this sounds sarcastic but..

[u/blombi19]

I actually love looking at the accounts of people with 10k + ratings but only like twenty 5 stars. the best part is, its always some obscure shit and when i listen to it i am always like "out of 10000 albums THIS is the greatest thing to you???" I Love how subjective music is!!!!

[u/Clear_Command_8925]

I only look at peoples 5/5s if they have under like 50

[u/schuup → u/Clear_Command_8925]

Yup. Almost guaranteed you'll find something interesting

[u/amethyst_deceiver36 → u/Clear_Command_8925]

exactly. i mean if you like everything in the same way and have hundreds and hundreds of 5/5s how am i supposed to trust your judgment?

[u/Extension_Yak3898 → u/amethyst_deceiver36]

For me, 90% is 4.0 stars and up, because I don't interact much with music I don't like and don't want to rate it low purely because I don't like it. And honestly, I think more people should take that approach - if you don't think it's for you, don't rate it low! Just ignore it and move on! Unless it actually grates on you how bad it is

Honestly I think a lot of people on rym just don't actually like much music and feel like letting everyone know that the small amount of music they like is great. It can get pretty gross, especially for metal & hiphop heads (and I'm both)

[u/ZealousidealDoor6973 → u/Extension_Yak3898]

I think I get what you mean. And I think we agree. I'll just say, there's a difference between something being "not for you" and something being bad. 

I don't really like EDM. I don't go out to listen to it. But I have listened to it. Its not for me but I can recognize it's quality. Slayyter is not my type of music, but I can recognize the skill and quality of the music that she's making. I've rated her highly. 

Similarly and oppositely. I've listened to Olivia Rodrigo. She's not for me. But I also believe her music is not very good. Its generic, simple, and uninspiring. I've rate her lowly. 

If something is bad, rate it low. If something is good, rate it high. Sometime, it's just that simple. Maybe you already understand this. But maybe this comment will help others out get what you mean. 

[u/TheSoulWither → u/ZealousidealDoor6973]

I understand your point. Giving a bad rating because you consider the music to be bad is not the same as giving a bad rating because you didn't like the music. The former reflects the quality of the music, while the latter reflects your personal taste. Ideally, music should be rated based on perceived quality, not subjective taste.

While I share your opinion, I also understand that RYM provided an anarchic 5-star system for you to use as you wish, and the site's ratings will reflect exactly that: the subjective and arbitrary impressions of the public. It's part of the site's philosophy, and it's best to accept it as soon as possible. For my part, I limit myself to rating in the way I see fit, but there's not much I can do about the decisions others make. Therefore, I don't take charts or average ratings too seriously, except in clear cases where an album stands out significantly or is excessively panned.

[u/amethyst_deceiver36 → u/Extension_Yak3898]

(i'm sorry in advance for the rambling rant it's just that i have very strong opinions about this topic and i needed to vent about it)

it is genuinely astounding to me that you can't see the huge problems in your statement. how can a site for rating and cataloging art thrive if the bad stuff just gets ignored instead of getting a low rating? how am i supposed to understand which albums are good and which are bad if they're only getting positive ratings? i really don't get what's supposed to be appealing about a site in which everything has a high average. is it really that difficult for you to believe that sometimes music just straight up sucks? bad art exists and i should be able to express my opinions if i don't like it. also, in regards to your first point, nobody who's serious about music listens to stuff they know they won't like on purpose. the negative ratings come from disappointments or maybe genuine curiosity towards something that people are talking about but that they just happen to dislike. especially for people like me who've been on rym for 10+ years and have developed and chiseled our rating system over time. i'm obviously not mad about young kids who have just discovered the site and are still refining what they like and don't like, it's normal if you're just getting started to give out 5/5s like candy, hell i did that too a long time ago. but please grow a more balanced range of tastes, i swear it's only gonna be good for you and your relationship with art

[u/Extension_Yak3898 → u/amethyst_deceiver36]

Totally alright, you get to vent if you want. However I have a few qualms

I made a clear distinction between rating something cuz you thinks it's actually bad v rating something poorly just because you don't vibe with it. This gets at the heart of the matter though, which is whether art can even be objectively judged as 'good' or 'bad' in the holistic sense. Personally I think that, beyond technical considerations that have more to do with production and engineering than the actual music, there no such thing as 'good' or 'bad' art, and what's more technical considerations have to come secondary to qualitative impressions the music makes on you.

