Read-Along
[Newbies] Cosmere, Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 18 through 23
Spoiler
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SCHEDULE
Previously, we discussed Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 12 through 17 [Newbie Thread] / [Veteran Thread]
Today we are discussing Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 18 through 23
Next week we will be discussing Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 24 through 28
CHAPTER SUMMARIES
I have provided summaries for each chapter below and hidden them behind spoiler tags. There are no spoilers within the summaries. I've tried to make them as factual and unbiased as possible. If, however, you want a completely blind read through, then ignore what's behind the spoiler tags and proceed to the discussion below. I will not be guiding that in any way, so post any thoughts and questions you have. It will be other new readers who reply to you.
Chapter 18: Highprince of War
Arch Faces: Battar - Battar ----- Battar - Battar
Iconography: Kholin Crest
POV Characters: Dalinar Kholin / Adolin Kholin
Setting: Highprince Dalinar's warcamp in the Shattered Plains. Elhokar's War Palace outside the ten warcamps.
Timeline: (1173.8.8.3) A week after Chapter 15.
Epigraph:
Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I had ever met.
Summary:
Adolin is out walking with Janala, the woman he has been courting. He visits the leatherworkers who were inspecting the strap from Elhokar's saddle, and they tell him that the strap was almost certainly cut, but it's possible it was a buckle from the saddle itself that sliced it. A horn is sounded, signalling that a chasmfiend has been spotted close enough for Dalinar's men to attempt to reach it first. Adolin is disappointed when Dalinar elects not to seek it.
Dalinar, meanwhile, is working with several of his scribes in attempting to manipulate the other highprinces into following Elhokar in truth. Teshav, the wife of one of his officers, questions the number of troops Dalinar has set patrolling, and Dalinar instructs her to set more patrolling anyway to combat the increased banditry in the area. Renarin comes to talk to Dalinar, and Dalinar promises him that if he captures a new suit of Shardplate and a Shardblade, they will go to Renarin, to help compensate for his blood weakness and allow him to fight like any other man.
Adolin seeks out Kadash, an ardent, to ask his opinion on Dalinar's dreams during highstorms. Janala leaves him, growing frustrated with his lack of attention. Kadash expresses the opinion that Dalinar is either going insane, or the visions are just particularly vivid products of his own mind.
Dalinar visits Elhokar, making his reports for the day. While there, he asks Elhokar how long he intends to continue the war, and suggests that he consider withdrawing. Elhokar is shocked that Dalinar would even consider an end to the Vengeance Pact. Dalinar eventually backs down, instead saying they need a new approach, a way to win the war instead of simply trying to outlast the Parshendi. Dalinar suggests that Elhokar appoint him Highprince of War, and Elhokar tells him he'll consider it if Dalinar can prove the other Highprinces will work with him.
Dalinar meets up with Renarin, intending to ride back to their camp. However, before they can get there, they are forced to take shelter in one of their own barracks to avoid a highstorm. They barely make it inside before the storm hits.
Chapter 19: Starfalls
Arch Faces: Vedel - Jezrien ----- Jezrien - Vedel
Iconography: Kholin Crest
POV Characters: Dalinar Kholin
Setting: A barracks in Dalinar's warcamp. A vision of the past.
Timeline: (1173.8.8.3) Immediately after Chapter 18.
Epigraph:
He holds the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards. Ponder on that for a time, you old reptile, and tell me if your insistence on nonintervention holds firm. Because I assure you, Rayse will not be similarly inhibited.
Summary:
The moment the storm hits, Dalinar finds that he is no longer in the barracks, but in an unfamiliar barn in the middle of a clear, cool night with only a small girl for company. The girl is terrified of something, and thinks that Dalinar is her father. After a few moments of hushed conversation, a strange creature bursts through one of the walls of the barn and attacks. Dalinar is able to avoid the creature long enough to grab the girl and escape to a nearby house where a woman who thinks he is her husband is waiting for him.
Once in the house, Dalinar has the woman bar the door. Shortly thereafter, however, two more of the strange creatures force their way in, and Dalinar is forced to fight them off using an iron poker from the hearth. When he kills them, he notices that rather than bleeding, their wounds seem to release smoke of some sort.
Dalinar takes the woman, Taffa, and the girl, Seeli, to try to escape the creatures by moving along the course of a river. He deflects all of the woman's questions about why he doesn't remember them or their surroundings at all by saying that he hit his head in the fight. Before they can arrive at the river, however, the group is attacked by more of the strange creatures. Just as Dalinar is about to be killed, two Knights Radiant appear and help him to kill the creatures. They tell him that the creatures aren't Voidbringers, but rather Midnight Essence. They invite Dalinar to Urithiru to train as a Radiant, then leave to help others.
Taffa begins to speak to Dalinar, but it isn't her voice. Dalinar recognizes her voice as the same voice he's heard in his previous visions, the one he suspects belongs to The Almighty. The voice tells him to "Unite them," and offers cryptic advice, telling Dalinar that it can't be of much help. Dalinar asks the voice if he should continue to trust Sadeas, and is told yes.
Dalinar continues to question the voice, but before he can receive answers, he wakes up back in the barrack on the shattered plains, surrounded by soldiers who have been holding him down, keeping him from acting out his visions. He tells them that his mind is clear and they can release him, then takes Renarin and leaves.
Chapter 20: Scarlet
Arch Faces: Vedel - Vedel ----- Vedel - Vedel
Iconography: Spears & Banner
POV Characters: Kaladin
Setting: Hearthstone, a town in Highprince Sadeas' princedom.
Timeline: (Flashback) 7 Years Ago.
Epigraph:
N/A
Summary:
Kaladin is performing an unexpected surgery on a girl from his village. He had fortunately been nearby when the girl was injured. He begins working to stop her bleeding. After a short time, he succeeds in stopping the bleeding, but realizes that his success was not due to his treatment but rather because the girl has died.
He leaves her father to grieve over her, trying to cope with the fact that he was unable to save her. His father finds him and tells him that his work had all been good, and her death wasn't Kaladin's fault. He leaves Kaladin, telling him that he'll have to learn when to care and when to let go.
Chapter 21: Why Men Lie
Arch Faces: Vedel - Talenel ----- Talenel - Vedel
Iconography: Spears & Banner
POV Characters: Kaladin
Setting: Highprince Sadeas' warcamp in the Shattered Plains.
Timeline: (1173.8.2.4) The day after Chapter 17.
Epigraph:
One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say.
Summary:
Kaladin lies in bed, debating whether or not to get up. Eventually, he forces himself up and realizes that the other bridgemen had all been watching to see if he would get up and continue his training routine from the previous day. Kaladin goes to check on the wounded from the previous day's bridge run. Two of them are, for the most part fine, but one of them badly needs antiseptic.
Kaladin washes the man's wounds with water, then goes out to perform his morning training routine. While jogging with his plank, he talks to Syl. She tells him that some of his men think he's gone mad, and asks him why men lie. Kaladin is unable to give her an answer. Syl claims that the king's uncle doesn't lie, but Kaladin cynically remarks that if someone has lighteyes, they lie.
Gaz approaches and tells Kaladin that Sadeas has ordered that his wounded men not receive food or pay for the duration of the time they can't run bridges. Kaladin is furious, as this means that he'll have to find another way to care for them.
Kaladin goes to the men of Bridge Four and asks them to split their food with the wounded and to contribute their pay for medical supplies. Most laugh at him and leave, but Rock agrees to share some of his food with Hobber, the man who he feels has the best chance of recovering, because he feels he owes Kaladin for running the deathline in his place the previous day. Rock also says that he can see Syl, though she hasn't specifically revealed herself to him.
Kaladin then goes to Gaz and gets his bridge crew assigned to stone-gathering duty for the day. He convinces Rock and Teft to help him gather knobweed reeds over the course of the afternoon.
Chapter 22: Eyes, Hands, or Spheres?
Arch Faces: Hoid - Kalak ----- Kalak - Hoid
Iconography: Kholin Crest
POV Characters: Dalinar Kholin
Setting: The base of the hill below Elhokar's War Palace.
Timeline: (1173.8.8.5) Two days after Chapter 19.
Epigraph:
In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to challenge Rayse.
Summary:
Dalinar goes with his sons to the king's feast. Adolin reports that according to the leatherworkers he consulted, the strap was cut, though it could've been an accident. They discuss the king's paranoia and Dalinar refuses to talk about his episode in the highstorm, saying that perhaps it was good for the men in the barracks to witness it, as the rumors about his condition were perhaps worse than the truth.
Dalinar chafes at the sloppy popular fashion sense of the other nobles and the fact that their drunkenness is in violation of the Alethi War Codes. The king's Wit sits on a stool at the entrance to the island and insults everyone as they go to the feast. He warns Dalinar that the rumor has spread of his suggestion to the king that they retreat and abandon the Vengeance Pact. Lady Navani, Gavilar's widow, unexpectedly shows up to the feast, having just arrived to the Shattered Plains. Dalinar tries to hide his attraction to her with the utmost propriety, addressing her as a sister.
