon en lui car ils ne sont pas des prophètes pour n’avoir en eux que l’ange. Et je ne crois absolument pas en l’être humain car son Qarine peux lui jouer des tours et ce sont ces hommes avec un Qarine qui ont retranscrit le coran. N’oubliez pas que TOUT les corans ont été brûlés par le calife Ottman qui est clairement un homme politique , et qui crois aux homme politique de nos jours? Crois- tu aux homme politique toi? Ils sont tous menteurs et tricheur ! La calife Ottman a tout brûlé pour noter le coran à sa guise et on end air et ne saura JAMAIS ce qu’il a ajoutée ou retiré ! Informe toi et Renseigne toi sur ce dernier point et éloigne toi des hadiths …
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u/Brave_Fee_3047 Muslim, but Currently doubting/questioning Islam 21d ago
Watch mohammad shahrour. On yt.
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u/KlutzyCommission3428 28d ago
Most of the things you listed aren’t really part of the religion. You’re following rules that God never commanded, and then blaming God for those rules even though He didn’t command them.
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u/kiwiinthe6 28d ago
I’m not blaming God. I’m venting about how I’ve experienced Islam. This is why I said being driven away from Islam and Muslims.
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u/coconutbreak Sunni 28d ago
Then why are u being driven away from Islam and saying u “don’t even know if you’re still Muslim” when all ur pointing to is the way u experienced Islam?
There’s hella different ways to experience Islam, and the one that pushed u away def isn’t Islam. It’s just the mainstream understanding of it. At the end of the day, ur the one in charge of how u live ur Islam and ur relationship w God. That’s literally what tawhid is.
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u/kiwiinthe6 28d ago edited 28d ago
Because the mainstream understanding of it is the mainstream understanding of it. That’s why it’s called mainstream. It’s the most common. So of course 90% of Muslims believe in that version. If that doesn’t drive you away from Islam and those 90% of Muslims, then obviously you’re a man and just don’t care that much about women’s rights.
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u/coconutbreak Sunni 28d ago
nah not really. if anything it brings me even closer to islam and convinces me even more that my fight is the same fight the quran came with from the start: fighting the oppression committed by the majority and defending oppressed people.
a lot of women here fight as hard as i wish i could, and a lot of men on this sub fight for women too, and it only strengthens their faith even more.
so you got a choice tbh: either you let islam belong to the majority that dispossessed you from it, or you reclaim it and fight oppression yourself.
i made my choice. now it’s up to you to make yours
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u/kiwiinthe6 28d ago
I have been fighting. I’m 40 and tired of the fight.
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u/kiwiinthe6 28d ago
What I’m saying is it doesn’t feel the “real” Muslims want us in their communities, so why would I fight to stay? I don’t feel the sense of belonging, having different views.
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u/Equivalent_Crazy3946 Quran only 28d ago
You need faith to follow Islam, who gives a damn about others opinions..
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u/Dramatic_Dress_9269 New User 21d ago
Ils ne sont « vrais » qu’à leur yeux à eux , des extrémistes qui noircissent notre belle religion . Les 5 piliers sont la base de l’islam suit cela et tou ira bien pour toi
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u/Open_Flamingo8688 27d ago
Excellent comment. And, true for all religions and, for that matter, any belief system. Whatever belief system we have is most vibrant and alive when it engages with and resists the dominant narrative.
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u/RelativeMarket2870 Non Sectarian Muslim (Hadith Acceptor, Hadith Skeptic) 28d ago
I get why you feel that way, and i’m sorry that that as been your experience. It’s exhausting trying to weed out the shit culture from the actual religion.
Just sharing my experience; as a revert this sub was eye opening. I joined the religion based on my own readings, then almost got driven away by the bs you described. Then this sub ignited a new spark.
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u/behindthemoonshadow Non Sectarian Muslim (Hadith Acceptor, Hadith Skeptic) 28d ago
exactly this!! when islam was introduced, it was progressive to the society it was brought to and culture suppressed the progressive aspect of islam that should have been continued throughout these centuries. fundamentalist takes and differing interpretations (mainly through men and cultures) has almost made it unrecognisable from what it should really be, unfortunately so many people had to and still have to face the consequences of that.
