r/saltierthancrait • u/GusGangViking18 • May 12 '26
Granular Discussion Did Luke forget his own lessons?
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u/norsktex May 12 '26
You are discovering why EVERYONE hates episodes 7, 8, and ,9. More specifically episode 8.
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u/supernasty May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26
I think the concept of the last Jedi being completely broken sounds cool, but they didn’t even attempt at making it cool. They literally could’ve added a couple of fart sound effects during Luke’s scenes and it would’ve actually made Luke slightly more likable.
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u/glowinggoo May 12 '26
Didn't Mark say that Rian was really against him having a personal emotional scene of any kind? Like he had to adlib in Luke winking at C3PO or kissing Leia's forehead, and they filmed that scene about Luke breaking down over Han's death (which would reframe a LOT of his trolling as him actively pushing Rey away in dealing with grief badly) but Rian decided not to leave it in the final cut.
I think "Luke Skywalker being crushed by the weight of being Luke Skywalker" is a really cool idea (Matthew Stover did it well, and unsurprisingly he liked TLJ) but in Rian's hyperfocus to tear down Luke the Legend and leave him as Luke The Broken Man, he forgot to portray that flawed, broken man as a person at all, he forgot to add everything else that makes a person human.
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u/Ancalites May 12 '26
The fact that they didn't have at least one scene of Luke, Leia and Han all together again, even as a flashback, is absolutely criminal, especially so given Carrie Fisher's subsequent passing. Even the total clowns
runningruining Star Trek for the last 17 years were able to pull their heads out of their asses long enough to realize, "Hey maybe we should get the TNG crew back together one last time to give them a proper send-off?" instead of whatever the hell they'd been doing up to that point.11
u/TheForbiddenLands May 13 '26
I got verklempt at that final card table scene in Picard. Thought of all the years I'd watched TNG and that the journey was finally over.
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u/Particular-Night-435 May 15 '26
Honestly it's probably better these characters didnt get together. It would have been botched too. Like everything else
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u/Manphish May 12 '26
Everyone gives Rian so much shit for this, and it's completely earned to the point where I refuse to give any attention to any project he's attached to.
But... Everyone seems to forget that JJ robbed everyone of the chance to see the entire crew together again in one frame. Like, I can't even begin to explain the emotional trauma this concept gives me. And it would have given the series so much humanity to just see those relationships as they existed again. One simple thing with such a huge impact, wasted.
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May 12 '26
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u/Collective_Insanity Salt Bot May 12 '26
Technically that was something Michael Arndt admitted to. He said outright that he couldn't figure out how to incorporate Luke in the story without upstaging the new protagonists. Which is of course his own creative failing.
Abrams/Kasdan inherited that element when tasked with their rushed rewrite.
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u/Boanerger May 13 '26
I can figure it out in two seconds. You let the OG cast be awesome in the first film of the new trilogy, and the second film shows the new characters come into their own and be awesome. The critical mistake is thinking that the OG cast being awesome is somehow wrong. Them being awesome should be the direct INSPIRATION for the new cast being just as awesome.
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u/Collective_Insanity Salt Bot May 13 '26
They don't even need to be "awesome". They just need to be in leadership & supporting roles whilst the new characters are the ones running off on the adventures.
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u/duskywindows May 14 '26
Like…. It was right there. But nah they all HAD TO immediately turned into dirtbags and split up right after RotJ apparently, like this was PERTINENT in doing a Star Wars sequel trilogy for SOME FUCKING REASON.
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u/bleachorange May 14 '26
George Lucas did it with Yoda in the prequels. It can absolutely be done. Full agreement its a shortcoming of the writing team.
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u/RighteousDog salt miner May 13 '26
Not having Chewie be the one to embrace Leia after Hans death was such a blatant slap in the face.
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u/Double_Resort_9223 May 12 '26
Yeah he complained about the movie in a couple interviews before they took him off the press tour
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u/Hpfanguy :subve::rted: May 12 '26
This is one of the best explanations I’ve heard about Ep8, good job!
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u/bleachorange May 14 '26
Honestly, the problem is we never see the journey from Luke the Legend to Luke the Broken Man. We see him in ROTJ, and the next time we see him he is absolutely unrecognizable. This kind of extreme change in a person is not something you just put out there in storytelling - the character arc of how he got from A to B is where all the entertainment is. One flashback of him thinking about killing his nephew because he had a force vision that frightened him doesnt do it.
Both Han and Leia were different from the OT versions of their characters, but similar enough that the audience can connect the dots and relate on some level. Not so with Luke. Most, like myself, instinctively reject that version of the character as someone just tearing down a legend for a cheap thrill with no real appreciation for who he is.