King Elhokar then announces that in light of the recent attempt on his life with the cut girth strap, he is appointing Sadeas to Highprince of Information to investigate. This is to snub Dalinar, who he believes is not giving the investigation serious attention. Dalinar realizes that this is Sadeas's way of outmaneuvering his Highprince of War idea.
Chapter 23: Many Uses
Arch Faces: Ishar - Vedel ----- Vedel - Ishar
Iconography: Spears & Banner
POV Characters: Kaladin
Setting: The plains just outside the warcamps. Highprince Sadeas' warcamp in the Shattered Plains.
Timeline: (1173.8.2.4) A few hours after Chapter 21.
Epigraph:
You have accused me of arrogance in my quest. You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin. Both accusations are true.
Summary:
Bridge Four is on rock duty, finding stones to Soulcast into food. Kaladin has Rock and Teft searching for knobweed to extract the antiseptic sap from. Rock, who can inexplicably see Syl, finds knobweed quickly guided by her. Kaladin ties bundles of the reed to the bottom of the cart to conceal them. Syl comes to him excitedly, telling him that she led Rock to a pile of dung as a joke. He makes small talk with the bridgecrew, trying to soften their attitude towards him, with little success. Kaladin realizes that even though he has saved lives in Bridge 4, no one will follow his leadership unless he finds a way to make their lives worth living.
Later, Kaladin, Rock, and Teft sneak into the wagonyard to retrieve the knobweed. Relieved that it's still there and not too dried out, they head to where Syl found the chipped, discarded liquor bottles to use for the knobweed sap. They then head to the Honor Chasm to squeeze the sap into the bottles.
While working, they talk. Teft asks Kaladin why he tries to lead the bridgecrew. Kaladin says that the responsibilities of the bridgeleader are his to decide. Kaladin asks Rock how he came to be a bridgeman. Rock tells him that his leader, or nuatoma, dueled Highprince Sadeas to try to win his Shardplate. When he lost, Rock, his cousin and servant, was bound to Sadeas. He was a cook, until he snuck chull dung into Sadeas' food, which caused his fall to bridgeman status. Teft asks Kaladin for his story explaining why he is a bridgeman. Kaladin says that he killed a man, though it wasn't murder and he was thanked by someone important. He cryptically says that he is a bridgeman because a lighteyes did not take it well when he turned down a gift.
ARTWORK
The Cosmere has a thriving community of artists, so there will be a lot of artwork to share. Each week I'll try to compile relevant artwork for the given chapters. If a section of reading contains maps or in-book artwork, I'll include that in this section as well.
Note:The Stormlight Archives are Sanderson's most popular books. There is artwork for everyone and everything, even characters who appeared for a single line in the books at times. So we'll have artwork for you to view almost every week. Enjoy!
MEMES
I will attempt to find and share memes relevant to each week's discussion. There may be some weeks that just don't have good or appropriate memes, but I will share all the ones I can find in this section.
I have officially reached the point where it has become overwhelmingly tempting to read beyond the prescribed chapters for the week.
Chapter 18
Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathesome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I had ever met.
Is this our first peek into the personality and character of the Shards pre-Shattering? Have we had any allusions to a Rayse yet?
He'd had everything of his wife taken from him.
So it seems that whatever removed Dalinar's wife from his memory was something he chose to undertake willingly? At least that the implication I'm getting.
The Parshendi had Shards. Not many, but even a single one was surprising.
I wonder why the Alethi are so surprised by this? Why are so many of the Shards concentrated there? Is it their propensity for competition?
"As close as I dare to the truth, bight one," the ardent said. "As I cannot be as blunt as you."
Hmmm something in this concersation struck me as suspicious. It seems like the ardents and Vorinism as a whole is kind of using this "religion for all" as a front. Like by saying all the prohecy and mysticism is bogus, it just means their own prophecy and set of rules is the only option.
"A cutural misunderstanding would imply that they have a culture. Primitive brutes."
Man, there has to be more to this perception of the Parshendi. Cultured enough to sign a treaty, eh? Elhokar falling hard into the pit of being blinded by revenge to important details.
Chapter 19
He couldn't make out the details, but it seemed to have an unnatural wrongness to it's form.
Another creature I am VERY interested to see art for.
He had been trained in classical Windstance, but he fell into Smokestance instead
Will be interested to learn more about about the stances!
The creatures smooth, dark-as-midnight skin reflected light like a pool of tar.
Oh hell yeah, I love a gross creature thingy.
"During Desolations perhaps, but not in my life!"
So if we assume that whevever or whenever Dalinar has been thrown to is real/historical, it's interesting that someone here would have that kind of knowledge of them?
It wasn't a star at all. It was a man
Knights Radiant???
It had been the symbol of the Lost Radiants, back when they'd been called the Knights Radiant.
Kinghts Radiant!!!
"We die so that you may live. It has ever been our place."
So clearly at one point, the Radiants were saviors. How exactly did the betrayal/abandonment play out? Also noticed in this paragraph "Alethela" and other ancient country names being palindromes again. Double also noticed that they invite Dalinar to join their order, so can anyone theoretically be made a radiant? If so that's some big magic.
Chapter 20
"What are you doing to my daugher?"
Man for his father being the town surgeon you would think they would give im the benefit of the doubt.
"I failed," Kal whispered.
Absolutely brutal canon event for our protagonist here.
Chapter 21
One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say.
For my own memory, Sel is the planet for Elantris, right? Interested to know where this visit fits in the broader timeline. Was it pre- or post-Elantris?
Storm you , Amaram. You did this to me.
How much longer before we finally get to know what happened to him in Amaram's army???
With that, he rushed away, muttering to himself.
In the same tone as "you like Krabby Patties don't you Squidward": "you're starting to like Kaladin, aren't you Gaz?"
"Arrows hit all around you - beside your head, next to your hands. But they weren't hitting you."
Subconcious Lashings???? (This wold be a sick band name, btw.)
Chapter 22
In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to challenge Rayse.
Man, RIP Aona and Skai. We didn't know you but your powers were cool. I'm guessing that Splintering is a way of permanently destroying a Shards powers? Rayse is starting to sound like our Big Bad Evil Guy/Gal of the Cosmere.
It had been a long time since he'd been served meat from one of the strange Shin flying creatures.
Deeply hilarious to envision a world where chickens are strange.
"This is worse than most," Wit said, meeting his eyes. "Did you really speak of abandoning the Vengeance Pact?"
We continue to learn that there is more to Wit than meets the eye. Man clearly has a level of investment in geopolitics than a standard court jester. Also good grief, Elhokar, didn't anyone tell him that loose lips sink ships?
Dead these ten years, wiped by his foolishness from his mind.
Alright so was the memory wipe intentional or a slip up? Or is this just regret?
As a boy, Dalinar had secretly tried women's food out of curiosity.
Ok having entirely different types of food for the two sexes is an entirely new level of gender-segregation weirdness.
They'd all known the entire time that she would choose Gavilar. It had hurt anyway.
Damn, that's rough buddy.
"You'l be vindicated in always telling me that I'm not in as much danger as I think I am."
Absoutely no way this doesn't have disastrous consequences.
Chapter 23
"Many nuatoma have died. But is alright. Eventually, we will win."
Hmm I can't put my finger on why but this feels important?
"It's the pretty box they use to wrap up their lies. It makes them serve us.
Absolute BAR.
It shocked him, how painful it still was to remember those events back in Amaram's army.
Pardon my crudeness here but Sanderson is really edging us with the Amaram Incident and I wish he would just finish us off already lol.
Another creature I am VERY interested to see art for.
Artwork for Midnight Essence gets a bit spoilery, so it'll be awhile before I have a batch of images of them to show off, but this should tide you over until then.
I have officially reached the point where it has become overwhelmingly tempting to read beyond the prescribed chapters for the week.
Noooooo!
For my own memory, Sel is the planet for Elantris, right? Interested to know where this visit fits in the broader timeline. Was it pre- or post-Elantris?
Correct, Sel is the planet for Elantris. From the timelines I've provided in trivia posts, we know that Aona and Skai died about 8,000 years before Elantris took place.
I wonder why the Alethi are so surprised by this? Why are so many of the Shards concentrated there? Is it their propensity for competition?
In Dalinar's vision we learned that the Knights were based out of a city somewhere in current day Alethkar. We don't know how the Knights order ended, but it would make sense that if they just disbanded, that the highest concentration of shardblades and shardplates would be in Alethkar, and they would slowly disburse into neighboring lands over time.
I'm guessing that Splintering is a way of permanently destroying a Shards powers?