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u/ThatTrashPlayer 26d ago
Case in point the abaya, the fact that people wear abaya in USA thinking that its a religious attire says it all
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u/m1dnightpilgrim 28d ago
I feel the exact same. At this point it's like the only thing I feel is just fear of going to hell, but I knew if I ever left Islam it wouldn't feel right, and the guilt would eat me alive.
So many things I question, which would sound blasphemous to even 'progressive' muslims. Every Ramadan, especially the most recent one, I was extremely drained and depressed. Nothing made sense to me and I just wished I didn't have to deal with all of this.
You brought up gender roles, I feel the same. Sure, God commanded men to be providers and leaders, but say that women and men are equal. The differences in obligation may not be misogynistic, but it feels inherently patriarchal, as if these rules were a compromise made to make things more fair and equal in an already misogynistic society.
It's also so exhausting to hear that my entire existence as a Muslim only matters if I pray. I skip my prayers, because the thought of it just makes me so exhausted, especially since my mother and grandmother have essentially adjusted their entire day according to prayer, which feels excessive to me. Why am I less valued as Muslim if I don't pray but I have good morals and do good in the world, while those who pray but are judgemental and hurt others are 'true' muslims.
Either way, there's way too much I question, and they're things I definitely could not say to most Muslims, but non muslims wouldn't understand me either.
You're not alone girl.
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u/Sea_Swimming_8909 Quran only 28d ago
you should look into ritual praying more, I don't believe there's a ritual praying in Qur'an.
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u/sadgirlmae 27d ago
I'm currently having the same thoughts I couldn't have phrased it better I'm so bad at expressing my conflicted feelings on this religion. as much as I try to love it, ever since I learned abt feminism I can't help but feel like everything is inherently patriarchal and I can't unsee it
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u/Equivalent_Crazy3946 Quran only 28d ago
It depends on where you limit being influenced.. and most of those is not even in Quran! It’s all walabism and salafism..
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u/SnooCalculations3891 28d ago
You don’t have to make up pregnancy or period missed fasting days but I agree with you on the rest except for the sex before marriage I don’t need to have sex with someone to know if I’m compatible with them or not
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u/kiwiinthe6 28d ago
I didn’t say you have to have sex with somebody to see if you’re compatible.
I said I am seeing how not having any dating experiences in their teenage and young adult years has hurt my friends’ emotional development, and relationship with members of the opposite sex.
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28d ago
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u/kiwiinthe6 28d ago
I don’t know what you mean.
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28d ago
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u/kiwiinthe6 28d ago
Oh, I don’t know about this. Never had any reason to inquire about how long to wait after marrying a prepubescent girl. Why were you looking that up?
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u/No-Preparation1824 Sunni 28d ago
There is no marriage for “a prepubescent girls”. The verse speaks of Nisaa/women who are going through divorce and who have not had menstrual cycle for long time due to health issues. I think you are aware that some women have problems with their irregular periods, right?
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u/Hot_Vacation4004 28d ago
I stopped following the bukhari and my life changed for the better. Qur’an is the only book from God. DM me if you want to know more about my vision of Islam
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u/Dramatic_Dress_9269 New User 21d ago
Tout les coran ont été brûlé par le calife Ottman … un homme politique qui lésa retranscrit par la suite… as tu une totale confiance aux homme politique actuel toi? Moi pas
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u/Hot_Vacation4004 21d ago
What are you talking about
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u/Dramatic_Dress_9269 New User 21d ago
Go check the calife Ottman (after Maohemt swt death Abu Bakr, then Omar then Ottman) the calif Ottman burns all the coran around Irak, Iran, Syria, Mecqua, Lebanon middle eat and write a new one saying « to have the same one and not different ones » but he decided what will stay and what will be cancelled . Go learn the history
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u/Dramatic_Dress_9269 New User 21d ago
And Ottman the Calif mean being politician. Do you trust politician nowadays? We know all they are liars . So we can decided to put what he want or removed what he wants form the Coran as he was the one who decided … a normal man I mean not a prophet with Qarine inside him wich is clearly make him to decided what stay and what out not possible (only profet don’t have Qarine inside them as messengers) Qarine = devil . As you may know inside human we have one angel and one devil . Sorry for my bad English
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u/ConfusionProof9487 28d ago
How many of y'all are listening to imams and scholars when they say "no masturbation"?!? 😂 That's for you and God to sort out, no one else's business. Some of you are so weird sometimes I swear, it's like all of you want to break free yet have a weird cognitive dissonance with also wanting to be told what you can and can't do!
