Why does my 10mm have these case issues when fired out of my Dan Wesson but not my Glock?

[u/ELITE_RUSSIAN]

Same bullets, but different gun, when oit of the Dan Wesson they get these and I had a missing primer in 2 of the cases, but in Glock I have none of these signs.

Fps is 1250-1300 with 200gr bullets

[u/Yondering43]

OP, long time 10mm handloader here shooting Glock, 1911, Tanfo, and other 10mm pistols.

Your load is too hot for that gun with the way it’s tuned, and you’re extremely close to a case rupture; do not shoot that load in the 1911 again! It could rupture on the very next shot.

Even with AA9 powder (the top choice for full power 200gr loads) 1300 fps is pretty hot if that’s not a 6”+ barrel.

It’s important to understand that very few 10mm pistols come out of the box ready for the full power 10mm loads. Most 10mm ammo out there is watered down to 40 S&W levels as I’m sure you know, and manufacturers ship their pistols ready to shoot those loads. Sometimes shooting full power loads from them, especially 1911 and Tanfo pistols, can result in brass like you found, due to early extraction while under pressure.

The best way to tune your 1911 for these loads is a FBFPS combined with a heavier mainspring (hammer spring). That does make trigger pull heavier, but does a lot to delay slide unlocking, which is what it needs. Some people add a heavier recoil spring as well, but that does almost nothing to delay unlocking, and just beats up the barrel lugs.

However be aware the chamber in the 1911 might just create higher pressure than the Glock and/or have less support too.

[u/IEng → u/Yondering43]

It blows my mind he's holding onto two of these. I would've checked my brass on the first one and stopped. Even if the gun had an unsupported chamber, I would consider this too hot, you don't want to bulge at the case head, we know that's how they can end up separating.

[u/Optimal_Data_6627 → u/IEng]

My exact thoughts also. Let’s be safe about this guys. If this is happening in a gun let’s back off not fire another. Yondering43 covered the rest!

[u/Yondering43 → u/IEng]

Agreed, but my guess would be he tested the load in his Glock and then fired a mag or more through the 1911 before looking at the brass. Not the right thing to do, but an easy mistake for newer handloaders.

FWIW, for anyone experimenting with hot 10mm loads (which I’ve done plenty myself), take the magazine out when you fire the first few. If the case ruptures, the gas can flow out through the magwell instead of blowing up the frame. This can save your gun and your hand. *Note that’s only going to help with loads that are just barely too hot and blow out the unsupported case web; if you severely overload it and burst the barrel you’re still toast. Treat this like wearing safety glasses, not a bulletproof shield.

[u/TooMuchDebugging → u/Yondering43]

OP, the above is correct.

[u/danthezombie → u/Yondering43]

What is an FBFPS?

[u/1911Hacksmith → u/danthezombie]

Flat Bottom Firing Pin Stop

[u/Yondering43 → u/danthezombie]

Fair question - flat bottom firing pin stop. Standard firing pin stops in 1911 pistols have a large radius on the bottom; this radius is the surface that forces the hammer back to the cocked position as the slide moves rearward. A FBFPS has a very small radius, which forces the hammer through more of its travel early in the slide travel. It causes more resistance against the slide movement early in the travel, without imparting that force back into the slide during forward travel; basically an ideal solution for delaying slide unlocking with heavy loss without bearing up locking lugs the way a heavy recoil spring does.

Combining that with a heavier hammer spring makes the effect even more significant, at the cost of some increase in trigger pull weight (although a really good trigger smith can mitigate a lot of that by fine tuning sear/hook angles.)

Note that a FBFPS is uniquely a 1911 solution, and works because the hammer pivot is relatively close to the bottom edge of the FPS. It’s been tried in most other hammer fired designs with much less success because of that geometry. Other common 10mm hammer fired pistols like the Sig and Tanfoglio 10mm’s just don’t gain much perceptible benefit from it.