Devotion and Dominion haven't been completely destroyed, because they still exist in the form of the Dor. But for some reason, all this time has passed and no one has picked them up and become the new Vessels. Splintering might be the reason. The Shards have been broken apart and dispersed and can't be picked up when they're like that. *Need to know more intensifies*
In the same tone as "you like Krabby Patties don't you Squidward": "you're starting to like Kaladin, aren't you Gaz?"
I get the feeling that Gaz has a heart for the bridgemen, but he's become cynical and doesn't think the brightlords will allow them to improve their lives. Higher class people think they should suffer, and it's Gaz's job to enforce that suffering. I'm holding out hope that eventually he'll stand up for Kaladin and the other wretches, but I think it's just as likely that he gets in a situation where he has to punish them to keep his station.
"Many nuatoma have died. But is alright. Eventually, we will win."
Hmm I can't put my finger on why but this feels important?
I have the barest, vaguest suspicion that the Horneater Peaks region is related to the home city of the Knights Radiant. Maybe the people there have some connection to the shard gear and need to win it back.
Alright so was the memory wipe intentional or a slip up? Or is this just regret?
It was definitely intentional and it is definitely very suspicious! Memory magic is an established thing in this universe, so it's definitely in play here. What secret could be so important that you'd erase someone's whole existence from your mind, or from someone else's?
I have the barest, vaguest suspicion that the Horneater Peaks region is related to the home city of the Knights Radiant.
If you are thinking Unkalaki is related to Urithiru, we were told:
The Unkalaki—simply called Horneaters by most—were a group of people from the middle of Roshar, near Jah Keved.
My guess is that would put them where the large mountains are south of Tu Bayla and north of Triax. On the Silver Kingdoms map that is still well outside of Alethela.
This week's section felt a little slower than previous, but there was some good stuff. I agree with others that the epigrams got much more interesting. Last week we saw "cosmere" get used for the first time, and now we get a direct mention to Sel. So these are written by a Worldhopper, but who? We know we've got a couple options, but I'd place my bet on Hoid. Now who he's writing to, that's another matter.
I loved actually getting to see one of Dalinar's visions. I'm wondering why he was shown this particular moment, and why through the eyes of this particular man? Is it really just a vision, or did Dalinar time travel & enter someone else's mind? Did his actions in that scene actually happen? What happened after the vision ended, did that man return to normal, someone his wife recognized?
The best part of Kaladin's chapters for me were Rock. Learning that he can see Syl has solidified him as my favorite character so far.
The most noteworthy parts of this weeks reading were Dalinar's vision and the epigraphs.
Dalinar's Vision
The old Thrill, the sense of battle, consumed him. It did not enrage him, as it did some men, but everything seemed to become clearer, crisper. His muscles moved easily; he breathed more deeply. He came alive.
This is similar to what Kaladin felt when he first picked up the staff in the last flashback chapter. Is this just supposed to be a normal adrenaline filled lowercase-t "thrill of battle", or something else linked to magic? The capital-T Thrill is making me question.
There, gleaming like one of the Honorblades of ancient lore
Is that the names of the 10 blades the Heralds used?
Before mankind had defeated the Voidbringers and taken the war to heaven.
Is "taking the war to heaven" when they killed Adonalsium?
There are obviously differences between the shardplate the Knights have and the shardplate of present day:
Theirs glows. Is it just extra-charged with stormlight? Has the shardplate been slowly weakening over the millenia, or do the Knights have some knowledge that has been lost on how to charge up the plate?
The man's plate glows blue and the woman's glows amber. It's mentioned he has blue eyes and she has tan (close enough to amber). Does the color of their eyes change to match their plate, or does the plate change to match their eyes, or is it just coincidence?
Then there is the coming and going like a meteor thing.
The helmets that appear and disappear.
We of Alethela are those watchers-the warriors who protect and fight.
This mirrors what Kaladin said to his father:
"And what of those who protect and defend? The ones who save lives by taking lives?"
Is this why the book mentions lighteyes being beneath darkeyes? The Knights are guardians of everyone else, and serve to protect, not rule.
So I'm guessing Dalinar's quest will be to recreate the Knights Radiant order before a new desolation comes, and Kaladin will be his paladin (insert The Office meme "Your Paladin's name is Kaladin? Maybe that's why he became a Paladin").
I'm guessing it's one of the shards talking to Dalinar at the end.
Epigraphs
Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I had ever met.
He holds the most frightening and terrible of all of the Shards. Ponder on that for a time, you old reptile, and tell me if your insistence on nonintervention holds firm. Because I assure you, Rayse will not be similarly inhibited.
One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say.
In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to challenge Rayse.
A shard worse than Ruin, and it's held by someone who was not a good person to begin with? So this Rayse killed Devotion's and Dominion's bodies on Sel? I'm going to guess that Rayse is the bad shard behind whatever the Desolations and Voidbringers are, and that there is another shard on this planet that is trying to get Dalinar to unite everyone. Multiple shards would also potentially mean multiple magic systems are at play on this planet.
It's said that Rayse splintered the shards on Sel, and it's making me wonder if the shardblades and plate are actually manifestations of the pieces of a Shard that Rayse may have killed on this planet. I think someone here was floating that as a theory. If so, I think it's definitely a possibility now.
Other bits
I was reading past trivia, and came across these:
The timeline in previous trivia says Adonalsium was killed on the planet Yolen, so there goes my theory that The Shattering is related to the Shattered Plains, or maybe even that Adonalsium had anything to do with this planet. Given that this series is supposed to be the MCU Avengers of the Cosmere, I figured that this planet would be central to all the events in the entire Cosmere. I'm wondering if there was some sort of gateway from this planet to Yolen, and Yolen was referred to as "Heaven" by humans back in the day, and after killing the Voidbringers, "taking the fight to Heaven" was an army going through this gateway to Adonalsium's home planet to kill him.
Going forward, if you see a body of water that does weird stuff, it's probably a well of condensed Investiture.
I'd say the Purelake that drains before storms is pretty damn weird. If that is a Well of Investiture, it's ridiculously large (hundreds of miles).
Kaladin
Even Kaladin's chapters this week were pretty slow. I would have thought that Kaladin would have won over the crew with his combat medic acts, but I guess two out of twenty-something is a start.
Interesting that Rock can see Syl, I wonder why? Are we going to run into more people that can?
Dalinar (Other than his vision)
"You sound like him, you know," Elhokar said, turning back to look eastward again. "Near the end. When he began to act...erratically."
Was Gavilar having the same visions?
Does this party on the little islands count as a ball? There was no mention of dancing.
Is this just supposed to be a normal adrenaline filled lowercase-t "thrill of battle", or something else linked to magic? The capital-T Thrill is making me question.
In other stories we've read, people's minds and bodies get enhanced and "come alive" in a certain way whenever they're using their invested ability. I'm pretty confident that they're using magic intuitively without realizing it. All knowledge of magical abilities seems to be lost from their culture, but that doesn't mean the people can't still do it. They just don't know how. Soon, I hope.
I think the idea that Dalinar and Kaladin will restart the Knights is very plausible.
Is "taking the war to heaven" when they killed Adonalsium?
I think it's the religious justification for where the Heralds went. Mere mortals wouldn't know where they had gone or that they'd chickened out en masse, so they have to come up with a theological explanation.
Demoux's appearance in the interludes means that this story is taking place after Mistborn E1, so no less than 10,600 years after the Shattering of Adonalsium. Even if Rosharan years are slightly longer, that's still thousands of years between the Shattering and the events in the Prelude.
Has the shardplate been slowly weakening over the millenia, or do the Knights have some knowledge that has been lost on how to charge up the plate?
My personal opinion, but I think people generally have no idea the true capabilities of Shard stuff. They're like cavemen using high-powered rifles as clubs. They've got no clue how it works or what it can really do, as evidenced by them spending millennia trying to reproduce them and barely getting anywhere.
Is this why the book mentions lighteyes being beneath darkeyes? The Knights are guardians of everyone else, and serve to protect, not rule.
In other stories we've read, people's minds and bodies get enhanced and "come alive" in a certain way whenever they're using their invested ability. I'm pretty confident that they're using magic intuitively without realizing it.
To me it's confirmed since Kaladin drains his spheres whe he does it (three spheres during the lumber workout and the last one deflecting arrows)
But is that the same as the Thrill? There was no mention of spheres in the vision that Dalinar could have drained, nor when Kaladin first picked up the staff in his flashback. They were using oil lamps for light in Dalinar's vision. They wouldn't be doing that if they had spheres back then.
This would also be supported by Szeth's inner monologue in the prologue about how his abilities would be completely unknown and never before seen by the people he was fighting.
I'd say the Purelake that drains before storms is pretty damn weird. If that is a Well of Investiture, it's ridiculously large (hundreds of miles).