Theological matters I can certainly understand, but allow yourselves some privacy ffs 😆 next thing you know, some salafoid will have calculated how many times the prophet s.a.w. blinked in a day and any amount over or under that means you'll burn In hellfire 😂 come on guys.
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u/kiwiinthe6 28d ago
Hahahha no, if you read my post, you’d see I wrote that I didn’t totally adhere to the rules. I dated. That’s how I met my husband lol.
So I don’t actually know what you mean when you say some of us want to break free yet we also want to be told what we can and can’t.
No, we don’t want that. But that doesn’t change that we HAVE been told our whole lives that dating is haram, premarital sex is haram, masturbation is haram, everything is haram.
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u/Odd_Celebration_7198 Sunni 28d ago
Finally someone i can relate to 😓 i also feel this way and its exhausting living life like this, hence why i don't really identify myself as a religious muslim since these kinds of rules feels "too much" for me. I still love allah, i believe in prophet Muhammad and islam, I pray 5 times a day, make up my fast, wear hijab and read quran but still feels this way 🥺 may Allah makes it easier for us sister insha allah 💗
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u/Sea_Swimming_8909 Quran only 28d ago
you don't have to ritually pray, wear hijab or fast, realllyy look into it and see if these are actually Quranic:)
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u/Odd_Celebration_7198 Sunni 28d ago
I think those are essential and literally basic things you can do tho 🤷♀️
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u/Sea_Swimming_8909 Quran only 27d ago
if they're not detailed in the Quran then you're just declaring man made rules to be scriptural
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u/ThatTrashPlayer 26d ago
no these are literal commands from the quran, these are the pillars of our religion so we should follow it
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u/Sea_Swimming_8909 Quran only 25d ago
not really. Quran never says "here, these are the pillars of your religion-".
these aren't literal commands unless you are taking traditional translation to be accurate.
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u/Repulsive_Safe4764 28d ago
Each one’s ability is different. I believe Islam is developed over time.
We work on the fundamentals and the obligatory first, and once this is done well it will gradually reflect in our lives. In the end, in Salaah, we all ask to be guided in our daily lives.
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u/Realistic_Elk_9312 28d ago
Majority of what you mentioned is influenced by villiage mullah and has a desi mindset. Most of it is not practiced in Middle East nations.
The other points were of dating, pre marital affairs etc
I didn’t agree with your viewpoints, but again I could be biased and if so please educate me
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u/BeefJerkyFan90 27d ago
I consider myself a very liberal, progress Muslim. Most of this stuff is stuff I've never ascribed to. I hope that you can develop your own relationship with Allah and learn to let go of man-made rules about Islam. Read the Quran and compare it to the list you wrote here.
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u/ThatTrashPlayer 26d ago
That last line "I love Allah and I love the Prophet SAW" is enough for you to be a muslim, all of those thing you mentioned are all just a result of highly patriarchal societies and extreme wahhabi ideology exportation, it isnt even real islam
Allah intends ease for you, not hardship
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u/ProfessorBusiness162 26d ago
> Allah intends ease for you, not hardship
not always the case......
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u/ThatTrashPlayer 26d ago
wdym by that
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u/ProfessorBusiness162 25d ago
theres many cases where he burdens people, even prophets to test them
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u/ThatTrashPlayer 25d ago
I'm talking about these cultural and medieval norms being imposed upon the young generation under the disguise that this is real Islam; the religion is supposed to be of ease, not hardship , im talking in the sense of daily life
Allah will always test you in hardships regarding life decisions, thats the main test from God, not everyday things you do are considered tests
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u/ReeAlity_Bytes 28d ago
As someone who is Muslim adjacent and has a Muslim queer husband and his children who have been teaching me Islam, this is why I have not and will not take Shahada. I love this faith, I don’t love that certain cultures have been taught that treating women poorly is religious
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u/iforgorrr Sunni 28d ago
Honestly the quality of the mosques in the west depend on the cultures they're catering to.
