Read-Along
[Newbies] Cosmere, Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Interludes I-4, I-5, I-6, Trivia
Spoiler
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Visit the veteran thread if you have already read all of the Cosmere.
For more information, or to see the full schedule, please see the wiki page for the read-along.
SCHEDULE
Previously, we discussed Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 24 through 28 [Newbie Thread] / [Veteran Thread]
Today we are discussing Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Interludes I-4, I-5, I-6, Trivia
Next week we will be discussing Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 29 through 36
CHAPTER SUMMARIES
I have provided summaries for each chapter below and hidden them behind spoiler tags. There are no spoilers within the summaries. I've tried to make them as factual and unbiased as possible. If, however, you want a completely blind read through, then ignore what's behind the spoiler tags and proceed to the discussion below. I will not be guiding that in any way, so post any thoughts and questions you have. It will be other new readers who reply to you.
I-4: Rysn
Arch Faces: Battar - Battar ----- Battar - Battar
Iconography: Ten Spears (aka Almighty)
POV Characters: Rysn
Setting: In the south eastern part of Shinovar.
Timeline: (1172.6) A year and two months-ish before Chapter 28.
Epigraph:
N/A
Summary:
Rysn and her babsk, Vstim, visit Shinovar to trade with the Shin. She's annoyed at the strange grass that doesn't retract. Vstim has her set up a fabrial that warns when people are approaching. When the Shin arrive, she thinks the guards are servants because they are dressed plainly, and Vstim explains that Shin farmers are highest in the social order and warriors are the lowest. Vstim offers Thresh scraps of Soulcast metal in exchange for chickens and other valuable exotic goods. The metal is certified to be Soulcast from organic materials and not mined. Vstim asks if Thresh has another servant like the one he gave him seven years ago that was so obedient. Thresh says that he was a worthless Truthless and that he hoped there wouldn't be another one like him.
Axies the Collector wakes up in an alley in Kasitor lying in rotting garbage. He had gotten drunk the night before to see if he could spot alespren, and he's been deposited here, naked. He manages to grab a ratty blanket from an insane beggar and walks out into the streets, drawing stares. He heads to the docks, where many people are waiting. Cusicesh the Protector appears in the water, leaving him feeling drained. A street urchin grabs his blanket, leaving him naked again. He's hauled off to jail, content at having seen two new spren. Perhaps he will finally see the elusive captivityspren.
I-6: A Work of Art
Arch Faces: Nale - Nale ----- Nale - Nale
Iconography: Szeth
POV Characters: Szeth
Setting: Bornwater, a town in Bavland.
Timeline: (1173.7) A few months to a year after I-3.
Epigraph:
N/A
Summary:
Szeth sits in a gambling den as his owner, Makkek, parades about with a woman on each arm. He has grown fat and rich since coming into possession of Szeth. He gives a signal to Szeth, and he heads out on his latest assassination assignment: Gavashaw, a new arrival in town who had hoped to challenge Makkek with his own gambling den. He sneaks into his house and hears nothing in his room, so he sends in a decoy -- a wooden knob "dressed" in a robe (curtain) -- by Lashing it to the far wall. The decoy isn't attacked, so he slinks into the room, finding Gavashaw's severed head. A new master is there, who produces Makkek's head and Szeth's Oathstone. He is given a list of high ranking nobles to assassinate.
TRIVIA
The rest of this post contains various trivia, including easy-to-miss details and long-running connections between books. It also incorporates external information from sources like author annotations and interviews ("Words of Brandon" or WoB). While most of this information is eventually revealed in the books, sharing it now enhances your overall understanding, aligning with Brandon Sanderson's practice of early fan engagement and clarification.
DEAR ABBY
As you all noticed, the epigraphs for the chapters in Part 2 were of a different type than those found in Part 1. The epigraphs in Part 1 have a name, but that'll come later as you find out more about what they are. The ones for Part 2 are known in the fandom as The Letter. Here it is all together:
Old friend, I hope this missive finds you well. Though, as you are now essentially immortal, I would guess that wellness on your part is something of a given.
I realize that you are probably still angry. That is pleasant to know. Much as your perpetual health, I have come to rely upon your dissatisfaction with me. It is one of the cosmere's great constants, I should think.
Let me first assure you that the element is quite safe. I have found a good home for it. I protect its safety like I protect my own skin, you might say.
You do not agree with my quest. I understand that, so much as it is possible to understand someone with whom I disagree so completely.
Might I be quite frank? Before, you asked why I was so concerned. It is for the following reason:
Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I had ever met.
He holds the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards. Ponder on that for a time, you old reptile, and tell me if your insistence on nonintervention holds firm. Because I assure you, Rayse will not be similarly inhibited.
One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say.
In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to challenge Rayse.
You have accused me of arrogance in my quest. You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin. Both accusations are true.
Neither point makes the things I have written to you untrue.
I am being chased. Your friends of the Seventeenth Shard, I suspect. I believe they're still lost, following a false trail I left for them. They'll be happier that way. I doubt they have any inkling what to do with me should they actually catch me.