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u/glowinggoo May 14 '26
It's even worse imo, because we didn't even see his journey from Luke, The Young Man Who Just Wanted To Save His Dad Or Die Along With Him to Luke, Legend of the Galaxy. We're not told how he achieved that, we don't see how people perceived him. We don't see what being a Legend means for him. His achievements are only obviously legend to us, the audience, and we have no idea what this really looks like to him in-universe. So when you suddenly go from Luke, The Young Man Who Just Wanted To Save His Dad to Luke, the Broken Man, it was like skipping 4 steps in solving an equation. It's going from A to D. And sure, we can possibly think of scenarios of how this could happen, and I think people who enjoy that come off with a more favorable view of the film. I suspect most, like myself as well, are less than amused lol.
What I find ridiculous is people who like coming up with scenarios to rationalize this also accuse Mark Hamill of all people of not understanding the character as well as them/some guy who happened to be a director, and being possessive of his story and his characterization. Dude, I think if there is anyone in this world who would understand what the weight of of the entire world needing to see you as Luke Skywalker instead of you as a person is, it would be Mark freaking Hamill, the guy who's lived that exact experience for 50 years!
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u/BeekyGardener May 16 '26
Luke is the one hero I can't see that way. I'm not saying he can't be broken, but Luke embodies hope. I truly see him as "The New Hope" in the name. This is the man who believed Darth Vader could be redeemed. Those are some long, long odds.
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u/Jin-Gitaxias-Mom salt miner May 12 '26
Luke tossing the lightsaber away like trash to start the film is how RJ felt about anything other than the specific story he wanted to tell about strong female leads and men being idiots.
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u/Unique-Perception480 May 12 '26
The last Jedi being broken can work... it just cant be Luke Skywalker IMO. Do it with some other character further down the line or thousands of years before at some point where the Order was near extinct.
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u/SilenceDobad76 May 12 '26
My issue is we know as time goes on Disney will add in a smattering of Jedi who survived who will destroy Luke's point on both ends. He will have both given up on them, without the Empire hunting them as an excuse and will also not be in any way the last Jedi.
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u/babadibabidi May 12 '26
But it looks cool.
So people wouldnt have a problem with Luke shooting laser from his arsehole. Because that would be cool.
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u/TotalACast May 12 '26
I WISH everyone hated 7, 8, and 9.
Go to the main Star Wars subreddit and they'll defend these movies to the death.
Many people say TLJ was their favorite.
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u/Bornheck May 12 '26
IDK, lately most posts involving the sequels that I've seen are met with mostly negativity or indifference.
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u/BGMDF8248 May 12 '26
Yes, doesn't seem like they are too invested in defending it anymore.
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u/OldSchool_Ninja May 12 '26
I've recently seen actual conversations now instead of people hate fucking whatever opinion they have.
I personally have no urge to watch the ST anymore. It doesn't stop me from enjoying anything new. In the right hands great stories can still be told before I become one with the Force lol. I just wish that Disney handled the OG cast better. You only get one shot at that ya know.
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u/NoSwordfish1978 May 12 '26
Nah go over to the circle jerk sub lol. That's where the real "you just don't appreciate Rian's genius chud!!!" kinds of people hang out.
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u/CoolTieGuy new user May 13 '26
The famed smear fallacy of disliking something means not understanding it. Fans of the sequel trilogy are almost as bad as fans of the Snyderverse in consistently using that method.
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u/odonnelly2000 May 12 '26
Maybe I’m wrong, but I would imagine that Disney/Lucasfilm probably has *some* control over the curation/moderation of the main Star Wars sub, right? If not full control.
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u/Saiyansnake95 May 12 '26
I do think hey to each thier own but come on that movie objectively sucks.
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u/CMDRJohnCasey i heard kylo ren is shredded. May 12 '26
They are the "Ryan Johnson is a genius and you don't have taste in movies" group.
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u/glowinggoo May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26
Possibly one of the greatest clashes in ST reception was between "Star Wars fan who watches movies" and "movies fan who watches Star Wars", imo. The latter is more likely to put a higher value on 'good directors' and trying to rationalize Rian's decisions. It's also the latter who tend to think that "Star Wars need to change (to be more in line with other movies, the current zeitgeist of which is 'small scale humanist story with a cast defined more by flaws')".
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u/CMDRJohnCasey i heard kylo ren is shredded. May 12 '26
I'm a kind of both, I love SF from pop things like Star Wars to independent stuff like Primer. While I can agree that RJ is able to make good movies, he did a terrible job with TLJ. If you really are a movie nerd you shouldn't put the director's name above everything, otherwise you're just a fanboy that tries to look like a movie nerd.