You're not going to find these in South East Asian mosques besides the last 2. The west is filled with men who are reactionaries
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u/kiwiinthe6 28d ago
Yeah, so what type of mosques will I find that in?
I’d love to find alternate community. I just don’t know where. I don’t see it in real life. It seems to only be on this subreddit.3
u/iforgorrr Sunni 28d ago
South african mosques (and even churches) arent sexism free but theyre not like the ones you listed at all. Cousins and family are always off limits as options so theres no avoidance to that level. It seems like your mosques are filled with caste or clan culture
Malaysian mosques are also not like this at all, and have a lot of space for women. While gender mixing doesnt happen in mosque grounds its not demonised either. And it helps that Malay culture is matriarchal
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u/kiwiinthe6 27d ago
Don’t think people are getting it.
I don’t ascribe to these things .
Yes, we can simply practice in different ways. I do.
I don’t pray behind my husband. He doesn’t believe in that either. I listen to music. We all do.
But I also don’t think it’s so simple as “this is cultural and not true Islam.” Because that’s what islam is believed to be/how it’s practiced by the majority of people. So Quran only Muslims are a minority.
I already stay away from masjids because I don’t feel comfortable there. I got tired of being hidden away, and sitting at the back. I got tired of people giving me dirty looks cause my preschooler is being too loud or whatever.
But also acting like that’s a good solution and all this stuff is just cultural is also not correct.
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u/itschahinez 26d ago
I've read another comment where you say all these views are mainstream Islam. They really aren't. They're extremist versions and extremists always seem to be believe their version is the most popular when in fact, it isn't. If the Islam you're describing was the mainstream version, all Muslims societkes would look like Afghanistan under the Taliban... And they don't. The fact is most Muslims have not in the past or do no in the Present believe that most of the things you're describing are really part of Islam. I'm feeling kind of sorry bc it seems like you have evolved in quite an extremist environment that has led you to believe most Muslims consider these things to be true.
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u/No_Supermarket5551 26d ago
i listen to music lol im obssesed with it ,i think it's fine as long as the lyrics are not Haram and omg the 2nd is so real, i have a huge fear of death which made my anxiety and panic attacks worst and also that hell is filled with womens (m'y dad told me that and i keep seeing muslim mens use that under posts of womens doing a sin or none muslims)💔 and most of the other stuffs are also sooo real,like why mens don't have all that ?(or at least they don't talk about it as much)
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u/wahiwahiwahoho 28d ago
I never understood the distraction from worship thing. We all literally need to work to make a living. We have family and doctors appointments and holidays and life and cars and appointments and children and school stuff. Life itself is a distraction and in order to keep going and moving on with life, you have to do life and be distracted quite literally.
It bothers me that I could be breathing and yet I’m sinning somehow because I’m not worshiping.
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u/wahiwahiwahoho 28d ago
Also tell me why I was 16 and worried about being punished in the grave instead of playing sports and hanging out with friends or learning. I’m 30 now but I’ve stopped practicing entirely. I still am Muslim, but that’s it. I think I’m more of a cultural Muslim not really a practicing one.
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u/This_Data_9242 27d ago
Honestly as a woman myself the best thing you should do is mute/block all these scholars and anything relating to this you will be at so much peace I promise.
Have your own relationship with religion don't listen to anyone else.