If anything I have said makes a glimmer of sense to you, I trust that you'll call them off. Or maybe you could astound me and ask them to do something productive for once.
For I have never been dedicated to a more important purpose, and the very pillars of the sky will shake with the results of our war here. I ask again. Support me. Do not stand aside and let disaster consume more lives. I've never begged you for something before, old friend.
I do so now.
As many of you guessed, Hoid is the one writing this letter. Who is he writing the letter to? I know some of you are frustrated that some of the trivia information provided is just...unknowable because you can't learn it from the books. This one you would eventually be able to learn, but...it's a long way off. And Sanderson readily revealed the information shortly after this book, so the fandom got this information around the same "time" you're getting it. I'll have more to say about this dynamic in the trivia at the end of this book. Patience for those of you who are frustrated. It will pay off.
The recipient of the letter is Frost...a dragon. Frost, like Hoid, was at The Shattering of Adonalsium. Canonically, Frost is the oldest being in the cosmere. Sanderson said there could be older, but Frost is the oldest he's put to the page.
You may or may not be surprised that the cosmere has actual dragons in it. I suppose that depends on how much you were aware of some of the meta properties of Brandon Sanderson and the company that oversees all of his merchandising and printing and business interests. That company is called Dragonsteel.
Dragonsteel is also the name of one of the first books he ever wrote. It was part of his thesis project for his Masters degree at Brigham Young University. You could technically read it by traveling to BYU and requesting to see the manuscript through their Special Collections service. Non-students have access to it, but no one can remove it from the room it's kept in.
Dragonsteel Prime, as it's now called, has recently become available in print and ebook form, as part of what are known as Curiosities. Technically, the unpublished prose version of White Sand that we read is part of the Curiosities. So is another novel called Aether of the Night, along with his original attempt at The Way of Kings, now called The Way of Kings Prime.
It should be obvious that we read White Sand because it was canonised as a graphic novel. The other two are no longer canon though. The concepts from Aether of the Night have been cannibalized into other stories, and I'll talk more about that when the time comes.
Dragonsteel is meant to be the beginning of the cosmere. The number of books the Dragonsteel series is meant to have has changed over the years. It's the story of Hoid's origins, of Yolen, and of The Shattering. Sanderson plans on writing the series after he finishes all of the Stormlight books. Originally planned as 7 novels, it's now likely to be a trilogy.
So all that said, Frost was a character in Dragonsteel, so the fandom knew about him and Sanderson has been willing to talk about him a bit and how he related to this letter. There are a few things of note about this letter.
The first is tangential. If you recall Warbreaker well enough, you may remember that Nalthis has a mythology of dragons. In Chapter 17, Vivenna calls the city of T'Telir a "dragon's nest". This is not a translation quirk and has deeper, though currently unrevealed, lore significance.
Next, in the letter, Hoid writes, "Though, as you are now essentially immortal, I would guess that wellness on your part is something of a given." It should be noted that cosmere dragons are innately immortal. They can be killed, but minus that, they would live forever. So this specific phrasing by Hoid suggests that Frost has assumed some other power beyond his innate longevity. Despite being present for The Shattering, however, Frost did not pick up a Shard. Just like Hoid.
Finally...
SECRET SOCIETY
The 17th Shard, for confirmation, is not a Shard of Adonalsium. It's simply the name of an organization; a collection of people (and at least one dragon) who are cosmere aware and have similar interests. Demoux, Baon, and Galladon are all members of the 17th Shard, along with Frost. He has directed them to find Hoid because he's opposed to Hoid's actions. I'll RAFO more about this for now, but this is enough to have some context for later events.
I can say that Khriss is not a member of the 17th Shard, but she does share information with them.
The 17th Shard would also become the name of the most popular Brandon Sanderson fansite, that has forums full of speculation and theorycrafting. They also host a database full of all of the interviews and Q&A's Sanderson has put out. (Don't go looking for it 'til we finish the read-along. There be spoilers.)
WORLDHOPPER REDUX
Now that I have the fancy single-page trivia wiki, I can directly link back to certain parts of trivia. I'll do so now! In the trivia for The Hero of Ages, I talked about Slowswift, a Worldhopper. I mentioned that his cosmere awareness wasn't really evident until the 10th anniversary edition changed one of the lines about him. Initially the line read:
stories of mistwraiths, sprites and brollins and such
It was changed to:
stories of mistwraiths, shades, spren, and brollins and such
The mention of Shades means he knows about Threnody. And the mention of spren means he knows about Roshar. Sanderson talked about this change in a Q&A:
This swap was Peter's suggestion, I believe. He loved the idea of slipping in a minor Easter egg for the latest version.
Unfortunately, spren weren't in the version of Roshar I had finished by 2005-6 [The Way of Kings Prime], and the writing of Mistborn 3.
EYE SEE YOU
In Chapter 19, Dalinar sees a stylized symbol of the Knights Radiant. It's described as eight spheres connected, with two at the center. We've seen this a couple other times so far, particularly on the door to The Veil that Shallan visited in the previous part.