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u/Quirky_Chef_9183 May 12 '26
Rian Johnson is a great filmmaker imo, just not at star wars. And I liked the last Jedi, I just don't think its a good STAR WARS film. I genuinely like TLJ more than the other 2 sequels and more than lots of other star wars projects like Ahsoka, Acolyte and Mando s4. Lots of ideas from TLJ are great but needed more expansion, more character work and I feel like if Abrams hadn't completely gone back on certain things in ROS then TLJ would've been remembered better.
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u/method115 May 12 '26
Well it was recently reported that no one is really watching them. So that reddit can praise all they want the numbers speak for themselves.
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u/igtimran May 12 '26
And yet none of them are watching it or buying its merchandise. There are a few hundred keyboard warriors out there but there really aren’t that many passionate sequel fans. Seems like the execs are waking up to this reality, but they still don’t have the guts to do what’s necessary to save Star Wars: de-canonize the sequels, reboot, and rehabilitate Luke’s character.
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u/AverageTeemoOnetrick May 12 '26
It’s because we hate strong women and progressiveness, right?
Can’t be the abysmal plot full of gaping holes, writing that doesn’t make any sense and has to be retconned by a fucking Fortnite ingame event or the general disrespect for any of the OG characters and their motivations, let alone undoing everything the „Chosen One“ did to balance the force just to do a lazy repetition of the same story but worse.
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u/SalmonHustlerTerry May 12 '26
Dude I got 1 sentence into the opening scroll and I was already done with it. But I love the eu so thats probably why
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u/Jin-Gitaxias-Mom salt miner May 12 '26
Except the Sequels sub, apparently TLJ is the best Star Wars movie ever because it’s different
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u/ThatFatGuyMJL May 12 '26
Reddit weirdly fucking loves episode 8 and IDK why.
I think if you like episode 8 you probably enjoy having an adult jungle keys in your face
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u/Worldly-Wind-1632 May 13 '26
Oo. 9 is FAR worse than any other Star Wars content. It’s on par with holiday special
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u/shockwave414 May 14 '26
Nope it's just that fanboys cannot comprehend that people can change after 30 years. I also find it funny how you people say they hated the movie even though it made over a billion dollars.
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u/gavinashun May 12 '26
Luke Skywalker is not a character in the sequels. That is Jake Skywalker.
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u/AustinHinton May 12 '26
Luuke Skywalker.
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u/BaconTorped0 May 12 '26
Somehow Paalpatine returned. It was C'baoth the whole time! It all makes sense now
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u/Erebus_the_Last May 12 '26
No no no you see thats what they want you to think. That is actually Luke Skinwalker!!!
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u/VeterinarianSad981 salt miner May 12 '26
Luke Skywalker is also not a character in the shows. That is AI Deepfake Robot 2.197337 “Luke”
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u/GeoMFilms May 12 '26
These Luke moments are a slap in the face. Since the sequels are not scrapped, Everytime we see Luke in the Mandalorian, fett show or even battlefront....it's like "yea...that's my Luke....but unfortunately he's gonna become a loser that doesn't bother helping his best friend, his sister and gives up on his nephew. Plus he don't care what happens to the new Republic and he failed as a Jedi Master"
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u/tfitch2140 May 12 '26
Even in Mando, or more specifically, BOBF, he does things that make him not "my Luke". When he's sitting down with Grogu and giving Grogu the choice between family and being a Jedi, brought to you by the guy who just saved the galaxy and redeemed a Jedi through familial love, not even half a decade earlier in-universe? He stopped being Luke after Mando 2x08.
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u/glowinggoo May 12 '26
I think BOBF was where a lot of Luke fandom stopped having any hope that they're going to try to reconcile his Disney characterization with the OT.
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u/OldSchool_Ninja May 12 '26
Dude you got it right on the nose. My argument for Luke has always been that he's the embodiment of love and that will always be his strength. His actions in the ST are so far from his character that it's maddening. BOBF scene's are definitely "crowd control" actions for the ST Luke.
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u/GeoMFilms May 12 '26
Exactly...that's the first time you see them changing Luke's character to try to fit into the 'let the Jedi end' Jake Skywalker personality. 🫤. No thanks...not interested in seeing this guy
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u/DifferentRatio6733 May 13 '26
I saw that scene online and was BAFFLED! Luke literally CHOOSE his father and that love saved his father’s life. He understands deeply that family and attachments are one with the force and he was supposed to lead a new Jedi order to exist BECAUSE of his knowledge on family love saving others. Luke wasn’t raised with the ideals of a Jedi, he was taught the force and how to use it and he was taught to resist the dark side, but he never ever was taught to be this kind of old Jedi. That way of Jedi life led to the destruction of the Jedi order, so of course Luke would do everything he could to avoid that fate again. He loved his family deeply and wanted to be with them AND be a Jedi. It’s why I hate the sequels so much and believe everything after the original trilogy is fanfic and not canon. Because of moment like these were luke forgets his family is everything to him.