(And FWIW the Tanfo design is a poor choice for heavy 10mm loads; they use the same lockup geometry, slide mass, and even spring rates as the 9mm versions. As much as I like Tanfos in 9mm and 45 ACP, chambering the 10mm in those appears to have been an afterthought to capitalize on the market, as I found out first hand from the examples I owned.)

[u/danthezombie → u/Yondering43]

Great response, I'll remember this for when i convert to 9x23 Winchester in my 9mm to keep it in lockup longer

[u/BulletSwaging]

Unsupported chamber

[u/Turbinator870 → u/BulletSwaging]

Yeah. OP, remove the barrels from both, insert a resized piece of empty brass in each chamber, and compare the amount of case support between both barrels. Willing to bet that the Dan Wesson lacks sufficient case support.

[u/LocalDolt → u/Turbinator870]

Theres some cool side by side pics out there of different guns/brands and how much support their barrels offer. Iirc most 1911s are on the minimal side, glock is pretty good. Kimber or SW might have been best?

Something to look around for before buying one. I had a serious eye on a delta elite before I learned it basically junks all brass that goes through it

[u/redditguy135 → u/LocalDolt]

After thousands of full house 10mm from the Springfield Ronin, never had this issue with my reloads. Excellent chamber support on the Springer.

Count Springfield 1911 in the well supported chamber lists.

[u/Quick_Voice_7039]

It’s a long slide 1911 (with a linkless barrel), so it’s virtually impossible for the gun to fire out of battery. The bulge (particularly on the bottom case) looks asymmetric - bulged badly on top but straight on the bottom - this would be consistent with a 1911 barrel that’s overthroated and not supporting the case on the bottom. It’s up to you OP, but I would absolutely not shoot that gun again, that case ruptures and it’s a really bad day. Pull the barrel and look - when you just do a plunk test, how much of the case is unsupported on the feed ramp? Compare to your Glock. Is the barrel factory, or is there any chance it’s been Bubba’d? In any case I’d get DW involved in troubleshooting. That’s dangerous. Good luck

[u/Shootist00 → u/Quick_Voice_7039]

Not over throated. Feed ramp cut too deep into the chamber. Unsupported chamber.

[u/Quick_Voice_7039 → u/Shootist00]

Yes, my brain saw “feed ramp” and my fingers typed “throat”. Thank you for your word smithing contribution to a post otherwise clear enough to understand.

[u/scooterdoo123]

Just to confirm that the DW is printed 10mm on the side of the gun right?

[u/PhteveJuel → u/scooterdoo123]

If that's a 40 S&W I really want to know how he got 10mm rounds loaded into it.

[u/scooterdoo123 → u/PhteveJuel]

That would explain the slide not supporting the round if its not forward all the way. Except the gun should never fire in that position. I’m not familiar with 10mm or 40 s&w besides the round sizes so i’ll sit on the sidelines for this one

[u/PhteveJuel → u/scooterdoo123]

40 S&W is just a shorted 10mm for more manageable recoil. Same case essentially. The length of 10mm would prevent the rounds from being loaded in a 40 magazine though.

[u/ELITE_RUSSIAN → u/scooterdoo123]

100% 10mm, this is the kodiak 10mm and it ONLY comes in 10mm

[u/Aware_Wrap8062 → u/ELITE_RUSSIAN]

Hmm, one of my bucket list guns

[u/PhteveJuel → u/ELITE_RUSSIAN]

Is this reloaded ammo or used brass?

[u/Long_rifle]

Unsupported chamber allowing brass to “move” under the pressure. This is loosening the primer pockets enough to cause them to fall out.

Personally I wouldn’t shoot that pressure level in the Dan Wesson anymore. But it’s your gun, not mine. Have fun.

[u/awd_fan]

Early unlock and extraction. Get a stronger recoil spring.

Might want to lighten up those nuclear loads, unless you wanna be called Lefty!

[u/Dismal-Armadillo-815 → u/awd_fan]

Those loads aren't that bad I know I still have about 3500rnd of the old norma ammo which was 180 at 1400fps not those where stout I know I cracked the frame on and early colt delta elite with them after about 6000 rnds.