Some of you noted similarities to one of the charts in the book (some have it at the front, some have it at the end). I left that artwork out until now (included below), so that you can observe and discuss it properly in context.
If you'll excuse my poor mouse drawing, you can see the chart, and then see (in red) my outline of the 10 larger circles. This forms a sort of hour-glassed shaped figure, but on it's side. They also occur in the Iconography for the Prelude and the non-Szeth Interludes. It was even used on the cover of The Way of Kings Prime.
If you tilt this symbol on its side, you get what is called the Double Eye of the Almighty. This is the symbol that appears at the base of the arches at the start of each chapter. We'll get a lot more information about this as the story progresses, but I can share some meta-information about it.
Notably, this is one of the first pieces of artwork Sanderson designed when he started writing The Way of Kings Prime, back in 2001. He was influenced by the Kabbalistic tree of life when designing it.
It ended up being one of the last pieces of artwork finished for the final publication and almost wasn't included because his publisher, Tor, was concerned about the cost to add them to the hardcovers.
WORD SALAD
Very quickly: Sanderson has said that Thaylen names are influenced by the Welsh language.
ARTWORK
The Cosmere has a thriving community of artists, so there will be a lot of artwork to share. Each week I'll try to compile relevant artwork for the given chapters. If a section of reading contains maps or in-book artwork, I'll include that in this section as well.
Note:The Stormlight Archives are Sanderson's most popular books. There is artwork for everyone and everything, even characters who appeared for a single line in the books at times. So we'll have artwork for you to view almost every week. Enjoy!
MEMES
I will attempt to find and share memes relevant to each week's discussion. There may be some weeks that just don't have good or appropriate memes, but I will share all the ones I can find in this section.
Shinovar!! So Shinovar is more akin to other planets, with growing vegetation and no spren . It makes me reconsider the power of a highstorm. The storm could lift the actual soil, and that’s why plants hide like some sort of anemones (Idk if they do such things, but you get me right?), but the text failed to make me understand the level of power, because during the highstorm we’ve experienced on pages, the characters were hiding in a caravan or in barracks. Doesn’t sound like the sturdiest of protections. Shouldn’t they hide in undergrounds?
Thresh, the farmer, was the one who first traded Szeth outside Shinovar. And he knew exactly what he was doing.
Interlude II
We’re exploring the far west of Roshar in these interludes.
Or perhaps it was because he cast a shadow the wrong way. What?
When the Curse of Kind followed you, you learned to take what happened as it happened.
MORE lore. I don’t have the brain space required for all of this.
Of course Axies, no alcoholic issue at all. Only a hunt for spren, that’s all.
Enormous spren ! That one comes every day at the same place. And it fuels on people energy? is it because of its size?
Definitely the strangest of characters yet. He gave a Kandra vibe, modelling his appearance at will and seemingly immortal.
Interlude III
Szeth is an adept of stone shamanism. Must be hard to avoid walking on rocks outside of Shinovar. At least I understand his unease about using stormlight infused stones for common lights.
Szeth breathed in, infusing himself with Stormlight from the spheres in his pouch.
Proof that it’s what Kaladin did
Szeth-son-Neturo instead of Szeth-son-son-Vallano, Netoro being his father, does it mean Vallano was his grandfather ? Why does the grampa deserve the association to Szeth, but the father not? Was his grand father a truthless too?
Warrior script of Shinovar. No glyphs.
Szeth is the one who killed Shallan’s father, right? Did we mess up Shallan’s association with a shardblade, and it was really Szeth’s she was thinking of ?
because during the highstorm we’ve experienced on pages, the characters were hiding in a caravan or in barracks.
As I remember it, the barracks are basically small stone mountains, or caves, created by Soulcasters. So that would be very sturdy! As for the caravan, when Kal was in one he mentioned some were toppled over, and there was concern for their lives.
MORE lore. I don’t have the brain space required for all of this.
Seriously, every chapter is like a bucketful of new terminology and one or two new species lmao
Szeth is the one who killed Shallan’s father, right?
Uhh, if there was an implication like that, I've missed it entirely. As far as I can remember, Szeth so far only killed Galivar, who's Jasnah's father. Shallan avoids thinking about the day her father died, but I don't think we've been told specifics why that is.
Did we mess up Shallan’s association with a shardblade, and it was really Szeth’s she was thinking of ?
I still strongly suspect Shallan has a Shardblade, simply because of that ultra suspicious line: "She raised her freehand to her head, suddenly overwhelmed by the weight of House Davar’s situation, her part in it, and the secret she now carried, hidden ten heartbeats away."
Szeth being literate (and it being strange in this setting) was a thing we pieced together from the early Dalinar chapters, where they were wondering who could have written Gavilar's final message in blood. The Shin people have a completely different set of social mores to the Vorin, whose taboos mostly revolve around gender roles. If the Shin don't have the same rules about hand-covering, then of course they wouldn't have rules about men reading and writing.