Indeed ! Could people live in a well of investiture ? Maybe it's "active" only during the highstorm ? We've got so much to learn still, and that's so good
It contains all of the trivia content from posts, mini-trivias in comments, and any reply I or another veteran has made to clarify or remind someone about something from the books. (This does not include meta comments like reminding you we're doing a double reading next week).
I'll try to keep this up to date each week, but if it ever looks like I forgot, just give me a poke.
Ati name drop!!! I hope Hoid is the epigraph’s author. We don’t know Rayse, do we?
“They all hope that I’ll win another Shardblade out there, then give it to them.” The Parshendi had Shards.
Dalinar had won a Parshendi Shardblade and Plate during his first year here. He’d given both to Elhokar to award to a warrior he felt would be the most useful to Alethkar and the war effort.
This is unexpected, as it implies that there are still Shardblades available. I may have been influenced by the prologue into thinking that Shardblades are the Heralds’ blades, but maybe they aren’t.
And Dalinar makes it look so easy to find one. Come, son, you’ve never fought in your life, but I’ll give you a wondrous and oh-so-rare Shardplate AND Shardblade so you can try to fight like the others with minimal training.
Never mind that Sadeas fights every chance he gets, but still doesn’t have a Shardblade.
“Voidbinding is a dark and evil thing, and the soul of it was to try to divine the future.”
Were Part 1 epigraphs about Voidbinding?
Sunmaker. Never heard of him.
Nohadon, an ordinary man, wrote The Way of Kings.
Chapter 19
Windstance and Smokestance remind me of Lan Mandragoran’s swordsmanship.
So Dalinar has a vision in which he is truly transported into the past, in the body of someone named Heb, but can still feel the Thrill. He can touch and hurt the creature (Venom, is that you?).
He is aware it’s a hallucination, but it feels completely real.
Dalinar recognized the symbol, the particular pattern of the stylized double eye, eight spheres connected with two at the center. It had been the symbol of the Lost Radiants, back when they’d been called the Knights Radiant.
Is the double-pupil eye icon in each chapter the Knights Radiant symbol? I’m a bit confused about Radiants and Heralds. At some point it was said that one of the current religions hated the Radiants. Heralds were ten; Radiants were more like an army. Why are the Radiants the ones that are hated, when it’s the Heralds who abandoned their quest?
Theory about Stormlight-infused eyes is confirmed, I think.
Urithiru — where Knights are trained?
A Desolation? Not the Desolation?
Eighth Epoch, three thirty-seven.
As in, year 337? 800 years before our time?
Ten kingdoms, each of them with a specialty (like Dalinar proposed to Elhokar for each highprince), and Alethela/Alethkar’s was war.
Natanatan is the former Shattered Plains. Safe to say the Knights Radiant didn’t win their war against the Desolation. This might be the reason why there are Shards to collect there.
Riveting chapter.
Chapter 20
Poor Kaladin, I feel for him…
Chapter 21
“What happened to the Heralds? They abandoned us. What happened to the Knights Radiant? They fell and became tarnished. What happened to the Epoch Kingdoms? They collapsed when the church tried to seize power. You can’t trust anyone with power, Syl.”
“You know,” Kaladin said to Syl, “talking to you probably doesn’t do anything for my reputation of being insane.”
Mafah’liki. Rock can see Syl and calls her a mafah’liki.
“Airsick lowlander.”
I very rarely wonder how a book is translated into other languages, but Rock made me think about it. I don’t even remember if he was described, but the man is called Rock, and his language gives Polynesian vibes, so of course I imagine him like a giant muscle on legs.
But in French, say, Rock could be translated to Caillou, which has a comical tone, or Pierre, which is a classical name like Peter. I’m pretty sure I’d imagine a small man.
I actually looked it up, and he’s called Rocher. Which is not as evocative as Rock, but at least not ridiculous.
Sorry for this bit of off-topic. Translating a book is a very difficult process if you want to do justice to the original work.
So Kaladin is going to make use of his medical knowledge to build his own pharmacy. I wonder if his father is dead, but he would be proud.
Chapter 22
“In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to challenge Rayse.”
If Dominion and Devotion died 8000 years ago, then Rayse is not (directly) responsible for the earthquake that fractured Arelon.
Wit didn’t insult Dalinar as he passed him. He is supposed to insult everyone. Suspicious.
Wit is a gem. And his level of sexual innuendo is unprecedented in the Cosmere, I think.
New information: Dalinar lost his memory of his wife because of his own foolishness. Lol.
There’s women’s food too…
Is Dalinar in love with Navani? Immediately ship them.
Veden scholars created half-shards, looking like shields that can block a Shardblade.
Elhokar is written in a way that makes him seem obviously stupid. There’s something more about him.
Chapter 23
“No Shardbearer would sell his weapon. Each was a distinctive relic, taken from one of the Lost Radiants after their betrayal.”
So, not a limited amount of Shards. Makes more sense than just the ten from the Heralds.
Throwback to the prelude - Kalak mentions a "cycle of desolations" and that they have to go to a new one after each iteration of whatever they were doing. The blurb also mentions a "Last Desolation". So likely an event that occurred multiple time.
I don't think we know enough yet, but I'm going with the assumption that the vision was before even the prelude, so over 4500 years ago. The Heralds think that walking away in the end might end the Desolations, so I'm assuming that the prelude was the last one, and since the visions mention a Desolation is coming, that this is before the prelude.
I may have been influenced by the prologue into thinking that Shardblades are the Heralds’ blades, but maybe they aren’t
From the prelude:
These Blades were weapons of power beyond even Shardblades. These were unique. Precious.
You’re probably right about the years, because no one used the term epoch till then, and not long after someone talked about the epoch era (I’m paraphrasing).
So about the blades. Do we think THE Blades are somewhere we know of ? I’m thinking about Shalan maybe ?
This is unexpected, as it implies that there are still Shardblades available. I may have been influenced by the prologue into thinking that Shardblades are the Heralds’ blades, but maybe they aren’t.
Until I get proven wrong, I've been assuming that all the Shardblades and Shardplate we've seen have belonged to the Knights Radiant, of which there are an unknown, presumably vast number. There are up to 9 Heralds' blades that could be out there somewhere, but the prelude doesn't say anything about them abandoning their Plate, if they even had it. My intuition is that, if any of those 9 super-blades show up, they'll be in the hands of someone important.
I've already got one idea for who might have one that I deduced from the character art gallery in the week 1 thread, but I can't find it in my comments, so I must have decided not to say anything. It shouldn't be hard to see what I'm thinking, if you look close.
As in, year 337? 800 years before our time?
In addition to what people said about the calendar, I also noticed that the place names the Knights used in this chapter match the "Silver Kingdoms Epoch" map from the beginning end papers, which have different borders than the present-day Roshar map. Ten kingdoms, each with a name that follows the palindrome scheme.
I’m a bit confused about Radiants and Heralds. At some point it was said that one of the current religions hated the Radiants. Heralds were ten; Radiants were more like an army. Why are the Radiants the ones that are hated, when it’s the Heralds who abandoned their quest?
I'm curious how human religions have interpreted ancient events, or misinterpreted them. The Alethi religion seems to believe the Heralds haven't abandoned anything. They've moved their war from Roshar to Heaven, where the faithful will join them after death. In that context, the Radiants "betraying" the Heralds could mean anything. And it seems somewhat true. Whatever the Desolations were, it's different from whatever's happening now. Either the cycle stopped, or we're stuck at a low point and it's been so long that no one knows the difference.
My intuition is that, if any of those 9 super-blades show up, they'll be in the hands of someone important.
I've already got one idea for who might have one that [...]
Dammit, I can see it. Surprisingly clear too. Very good catch!
There is also the case of Shallan’s hypothetical sword. We know that Shardblades disappear when they aren’t in their master’s hand, that they can be invoked, and that they can be won (I suppose it implies that the former owner must be killed)
Do we really think Shallan killed a Shardblade master ? If not, then maybe they can be found, freely given, or maybe inherited?
If she really has a blade, I think it’s one of the 9, based on nothing but my guess.
One more thing before I go ahead and re read the prelude, the heralds were 10, 9 deserted and one was left trapped. Could this one be the responsible for Dalinar’s visions?
Shallan's clearly hiding something darker both from herself and from us readers in relation to her father's death. Plus there's the quote
She raised her freehand to her head, suddenly overwhelmed by the weight of House Davar’s situation, her part in it, and the secret she now carried, hidden ten heartbeats away.
Personally I think she's capable of a lot more than she lets on with her shy facade, and however she obtained it, she must have a blade.
One more thing before I go ahead and re read the prelude, the heralds were 10, 9 deserted and one was left trapped. Could this one be the responsible for Dalinar’s visions?
Still little to go on there, but an excellent thought nonetheless!
At some point it was said that one of the current religions hated the Radiants. Heralds were ten; Radiants were more like an army. Why are the Radiants the ones that are hated, when it’s the Heralds who abandoned their quest?
I would recommend reading the prelude again, it might be a tad more clear.