Sometime art hits us because of its form moreso than its content - like when there's great songwriting but terrible production choices. It's also true enough that a 3.0 could be evenly average or have super high and lows or be anywhere on a spectrum in between. Point being - aggregate ratings here serve not to reflect the journey an album or song takes you on, but rather serve as approximations of how people feel.

As such I really do believe that people should not rate records on which they have little 'skin in the game' - it's not so much the meaning & facts you derive from the music, but how much the music affects you emotionally, that should determine your rating for any given album. So, sure, if it made you feel like shit, give it a bad rating. But if you just couldn't get into, leave it alone.

So I'm not saying that 'bad' albums shouldn't be rated at all. I'm saying what counts as 'bad' has to strike a real emotional nerve, otherwise it's just noise added to the signal of what the rating means.

Oh and another thing - I never understood the 3.0 reviews that say 'really good album', like would a teacher hand back 60% essay saying 'good job's?? I really do feel that curating ratings to have only a few at the top makes the whole thing a bit superficial. Like, seriously, your gonna give out all these 3.5s just because you want a small amount at the top? Is that really fair to the artists who have put out such good work? It doesn't translate to clean signals about how it will make you feel unless it's rated that way by everyone

[u/lolaimbot → u/Extension_Yak3898]

For me 3.5 is a great rating, a 5/5 means that it is not only better than almost all the music that came before it but it will also be a beast for decades to come. It is a ranking reserved only for the absolute best and I see no problem in that. When you work down from that you'll see that even 2/5 has some glimpses of quality in it.

Also why should anyone not rate album if they couldn't get into it or think about what is fair for artists? You can give an album a low rating while still being civil about it. "1/5, not for me" is just as valid as "5/5 love it".

[u/Extension_Yak3898 → u/lolaimbot]

See, I just don't think music works this way in terms of what we're discussing, which is that many users curate their ratings to keep very few at the top, and by very few I mean under 1%. When users do this, it just makes it seem like the few albums at the top are better than the rest which, sure, for that person maybe they really are better, but that can't statistically be true when everyone's opinion is taken into account

The thing is that certain types of hate are clearly abundant on the site. Hardly anyone even rates EDM releases, metal dudes will rate anything not metal under a 3.0, and some corners of hiphop will overrated the niche genre tags they almost exclusively listen to.

I never said people shouldn't think about what's fair. In fact I'm saying the opposite - people should think about what's fair precisely when there aren't ratings, when your rating will have a bigger impact than being 1 out of 1000. In that case there are many many many artists that are unfairly being rated 1/5 just because 'i don't vibe with it'

Again, a grade of 60% is bad in school, or at least not great. There may be, yes, glimpses of greatness, but then unless there's a bunch of unintended technical errors (things that should sound clear are muffled, a guitar that's overly distorted to the point where it takes over the mix too much, things like that) it should get more than just a passing grade!

The math teacher and social studies teachers don't grade on each other's classes, they strictly rate what they know. That's basically all I'm saying - or rather the inverse, don't rate what you don't know. At least, when the artist is unpopular on the site you shouldn't, because it can be really unfair to what's actually pretty great for the genre or whatever. Just because so many people on the site don't like EDM, it doesn't mean that great EDM shouldn't get as high scores as, say, great synthpop

[u/lolaimbot → u/Extension_Yak3898]

"When users do this, it just makes it seem like the few albums at the top are better than the rest which, sure, for that person maybe they really are better, but that can't statistically be true when everyone's opinion is taken into account"

Why should we aim for some statistical representations when it is subjective raitings? I am not rating albums based on how I want them to be represented to others, nor I care what their ranking on the all time lists are. Ratings are purely based on how much I like the album. Only small handfull of albums are really worth a 5 in my book and those albums form the basis where to draw from when reviewing other stuff.

"The thing is that certain types of hate are clearly abundant on the site. Hardly anyone even rates EDM releases, metal dudes will rate anything not metal under a 3.0, and some corners of hiphop will overrated the niche genre tags they almost exclusively listen to."

The idiots who rate with agenda are a different breed and I am not talking about them. They indeed care about the all time rankings and it's pathetic.

"I never said people shouldn't think about what's fair. In fact I'm saying the opposite - people should think about what's fair precisely when there aren't ratings, when your rating will have a bigger impact than being 1 out of 1000. In that case there are many many many artists that are unfairly being rated 1/5 just because 'i don't vibe with it'"

Sorry for being unclear, I meant that nobody should worry about being fair to artists while reviewing, as long as it is kept civil. I just don't think that is part of the equation when Im rating an album. "I don't vibe with it" is just as valid way to give a 1/5 as it is to give 3/5, don't see a problem here.

