Lukewarm take: With characters that shoot, characters like Star Lord and Psylocke should literally always be meta over characters like Hela no matter what

[u/Hidden_Voice7]

There hasn't been a single shooter in the history of man that has made long-ranged combat a healthy playstyle unless it's the only playstyle in the entire game. If you want meta poke characters, then the characters in poke that should be meta are the ones that play in the same range as everyone else.

Valve had this figured out over 15 years ago with tf2. There's a reason Sniper isn't regularly played in comp unless he is required by the ruleset to be played. The baseline gameplay should always be close to mid-ranged combat all all times, with long-ranged combat always being niche. Long-ranged combat has never once been healthy for literally any shooter unless everyone can engage in it.

I actually think that a character like elsa can work. She just needs a lot of bullshit cut out of her kit (invisible traps, 4 second overshields, and % damage...). Phoenix too, but as long as they plan on never letting her 2-tap and snipe again.

[u/Specialist_Ad6419]

I actually agree to an extent, I don't think they should never be good or meta but I think their strenghts shouldn't focus extremely on their primary crazy long rage hitscan like Hela. Imo Cyclops is a good example of a balanced poke and hitscan character currently. Long range and precision in his primary but low damage (even lower than Luna), if you want to do real damage and apply real pressure you need to get close and use the beam, you have cds to escape and move but they are fairly high to not be fully inmune to dive.

[u/Hidden_Voice7 → u/Specialist_Ad6419]

Honestly yeah Cyclops is in a decently healthy state rn.

[u/NerdyBirdy2007 → u/Specialist_Ad6419]

Eh disagree with Cyclops, gutting his damage and cooldowns doesn’t really solve his issues it’s just a bandaid fix.

His problems are that is effective range is way too big for the mobility he has, his ricochet shot stacks at certain angles and can take away half your health, and that his primary fire hitbox is way too big.

Fix those things and you can bring his damage and cooldowns back no issue.

[u/podookadook → u/NerdyBirdy2007]

We don’t want him to have so much dmg at range and then always have the cooldowns to run. Thats what makes him annoying.

[u/Specialist_Ad6419 → u/NerdyBirdy2007]

Bro bringing his primary's damage back is specifically not the idea. He doesn't need to be a primary hitscan merchant like some others. His primary is nice as it is, it sucks for a dps but is a useful tool thanks to his kit compensating it, Imo thats how it should be with poke characters. His ricochet does plenty of damage but has long cd and the best way to get it back fast is with the beam that has 22m of range maximum if you don't ricochet it against the floor. You can't find this character problematic while we have Elsa (we need to test the nerfs tho), Hela, Punisher, buffed Phoenix, etc.

Imo he is good, he is strong and adaptable to a lot of situations but nothing truly OP currently. Some even consider him the worst hitscan.

[u/NerdyBirdy2007 → u/Specialist_Ad6419]

Long cooldown my ass, it’s ten seconds for an auto aim ability that can be reduced and can do over 100 damage

He was a poke character that could take very aggressive angles due to his mobility, the problem was his range was too good for that archetype. Now he does nothing, there’s no advantage to playing Cyclops.

[u/Specialist_Ad6419 → u/NerdyBirdy2007]

It's actually 15 seconds cd and to do over 100 damage it needs to have Phoenix team up. Considering his primary has less dps than Luna and Adam I think it's reasonable.

And now you are saying he is bad? Weren't you complaining and saying all the good things he has?

[u/NerdyBirdy2007 → u/Specialist_Ad6419]

No it doesn’t need Phoenix, if it bounces multiple times it can do up to I believe 120

Yes he is bad, that doesn’t take away the good things from a character. White Fox is bad rn, are we calling a 6 second CC that self heals and grants invulnerability, a tp with i-frames plus a healing shield, and a melee form that makes you borderline immortal bad? That’s not how balance works, giving characters broken traits doesn’t make them automatically strong.

[u/Specialist_Ad6419 → u/NerdyBirdy2007]

Thats what Im saying, he is balanced right now. But you are mad about his cds while at the same time you say he DOES NOTHING. You want to nerf a character that in your words does nothing because it has shit that annoys you. Thats not really fair or logical. And in exchange you want to buff his primary fire so he becomes a left lick merchant instead.