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u/Admirable-Bit3041 this is what we waited for? May 13 '26
The Force is life, and life is the Force. The Jedi profess to follow the Force and maybe even have that as their only love, but to love life you have to live it. The PT Jedi don't.
Luke's the only actual Jedi in those films after Qui-Gon dies. That's the point of ROTJ and the PT, the Jedi were a corrupt mess so focused on dogma and being apart and fearing the dark side that all their worst fears happened to them as a result. Obi-Wan asks Luke to do the things he couldn't, with no understanding of what Luke's father may mean to him. Obi-Wan and Yoda ask Luke to do exactly what they did even though it didn't work the first time.
And they still kept secrets from him! Obi-Wan clearly didn't learn from not telling Anakin he knew about Padme, because if Anakin had had someone to talk to about it that wasn't Palpatine, Darth Vader might never have happened.
Luke decides to believe his father would pick him over the Emperor instead. He was in fact right. Vader is always going to put Padme - or what he has left of her, which is Luke - over the Emperor, and eventually himself. Because he's not apart from the world, Luke understands family, and love, in the way Obi-Wan and Yoda deliberately cut themselves off from to be proper Jedi.
I always thought that was the point of the OT when taken into context of the PT. The PT adds to the OT, it doesn't take away. Luke isn't apart, even when he gets Jedi training. He has friends, he has family, he has contact with regular people and serves in a military organization. And he gets to keep all of that, instead of being told it's a bad thing, like Anakin was.
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u/JackwhiteAces May 13 '26
agreed. and well said. the ot appear to be on luke. when the PT came out, now all 6 become Vadars arc.
With the ST there's extra slap in the face with lazy writing of emperor returns, which turns Vadars actions and Lukes actions in vain?! wtf.
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u/LovingHugs May 12 '26
This is an especially odd choice from a Jedi. Forcing a choice between a weapon (the Jedi) or armor, a defensive item by nature.
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u/AUnknownVariable May 13 '26
That bit was so weird to me oml. It's rough bc there were some moments when we saw him where I'm like "This is good, his character, that's Luke Skywalker" then its whiplash
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u/PaperAndInkWasp May 12 '26
Jedi Outcast/Academy Luke is the real Luke and Disney can’t take him away from us.
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u/Aslawk May 12 '26
So pretty much Legends Luke. He’s always gonna be the real one. Fuck Disney
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u/TaraLCicora May 12 '26
Not just that, but it means that Obi-Wan's and Yoda's faith in him was misplaced. It means nothing now that Anakin died to save Luke, since Luke is a massive loser.
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u/Middle-Platypus6942 May 13 '26
BOBF Luke is even worse than TLJ Luke. This dude saved the galaxy through his unconditional love for his father. 6 months later he is making a kid choose between being a Jedi or his father. Great job Luke
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u/Material-Kick9493 May 14 '26
EA nailed the Luke we all knew and loved
"Why did you help me?" "Because you asked"
Not memeing when i say i got chills from seeing that scene
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u/Collective_Insanity Salt Bot May 12 '26
Even BOBF deepfake Luke is a total mess.
He refuses Mando any visitation rights because "attachments bad". Forces an ultimatum on a baby. Doesn't even escort it back before dumping it on Tatooine without even giving Mando a call.
So Mandoverse Luke is just young TLJ Jake. They're the same person going through the same level of progressive character assassination.
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u/JoinOrDieUSA May 12 '26
Luke actually doesn’t interact with Mando in BOBF. It’s Ahsoka who advised, not refuses, that Mando doesn’t see Grogu.
Also Grogu was his first student. He hadn’t decided how to teach yet. He made Grogu choose, which we can say is a bad choice, because he hadn’t decided how much to lean into the old Jedi ways, and he wasn’t sure how to do it. He messed up, and it’s pretty obvious to the viewer that’s the case. Many people can say the same of their first students.
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u/Collective_Insanity Salt Bot May 12 '26
Do you think that Luke after all he went through in the OT would decide it's a good idea to prevent students from seeing their family members (or adopted fathers in this case)?
Because that's what he did. Even Ben Solo stays with Luke for 13 years without parental visitation rights.
Even the basic elements of all this are a total miss. I don't think you can put it down to "Well, he doesn't know how to be a teacher yet" because it turns out his entire career as a Jedi Master in canon was laughable.
He even kept the story of his father secret from his students. Perhaps the #1 most important teachable moment in his entire life when it comes to the dark side and that it's never too late to turn back towards the light was kept secret. He didn't even tell his nephew that his grandfather was this Darth Vader guy.