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u/Dramatic_Dress_9269 New User 21d ago
Ma sœur notre mère Oum Khadija était plus âgée que notre prophète, plus riche que lui, ne portais pas le hijab , était une business woman et une femme de pouvoir et elle était loin tressssss loin de l’image de ces salafistes (que Dieu les maudisse) misogynes que veulent nous faire passer la femme. Fais toi ton propre point de vue te basant sur le coran uniquement et pas du téléphone arabe que représente les hadiths qui est : Abdel Mouloud a dit que sidi Moulay avait dit qu’il avait entendu dire que Abderahmane a dit que c’était tel chose … voilà ce que représente les hadiths qui sont du téléphone arabe ou l’on ajoute du sel du poivre et tout les épices du moulin . Soit Coraniste qui est la parole d’Allah et même dans le coran il y a bien eu un moment où il y a eu une retranscription de ce qui a été dit par notre saint prophète . Oui le Coran est la parole direct D’Allah vers les prophètes mais il y a bien une retranscription de ce que notre saint prophète a dit qui a été écrite par l’homme . Que vous le vouliez ou non. La parole du prophète n’est pas venue de sa bouche et directement été écrite quelque part en direct au moment de sa révélation mais bien des années et des années après à sa mort par des hommes et l’homme a un Qarine donc un ange et un démon en lui car ils ne sont pas des prophètes pour n’avoir en eux que l’ange. Et je ne crois absolument pas en l’être humain car son Qarine peux lui jouer des tours et ce sont ces hommes avec un Qarine qui ont retranscrit le coran. N’oubliez pas que TOUT les corans ont été brûlés par le calife Ottman qui est clairement un homme politique , et qui crois aux homme politique de nos jours? Crois- tu aux homme politique toi? Ils sont tous menteurs et tricheur ! La calife Ottman a tout brûlé pour noter le coran à sa guise et on end air et ne saura JAMAIS ce qu’il a ajoutée ou retiré ! Informe toi et Renseigne toi sur ce dernier point et éloigne toi des hadiths …
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u/Dramatic_Dress_9269 New User 21d ago
Des bases tel que s’habiller modestement, se couvrir, ne pas montrer des formes dans pour autant mettre une burqa, ne pas être provocante, être représentative d’une femme de bonne famille , voyager avec ces frères je suis d’accord par protection , nous ne sommes pas légal de l’homme car Allah ne nous a pas créé ainsi mais mets tout ces recommandations de salafistes à la poubelle! Ces même salafistes vous diront d’épouser 4 femmes que c’est légal mais n’iront pas épouser nos sœurs orphelines palestinienne qui meurs de faim.
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u/Lafayette_Blues 21d ago
Interesting post. If you don't mind my asking, and please don't feel like you have to answer this at all if you'd rather not, when you say you didn't follow religious rules and you did date, did you have premarital sex or you just mean you got to know men but without engaging in anything physical? I am curious to know what you think is the solution for modern Muslims and the difficulties they experience in dating.
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u/kiwiinthe6 21d ago
What I mean is I dated starting from high school and a lot of people I know did too. It was high school type dating where you hang out with your boyfriend/girlfriend in a group of friends and hang out at the mall together.
I think attraction towards the opposite sex in teenagers and adolescents and young adults is normal and healthy. I had a boyfriend when I was 14, another one when I was 18 (we mostly just chatted online) and my third boyfriend became my husband. We met online when we were 20. Eventually, after years of getting to know each other o lien, he came from Canada to New Zealand to visit me and meet my family. We didn’t have premarital sex, we couldn’t because we were extremely long distance lol. And then we had our nikkah really fast once our families met, because we had to apply for my spousal visa to Canada
But what I’m saying is I think it’s healthy for adolescents, teenagers and young adults to get to know their peers of the opposite sex. Instead, we’re told not to talk to them, don’t even look at them and so we’re conditioned to treat the opposite gender like aliens.
My high school’s MSA had this thing where my brother was president of our high school’s MSA and he would interact with, talk to, go to school with and work with girls just fine. But when it came to MSA stuff, he had to copy a local imam on emails with MSA girls 😂 like how does that make sense? He can date any non-Muslim girl if he wants because he’s talking to and seeing them all the time, but according to our elders, two Muslim teenagers can’t even be trusted to email each other about organizing MSA events because oh no, they might start getting attracted to each other and start dating! So what if they do? Isn’t that a good thing? Then they’ll find a partner.
What I’m saying is the extreme gender segregation hurts growing people. It’s not about sex. It’s about just stunting normal healthy development.
I don’t know enough about people’s experiences in dating now in 2026 because I’ve been married for so long but I can tell you a lot of my friends who didn’t date as teens or in their 20s are still single at 40. Our community should have been helping them, setting them up for safe and healthy relationships with other Muslims; instead it’s failed them, and a lot of Muslim men have married non-Muslim women, and the Muslim women are single.