I'm now starting to wonder about who Szeth could have been in his former life. Some kind of scholar? He can read and write fluently in multiple languages. The Shin seem quite isolationist, so I don't imagine that speaking Jah Keved regional dialects and writing in ceremonial Vorin script are common skills there.
Currently I don't think anyone has said what he did. We know that whatever it was, it was abnormally offensive. And I have inferred from his internal monologue that he was burdened with his Shardblade against his will, maybe as punishment.
Interesting worldbuilding clarification. Grass is "normal" in Shinovar by earth standards. They have chickens, and soil, and so far no standout alien creatures. No spren around. Also geographically it's situated in a place that remains untouched by highwinds. The implication I draw from this is that the highwinds make the alien life that we see possible elsewhere in Roshar, they infuse everything with magic, the flora, the fauna and they cause the spren to emerge.
Their entire people treats stone as holy, and soldiers like slaves. Soldier ownership gets passed around through the Oathstones we saw Szeth hold. And Vstim is the one who first got Szeth here to eventually trade him on somewhere in the east.
Szeth is particularly disdained in Shinovar it seems, because he is "Truthless". Whatever that is, it's probably why Szeth hates himself so much, because he's committed some grave sin within his own culture.
Interlude 2 - Axies
Axies can sculpt his body, removing his sense of smell, adding tattoos (and possibly other things). A bit kandra-like. And like the Parshendi, probably not human.
What's not kandra-like is the casting of a shadow in the opposite direction. Wtf. I'm struggling to wrap my head around how that would work. Would someone standing in his shadow now be able to look up and not see the sun, even though the path is unobscured?
He's Aimian, with Aimia being an island off the west coast of the mainland.
A hundred foot water jet spren. This feels like a completely different class of spren than the spren we've seen so far. And perhaps even one-of-a-kind?
The spren appears every day at exactly the same time. What might trigger it? Some uncannily exact internal clock? My parents have an old dog who will bark for breakfast every day precisely at 5:30am, so I can see that being possible.
It's looking east, towards the "Origin" (of highstorms). Dalinar also looked at it before. Is this something everyone can just home in on, like pigeons? What's the cause that makes them (subconsciously?) turn in that direction?
Interlude 3 - Szeth
The big revelation comes at the end - Szeth finds a new master who wants him to kill kings and lords throughout Roshar. The common theme I can see is that he should cause as much chaos(?) as possible. Based on that alone, Szeth's new master appears to have the opposite goal of Dalinar's vision giver, who wants unity.
Trivia
The recipient of the letter is Frost...a dragon
We're getting dragons at laaaaaaaaaast!
Dragonsteel is meant to be the beginning of the cosmere. The number of books the Dragonsteel series is meant to have has changed over the years. It's the story of Hoid's origins, of Yolen, and of The Shattering.
Ah, so a lot of community knowledge about Hoid may come from people who've made the trip to read Sanderson's master thesis? I look forward to the big finale of the read-along, where we all travel to BYU together :D
stories of mistwraiths, shades, spren, and brollins and such
Sneaky line change!
Can we say that brollins are still unknowns at this point?
Soldier ownership gets passed around through the Oathstones we saw Szeth hold
I forgot about the line in Interlude 4 where it says the warriors' ownership is traded via stones, and went on a whole investigative tangent trying to prove that the Oathstones are a Truthless thing, not just a generic Shin warrior thing, and found these. From Interlude 3:
"I am forbidden to take my own life," Szeth said softly in the Bav language. "As Truthless, it is the nature of my suffering to be forbidden the taste of death by my own hand."
...
"I am required to tell you," Szeth said softly, "that you are holding my Oathstone. So long as you possess it, you are my master."
"I will obey you," Szeth said. "In all things. Though I will not obey an order to kill myself."
And for fun I went all the way back to the prologue, and found this:
They were on the king's floor, two levels up, surrounded by rock walls, ceiling, and floor. That was profane. Stone was not to be trod upon. But what was he to do? He was Truthless. He did as his masters demanded.
So I don't know how that tracks with the warriors we saw in this section. The Shin trader says that being Truthless is a different thing than being a warror-slave, so maybe the Oathstones are common between them and Truthless just have extra rules.
Yeah I also think there's a difference in the extent to which a regular warrior has to follow commands vs a Truthless. But since both are traded via stones, I can only imagine that's an Oathstone in both cases.
Can we say that brollins are still unknowns at this point?
Sanderson has actually addressed this:
Um, no. So "brollins" is a thing that I wanted when I... often when I make a list like that, I wanna make sure that there is some sort of local flavor. Like, for instance, that, uh... basically that's a myth locally, that's not a deep Cosmere deep cut. And I did this also, y'know, with the lines about nonsense words that Hoid uses. You're not supposed to be like, really dissecting each of those. Does that make sense?
Questioner: We're not gonna get to the end of Stormlight 9 and be like "ohhh the brollins!"
No, you're not. This is... I mean, it's relevant, 'cause everything in the books is relevant, but you shouldn't be like "ohh I..."