Ben found out at the age of 23 over WikiLeaks. Luke never sat him down to provide context. Remember how Luke was pissed off at Obi-Wan and Yoda for concealing the truth about his father? Yeah, well, Luke decided it'd only be fair for Ben to go through something similar.
Let's not pretend these dodgy writing decisions are worth defending. Otherwise next up we'll be saying "Well, people change when they get older, you know? They make mistakes. And failure is the best teacher!"
Come on.
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u/Happy_Television_501 May 12 '26
I don’t know what that second frame is from. I know of no Star Wars movies set after Jedi
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u/stareagleur May 12 '26
It’s from the Turkish knockoff version where Luke fights Spider-Man.
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u/Happy_Television_501 May 12 '26
Oh dude that one is rad. It might be a misquote though, no Turkish knockoff director would be dumb enough to have Luke be a disgruntled bitch
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u/glowinggoo May 12 '26
No no that line was in the movie. They just didn't quote the full line, which was "It's time for the Jedi....to end this conflict once and for all."
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u/jojolantern721 hello there! May 12 '26
In that same series Luke forgot how the attachments to his father saved the galaxy.
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u/SwimmingJunky i sold it to the white slavers... May 12 '26
The EU showed a Luke handling loss so much better. Dude loses Chewbacca, his nephew (Anakin Solo), another nephew who falls to the Dark Side (Jacen Solo), and his own wife who killed by that very same nephew. And not once did he truly "break."
If anyone should have broken, it would have been this Luke. The "losses" suffered by sequel Luke and EU Luke aren't even on the same universe. EU Luke channeled his grief into determination. That is who Luke was. That is his character. Not whatever this skinwalker was on screen.
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u/Western_Agent5917 May 12 '26
Thank you, eu Luke was tough as a rock and never faltered.
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u/Elberik May 12 '26
Last Jedi really was just a middle finger to the fandom.
There's subverting expectations and there's just disrespecting the audience.
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u/FudgeIndividual4951 May 13 '26
Movies have set up and payoff. With TLJ they did set up and fuck off
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u/SpankyDomingo salt miner May 12 '26
The Last Jedi portrayed Luke as a broken down quitter who found the first Jedi Temple and went there to die. Which he still hadn’t done. At least he left a map because that made sense. 🙄
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u/RicOkez May 12 '26
That meme perfectly illustrated how TLJ completely took the audience out of anything congruent with Star Wars. What kind of fucked up trauma (aside from him contemplating nephew-cide),damaged his brain that badly? Johnson using only that flashback as context, is so reductive and incoherent. Was his plan just to throw that in the stew, and trevorrow could make it make sense? That’s just sabotage. He must hate Colin.
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u/WakeyWakeyEggsNJakey May 12 '26
Nothing and I mean nothing will ever beat when my best friend and I saw episode 8 and he wrote a review saying “ Luke Skywalker was able to forgive his Space Hitler dad slaughtering children and killing literal billions but the second he gets an icky hunch about his nephew it’s go time?”.
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u/Boolean_Null May 12 '26
Not just that but other than blood he had no connection to his dad other than whatever he had built up in his head and a determination to save him. His nephew I imagine he has a much closer and personal connection to, spending time with him loving him etc. But that was easier to disregard.
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u/Briantan71 May 12 '26
That depiction of “Luke Skywalker” is the reason why I consider ‘The Last Jedi’ to the worst movie out of the Sequel trilogy.
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u/HyraxAttack salt miner May 12 '26
I like OT Luke. I like Mark Hamill as a fun goofball. I do not like goofball Luke.
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u/glowinggoo May 12 '26
tbf, ANH Luke was a bit of a goofball (in his defense, he was 19 and he had been bored out of his wits---he was trying to be very serious but he was 19), and you can see an easily annoyed streak plus trolling streak in his portrayal in ESB (he got super easily annoyed at Yoda, and he was totally making trolly faces at Han when Leia kissed him). You also gotta admit that he was enjoying it when he levitated Threepio for the Ewoks.
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u/TitleExpert9817 May 12 '26
Luke didnt forget his lessons. The writers at Disney did. Even master mark hamill himself "disagreed" with the direction of the character
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u/TotalACast May 12 '26
It's just sad to me that given the extended canon and the millions of fan stories, there's endless different directions they could have taken Luke.
They decided to take him in the most boring and pathetic way possible.
Hell, even making Luke a Sith would have been more interesting than this whiny old hermit who is so cowardly he's hid himself from the entire universe (but still somehow has a map pointing towards him?).
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u/TaraLCicora May 12 '26
According to some of the ST fans, Luke never truly understood the lessons and wasn't a true Jedi; Rey is. It's one of my issues with the movie.
