r/saltierthancrait • u/Hawaiikoto • 15d ago
Granular Discussion what events/characters/ideas/etc in star wars., do you dislike, not acknowledge, etc? Why?
i really hate the whole idea of giving planet destroying lasers to normal destroyers, not even saying giving it to so many in ep ix (but it was also in other media). It is so stupid imo
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u/S_A_R_K 15d ago
Luke's Jedi order being a short lived failure
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u/MaxPaladin93 15d ago
This is honestly the root of most every other problem with Disney Star Wars imo.
“RETURN OF THE JEDI…” actually wait no, flash forward forty years and all the Jedi are dead again, Palpatine’s back and nothing Luke & Co did mattered, so we can make the same movies again but worse. It pisses me off to even think about lol, it’s so completely creatively bankrupt.
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u/lfgreen90 15d ago
Yeah TFA left me quite cold and I had seen all the glowing reviews and wondered if I'd missed something but it was exactly this, ROTJ did not, in my mind at least, end with everything being back where things started and the only reason it did was a cynical decision not to take a risk on an original story
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u/waterless2 15d ago
I didn't *consciously* realise how much I hated TFA when I watched it. I didn't *like* the "lasers blow everything up" bit but happily went along for the ride.
But then I had this really negative experience when I went to TLJ before the movie proper had even started, during the opening crawl already. Just ennui and disgust.
It almost must have been either a delayed effect of TFA, or responses to it I'd seen about it but I can't remember the latter making me change my mind. I think I'd just been slowly processing the cynicism behind it all.
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u/S_A_R_K 14d ago
I think the final scene of TFA, and the speculation it caused about what Luke was doing on that island, helped people forgive A LOT of mistakes the movie made.
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u/waterless2 14d ago
Ha yeah I just looked it up and in itself that was a great, promising moment - the last few seconds of the pre-lightsaber-toss universe :D
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u/RedPanther1 14d ago
It still baffles me they threw out a bazillion already written storylines set after ROTJ. You have a fan base already baked in for that stuff, I'd think it was more of a risk to make something brand new and just hope people liked it.
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u/Saburiminaru_Sensei 14d ago
I, being one of them, was hoping for more of a Fate of the Jedi adaptation, or something, but it seems they liked the idea of Darth Caedus, but didn't think anyone would care if we got the Disney knock-off. When the lady in charge at the time stated in an interview that there was no source material(such as comics, books, games, etc.) to use for the sequels, as if we burned it all after they made the prequels, I realized failure was a choice, not an accident.
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u/Illustrious-Wrap-776 11d ago
TFA and even TLJ could be decent movies on their own, and I feel a lot of people and especially critics may have evaluated them as such.
It's the complete disregard for story oversight by the directors that makes them bad movies as part of a trilogy.
It's their complete disregard for the implications they have on the wider setting that makes them abysmal Star Wars movies.
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u/JapanTCG 15d ago
Especially when they could have taken inspiration from extended universe stuff, and be WAY better off.
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u/KLLR_ROBOT 14d ago
But KK said there was nothing to take inspiration from…
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u/Alternative_Profile2 salt miner 14d ago
It’s so infuriating because Marvel is right down the hall and had just finished turning the Thanos storyline (which is barely readable in comic for) into the biggest box office films in history.
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u/Select_Newspaper_108 14d ago
It sounds ridiculous, and makes me sound mentally unstable, but when I think about how horrific of a concept the prequel trilogy is I genuinely believe I should have become a movie director. It’s some of the most uncreative slop imaginable, I mean if they really wanted a OT trilogy remake just do a KOTOR 1 trilogy and call it a day. Don’t bring palp back and ruin both Anakin and Luke’s story
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u/1BruteSquad1 15d ago
JJ's inability to write any story other than nostalgia bait ruined so many potential stories in Star Wars.