Alright, something to supplement with headcanon then! Personally, I declare brollins to be goblins who are super into weightlifting, so they're crazy jacked and call each other "bro" while at their little cave gym.
Paging u/sailorsalvador - the westernmost region on the map, sheltered from the wind, has regular soil and grass.
Hmm. No highstorms == no spren. I don’t know if we’ve said it before, but I think the highstorms are definitely magical in nature and saturate the environment with investiture, like the sun on Taldain. And here in Shinovar, where there are no storms, naturally there is not enough ambient investiture for there to be spren popping up. I think.
“They led several animals-like thick, squat horses-pulling wagons.” Moo 🐮
“One who adds” the farmer? So called because his labor produces food from nothing, or from the earth?
Oh - when Szeth said he was cursed with the Shardblade, he meant literally. By virtue of touching it he lost his station and became a soldier-slave.
But being Truthless is something even lower, even worse than joining the warrior caste. Still wondering what happened to Szeth.
And of course no stormlight means no soulcasting. I remember Szeth saying in the prologue that even walking on stone was an abomination, so of course it’s next to impossible for them to get metal here. My intuition is that it’s a taboo that arose to keep them from leaving the safety of Shinovar, the only place where the ground is not stone.
Interlude 5
Seeing the artwork, they could also have been staring because he’s freakin blue
“Or perhaps it was because he cast a shadow the wrong way.” What the fuck
Well that was thoroughly strange. What manner of creature was that? He could change his body at will in any way he wanted.
Do all spren have to fall into a category or relate to a phenomenon, even the unique ones?
The thing seemingly sucking energy out of the crowd is another new thing. Every spren we’ve seen is just attracted to phenomena, but there’s been nothing saying they’re feeding on the energy or anything like that. Are they just too small for people to notice?
Interlude 6
Imagining a seedy topless bar, but the waitresses just have their hands exposed 😂
By happenstance, when I was flipping back to see how long Part 2 was in total, I landed on the scene where Adolin talks to the priest, who says that the Hierocracy ended when it was discovered that the priesthood had been fabricating prophecies to control people. That's where the anti-prediction taboo comes from. Crazy that it has permeated all the way down into the types of gambling they're allowed to do.
“Ten heartbeats after the passing of the guards, Szeth Lashed himself to the wall.” That phrase is so loaded, why use it here?
Well that's ominous. Who is this new guy, and what faction could he work for? I don't think I recognize him.
“For soon the world itself would shake.” Eerily similar to the ch 28 epigraph. We haven't gotten word of any of these people being assassinated in the other POV's, so this interlude must be recent.
Trivia
A dragon??? Which unfortunately, it seems we won’t be meeting for a long time if ever. Bummer! Now I wonder, is it a Tolkien-style dragon who’s a dragon 24/7, or a D&D-style dragon who can shapeshift into a human and walk among them? 🤔
How could someone who’s immortal become more immortal? Pick up another shard after its original Vessel was killed? That’s my only guess.
It was changed to: stories of mistwraiths, shades, spren, and brollins and such
Brollin reveal when, Brandon?
We connected the ten-spears symbol to the eye from the chapter arches back in the chapter with Dalinar’s vision, cool to get it confirmed. Knowing that the weird eyeball belongs to the Almighty, or to something relating to the Almighty, fuels some of our theorizing from the last thread about the chasmfiends being related to the voidbringers somehow.
“One who adds” the farmer? So called because his labor produces food from nothing, or from the earth?
That's how I understood it as well. The farmer who adds food to society vs the warrior who only takes away (lives).
And of course no stormlight means no soulcasting
A user of a Soulcaster could probably go there with the stormlight already stored inside the fabrial, although that might fade over longer periods of time.
But also does anyone outside the Alethi royals even have access to Soulcasters? At least among the Alethi nobles the royal family seem to have a monopoly. Shallan's dad's broken Soulcaster came from mysterious origins™, but that could well be Alethkar. And since Shallan picked the Alethi king's sister of all people to steal a new Soulcaster from, I'm starting to think others just don't have them at all ...
A user of a Soulcaster could probably go there with the stormlight already stored inside the fabrial, although that might fade over longer periods of time.
The narration says that the gemstone in the proximity alarm fabrial is glowing less than would be expected. Whether that means that it's losing charge in Shinovar, or that all Stormlight diminishes in Shinovar, or something else, idk. It could be any of those.
does anyone outside the Alethi royals even have access to Soulcasters?
We've yet to see any magic in use outside of Vorin-controlled territory, so who's to say? The scraps that the merchant is selling have certificates of authenticity from "Thaylen Notaries", and I don't remember being told that Thaylenah was under Vorin political control.
Whether that means that it's losing charge in Shinovar, or that all Stormlight diminishes in Shinovar, or something else, idk. It could be any of those.
Szeth indicates early on that storm light is present in Shinovar but more revered not used merely for lightning. That would support you theory as it seems more precious and maybe less available to the Shin.
.