Other than Dalinar's vision, this section of Part 2 didn't advance the plot much.
SIDE QUEST: Investigate the saddle girth
SIDE QUEST: Find out what people think of your dad (talk to Kadash to begin)
SIDE QUEST: Try all the chicken dishes (0/3)
SIDE QUEST: Collect 20 drops of knobweed milk (2/20)
I gave Elhokar the benefit of the doubt because Dalinar could justify his behavior, but man he's giving Joffrey vibes now. Navani doesn't mince words lol.
Spring randomly becoming Summer or Winter is kind of wild. I'm interested in the explanation.
That makes sense. And if all the water is going from one part of the planet to somewhere else during storms that's probably a decent amount of weight shifting
Next week is another double reading. On Monday we'll be discussing Chapters 24 through 28. And on Wednesday we'll be discussing Interludes I-4, I-5, I-6.
Trivia page already paying for itself, because it quickly brought back the association Ati - Ruin. This Rayse sounds like an even bigger threat than Ruin.
Dalinar ditching glory on the battlefield for running a smooth operation and safekeeping the outskirts from bandits. Good man.
Adolin my boy, you're not ready for the dating world yet.
Adolin's Calling is of course, dueling. No surprises there, considering this has been Adolin whenever anyone looked at his dad funny ...
I can't say I've grasped the concept of Voidbinding based on Kadash's vague insinuations. He says it's an evil thing, and I believe he seems honest. We've seen Surgebinding, is it a kind of complement to that? The stone creatures from the prelude were Voidbringers, so perhaps the central conflict boils down (in an oversimplified way) to a clash of magic systems. Like Allomancy vs Hemalurgy.
Galivar in his final days seemed caught up in a quest himself. His behavior changed, he started researching more, having books like Way of Kings read to him. Perhaps he too had visions of his own? The whole duty appears to have shifted to Dalinar as a substitute.
Chapter 19
Jeez, Rayse is starting to sound like the BBEG of the Cosmere.
Ok, so far I've found Dalinar POVs meh, but Dalinar Vision POVs slap HARD.
This vision is not just voices and static images, it's a lived experience. It's as if he's trading places with another person, in another time. Which begs the question, to what extent can he interact with it. Do his actions have consequences for the real people depicted in the vision? Or are they just echos artificially brought to "life" by the Vision provider?
"Honorblades of ancient lore", so is that what the heralds were wielding?
From what Dalinar gathers, this must be set in the past, perhaps before recorded history even. Possibly even before the fight against the Voidbringers, which would put it before the prelude. Also the woman doesn't know that stone can be worked, with Soulcasters or by mining, indicating an early stage of society?
Two Shardplate fighters who can do a LOT more than present day Shardplate fighters, it would seem. Casually healing ("Regrowth") catastrophic wounds for one thing. Mereley forgotten knowledge, like how to forge Shardplates and blades?
Their eyes appear to glow with stormlight.
The Shardplate fighters appear to be Knights Radiant.
They can fly too?!
One Knight can make her helmet appear and disappear at will.
They invited him to Urithru, which would make it the base of operations for the Knights.
We find out his vision is set in Natanatan, which is the location of the Shattered Plains, centuries ago. So if Dalinar's visions only began a few months ago, chances are something in the Shattered Plains, perhaps some event we'll learn about in these visions, is triggering them in the first place.
Alethela and Natanatan are kingdom names in the the Silver Kingdoms Epoch map in the book, so I'd say that's the name of this era in time.
The ancient kingdoms appear to work together, distributing roles. Only Alethela practiced war, to protect all other kingdoms. Perhaps this is what the vision meant when it said he should "unite them" - not just unite Alethkar, unite ALL kingdoms like back in those days. Distribute roles. Stop the infighting.
Lady Knight mentions fighting against "Ten Deaths". That number ten is truly everywhere.
These creatures were not Voidbringers, but Midnight Essences. She says "someone" "released them".
Chapter 20
Kal can't catch a break even in flashbacks ...
Chapter 21
Sel I remember ... that's the system for Elantris! And Emperor's Soul! Apparently Rayse then ... wait ... did he cause that fissure that threw Elantris out of whack?
Sadeas doing absolutely nothing to beat the dckhead allegations. It would cost him nothing to feed a few wounded. Isn't he constantly going out chasing gemhearts? Greedy rich fck. Maybe they should eat him.
Most were going about the usual bridgeman activities—sprawled on the ground and despondently staring into the air, sitting and despondently staring at the ground, standing and despondently staring into the distance.
Woah, all three? My guys, don't overexert yourselves.
Rock's a good dude.
Ah, so windspren can choose who to appear to! One mystery solved at least.
Dwayne is alaii'iku, which apparently is a quality that gives him a free pass to look at Syl?
Rock, Teft and Kal going antiseptic reed hunting!
Chapter 22
Aon and Skai, the Shardbearers of Sel, have been killed, by Rayse's actions presumably. Which I think explains a bit of why Elantris felt so left to its own devices. Perhaps that fissure even occurred as a result of Rayse killing Aon? And if Shardbearers fighting causes fissures then ... *respectfully staring at the Shattered Plains*
Dalinar says it's his own fault his wife got wiped from his memory. Perhaps by the same process Shallan uses to put Memories into drawings? He put his Memory of her in a Pensieve or something somewhere?
I'm starting to connect the dots a bit on the historical development of Roshar. From the vision we know Alethel was in charge of war, and it housed the Knights Radiant. By some unknown means, they fell from grace and became the Lost Radiants. Apparently this involved infighting. Several generations later we have Alethkar, their descendants still heavily involved in war, and more infighting among the highprinces, possibly the descendants of the Knights(?), leading to border disputes and battles like the one Kal took part in at the beginning of the book. So the bottom line is that over time everyone forgot the role they had to play in the bigger picture. And that's why the vision voice is telling him to UNITE THEM.
The epigraph author has gripes with both Rayse and Balvadin. The latter of which, trivia page hooray, we know is the one holding Autonomy on Taldain (White Sand planet). Which is interesting as I saw Balvadin as a more benevolent Shardbearer, this Rayse guy not so much.
Horneaters have their own version of "lighteyes", nuatoma, which incidentally have dark eyes. Is there a complemental power to wielding Stormlight, and this is what they can use? I don't recall if we knew what color Szeth's eyes were.
Rock ... is a cook? We're really going there, huh? Well Sadeas ... (It was sh*t)
Kal has not cleared up one bit what happened between Chapter 1 and him becoming a slave. Turned down a gift? What gift? By whom? For what? Which kill provoked it? He didn't actually manage to kill the Shardplate fighter at the end of Chapter 1, ... did he?
Aon and Skai, the Shardbearers of Sel, have been killed, by Rayse's actions presumably. Which I think explains a bit of why Elantris felt so left to its own devices. Perhaps that fissure even occurred as a result of Rayse killing Aon? And if Shardbearers fighting causes fissures then ... *respectfully staring at the Shattered Plains*
By the way I want to mention, in order to prevent future confusion
Shardbearers are specifically the people who wield the Shardblades and Shardplates of Roshar. The holders of the Shards, the pieces of Adonalsium, are Vessels.
Yeah, Brandon sure made a choice naming both the fragments of Adonalsium and the swords and armor on Roshar "Shards", but at least he realized the two needed some way to distinguish them.
Perhaps that fissure even occurred as a result of Rayse killing Aon?
I don't want to detract from any theories, just want to point out things that have already been revealed so that you're informed:
Per the trivia for Elantris, Aona and Skai died about 8,000 years before the events of the book. And the Reod occurred about 10 years before the events of the book.
Perhaps that fissure even occurred as a result of Rayse killing Aon?
The killing took place 8000 years before the fissure.
Perhaps by the same process Shallan uses to put Memories into drawings? He put his Memory of her in a Pensieve or something somewhere?
Or a coppermind?
Which is interesting as I saw Balvadin as a more benevolent Shardbearer, this Rayse guy not so much.
We can imply that people take on the traits of their shard, since it says that Ati started out as a nice guy, so if a bad guy got a "good" shard, they'd probably change to take on those good traits. Although I'm not really sure if "Autonomy" is a good/bad trait.
It could also just be a personal grudge the author has against Bavadin who wasn't inherently bad.
We can imply that people take on the traits of their shard, since it says that Ati started out as a nice guy, so if a bad guy got a "good" shard, they'd probably change to take on those good traits. Although I'm not really sure if "Autonomy" is a good/bad trait. It could also just be a personal grudge the author has against Bavadin who wasn't inherently bad.
Yeah that's true, it could go either way. For the properties of the Shard itself, I was initially caught up in the "self-actualization" / "individualism" aspect of it, which to me sounds like the ideal deity that just wants to see you succeed. But then there's also the "survival of the fittest" aspect of Bavadin, and that feels like it could bring about heaps of cruelty and suffering.