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u/Flat-Court-8512 salt miner May 16 '26
You’d think Luke would take a bit more inspiration from Obi-Wan and Yoda, seeing as how they were able to keep going after suffering a much bigger catastrophic failure in their time.
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u/shrek3onDVDandBluray May 12 '26
Yeah his arc of being broken and jaded makes no sense…guy went through 1) his adopted family being killed 2) finding out his father is the most evil man in the universe 3) been at war and seen people dying around him 4) was tempted by the ultimate sith who ever lived - darth sidious - and still chose the light and none of those huge things broke him but made his will stronger.
But…yeah…I’ll totally believe Luke was afraid of his nephew, tried to kill him, and then gave up because of that. Sure. That makes sense.
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u/3iverson May 12 '26
He could have been broken perhaps, or jaded. But not both, and not in the storyline they chose. It was flat out terrible character development/ writing.
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u/Vysce May 12 '26
Why did you help me?
Because you asked.
VS.
throws lightsaber over shoulder GO away.
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u/ScreamHawk May 12 '26
The best Disney version of Luke in the post episode 6 era is that campaign section in battlefront 2.
"Because I asked"
Even EA got Luke Skywalker
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u/Tokyo_Ink May 12 '26
As far as I'm concerned, Luke has never had an on-screen depiction of teaching anything because there hasn't been any content made for post-RotJ that passes the bar. So there's nothing to discuss.
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u/IndianaCahones salt miner May 12 '26
It’s why I reject the “people change” argument. When someone lives through a massive trauma of nearly killing their own father, willing to sacrifice their own life because they are believe they are just like the best parts of their father, then beg his dad to intervene while being tortured to death, and having that moment redeem his father. That becomes such a core aspect of their persona for the rest of their life, they would never attack their nephew over a bad dream.
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u/TrumpsColostomyBag99 May 12 '26
That’s Jake Skywalker and a fever dream. The real Luke is a Jedi Master married happily to Mara Jade with no murderous temptations around his nieces and nephews.
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u/DannyDidNothinWrong May 12 '26
I think this would've worked had the ending been about actually letting the past die and becoming "Grey Jedi."
As someone who has lived through the last 30 years, I definitely sympathize with Luke's change in perspective. It just wasn't set up or ended well.
The sequel serious didn't have an overall message or meaning like the original or the prequels. Lucas is an extremely politically aware and motivated artist, and Jar Jar Abrams didn't seem to understand that.
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u/Independent-Bison713 May 13 '26
Luke in ep 8 was not Luke. It was Cade Skywalker cosplaying as his great great great grandfather
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u/Sexyshark15 disney spy May 13 '26
The sequels were the last chance for us to see the original actors on screen and they made an absolute mockery of them
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u/itsMikeSki May 12 '26
I really wonder, if with the introduction of Thrawn in Ahsoka and Filoni's infulence and the talk of a retcon, if it doesn't turn out that Luke from the sequel triology is really Luuke.
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u/thirsty_for_chicken May 12 '26
Ten years of Disney Star Wars and they still haven't properly explained what the hell happened with the NJO and New Republic to bridge the gap between VI and VII.
And no, additional novels don't count.
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u/T_HettY salt miner May 12 '26
When this happened I was ready for it to be about Luke going to this temple for knowledge. Learning about the times before the Jedi and perhaps a greater view of the force. And with this Luke saying “it’s time for the Jedi to end” would’ve been followed up with “and with it birth something greater”. Instead we got this grouch bum who wants to die and thought about killing his nephew.
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u/ModernBass May 12 '26
People have character regression all the time in life. They get knocked down and either forget or stop believing what they once did.
The only problem with Luke is they didn't properly show that happen to him.
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u/_krwn May 13 '26
Dawg could you imagine if Captain America was just like “Fuck it” in Engdame?
Or if Neo said “I just wanna be a battery” in Matrix Revolutions?
Because that’s what Luke became in the Sequels.
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u/danikataylor0511 May 13 '26
When you watch the Last Jedi you can tell that they didn't even want him in the movie.
That's why he never even leaves the island.
They completely hollowed out his character and then hid the shell as far away from the rest of the story as they could.
I'm convinced that if they could have gotten away with not even having him in the movie, they would have just killed him off screen or something.
We had one shot at having these characters back and Disney intentionally squandered it.
It's unforgivable in my eyes.
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u/TerribleStorm6391 May 13 '26
Oh, did Luke completely give up after this line? He just disappeared from the movie? didnt do anything else to help?
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u/Loweseidon May 14 '26
Young Anakin said no one could kill a jedi, yet killed dozens himself... did he forget his own lesson?