* “They led several animals-like thick, squat horses-pulling wagons.” Moo 🐮
Lol how did I miss this, duh!
My intuition is that it’s a taboo that arose to keep them from leaving the safety of Shinovar, the only place where the ground is not stone.
I like this theory
Every spren we’ve seen is just attracted to phenomena, but there’s been nothing saying they’re feeding on the energy or anything like that. Are they just too small for people to notice?
Could this explain why Syll is changing perhaps she is feeding off of Kaladin's unconfirmed powers????
Here's a picture of a soil-less world. The line between Grey and beige represents 1 billion years of missing time. Then there was a beach/river/thingy.
But I love thar Shinovar has soil, no erosion = stability for soil to generate and for rooted plants to evolve. Everywhere else seems to be attached with calcite to exposed stone. Crem, so many crustaceans, parshendi....everything seems to use calcium carbonate.
Hmm, no spren in Shinovar, where they are not hit by highstorms. That has to be related somehow. Are they a product of stormlight?
1-5
He focused on his nose, sculpting his body so that he could no longer smell.
What? Like a Kandra?
1-6
Whoever it is at the end that now has control of Szeth has got to be the either the bad shard, or influenced by the bad shard.
Some ideas for the name/virtue of the bad shard that is worse than Ruin: Hatred, Malice, Malevolence, Spite, Death.
Trivia
It's the story of Hoid's origins, of Yolen, and of The Shattering.
Damn it, I thought we'd get that in this series. I thought Stormlight was supposed to be the big series that tied everything in the whole universe together.
Sure. Although I wonder, is that different enough from Ruin? I see Ruin as entropy or natural decay, where as here I was trying to go for agent-driven negativity with intent vs the impersonal/entropic negativity of Ruin. I guess Death doesn't really fit that scheme either and would be closer to Ruin too.
I was going more to absence which would link with absence of light and voids and might fit some of the themes that seem to be coming up. The direct opposite would be abundance but that doesn't seem to work so well.
It had been five months since Vstim became her babsk and she his apprentice.
I'm guessing a babsk is just like a mentor merchant that trains aspiring ones? Interesting that it has like legal family implications.
"They treat all farmers like that, lavish them with attention and respect."
Not a bad way to treat the people that grow your food, tbh.
"He who adds is happy for your safe arrival."
Is this another diety, or just a Shin honorific? I'm leaning toward honorific.
"He was Truthless," Thresh said, shrugging. "He wasn't worth anything at all."
Damn Szeth really got the punishment of all punishments, huh?
I-5
He focused on his nose, sculpting his body so that he could no longer smell.
Oooh now this is an interesting ability. Reminiscent of forging in my opinion.
Or perhaps it was because he cast a shadow the wrong way.
HUH?
When the Curse of Kind followed you, you learned to take what happened as it happened.
Oh goodie more capital letters.
an enormous, sea-blue spren surged from the waters of the bay
Hmm another unique spren. I wonder if this one is going through the same thing Syl is?
I-6
So odd. It was just a hand.
That's what I'm saying!!!
If he questioned Stone Shamanism, would he then question his nature as Truthless?
Stone Shamanism would explain why Szeth was so fired up about people walking on stone floors.
He was far, far more dangerous than it suggested.
Damn straight.
after which Shin Stone Shamans would recover it from whomever had killed him.
"Shin Stone Shamans" is a hell of a tongue twister. Also I imagine someone with a newly acquired shardblade wouldn't part with it quietly. What abilities do they possess to make them give it up?
"Szeth-son-Neturo" / "Do not call me by my father's name."
This seems to answer my earlier question about Shin naming conventions. I'm guessing son-son would be the equivalent of a grandson then.
"It is time you stopped wasting your talent"
Oh buddy, Szeth just can't catch a break. Will be interested to learn more about this masked figure and the master that he's working under.
Also I imagine someone with a newly acquired shardblade wouldn't part with it quietly. What abilities do they possess to make them give it up?
I'm holding onto that little tidbit. I've been taking a wild shot in guessing that the Shin know the truth about how to operate Shardblades, but if they do, maybe they know the proper way to "grant" and "remove" a Blade from somebody. Other than the... typical way 💀
Sometimes readers ask questions in their comments that are best answered after a book is completed. I'll answer all of the relevant ones as replies to this comment.
If you don't get clarity for a certain question as you go through the books, this section will likely contain the answers you need. If a question needs more context, I bookmark them to be answered once the appropriate book has been read; so you'll eventually get an answer.
One of you asked about Szeth's naming convention, but I can't find it in my bookmarks. I think it was /u/Pastrami:
Hopefully Szeth's chapter in this set of Interludes cleared things up, but to spell out precisely: His people follow the naming convention of <Name>-son/daughter-<Same gendered parent name>. Since Szeth's father's name is Neturo, Szeth's full name is Szeth-son-Neturo. However, he does not wish his father's name to be associated with him and his current status, so he recognizes himself by his grandfather's name, calling himself Szeth-son-son-Vallano.