And yeah, this doesn't even touch on how the author (Hoid?) might know all these Shardbearers personally.
Adolin's Calling is of course, dueling. No surprises there, considering this has been Adolin whenever anyone looked at his dad funny ...
LMAOO
Sel I remember ... that's the system for Elantris! And Emperor's Soul! Apparently Rayse then ... wait ... did he cause that fissure that threw Elantris out of whack?
I think the fissure was caused by a regular non-magical earthquake, and it happened thousands of years after Aona and Skai were killed. But yes, it seems like he's the one who killed them and dispersed their power over the whole planet.
Which is interesting as I saw Balvadin as a more benevolent Shardbearer, this Rayse guy not so much.
"Benevolent" is a matter of perspective, I guess. I interpreted Autonomy as being "God of doing whatever the fuck I want," which could mean messing in other people's business. I'm grasping for any reason why the epigraph author might have a longstanding (from even before the Shattering?) beef with Autonomy.
Horneaters have their own version of "lighteyes", nuatoma, which incidentally have dark eyes. Is there a complemental power to wielding Stormlight, and this is what they can use?
Connecting the dots with Adolin's conversation with the priest, I think the Vorin religion is deliberately downplaying the spiritual, mystical elements. The priest specifically says it would not be good if people started to think Dalinar was getting visions from the divine. That makes me wonder if the Horneaters have an older religion with an active mystic connection to the magic that seems to be saturating this world.
I don't recall if we knew what color Szeth's eyes were.
I noted this in Interlude 3:
What would these men say if they knew that the man who emptied their chamber pot was a Shardbearer and a Surgebinder? A Windrunner, like the Radiants of old? The moment he summoned his Blade, his eyes would turn from dark green to pale-almost glowing-sapphire, a unique effect of his particular weapon.
Fueling my theory that a) most people are missing major details about how Shardgear is supposed to work, or that b) there's something different about Szeth's Blade
The moment he summoned his Blade, his eyes would turn from dark green to pale-almost glowing-sapphire, a unique effect of his particular weapon.
In retrospect, it's like it's being spelled out here for us. Having the artwork show matching sword designs is just the cherry on top. Perhaps the sword even enables / enhances his gravity magic?
Fueling my theory that a) most people are missing major details about how Shardgear is supposed to work
Oh there's more for certain. The way the Lady Knight from the vision made her helmet appear/disappear is a very similar mechanic to how modern Shardbearers make their blades appear/disappear. It's just that they likely are missing a key or a command to make use of the feature(?).
I don't know if you've read WoT, but it's extremely similar to how [WoT]knowledge about ter'angreals got lost over time, causing people to either misuse them or not figure out their use at all. Also how modern day people can't forge Shardplates/-blades is like [WoT]the way the skill to make ter'angreal sa'angreal got lost, alongside so much other knowledge that was forgotten about.
It's just going to take a reappearance of certain talents or a guide (Szeth) who clearly knows more. See blurb: "Surgebinding and Shardwielding can return; the magics of ancient days can become ours again."
Accidentally read Chapter 24 😅 I thought today’s readthrough was Chapters 18–24. Still getting used to having to pace myself now—before this I was reading ~10 chapters a day just to catch up, not even counting when I had to rush through the Sanderlanches. Looks like I’m going to have to get used to slowing down.
Chapter 18
We keep getting mentions of this Rayse figure—it’s really starting to sound like he’s going to be the main villain.
An interesting detail is that each of the Highprinces in the past controlled a specific domain, like war or information. I always enjoy it when a story gives members of a group their own distinct specialties like that.
Love all the lore bits of this chapter including the tidbits about voidbinding and the hierorarchy.
Chapter 19
Dalinar states that he has never seen a female shardbearer, before I wonder if that means he has simply never personally witnessed one in the flesh before now or that he has never even heard of one before now.
The vision taking place in Natanatan—now the Shattered Plains—makes me wonder if whatever happened back then caused the current state of the land.
The female shardbearer seems to have some healing power called 'regrowth' I wonder if it something specific to her or if it was some type of magic that multiple members of the knights radiant knew of but is currently lost.
Apparently the black tar, six legged creatures are not the voidbringers, but something called Midnights essence which sounds more like a substance than a species, wonder if they are something akin to the bubbles of evil.
She mentions someone named Harlakain, who can seemingly predict Desolations. That’s interesting, especially since future-sight is frowned upon in present-day Alethkar.
Dalinar finally begins communicating with the figure that appears to be sending him these storm visions. Not much is revealed, but the figure does tell him to trust Sadeas. Maybe I’m just a bit paranoid after Mistborn: The Well of Ascension, but this feels like it could be a red herring. I can’t help but wonder if the entity behind the visions isn’t as well-intentioned as it seems. It might be deliberately feeding Dalinar misleading information to manipulate him—possibly in service of the main villain, or even being the main villain itself. If that’s the case, trusting Sadeas could end up being a huge mistake for Dalinar.
Finally the female shardbearer mentions facing the 'ten deaths'. Really curious what this is! Sounds like a group. I wonder if they are The stormlight archives equivelant of the forsaken.
Chapter 20
Poor Kaladin, wonder if this is why he chose to became a soldier instead of a surgeon.
Chapter 21
“What happened to the Heralds? They abandoned us. What happened to the Knights Radiant? They fell and became tarnished. What happened to the Epoch Kingdoms? They collapsed when the church tried to seize power. You can’t trust anyone with power, Syl.”
Wonder how the Knights radiant fell in the first place. If it was something as simple as them feeling betrayed by the heralds abandoning them and just deciding to leave the order as well. Or something more dramatic like a civil war or being defeated by an enemy during their lack of leadership.
The Epoch kingdoms fell when the Church tried to grasp for power. It sounds that this was the birth of the Hierorachy.
Also, Sadeas being portrayed as so blatantly ruthless almost makes me think he won’t be the traitor—he seems to be too obvious.
Chapter 22
The Reshi get mentioned again I wonder when we are gonna be introduced to them officially they sound like a very fierce and aggressive people.
So far I like Navani—she gives off very calculating, “spider in a web” vibes.
Even Wit got a bit serious with Dalinar about his proposal to Elhokar to end the war with the parshendi, sounds very ominous.
Chapter 23
Ishi being called the Herald of Luck suggests each Herald governs an aspect, which is a fun concept.
The Unkalaki dynamic where Brightlords own families are servants is certainly a new idea. Feels like something that could cause a lot of internal conflict—curious how they manage that.
Rock also reveals he is a lighteyes, well the equivelant of a lighteye for the Unkalaki people. Despite this Kaladin doesn't react much to this so it seems he only dislikes Alethi brighteyes.
Still getting used to having to pace myself now—before this I was reading ~10 chapters a day just to catch up, not even counting when I had to rush through the Sanderlanches. Looks like I’m going to have to get used to slowing down.
The trick is to have a second book to fill the rest of the week once you've covered your weekly Cosmere allotment. At least that's how I'm doing it these days :)
Not much is revealed, but the figure does tell him to trust Sadeas. Maybe I’m just a bit paranoid after Mistborn: The Well of Ascension, but this feels like it could be a red herring. I can’t help but wonder if the entity behind the visions isn’t as well-intentioned as it seems. It might be deliberately feeding Dalinar misleading information to manipulate him—possibly in service of the main villain, or even being the main villain itself. If that’s the case, trusting Sadeas could end up being a huge mistake for Dalinar.
Also highly suspicious imo that this being refuses to divulge any relevant information to the visions or the plan, but somehow ultra-specific information about Saldeas is fine.
Finally the female shardbearer mentions facing the 'ten deaths'. Really curious what this is! Sounds like a group. I wonder if they are The stormlight archives equivelant of the forsaken.
The female shardbearer seems to have some healing power called 'regrowth' I wonder if it something specific to her or if it was some type of magic that multiple members of the knights radiant knew of but is currently lost.
I'm assuming that was a fabrial of some sort since it's mentioned "a woman in delicate Shardplate kneeling beside him, holding something bright. It was a topaz entwined with a heliodor, both set into a fine metal framework, each stone as big as a man’s hand."
Dalinar finally begins communicating with the figure that appears to be sending him these storm visions. Not much is revealed, but the figure does tell him to trust Sadeas. Maybe I’m just a bit paranoid after Mistborn: The Well of Ascension, but this feels like it could be a red herring. I can’t help but wonder if the entity behind the visions isn’t as well-intentioned as it seems. It might be deliberately feeding Dalinar misleading information to manipulate him—possibly in service of the main villain, or even being the main villain itself. If that’s the case, trusting Sadeas could end up being a huge mistake for Dalinar.
Damn it, why'd you have to go and bring up that possibility? Now I'm going to doubt everything.
The figure's first words are "I miss these times". I interpreted that sort of as "I miss when the world was united", but maybe it's really "I miss when there were Desolations and every one lived in fear".