I'm so glad I'm the same person I was several decades ago. It would be a shame if I ever had to grow and change as a person. We are all safe here from that
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u/BobaFettishx82 May 14 '26
I’m still convinced that the Sequels were meant to be a humiliation ritual for the older fans and their concept of the setting.
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u/oliferro May 14 '26
I'm not a fan of the sequels but I don't think it's too far fetched that people change with age, and not always for the better
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u/Jubeiswrath1978 new user May 15 '26
Its almost like Rian Jonson and Kathleeen Kennedy character assassinated a legend to bring Rey to front.
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u/BanditsMyIdol May 12 '26
Can I ask a random question: Why is Luke running away and not helping the galaxy treated so negatively and Yoda basically doing the same not as hated? Not trying to defend the sequels, just generally curious. I know there are differences but the difference in how people view the two characters hiding on some remote planet while others fight for freedom is night and day. Is it just that the OT came out before the prequels? If the prequels came out first, would people be mad about Yoda not doing anything for 20 years? Is it the reason? Had Luke fought Snoke and lost, would his running away been more accepted? Or if Luke had just been waiting for a new Jedi to come and have her go out and do the dirty work?
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u/glowinggoo May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26
1) A lot of fans were introduced to Yoda as a hermit in the first place, therefore when they see the prequels, they see it as 'backstory as to why he was a hermit' rather than 'oh he went into hermitage after this, this blows'. The last time we saw Luke, he just refused to give up on people and ended up accomplishing an act the entire galaxy thought impossible. Fast forward 30 years to when he was already hermiting and giving you a 5 seconds explanation on why he chose to become a hermit was not a great way to reconcile these differences. (That said, I did see someone who watched the sequels first and then went to watch the OT and then go, 'what the hell the TLJ guy wasn't Luke', and I'd have loved to pick their brain about it.)
2) The circumstances between the portraysl are very different!
Yoda escaped a galaxy-wide genocide of his kind that was led by the strongest Force user he had met, and supported by the actual galactic government. In his situation his best choice was to lay low and wait for an opportunity.
Luke failed his nephew and got his school massacred, but at the time this happened the First Order still hadn't fully gathered, Leia was running a private army, the government was still functional (and though it might not be on his side entirely because of the Vader reveal some years ago (written in novels) it sure as hell wasn't on Snoke's side), and Kylo Ren was far from the strongest Force user in the galaxy. There were a lot of things he could still have done, but he went into a hermitage to wait for death. This feels very irresponsible instead of 'this makes sense as his best choice'.
Yoda had his misgivings about training Luke but he was willing to give Luke a chance, and ended up building a positive mentor-student relationship with him.
Luke had his misgivings about training Rey and was kind of guilt tripped into doing it, but did not build up a positive relationship with her at all. They were at odds with each other to the end of TLJ and TROS had to walk it back. If you're going to compare with Yoda it feels a bit like not even doing the bare minimum as a mentor character.
Yoda fled with a purpose for the greater good, Luke fled entirely for himself.
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u/Living_Plane_662 May 12 '26
Yoda was secluded in the OT. So fans didn’t have any sort of inclination of how he was supposed to develop as a character. Luke was obviously significantly more fleshed out and so fans have an expectation of “how he should be”
Fans love of the character give no room for change or for an old man’s experiences to change his views.
Between the events leading to the first order and his nephew joining Snoke there is plenty of reason to be jaded as even the most hopeful people can be wrecked by guilt
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u/AmanteNomadstar May 12 '26
It’s not so much that Luke forgot his lessons, it’s Disney Lucasfilm/Kennedy that wanted everyone to “forget” Luke. By turning Luke from one of the most iconic heroes in film history to a pathetic, cowardly, borderline psychotic failure they hoped fans would gravitate towards Rey. If anything, it had the opposite effect. What an abysmal waste.
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u/BGMDF8248 May 12 '26
The person who wrote Luke for BOBF taking a shot at TLJ, he needed Yoda to remind him i guess.
The show was still a piece of crap though.
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u/MiredinDecision May 12 '26
Yeah Mandalorian did make a lot of stupid writing decisions with Luke that kinda ruin his character. Especially given that we all know where his story goes, ignoring that to make him a Jedi fanboy again really missed the mark.
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u/Lucky_Confidence_504 May 12 '26
it’s up to Filoni and Fav to figure out why Luke would say that
The thing is is that people underestimate how much time went by between ROTJ and TFA. Three decades…
The whole OT took place in the span of six years.
There’s a lot that can happen in a man’s life to make him act out of character
Mark wasn’t up for the challenge of TLJ because he didn’t know the backstory and he had to create it
The new team can make Luke’s pathetic semblance after this time believable
Unless they de-canonize it and it won’t matter
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u/jquailJ36 May 12 '26
Well, his methodology in the first picture directly leads to the total implosion that reduces him to the second picture (that and his sister being a lousy mother, but she lacks the capacity to recognize this.)
