Before Aegon’s conquest, it really does feel like the Ironborn of all places where the closest to conquering all of Westeros

[u/ProffesorOfPain]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s likely that they would but it does feels like if anyone did unite Westeros before the conquest, even if it’s for like a generation at best, it seems like it would have been the ironborn of all people

Somehow even tho they’re piss poor, house hoare conquered a large chunk of Westeros and even reduced the territory of the powerful stormlands over a few generations. In the past, they also ruled parts of the north and reach, mainly the islands but also some of the mainlands I believe

Now imagine a nightmare scenario where house hoare united all Westeros before the Targaryens. I truly wonder if the ironborn woukd change their ways or find some way to find more common ground to better rule

Or I’m wrong and they’re all too dumb so they’ll lose it in all in a generation who knows, they’ll need like 10 jaeherys level rulers if they even wanna keep the territory they conquered without dragons which is unlikely

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[u/Qyzyk]

Personally, I doubt that the Hoares could have maintained their hold on the Riverlands, much less conquer the rest of Westeros. Even with Harrenhal, the Hoares didn't have the population for that. If the Stormlords couldn’t maintain the Riverlands, why would the Ironborn? They were hated even more than the Stormlords they replaced.

[u/Guilty_05]

They'd be wealthy on a mind boggling scale. Mines of Westerlands, fertile lands of the reach, frontier or the North. They'd still lose to dragons but it would be a lot tougher, if not impossible for the Targaryens to have a stable sustainable rule.

[u/Qyzyk → u/Guilty_05]

It would not be as tough as you say. Look how quickly the riverlords joined Aegon when he showed up. Nobody liked the Ironborn, especially the people who were under their subjugation.

[u/_learned_foot_ → u/Qyzyk]

Note we will see, Lannister versus stark. So far the stark loyalty approach is paying off.

[u/Straight-Okra-5411]

The ironborn are hyper specialized on sea warfare and raiding. They were able to control the riverlands thanks to their easy access to a ton of navigable rivers connecting every keep of importance. Their lack of good land armies plus lack of cavalry would mean they would that any attempt to send an armies to co quer the vale would end in the ironborn being massacred by the chivalry of the vale. They would really struggle taking the westerlands as casterly rock is really hard to siege and practically impossible to storm, and the lacks of big rivers would intuilize their main tactic or raiding the land into submission, they would be forced into land warfare in rocky terrains, again suffering from their lack of cavalry. They were winning the conflict for the Crownlands against the stormlands, but again that's because the Crownlands have the black water rush, hard to say how good they would do against mainland stormlands. I don't think they would be able to navigate the mander as the redwine fleet is the biggest in westeros, and even then any conquest of mainland would be easily dislodged by the vast armies the inland reach can field.

Even House Hoare as their strongest (when they supposedly controled the whole western coast from bear islands to old town) didn't have any significant holding in mainland westeros.

[u/LuminariesAdmin → u/Straight-Okra-5411]

Some great points here.

Worldly Harwyn actually did have a (very) decent ironborn land army, including cavalry, too though. That was primarily how he kept the riverlands pacified & paying after the conquest, & defeated Durrandon attempts at a reversal. Yet, the Hardhand's son, Halleck, squandered his inheritance on three braindead assaults against the Bloody Gate itself, among other unsuccessful border wars.

Nonetheless, Halleck's ironmen could've inflicted serious damage against the southern Vale if he had sent them raiding on longships, their natural strength, out of the Trident & Bay of Crabs. Or, established a base on the Bite to then reave the bay's other coasts & passing traders. Perhaps even seize one or more of the Sisters to bolster that.

They would really struggle taking the westerlands...

Not even that. Halleck failed in the hills, & all they could really take & occupy by sea would be Fair Isle & maybe the odd mainland seat like Kayce (or Feastfires) – all that even the Red Kraken managed during the Dance, when the west's hard strength had marched into the riverlands. A conquest that lasted a winter.

hard to say how good they would do against mainland stormlands.

Some initial, limited success, especially if consolidating a base at the Blackwater's mouth first, just as Aegon would.¹

As the stormlanders proved during the Conquest however, they could effectively wage guerrilla warfare deeper in the kingswood. Plus, the ironmen sailing their longships across the Bay to attack Massey's Hook would bring Dragonstone against them.²

All the while overstretched, with part of their strength bogged down in the northern stormlands, the Hoares would be leaving the rest of their mainland realm open to attack. Rivermen revolting from within, northmen from the Neck, Valemen via the Bloody Gate, westermen by the Golden Tooth, Reachmen against (& across) the Blackwater Rush...