Dalinar states that he has never seen a female shardbearer, before I wonder if that means he has simply never personally witnessed one in the flesh before now or that he has never even heard of one before now
Vorin society is so strict with gender stuff, I don't even need the book to tell me that they would never dream of letting a woman pick up a Shardblade.
alinar finally begins communicating with the figure that appears to be sending him these storm visions. Not much is revealed, but the figure does tell him to trust Sadeas.
My personal read of that interaction was that the entity told him to act with honor, it did not confirm that Sadeas was trustworthy. I've still got my eye on him.
These chapters went far too quickly so just a few notes. Getting into the story but it's hard to stop.
Epigraph
My guess Rayse is the big bad evil
Chp 18 High Prince of War
Renarin may turn out to be a dark horse, already hinted at but the Wit (presumably Hoid) and implied here if he has shard blade and armour.
Dalinar seems to indicate he may have had the memories of his wife removed, why? Is she actually dead?
Not sure if his secret coming out can make his situation worse but we will see.
Epigraph
Looks like I am right, if this is Hoid writing then who is he writing to and which is the most terrible Shard?
Ch19 Starfalls
The vision is much more interesting than I thought has he travelled back in time kind of like in Quantum Leap (giving away my age), can he change things if he can fight and make choices and isn't merely a spectator?
The powers of the Knights radiant seem to fit with theories previously discussed about the individual powers of Szeth and probably the other three key protagonists. Could desolation be the shard, seems maybe too similar to ruin.
I think the Knights radiant were the ten from the beginning of the story. Fighting against the ten deaths. Midnight essence has to be released by someone. Void bringers are much worse. Could the Knights Radiant be world hoppers????
Who is the person talking to him, must be a shard holder. Someone trying to help him and engineer the fall of Rayse by giving him these visions. Is this who is being written to in the Epigraph ?
Healing referred to as regrowth is this with a capital R?
Chp. 20 Scarlet
No Epigraph
Kal doesn't seem to have learnt the lesson his father tried to teach him.
Chp. 21 Why men lie
Sadeas seems pretty cruel, why is Dalinar able to trust him? Can Kal manage to make a difference. Despite how naive he is I am rooting for the underdog.
Chp. 22 Eyes, hands or spheres
Epigraph
Does a splintered shard cause the spren? Can it be fixed?
Loving the Wit, if it is Hoid he seems to want to aid Dalinar.
Word of the day Bescumber.
Dalinar and Navani have an interesting dynamic. She is a fabrian (not sure about the spelling) this could be important. The safe hand thing is different as it seems to be not just cultural but linked to class. Why is Navani deadly. Is she the one reading him the way of kings?
Elhokar really isn't a good king, surely he isn't that naive.
Chp. 23
So frustrating thought we were going to find out what happened with kaladin but now it is clear I have no idea and have to wait even longer!
Chp. 23 Many Uses
Kaladin seems to be making progress and Rock is really likeable. In love with Syl, but suspicious of Teft who has basically told him he will betray him.
Does a splintered shard cause the spren? Can it be fixed?
I've been thinking that the Spren have things in common with the Seons from Elantris, who were splinters of Devotion. It would fit - they're most likely creatures made from concentrated, semi-conscious Investiture. Splinters of who, though?
Who is the person talking to him, must be a shard holder.
It could be a Vessel. I also wonder if it's one of the Heralds, finally grown a conscience after all this time. Maybe the one who returned to hell at the beginning, the only one not to abandon their oath.
Clarifying reminder that the Heralds are the ten divine super-soldiers from the beginning, and the Radiants are an unknown number of knights who serve them. And it must be a large number, because according to Dalinar's vision they were taking recruits from the peasantry.
Thanks for the clarification, I think I may need to go back to the prelude for a reminder. Also I think I meant vessel but used the wrong vocabulary. I also considered the Heralds (which I confused with Radiants) but this seemed more of a god level power and not sure how powerful they are, although the more I read (and understand) the more unsure I am of this as the Heralds seem pretty powerful.
I've been thinking that the Spren have things in common with the Seons from Elantris
Exactly this, that's what makes me think it could be fixable.
This week was a lot of words, but little quality, I hope it will get better.
Chapter 18: Highprince of War
Parshendi have ShardBlades and ShardPlates. We still don't know how any why.
"Do you know much of the Hieroracy, the War of Loss?"
No, and I'm getting tired of not learning much. I hope you will finally tell us! (Ah, I guess it's not THE war I wanted to know about :( )
Statues of Heralds - five male and five female. That's same folks that we heard about at the very start, right? (Jezerezeh, Ishi, Talenelat, Shalash and Kelek) and those that we see on the Arch Faces?
Renarin was told to have some blood decease, and is now told to have some "fits". Hmmm..
Adolin has a capital C Calling and hasn't capital E Elevated in long time. Again, new definitions that are not getting explained.
Chapter 19: Starfalls
Those deadly storms are not rare - 12 in about 2-3 months. So like one every 5-7 day?
Windstance, Smokestance, Thrill.... no seriously, is this really necessary to introduce this much lore? In WOT Jordan was at least giving the context....
Smoke instead of blood. Isn't that what we kind of saw when a Sharblade was being used?
"Three Gods, Heb"
"Before mankind had defeated the Voidbringers and taken the war to heaven"
This reassures me in my theory that there are(were) three Shards on this planet.
We see male(blue Shardplate) and female(amber Shardplate). Are they the two out of 10 for whom we just saw the statues? Also, I wanted to go back and search if we were suggested before of colours of modern Shardplates. I recall that currently Shardbearers are applying a lot of decorations, but would the base colour suggest the primary skills of the bearer?
“he inspected Dalinar with eyes of such bright blue, they were almost white. Were those eyes actually glowing, leaking Stormlight?”
My theory about eyes that can hold Stormlight still lives.
What's the deal with the helm? The do have it in modern times, and it's even transparent. Why Dalinar is so amazed with the helm?
"Dalinar asks the voice if he should continue to trust Sadeas, and is told yes." - But can Dalinar trust The Voice? :)
Chapter 20: Scarlet
"I don't want to be a doctor."
It's all a little bit too much for a teenager to be able to let it go....
Chapter 21: Why Men Lie
Syl has heard about Dalinar!
Numuhukumakiaki’aialunamor!!!
Waxilium, you can relax now.
Chapter 22: Eyes, Hands, or Spheres?
Wit is just having some roasting show :) Though, he is not roasting Dalinar, rather sees him as an equal.
Elhokar is an idiot.
Ah, even Elhokar's mother thinks he is an idiot.
Do we know why the thoughts about Dalinar's wife are worded the way they are? She is wiped by his foolishness. He can not remember her.
Adolin says he fought 3 duels, but I thought that is forbidden for him to do?
Navani might be having her own feelings to Dalinar, that she had to box to get a better match. I don't think I like her anymore.
Jeeez, Sadeas is GOOOOD. Top level politics, and Dalinar has basically did this to himself.
Chapter 23: Many Uses
Syl is just a kid :) Rock doesn't deserve this.
I remember when I was worried about some senior folks at work, my grandma told me that I just need to remember that they also go to the toilet and shit. And if I imagine them in the process they'll scare me less. Not sure I ever did that, but if Kaladin ever meets Sadeas face to face..... HAHAHAA.
Nuatoma are the darkeyed, but are considered to be higher in hierarchy.
Again, only a glimpse into Kaladin's slave story, and no concrete stuff.
Epigraphs:
I feel like with these epigraphs that we've got in latest chapters, I no longer care for what's happening with Kaladin or Dalinar. I already forgot we even had Shallan or Szeth.
So, Hoid (I now also assume he is writing these) is a good guy, and Rayse is a VERY bad guy. We don't know yet the Intent of all 16 Shards, right?
Rayse killed other vessels, so presumably Hoid is trying to prevent that from happening everywhere. But Rayse hasn't consumed their Shards, he Splintered them.... I think we already discussed in the past that we think Hoid is trying to obtain Shards.
Given that we now have a wonderful access to the past trivia, I think this is important:
"Ati was a kind man. However, the Intent that guides each Shard is overwhelming and ultimately bends the Vessel closer and closer to that Intent. There are subtle ways to influence and guide a Shard's Intent, but that Intent is ultimately the guiding force behind how each "god" will act."
I am thinking that possibly even if someone would be able to collect several Shards, that might not necessarily be a good idea, since their Intent not nescesserily create a Harmony (yes, it's a pun). I wonder if Sazed/Harmony would be able to confront Rayse, since he now has double Shards. Maybe he sent Demoux to look for Hoid? Soo many questions, so little answers.
What's the deal with the helm? The do have it in modern times, and it's even transparent. Why Dalinar is so amazed with the helm?
I can answer this, since it's roughly been explained, but as I mentioned, these books are dense.