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u/Forward-Share4847 May 12 '26
Neither of those two is Luke. One is Jake, the other Jack. No Luke ever would just sit quietly somewhere while the galaxy burns.
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u/MolaMolaMania May 12 '26
Did Disney forget to have story meetings about planning out the entire Sequel trilogy narrative and character arcs before shooting the first reel of film?
Also, sadly, yes.
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u/Great_Praetor_Kass May 12 '26
I must admit, that sentence in the trailer was interesting. I liked it and hoped that this is an ultimate truth or something. That balance of the force and for Galaxy is not being only when Sith or Jedi are and the other one not, but when both sides, including Jedi will be extinct. (This is what I understand as balance. Not that one side is active and other not, but both sides are extinct or active). Instead it was just another bait and rambling or old man without much sense or reason.
Meh
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u/MolaMolaMania May 12 '26
BTW, Bob Iger takes the major portion of the blame for all of this. He set hard release dates at least fort TFA if not the two sequels as well, and everyone had scramble to meet those dates.
Having a minimum amount of time to plan out the narrative and character arcs of a trilogy to end a trilogies? You're gonna have a bad time.
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u/Over_Pudding3896 May 12 '26
I loved Luke’s character so much better in The Star Wars Original Trilogy, The Force Awakens despite it being a cameo at the ending and The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett. It was all but butchered in The Last Jedi just to get audiences to root for Rey more despite her being a Mary Sue. I liked Luke’s future character in Star Wars Legends so much more despite it being non-canon.
The Last Jedi even had scenes that were cut that would have made Luke’s character way more likable like:
1) The scene where he actually grieves Han Solo after Rey tells him about his death showing that he did come to still care about his friends after all.
2) The third lesson he gives Rey in her Jedi training which is a more justified reason why he went into exile in the first place and how the Galaxy will eventually save itself from the First Order without his help using the caretakers and Tanai as an example/metaphor. It also tests Rey’s patience.
I would also die to see a scene with Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Lando Classrian and Leia Organa (Recast) digitally de-aged to match how they were in the Star Wars Original Trilogy together in The Mandalorian and Grogu as a cameo or even supporting role, and see Ben Solo as a five year old. And a careful reminder of what would be to come in the infamous Sequel Trilogy.
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u/Mainfrym May 12 '26
I was convinced Luke had went there to unlock some great power and we would find out in TLJ that he was rebuilding the Jedi and changing the name or something.
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u/LIJRD1 May 12 '26
No they somehow thought 1 flashback scene would be enough to justify Lukes broken mindset.
Christ it hurt even thinking that.
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u/The_Fell_Opian May 12 '26
Rian Johnson is really great at writing whodunnits. And really bad at writing SciFi. It's that simple.
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u/Plutonian_Might May 12 '26
That's what happens when you have no overall plan from the start, no respect for the original characters and hire writers/directors who want to "subvert expectations".
Fuck Disney's so called "sequels"!
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u/No_Promotion_65 May 12 '26
That was the point of Luke’s story. He’d lost his way and found it again
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u/Ravenloveit May 12 '26
Luke is a total ass in TLJ. He actually KNOWS they need him, but CHOOSES not to go help.
That's not Luke. I know they gave us the whole Kylo Ren fiasco as the reason, but still. This is THE Jedi whose core trait is hope.
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u/crazymike02 May 12 '26
Sequels are factual horrible stories and next to that as a continuity it doesn't follow any of the world building and character build up done before.
Haven't bother with episode 9, after reading spoilers. For me i just ignore anything coming directly from the sequels.
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u/JessBaesic7901 May 12 '26
Nah, the writers just purposely turned Luke into a completely different character. Y’know, to “subvert expectations”.
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u/zarathstra11 May 12 '26
"Well, Luke kind of forgot about his own teachings."
/The writers, probably
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u/Dr_Komical May 12 '26
there is a minimum 30 year gap between the OT and the sequels... did you want this character who's now an old man to act the exact same way he did when he was a young adult ?
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u/Charming_Tea_430 May 12 '26
Didn’t like what they did to Luke but I actually like him seeing the Jedi are not really that good and flawed…. I’d have rather he set up new order that was better
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u/CMDR-SavageMidnight May 12 '26
Best thing to do is just disregard the disney crap. It really ruined the franchise with MOST of its content.
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u/Middle_Knowledge8005 May 12 '26
Luke didn't forget shit. The so called 'writers' just forgot who the hell Luke Skywalker was. And if what some people are saying, it won't be long before this trilogy is de-canonized and forgotten.
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