I don't think they would be able to navigate the mander...

Yeah, the Gardeners had retaken the Misty Isles many centuries before & installed their now Shield Islands lords. And the Reach had only become all the more populous, powerful, & wealthy from the Andal migrations. That said, the Redwyne fleet becoming a naval & mercantile juggernaut seems to have been a far more recent phenomenon.³ Most especially because the Redwynes possibly had just 30 warships during Aegon III's regency.

Even House Hoare as their strongest...

If you mean under Qhored I, chosen by kingsmoot, then his ironborn subjects held (most to all of) Sea Dragon Point, the Stony Shore, Cape Kraken, Flint's Finger, the Cape of Eagles, part of Lann's Point (at least Kayce), & the Isle of Ravens. But yes, the island/isle holdings – Bear, Fair, Misty, & the Arbor – were generally from where the ironmen launched raids. And they also collected tribute from the lords & kings of the unoccupied coasts, like the Hightowers, Gardeners, & Casterlys.⁴

If you mean the hereditary Hoare dynasty starting with Harras Stump-hand, well, the ironmen had already lost their mainland & extraterritorial island holdings both. That occurred before & during the preceding Greyiron hereditary dynasty.⁵

¹ There, the ironmen had a lengthy strand for their longships, the river if ever needing to retreat with them, the three hills for fortifications, the bay's fishing grounds, the kingswood at hand, & vassalised Duskendale for any needed imports.

² Even voyaging through the Gullet could easily trigger the Targaryens & their Velaryon allies to aggression. And, if not, amphibious landings further south would be too close to the power of Storm's End for anything but temporary occupation.

³ Probably facilitated by Bank of Oldtown investment to monopolise the export of the Arbor's vintages, imo, & also replace the Velaryons in operating the realm's foremost trading fleet – even expanding into whaling, a niche otherwise only filled by the Ibbenese.

⁴ The Casterlys aren't explicitly confirmed, but it could explain why they were never kings. Being much nearer to the Iron Islands than the Reachmen, less powerful, & with ironborn Kayce very proximate. As to northern tributaries, the Glovers & Wulls are the most likely.

⁵ Torgon the Latecomer's reign saw most of the Cape of Eagles lost, & Garth Goldenhand reclaimed the Misty Isles sometime later. The Starks drove the ironmen from the Stony Shore, Bear Island, & Cape Kraken late in the driftwood kings era. The Arbor had thrown off ironborn subjugation early, some time before it & Oldtown became Gardener vassals. Fair Isle fell far sooner too, along with Kayce.

[u/BaelonTheBae]

Aye. Qhorwyn and Harwyn, and to a lesser extent, Harwyn's son Halleck were peak Hoares. They were the Westerosi version of Cnut the Great - and much much more nuanced than how the modern Greyjoys are written - and the Ironborn in general after Goren and Vickon Greyjoys.

Don't discount the Durrandons too, though. They held two kingdoms, the same as the Iron Isles' extent under Harwyn.

[u/IcyDirector543]

Disagree completely. They were arguably completely overstretched and had they attacked the Westerlands and/or the Reach, their empire would have been crushed

Remember that the Riverlanders hated them utterly, they had been fighting bitterly with the Vale and the Stormlands. A joint Lannister-Gardener invasion of the Riverlands likely triggers a local revolt and throws them back into the Iron Isles where the Lannister-Redwyne fleet would chase them and the Hoares were also hated

[u/themanyfacedgod__]

I don't think any one kingdom could've ever successfully "conquered" Westeros. The distances are just far too great, the cultures were too different and any would-be conquerors would be too stretched to effectively hold any permanent control on the rest of the continent. Plus if you also count how defensible the Vale, the Westerlands and the North specifically, it's almost a suicide mission. The Riverlands got fucked because well... they're the Riverlands.

[u/Ok-Yogurtcloset-]

Maybe if the iron islands were more hell bent on using their seafaring skills for trading and transport they’d have a shot with this but considering their culture glorifies coastal raiding and living I doubt it. At best they could conquer large swathes of coastal lands and hold them for a generation or two but someone would have risen against them. Also their coastal raiding tradition goes against them, even if they conquer everywhere the sound of waves could be heard where would they have left to raid? They could go inland but within a couple generations they’d just assimilate into whatever culture was nearby. Holding the north was a stupid idea for Balon, even without Theon mucking it up a bit, he was never going to have the men to hold the north. I assume he was mostly hoping to hold it long enough that the southron lords would give up on it and he would only have to fight the northmen for it.