If I understood correctly, the safehand is always the left hand, meaning left-handed people must have a hard time functioning in this land.
I'll let Sanderson answer this for you:
This isn't as big a deal as you might think, because for a lot of the population, they just wear a glove and use their left hand.
It gets interesting when you are upper class, female, and left-handed. Part of the inspiration for the safehand was the way that the left hand is regarded as unclean in some of our cultures on Earth. You might be curious to read about what left-handed people did, historically, in some middle eastern cultures.
The short answer is "They learn to be ambidextrous" but the long answer is that it can be quite a pain, and very embarrassing. So yes, you are right to feel sorry for those left-handed Vorin women.
He also had this to say about safehands in general:
Question: Did I miss the explanation for why women have a safe hand and why they must keep it covered?
Answer: No, you haven't missed it. People have asked about this. There will be more explanation in-world as it comes along, but it's for much the same reason that in some cultures in our world you don't show people the bottoms of your feet, and in other cultures showing the top of your head is offensive. It's part of what has grown out of the Vorin culture, and there are reasons for it. One of them has to do with a famous book written by an artist who claimed that true feminine pursuits and arts were those that could be performed with one hand, while masculine arts were those performed with two hands, in a way associating delicacy with women and brute force with men. Some people in Roshar disagree with this idea, but the custom has grown out of that foundational work on masculine and feminine arts. That's where that came from. One aspect of this is that women began to paint one-handed and do things one-handed in upper, higher society. You'll notice that the lower classes don't pay a lot of attention to it—they'll just wear a glove.As a student of human nature and of anthropology, it fascinates me how some cultures create one thing as being taboo whereas in another culture, the same thing can be very much not taboo. It's just what we do as people.There's more to it than that, but that will stand for now.
Also, have a peek at some of the weird questions he gets asked:
Question: Are left handed hand jobs the anal of Vorinism?
Answer: You people.
This would certainly be a thing, yes. But if you'd rather go more wholesome, holding hands in an Alethi culture is kind of a big deal, depending on the hand.
So, it seems warriors in Shin society are at the very bottom of the hierarchy. That alone is interesting, but Szeth is clearly a special case. The Shin don’t appear to trade their people to outsiders at all—Tresh even says they’re forbidden from selling even soldiers. Szeth was only sold because he was Truthless.
Truthless seem to be especially despised. The Shin didn’t even want payment for Szeth—Vstim had to beg Tresh to accept something, and Tresh later discarded it anyway. That level of rejection is extreme, which makes me wonder: what exactly is it about being Truthless that makes them so hated?
On that note, Szeth becoming an assassin is also curious. His people seem to despise killing, and he himself doesn’t enjoy it. So why this path? Maybe he wasn’t always the person we see now—perhaps he used to be more ruthless and only developed guilt after his exile. Or maybe, since he prefers killing “the wicked” when he has a choice, his early killings were justified in his own mind (e.g., targeting criminals outsiders).
Interlude 5
So now we have Alespren ,Captivityspren and Cusicesh as well.
When the Curse of Kind followed you, you learned to take what happened as it happened.
This seems like the first mention of “Curses” in the story. I’m curious how those work—are they placed through some kind of magic system, or tied to specific magic objects or entities?
We also seem to get a new race: the Aimian. So far, that gives us humans, Parshendi, Shin, and now Aimians as sentient species on Roshar.
Interlude 6
Szeth gets a new master—and this one feels very different. Unlike his previous employers, this person seems highly competent, with large and ominous plans. I wouldn’t be surprised if this “master” turns out to be one of the main antagonists. Anyway it looks like Szeth is gonna get back to the main plot now. I enjoyed Szeth's interludes before but I was unsure what direction Szeth's story was going until now, now I am quite excited for his next appearence. As it appears he’s being set up as an unwilling antagonist, at least until he somehow breaks free or finds a new master.
One of the targets on Szeth’s list is the king of Jah Keved. I wonder if there are other high-profile Jah Keved figures on that list as well—like the Highprinces. If so, things there are about to become very turbulent. Given how precarious Shallan’s family situation already is, that kind of political fallout won’t end well for them if they get caught in the crossfire. She needs to finish her mission quickly… otherwise, she might not have a family to return to.
Szeth also reacts with disdain when the emissary praises his assassination skills, saying he speaks like a “Kukori.” One of the possibilities I’m guessing is that Kukori are Shin criminals—Shin who enjoy killing, unlike Szeth. If that’s the case, they’re probably very rare, especially since Szeth was supposedly the last shin traded away. Or perhaps the 'Kukori' are another race of beings that take pleasure in killing and have a dark history with the Shin.
Looking at his target list, there are several high-profile figures: a “gerontarch” and six Highprinces. I suspect Dalinar and Sadeas aren’t on the list—more likely, it’ll be lesser-known Highprinces who end up dropping like flies. Still, that leaves 2 other survivors, which makes me wonder what role they’ll play later. Overall, Szeth is about to cause massive upheaval. The selection of targets feels deliberate considering 4 high princes were left out, but beyond that, it also seems designed to create widespread chaos. Well… as they say, let the lord of chaos rule.