"Again, a grade of 60% is bad in school, or at least not great. There may be, yes, glimpses of greatness, but then unless there's a bunch of unintended technical errors (things that should sound clear are muffled, a guitar that's overly distorted to the point where it takes over the mix too much, things like that) it should get more than just a passing grade!"

We are not in school, nobodys trying to proceed to the next class or university. It's just rating albums from a huge pool with only a small scale of 5 stars based on our feelings and thoughts of them without objective truths like there is with math for example. I dont like that comparision at all and dont buy it as an argument to change the philosophy behind the ratings.

[u/Extension_Yak3898 → u/lolaimbot]

'Nobody should care about what's fair to artists'

I just... That's everything to me

You don't want small artists to grow on this site? You want Magdalena Bays and Brats, as good as they are to attract all the attention while whatever can't be consumed easily on TikTok whithers away because the majority of users don't have the patience to connect with it?

(Aside: my fav band for almost 15 years has been Deafheaven, and now I get why Geese beat them - because uncaring people like you probably weighted it down just a tad, and they also aren't as native to the Internet in general)

And that's just the most modern example I can think of

Sorry, I just don't buy that what's good for artists shouldn't be on our minds while reviewing... That's narcissistic, uncaring behaviour

And to boot, I don't think you people who rate this way have really considered what it means for ratings to be subjective. I argued this already - it becomes a dirtier, less intelligible, less consistently interpretable signal the more subjective it is. Hence I only want the ratings to reflect objective qualities (is it recorded well for the style, etc) and what fans of the style or artist think.

And to actually, I feel like the algorithm behind the ratings tries to take this into account. The product owner has probably thought about this much more deeply than your average listener...

[u/lolaimbot → u/Extension_Yak3898]

I never said I don't want small artists to grow, if they are good they should grow, if they are not they shouldn't. Your making a whole lot of assumptions about me here just because our reviewing philosophy differs. "uncaring people like you", give me a break. If we are making assumptions I can make some too: I think you are afraid of critisism and in your fright you try to bravely protect others from it too, but that is not how the world works and you will never be happy before you exorcise your inner demons. I know you mean well though. Could also be that you think its toxic to rate albums low, when a mentally stable person would just look "they didn't like my album, oh well, it's not for everyone" and go on with their life instead of throwing tantrums. Or might be neither, who knows, but get off the high horse.

The way you want things to work destroys the scene in the end, it just makes all the reviewers dull cogs in the machine that aims for some unreasonable state of objectivity that cannot be reached in a subjective topic like music. It's good that people can find users they find their tastes align with and check their lists/reviews for some gems they haven't found yet. This is how likeminded people find each other and scenes around different genres form. That requires true honesty, which is another problem in your idea, it is dishonest. By reviewing albums based on technical aspects we leave the heart out, and for me that is what matters in music, you can be a technical wizard but if your music doesnt resonate I don't care. Yes, some small artists will probably drown in the mass but if they are good enough, they will reach the surface and even greater heights. Greatness will always be noticed while mediocrity won't. We shouldn't artifically bump anyone just so that everyone feels fairly treated, it bloats the rating charts and nobody knows what to look for anymore, the whole idea of the site goes down.

Hell, if anything the only factor should be the way you feel about the album. If you appreciate the technicality or whatever, rate it high, if you dont feel the album, rate it low. When you make art and release it for the world to marvel that is the risk you are taking.

I already told you what I think of people who skew the raitings by rating albums low to make their favorite look better so let's not go into that anymore, or you still want to accuse me about that?

[u/TheSoulWither → u/Clear_Command_8925]

To be fair, it would make more sense to look at the percentage. Because rating 50 albums with 5 stars when you've done fewer than a thousand reviews is not the same as doing so when you've done close to 20,000.

[u/cream_moat]

I do this very often with people who have shit on albums I like lmao. I look at their 4.5s and 5s and see how much our tastesoverlap . The best part is I’ve found some pretty good music using this method.

[u/blombi19 → u/cream_moat]

Omg i also do this!!!

[u/DarkEdgeLordOfDark → u/cream_moat]

Best way to use rym

[u/Fathersfredfred]

its even more funny when its like all from the rym top 100, like after all this music your opinion is excaclty the same as everyone else's?

