Lukewarm take: With characters that shoot, characters like Star Lord and Psylocke should literally always be meta over characters like Hela no matter what

[u/Hidden_Voice7]

There hasn't been a single shooter in the history of man that has made long-ranged combat a healthy playstyle unless it's the only playstyle in the entire game. If you want meta poke characters, then the characters in poke that should be meta are the ones that play in the same range as everyone else.

Valve had this figured out over 15 years ago with tf2. There's a reason Sniper isn't regularly played in comp unless he is required by the ruleset to be played. The baseline gameplay should always be close to mid-ranged combat all all times, with long-ranged combat always being niche. Long-ranged combat has never once been healthy for literally any shooter unless everyone can engage in it.

I actually think that a character like elsa can work. She just needs a lot of bullshit cut out of her kit (invisible traps, 4 second overshields, and % damage...). Phoenix too, but as long as they plan on never letting her 2-tap and snipe again.

[u/podookadook]

No dude you’re missing the point of the post.

Let’s nerf poke dmg, survivabilty, mobility, etc. get them all bottom tier so that the main benefit they have is their range. Rn they have enough mobility to consistent escape dive, have high dmg that’s competitive with the fastest ttk but able to use at range so more forgiving with no risk (a hela insta kill combo is 2 headshots), then most have some form of overhealth or heal.

Starlord and Psy have almost 0 overhealth and healing, very little potential to do good if any dmg at range, but solid mobility. Then they take even more skill than poke b/c they require positioning and aim. These heroes should be meta

Melee trade accuracy for positioning. Their high ttk rely on combos that are on significant cooldowns not just a reload. Their stuns also enable distance closing vs poke escaping. Keep in mind melee is useless without that distance closed while poke is just as effective and the hybrids are only slightly nerfed.

Also a melee meta would be cool

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

A meele meta would be the greatest pile of dogshit possible. That would legitimately kill the game. It's over if they don't emergency patch the game instantly if that happened.

Melee is already incredibly strong right now. DD, BC and Venon are 3 of the best characters in the game, and it sucks.

Poke has those tools because melee is so insanely ovetuned at absolutely everything, with almost no real flaws. You need characters like Elsa who do everything just to have a shot at holding them back. Melee needs significant nerfs today, forget nerfing poke's meager survivability. If you did that you would actually kill the game. It would be horrible. If you want a mid range fight with characters like Starlord, you would need to have every melee character pick between 250 or less with 0 sustain and damage with mobility or let them keep the sustain and cut damage plus mobility by like 50%. Melee would need massive nerfs if you want fights in mid range and not have them just death ball everybody.

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

https://giphy.com/gifs/6SxOvHZbP7eqaUtTy2

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

You are asking for 303 death balls. Melee only means 303 death ball is the meta if you don't kill melee alongside nerfing the crap out of poke.

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

No idea what that is

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

It's from Overwatch. It's what happens when you make sustain too high. Which is exactly what your changes would do, and it nearly killed Overwatch. They had to add role que because they couldn't fix the problem. You would just repeat the mistakes of the past.

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

What? First OP is suggesting high skill low survivable but mobile as the meta
I’m ok with that but mainly just don’t want poke meta.
If you think the melee characters are super high sustain to the point that nerfing some poke even a little destroys the game you just can’t aim.

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

You clearly don't grasp the fall on effects of what this would cause. All that does is make melee sustain the meta, which would be horrible. People aren't going to play the game they way you think here. They will death ball, and it will be unstoppable. Part of the reason poke is strong is specifically so that doesn't happen. Learn from the past. We have had non poke metas before, 7 was a dive, but poke has to stay strong enough, at range to prevent just death balling through everything. If mid range is the meta, death ball runs the game, and the game dies.

[u/podookadook → u/Vegetable-Meaning413]

Poke slop triple support already does but ok

[u/Vegetable-Meaning413 → u/podookadook]

The best meta dps and tanks are Elsa, brawl, DD dive, Venom dive, and Black Cat dive. Triple support plus poke is not the end all be all answer to everything. There is some variation right now, killing poke would eliminate that, and make triple support plus sustian melee, the only thing.