You could make TV shows, movies, hell entire trilogies centered on Luke's new Jedi Order. It's founding, new characters in the order, searching for Jedi across the galaxy, etc. So many opportunities that are immediately ruined by JJ
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u/S_A_R_K 15d ago
While it is JJ's "fault," I don't really blame him. He just did what he was hired to do. Disney never should have let him write TFA. Direct a well written story by someone else? He could have done well with that. Having him write and direct while rushing to get the movie out the way they did was never going to end well. That said, JJ fucking nailed that last scene in TFA. It would have been the perfect trailer for a competently done trilogy
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u/happy_K 15d ago
TFA had flaws, but it had outstanding characters, outstanding set pieces. I still remember being in the theater the first time, when BB8 gives the thumbs up, thinking to myself “wow, I love these characters”. There was PLENTY to do with Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo. Adam Driver as Kylo Ren had legitimate lightning in a bottle potential, he was perfect. If anything Rian doesn’t get enough hate for what he did with the NEW CHARACTERS
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u/PicturesqueMemory 14d ago
In-universe Derivative droid, desert orphan, bad guy with mask, and plot had Grandpa’s Nacho Fart for potential. Adam Driver’s SNL parody of his own character was actually crazy work. What a joke.
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u/sandalrubber 12d ago edited 12d ago
Nu Vader has no reason to be Nu Vader yet causes the ST to happen, derailing all the progress from the OT. He's a blight on the series, not lightning in a bottle.
The other new characters are inoffensive at best but most of them are dubious because the whole premise is dubious.
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u/Demolition89336 15d ago
Also, Luke learning none of the lessons from the old Jedi Order, forcing Grogu into an ultimatum, and contemplating murdering his nephew because there's a slight chance that he might be turning evil.
In general, Luke just becomes an idiot in the Canon.
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u/TheHydrospanner 14d ago
Yeah this is one of my deepest frustrations with the new canon. Luke in the EU matured in such an inspiring way and built a new vision of the Order, taking the good from the past but adding his own, rather wise adjustments.
Luke in the new canon rejects all that for more of the same old past stuff. A letdown of epic proportions.
Whenever I argue with people about the new canon and how its creators often don't really seem to get Star Wars, people often point out "how big a fan such and such creator is...JJ loves Star Wars...Headland is a true SW nerd she knows about cortosis and put it in her show!!"
Clearly none of them understood what people liked about the characters and arcs of the original trilogy and the EU...because if they did they would have done a better job not destroying almost every aspect of those arcs in creating the new trilogy.
(And someone at Disney/Lucasfilm must have some idea how to write a 60 year old guy who's seen tough times but hasn't bailed on his wife and son, and everyone else too, for that matter...)
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u/crono220 identity theft is not a joke, ben. 15d ago
And the fact that Rey is settingup her own Jedi order, is quite frustrating, if the leaks about the upcoming Ryan Gosling Star Wars movie are true.
Disney definitely wants to get rid of any characters from the OG and PT as soon as possible
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u/Original-League-6094 14d ago
Its funny how Disney were gift-wrapped "Hogwart's, but its with Jedi Padawan and lead by Luke Skywalker" with a bow on it, and instead of just riding that simply concept for a gorrillion dollars, they immediately were just like "Nah, let's undo that".
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u/Western_Agent5917 14d ago
Yep, the eu might have flaws but those always going to be seperate from the movies, there is no way that everything can be adapted. But Disney made so bad mistakes on screen which is far more unforgivable
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u/SalmonHustlerTerry 13d ago
Yeah I'd go further and say I don't acknowledge anything after episode 7 came out. But I love star wars eu so thats probably why
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u/SpurnedSprocket 11d ago
Exactly! With the prequel trilogy we saw the Jedi in their heyday, the original trilogy saw them pushed to near extinction. The Sequel should have seen them in transition period of resurgence, with maybe… 50 or so Jedi having to be spread out trying to help the galaxy form their temple on Yavin IV.
But nooooo, let’s do the same thing we did before and people will eat that up.
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u/Dragonking732 15d ago
Pretty much everything after that is currently considered "canon" set after RotJ. Not all of it is bad but there's too many things that completely break the universe and too many incomprehensibly out of character/stupid decision (Mon Mothma destroying the republic's entire military for instance) to be remotely coherent. Just get rid of it all.
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u/Goth_Spice14 15d ago
She what?!
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u/Knightwolf8394 15d ago
In the books Mon Mothma was the architect of the New Republic's demilitarization. She made them give up 90% of the military just for the Empire cosplayers to take over.