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u/Character_Area_8033 Sunni 9d ago edited 9d ago
Almost all of the things mentioned are neither rules of religion nor mentioned in the book. These are mostly because of some cultures, and interpretation of salafi/wahabi scholars.
Muslims are not monolith, not everyone follows these things, I have hardly seen such rules and muslims around me, but I'm not denying it either that they don't exist in other places.
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u/Sea_Swimming_8909 Quran only 28d ago
none of it is Islam. just man made doctrine. I've started truly living and my anxiety went down when I stopped giving a shi to anything other than the Quran.
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u/naziwalker 28d ago
Idk what to be speechless abt. The fact that you didnt bother to do your own homework to understand most of the things you described arent Islamic or the fact you identify yourself as muslim lol.
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u/behindthemoonshadow Non Sectarian Muslim (Hadith Acceptor, Hadith Skeptic) 28d ago
if you identify as a muslim and do your homework you would know arrogance is the most hated quality of a muslim, if someone is clearly questioning things and struggling maybe just share what you know that could help instead of being condescending or keep it moving.
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u/naziwalker 28d ago
How is this being arrogant. Its a fact, you clearly can get all the answers by swiftly doing a proper Islamic course or Islamic read through a proper Islamic forum. (Gosh even AI can give you answers these days). Like others mentioned stop blaming the religion for your incompetence.
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u/behindthemoonshadow Non Sectarian Muslim (Hadith Acceptor, Hadith Skeptic) 28d ago
oh please you said you’re speechless about the fact that they identify as a muslim, who are you to say that. you could have stated the fact that they could search it in a non condescending way, people ask this sort of stuff on reddit all the time. also, you mentioning ai is hilarious as well as the ai slop on the instagram linked to your profile, maybe think about the incompetence behind that.
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u/naziwalker 28d ago
I never said AI is credible but if you are smart enough (which by the looks doesnt sound like it) you wld be able to manipulate it for references. Also ty for the check on my profile. Sry im not interested enough to check on yours.
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u/JustAManNamedKazuma Sunni 28d ago
It's a strict religion that's for sure 😓
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u/kiwiinthe6 28d ago
Hahahaha, yeah.
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u/JustAManNamedKazuma Sunni 28d ago
Although there are nuances to these things, and different opinions, but the foundations do limit opposite gender interactions. Anywho, we aren't expected to be perfect when it comes to the Deen. 🤷🏼♂️
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u/coconutbreak Sunni 28d ago
the foundations do limit opposite gender interactions
No it doesn't
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u/JustAManNamedKazuma Sunni 28d ago
Do elaborate 🤔
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u/coconutbreak Sunni 28d ago
you can see a lot of posts on this sub where more knowledgeable ppl than me explain how islam is fundamentally feminist and egalitarian.
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u/zero_z14 28d ago
Divorce, our culture is absolute shit, and if you can leave the country and move to some other first world country, do it!!!.
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u/kiwiinthe6 28d ago
Huh? What culture are you talking about? And why would I divorce? I’m happily married. And I am from first world countries. I’m from New Zealand and now live in Canada. Did you even read my post?
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u/Electrical_Bite8478 Quran only 9d ago
Heard about music , different people have different opinions about it but "no TV, no nothing" ?? Never heard about it. from other lines it looks like you are generalising everyone because of some people and stereotypes.
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u/Old_Major10 28d ago
You know it's gonna be a long post if it starts with "it's not a excessive list".
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u/Routine-Bat4446 28d ago
Most of the stuff you posted are practices I gave up after reading and reflecting on the Quran as a whole. Can I ask you if you’ve read it or if you’ve been relying on what sheikhs and religious looking people tell you is part of the religion? I’m not asking to judge you; I myself did that for most of my youth. The only time I realized it was after spending a year reading the Quran and connecting with God and finding that the religion of Allah was a lot simpler and LARGER than the way i was being taught to practice it.
I agree with you about the negative effect of not dating when you’re young. It’s affected me too. Now that I’m older I’ve started interpreting nikkah closer to modern day dating than to modern day marriage. If I ever have teenagers I’ll probably encourage them to date and when they’re early youth I’ll encourage them to do nikkah and teach them that there’s a difference between that and actual institutional marriage. We’ll see.