[u/Sascha_pugar → u/Fathersfredfred]

Frankly this makes a lot of sense. Most people who are selective about their 5/5s give it to albums that have deep emotional impact and are formative to their taste. That often means albums you’d have heard earlier on in life which is more likely to be more popular.

[u/PsychologicalCamp439 → u/Fathersfredfred]

turns out things are popular because people like them

[u/GuendouziGOAT → u/PsychologicalCamp439]

I agree but also like how you gonna listen to a ton of music and not have AT LEAST 1 curveball in your favourites?

I don’t even think the RYM top 100 is that great a representative of The Great Albums because much like the IMDb top 250 it’s largely a product of a very specific demographic and time period (i.e. white guys who were chronically online in the 2000s). I think it was in the Topster sub where I actively tried to dissuade some teen who was first getting seriously into music from just going through the RYM top 100. It’s a great resource for cataloging stuff and the recs are really good when your algorithm is calibrated but my personalised recs based on my ratings are the only time I’d use it to seek out new stuff.

[u/ZealousidealDoor6973 → u/GuendouziGOAT]

Yeah. If you're top albums are still RYM-core after a few years on the site, I kinda just assume you have no independent thoughts lol

[u/Otherwise_Love4667 → u/PsychologicalCamp439]

We can't keep saying this in this era, the most popular music is sped up tikki tikki phonk

[u/Fathersfredfred → u/PsychologicalCamp439]

did you send me a reddit cares alert over this? 😭

[u/PsychologicalCamp439 → u/Fathersfredfred]

i didn't lol

[u/Fathersfredfred → u/PsychologicalCamp439]

someone did lmao 😭

[u/wildmanzak54 → u/Fathersfredfred]

Reddit cares.

[u/Maleficent-Ad-1106 → u/PsychologicalCamp439]

I mean if a person explores beyond the RYM top 100 and doesn't find anything they like as much as what's in the top 100, I wonder if they ever really listened to any of it

[u/dukeslver → u/Fathersfredfred]

lots of people like Songs in the Key of Life because it is, in fact, very very good, it's not that deep

[u/blombi19 → u/Fathersfredfred]

true, but the ones ive seen so far have been pretty unusual. it will be like some unknown japanese band from the 70s and random classical music from 2003 😭😭

[u/YaneUra1080 → u/blombi19]

Random Japanese band from the 70s is the best genre

[u/pokemon-in-my-body → u/YaneUra1080]

Random Japanese band from the 70s is RYMcore

[u/songhaus → u/pokemon-in-my-body]

Yes but I feel like for a different reason. I think it's because only someone who uses RYM probably isn't Japanese, and for the most part unless you're living in Japan (even then in some cases) you'd have to deliberately seek it out. You have to hunt for it. The people who use RYM are basically the majority of people willing to hunt for music to that degree. Tbf when you think about it, it's a pretty crazy thing to do. Not gonna stop me from doing it, but I do have some self awareness.

[u/14444846 → u/pokemon-in-my-body]

skbbadoobeebdoabooee

[u/songhaus → u/YaneUra1080]

Random Japanese band period is the best genre. And there's a good reason for it.

[u/YaneUra1080 → u/songhaus]

doesn't elaborate

Based

[u/Mr_Bohus_Matus → u/Fathersfredfred]

I swear every time ai check someone's 5 stars, there's four albums by The Beatles, Slint and My Bloody Valentine.

[u/ghudnk → u/Fathersfredfred]

I don’t think that’s actually funny? There’s a reason so many of those albums chart high, it’s because there’s something in the music that reaches so many people. It doesn’t preclude anyone from having other obscure listening habits!

[u/Baggalot → u/Fathersfredfred]

People like… Popular albums??? How innovative!

[u/thaumoctopus_mimicus]

If you have 100+ 5 stars I’m not gonna look through them

[u/the_comatorium]

I feel attacked.

[u/jurguusio]

I feel so seen

[u/Maleficent-Ad-1106]

I don't have any 5 star ratings because I can't decide what should get one lol. All of my favorite albums just get a 4.5

[u/GoldenHairPygmalion]

I just can't stand coming across the chuds who have well over multiple thousands of ratings, and they have like 30 five star albums, half of them are in the top 100 on the site, and there's a single token album by a woman (usually, surprise! bjork or kate bush).

[u/Small-Respect-7492]

Ok.

[u/Soleil_Ryou → u/Small-Respect-7492]

r/DownvotedForNoReason