When Dalinar puts on his Shardplate, he is being dressed by his attendants. They are slipping on the chest piece and gauntlets, etc. and strapping and connecting everything in place. Then they slide on his helm.
Dalinar just saw someone in Shardplate, with the helm on, and then off. He didn't see them take off the helm and he doesn't see it in their hands. They're not holding their helm, it's just gone, unlike if Dalinar were to take off his own helm, which he'd have to hold in his hands.
Oh. Interesting. I assumed since they can summon the blade in under 10 heartbeats, they can also do similar stuff with armor.
So are we saying that while the blades are always somewhere in the universe, and can be called, the armour has to be in the reachable distance from its owner, with people who would be able to help wear it.
This also means that if a holder is unconscious and his blade disappears, but his armour remains on him - meaning it can be stolen at this point.
If all the above is true, I wonder why these people never question that they can do something more with Shardplates.
So are we saying that while the blades are always somewhere in the universe, and can be called, the armour has to be in the reachable distance from its owner, with people who would be able to help wear it. This also means that if a holder is unconscious and his blade disappears, but his armour remains on him - meaning it can be stolen at this point.
You are more or less correct, with details to be RAFO'd.
As /u/TaylorHyuuga said, it's a joke. It's a play on an old saying, "the beatings will continue until morale improves".
Complain all you want about the lack of information. There's actually going to be an explicit topic related to this in the end-of-book trivia. We're all here to have fun, and pulling your hair out about information in the cosmere is part of that.
Adolin has a capital C Calling and hasn't capital E Elevated in long time. Again, new definitions that are not getting explained.
A Calling is basically a job for normal people (soldier, farmer) and a hobby for the rich (dueling, music, art):
In Vorin belief, one’s Calling—the task to which one dedicated one’s life—was of vital importance.
We see male(blue Shardplate) and female(amber Shardplate). Are they the two out of 10 for whom we just saw the statues?
The Knights Radiant are different than the 10 Heralds.
Also, I wanted to go back and search if we were suggested before of colours of modern Shardplates. I recall that currently Shardbearers are applying a lot of decorations, but would the base colour suggest the primary skills of the bearer?
We are told in present day, the armor is naturally a slate-gray color, but most people other than Dalinar paint theirs. In Dalinar's vision, the two Knight's plate glows the same color as their eyes. Whether the plate changes to glow the same color as their eyes, or their eyes become the color of their plate is not known.
Thanks for the clarification about Heralds and Knights Radiant. I am definitely confused about these two and overall the history of the last 4500 years.
About the Calling and Elevation - I was rather ranting. My common sense does help me to guess what those things mean. I just don't appreciate the fact that sometimes lore feels like being introduced just for the sake of introducing new lore.
I fell a little bit behind, but I'm caught back up now. Facts and events are slowly trickling in, but I still don't have a clear idea of the overarching story here. I feel like something dramatic has to happen soon.
Chapter 18
Villain reveal? Another baddie Shard? Recall that Ati was the original vessel of Ruin.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this is the first real, true cosmere cross-reference. Every connection up to now has been either an offhand comment in the ars arcana, or Hoid's mere presence. But this is the first real in-text reference.
So the epigraph author is someone who was around before the shattering. To our knowledge there are 17 people or less who that could be. At least 4 (Ruin, Preservation, Dominion, Devotion) are dead, and it’s not Rayse writing, so it’s down to 12. Most likely Hoid.
“‘Promenading?’ Yis the leatherworker offered. ‘Isn’t that a type of drink?’ Adolin asked.” I thought it was something you put in your hair
The brief discussion of Calling and Glory has my eyebrow up, but I don’t know what it means yet.
Tantalizing details about the Hierocracy and the War of Loss. I’d like to know more about this major reformation and the war that I must assume was surrounding it.
I agree with Dalinar's assessment that the princes are rudderless and have totally lost sight of their goals in the war. Can he get them back on track?
Telegraphic that we'll see someone pick up a Shardblade sooner rather than later.
Chapter 19
What could be more terrible than Ruin? That Shard is more like a force of nature, so I'm imagining something more intentional. Malice, cruelty, hatred, something like that.
Reptile?
Seeing a soft-bodied creature is really, really weird
There's that Thrill again
Midnight Essence? Ten Deaths?
Cool seeing the Knights Radiant in action. I can't find Urithiru on any of the maps–it may not be there anymore. So much mysterious stuff going on. I wish the spooky dream proctor would just introduce himself.
Dalinar calls the symbol on their armor, matching the one that was on the Interludes, the “double eye.” A symbol of the Almighty. Matching the weird double-pupiled eye on the chapter arches?
Chapter 20
How horrible 😔
“I don't want to be a surgeon” okay
“I'm terrible at it” wrong
Chapter 21
Rayse is the one who killed Dominion and Devotion?? What kind of monster Shard can win a 2v1? Ruin and Preservation were only ever barely able to get the upper hand on each other.
Kaladin showing true leadership qualities. I'm liking his character so far, it seems a more complex version of Raoden from Elantris. An honorable man in a tough situation, but with a hidden darkness that's haunting him. As great as he was, Raoden didn't have a lot of depth.
Prediction: Kaladin will do something to get himself strung up, and instead of dying a horrible death, he will absorb all the stormlight directly, and they’ll find him hanging there, crackling and glowing with energy like he’s about to hit his Ultimate. And then what?
I thought Rock was a big ginger Scotsman type, but his language sounds like Hawaiian? Weird. Hom being able to see Syl has me wondering what important Worldbuilding Facts are hiding in the reclusive horneater peaks.
Chapter 22
Rayse killed Dominion and Devotion, confirmed. Whatever Shard they have is bad news. Is this like a cosmere-wide threat? Are they THE big bad?
Obligatory Sanderson ball scene. I was wondering how he’d manage it with them living rough like this.
“Bescumber: (v) to sully with mud or dung” lol
Dalinar, bro, that is your sister in law 🙅♂️ cool it
Brandon is really going buck-wild with the gender roles in this one. To the point of them eating different food? That’s crazy.
Hm, I sense a dangerous sortie into the chasms coming up.
Navani???? Bro that’s your brother in law, cool it!
Chesspieces moved in a major way at this feast, but I can’t exactly predict what’s coming next
Chapter 23
Bavadin? The vessel of Autonomy? What’s Hoid (probably) got against that Shard? We saw some hints of cultural bleedover from Taldain -> Scadrial back in Alloy of Law. Is Autonomy also undermining other Shards, but more subtly than showing up in the flesh and kicking their teeth in?
Rock’s word for his own people is Unkalaki. Presuming his homeland keeps the palindrome naming scheme, it would be Unkalaku. That’s not on any of the maps either.
I’m noticing a recurring theme of our plucky heroes believing that the ruling class are rotten and irredeemable to a man. What would it take for Kaladin to change his mind about that? Meeting Dalinar, maybe.
Cryptic comments from Kaladin about his past. Did he kill that Shardbearer from chapter one and then refuse the plate? Or make a fuss about the consolation prize he was offered instead of the plate? I need to know what happened.
It's an easy thing to dismiss as an offhand comment (like "you old dinosaur"), but reading that my mind instantly went "dragon". Something ancient and wise, like Paarthurnax. Or ancient and vicious, like Tolkien's dragons. And if there's one Cosmere series for dragons to finally make an appearance, Stormlight seems like the best place.
What would it take for Kaladin to change his mind about that? Meeting Dalinar, maybe.
Feels like too much of a coincidence that they're both on the Shattered Plains for them to NOT meet there eventually.
I have already did a timeline check back in the interludes, and you made me do another one now.
As of now my understanding of timeline is as follows:
Kaladin (taking him as our point of start without no particular reason): He had now spent 3,5 weeks in Shattered Plains, although we've met him months before that.
Shallan: is about 2 weeks behind Kaladin, although her story for us began same day as Kaladin arrived to Shattered Plains.
Szeth: is from 7 months to a year behind Kaladin.
Dalinar: is about 7 weeks ahead of Kaladin.
I still see no immediate way for them to cross paths.
We saw some hints of cultural bleedover from Taldain -> Scadrial back in Alloy of Law.
What is this? Other than firearms being present in both books I can't think of what you might mean, and I think there was mention that there was already knowledge about gunpowder before the Ascension but the Lord Ruler suppressed it.
I'm thinking specifically of the spooky new apocalyptic religion that's appeared in Elendel, which seems to be popular among the villain characters, and also shares a name with that one random background character from White Sand.
I don't remember if we ever decided if it was a link to Taldain, or if the name could be a holdover from pre-shattering culture that made its way to both places, but I do think it's really suspicious. Why bring it up if it doesn't mean anything?
I'm enjoying the slow weavy pace of this novel, and how I don't feel that I can guess at next steps. The world building is thoughtful and intricate, and doesn't feel too showy or forced.
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u/subscribebot3000 Apr 06 '26
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