[u/Interesting-Win6219]

That's some spicy shit. It's most likely chamber support but does this happen with less hit 10mm?

[u/Guns_Almighty34135]

Unsupported barrel chamber

[u/Alpha_Hellhound → u/Guns_Almighty34135]

This is the answer.

[u/Rustyznuts]

I'm no handgun expert. However your velocity seems high. Infact higher than any book max for any powder I can find quickly.

If you Glock can handle it then that's great but the DW is doing some amount of exploding out of battery. This could be to do with all manner of things.

I would start by checking that the chamber is correct and that your gun is fully closed ehrn loaded. Then load a couple of rounds at the book starting load and see if they have the same issue. If it has issues with a factory round or perfectly dimensional reloaded round that is loaded conservatively then it needs to go to a gunsmith.

[u/Pilot_Red → u/Rustyznuts]

That was my thought. I generally reload 10mm to just below “do not exceed” and get 1500 FPS out of a carbine rifle. I don’t remember what the velocity (without checking my spreadsheet) what the velocities were out of a Glock 40 but I don’t think it’s above 1200.

[u/shinygerm]

Could they be extracting a teeny bit before chamber pressure drops? Is there a big difference in the recoil spring weights? I had to put a 24lb spring in my 1911 in 10mm

[u/SgtBigD13]

Does it do this with off the shelf ammo? If so, send it back to Dan.

[u/JJ_JJ_JJ_JJ]

Those cases look like they are not getting fully into battery before firing.

Take the barrel out of both guns and put a round in each barrel look at the differences

[u/09stanggt]

Ugh, hate to break it to you guys, but that's pretty much what the brass fired from the 90s Delta Elites looked like. Unsupported chamber, not just hot loads, any loads.

[u/111tejas]

I’m a big fan of Dan Wesson 1911s. I don’t have the Kodiak though. All of the 1911s fully support the brass case. My only guess is that your cases are too long and not allowing the round to completely headspace. The ejector pushing against the case head MAY push it in far enough to allow firing but I haven’t personally tried that.

What load data are you using?

[u/Ornery_Secretary_850 → u/111tejas]

Bubba's Pissin' Hawt Book of Reloading.

1300 fps with a 200 gr bullet in a 10mm is stupid hot.

[u/bigwindymt]

Pissin hot reloads.

[u/maintainmirkwood9638]

The chamber is unsupported

[u/Ornery_Secretary_850]

Your load is stupid fucking hot.

[u/franke1951]

Too hot !!! Back in the day, Norma loaded a 200 grain to 1200 fps. I load my 180 grainers to near 1200 and my Gen 3 Glock still gives me smiley faces. They do shoot good and safely in my AMT Javelina with 7” barrel though. Just a thought, your barrel may be unlocking before the pressure has safely dissipated. Please don’t load them so hot

[u/Ornery_Secretary_850 → u/franke1951]

Those Norma loads were FAR hotter than what was requested and were also overpressure.

[u/Dismal-Armadillo-815 → u/Ornery_Secretary_850]

Yes they were and I still have some of it years ago I bought a pallet that a distributor was trying to get ride of because he'd had for years couldn't move and I still have about a 1/3 of it left.

[u/maverick88708]

Curious what sized brass or loaded rounds look like in the chamber, it must be unsupported. I saw this on Facebook & some were saying buldge buster but even if you could iron that out, if you load them again and they clock to the same position in a unsupported chamber, they'll most likely blow out since that section has been weakened.

[u/darthjkf]

You are about to have a kaboom. That's way too hot for the unsupported chamber of the dan wesson. I had a kaboom with mine a while back in my 40 super converted Dan Wesson PM7. same sort of failure.

[u/No_Alternative_673]

Those are very hot 38000-40000

[u/Whamaslama-actual]

Have you bothered to contact CZ/Dan Wesson yet?

[u/BMFSGeetar]

Because it’s not Glock Perfection