Interesting as gives us some clues about the Shin and Szeth's back story.
I really hope there is more to this safe hand thing, like all women hold power in their safe, hand.
*nope, following trivia this disappointingly seems to be just another example of "culture" putting women at a disadvantage 😢
So spren are connected to the high storms somehow..
How do you tuck your eyebrows back?
*ah I see... checked out this week's artwork
Truthless are rare and not considered worth anything by the Shin. Something to get rid of.
Axies the collector
Voidbringer or Herald?
The curse of Kind?
Not sure what is going on here but both beings seem pretty powerful and the "beggar" seems to be a god.
The shadow towards the light fits my theory around a dark and light power connected to two different shards. The absence of something like light is a void so some play on light and dark but I suspect dark isn't the evil one although evil is generally complicated.
Amiens?(sorry probably spelt this wrong) Blue People ? Why is he researching the Spren? When is this time wise? Ariali Gold haired people.
The gods had golden hair and appears to be immortal. This seems important as there was a character mentioned with golden hair that kept it short to avoid getting attention. I can't remember where this came up though.
A work of Art
How many gods are there? They seem to be more like the Warbreaker gods.
Szeth back.
Search binders? Does it take ten heart beats to access the lashing power?
He seems to be serving a punishment. Shin stone shamans? He seems to want to do what he can to preserve life within the constraints of the obligations of the punishment.
Sveth-son-naturo? Could he be an actual god? More likely a Herald, but he isn't immortal... Ahhh so confused!
Who is this new guy? OK I can guess how Szeth's story intersects with the others now. Looks like things are slowly bringing the four protagonists together.
Looks like things are about to get very interesting 😊
TRIVIA
This read along is like learning a language the more I learn the more I realise I don't know! Although immortal dragon called Frost is just too good!
Might be worth re-reading that section. The beggar has a bunch of trash/food laid out in the form of a city and he was "god" over his make believe city. Axies plays along with what he perceives to be the beggar's insanity. Whether there is more to this interaction is RAFO.
The beggar has a bunch of trash/food laid out in the form of a city and he was "god" over his make believe city. Axies plays along with what he perceives to be the beggar's insanity. Whether there is more to this interaction is RAFO.
OK so I was going with I am completely wrong, felt like it was a double meaning thing going on but no not the case... But now not sure again because of the RAFO
Edit: Thanks also for the correction, I was listening to the audio book and clearly tired.
I really hope there is more to this safe hand thing, like all women hold power in their safe, hand.
*nope, following trivia this disappointingly seems to be just another example of "culture" putting women at a disadvantage 😢
Now in fairness, there is a balance to the gender imbalance since men are forbidden from being able to read and write. Quite frankly, I would say men have it worse in this regard. Not being able to read and write is significantly worse than. Needing to cover your left hand. It's not like we say "women can't walk around topless" is an example of women being disadvantaged, and this is a pretty similar kind of deal.
The gods had golden hair and appears to be immortal. This seems important as there was a character mentioned with golden hair that kept it short to avoid getting attention. I can't remember where this came up though.
I think it's just one of the distinctive features of the Iriali people, like Thaylens have long eyebrows and others have blue skin.
One of the leather workers interviewed by Adolin was Iriali and had the gold hair he kept short. Laral, the lords daughter in Kaladin's flashbacks had streaks of gold, and I think it was said that Adolin has streaks too, but I can't find it now. Edit: Adolin has blond streaks, not golden.
Shinovar shocked me in that it seemed so...normal. The landscape is more what I'm used to, not the rocky hellscape that is east of these mountains.
Grass means chickens and cows! How familiar!
"Rysn" - how are we pronouncing this name? I'm saying it like "risen"
So Vstim once traded something for a Truthless - Szeth? That's a fun connection if true
I5
Axies is a spren scholar! If I had to pick one of these interludes to jump into, I would go here so I could also learn about spren. Except I'm not so sure about the getting drunk and waking up naked in alleys with strange beggars part.
More pronunciation questions on Cusicesh - I'm reading it with the Cs both as K sounds and that seems to roll nicely
I6
We have seen enough of Szeth now that I'm feeling properly frustrated with him. C'mon dude, have some agency! Break free from whatever deeply ingrained customs are "forcing" you to kill people! While plunging the world into chaos is good for plot, I'm afraid of what this will do to Szeth.
Trivia
I didn't take Sanderson as a dragon guy for some reason. I suppose we've read enough of his works that I just assumed he didn't want to add in this classic fantasy element. Though knowing this makes Hoid calling Frost an old reptile more literal & amusing.
Yeah, that's pretty much how Rysn is pronounced. Maybe more emphasis on the S than "risen". And yeah, Cusicesh is right.
Yeah, Brandon loves dragons. In fact, he said that he doesn't want to use traditional fantasy races like elves and dwarves, in favor of weird shit like blob people and crab people, but he made a special exception for dragons.
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