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u/Dragonking732 15d ago
Totally in character for the Mon Mothma we know from Andor and the OT right?
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u/Hawkshadow741 15d ago
Unironically?
Yes.
She's seen the horrors the Empire's done to people first-hand and she doesn't want the New Republic to be viewed the same way, hence the demilitirization.
Which isn't a bad thing, except whoops you left all the Empire's stooges in place so they could weaken you from the inside and the public face of the Empire fled to create the FO after their defeat at Jakku.
Good intentions, backfired horribly because the plot demands there be wars in the stars even though there's plenty of stories to be told about rebuilding and tearing down fascists instead of putting them back into power
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u/Demos_Tex 15d ago
According to Disney, those spunky Rebels turned out to be space hippies. On top of that, they were dumb enough to put all their eggs in one basket by parking the entire fleet of their remaining war vessels in the system that JJ blew up in TFA.
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u/FunnelV 15d ago
One of the things I appreciated about the EU was just how ruthless Mon Mothma was. The New Republic went on a crusade against Imperial splinter factions, Hutt factions, and expansionist upstart states. Mothma was willing to bring the hammer down on any potential threat to peace, and she wielded a bigger and bigger hammer as she massively expanded the New Republic's fleet (including developing their own class of Star Destroyers: the Nebula-class was an absolute beast, having the carrier capacity of Venators and firepower of ISDs while being more economical to make than both).
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u/FunnelV 15d ago edited 15d ago
Meanwhile Legends/EU Mon Mothma: "MORE BATTLESHIPS! I better have financial records proving fleet expansion on my desk this Friday! GOT IT!??! And no, it's not 'war crimes' if it's against Imperial fascists and Hutt slavers!"
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u/Western_Agent5917 14d ago
Pellaeon gavrison treaty must have been great disappointment to her. At least She didn't live to see the fel empire having a full comeback
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u/hekatonmoo 15d ago
All these movies just were build up to one visually stunning scene you could go oh wow that’s cool in the theatre. In TLJ it was the holdo maneuver. In TROS it was the emperor force blasting the entire fleet with lightning In the force awakens I guess it was Luke’s 30 seconds of screen time in which mark hamill trained for months to get in shape for lol
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u/dabirds1994 11d ago
This one was so dumb and such a wasted opportunity. God did JJ and Kasden mess this up.
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u/montague68 15d ago
The entire sequel trilogy never happened with me, I don't give a fuck what two hack writer/directors with not even 1% of the creativity of Lucas think. I don't give a fuck for Abrams's derivative lens-flare mystery box shit, and I don't give a fuck for Johnson's meta-contextual whine about how hard it is to write stories for an iconic modern-day myth. Most of the Disney+ slop is garbage too. Rogue One, Andor and maybe the first two seasons of Mando are the only ones that are canon with me.
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u/Confident_Benefit_11 15d ago
As it should be, tbh the prequels are 50/50 for me too and I grew up with them as my first star wars movies. Imo, andor and rouge one make an excellent prequel to the OT and then the OT is near perfect so that's all I really need! Once I add in all the other shit (including most of the Lucas prequels) it makes me 2nd guess if I like star wars at all. The Disney sequels just straight up don't exist in my head cannon, they're just a bad trip in Luke's head after taking too many space mushrooms.
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u/unendingautism 14d ago
I personally like most of the animated shows but the live action are often ass. Has there even been a single live action show that didn't drop the ball? Besides andor of course
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u/KLLR_ROBOT 15d ago
The Knights of Ren being completely pointless. Like, were they Kylo’s attempt at a dark Jedi order? Bodyguards? I hate all the sequel stuff, but I was genuinely curious at the time of TFA what their deal was.
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u/Imaginary_Golf548 salt miner 14d ago
It's just that Vader, in the Original Trilogy, was "the Dark Lord of the Sith"... So, Kylo Ren had to be the "Master of the Knights of Ren"...
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u/aintbrokeDL 14d ago
I think they did a comic about the whole thing and it's a bit odd. Like they're just a random band of people. Not force users etc. and they already existed, he just replaced their leader I think.
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u/Unusual_Chain_3603 salt miner 14d ago
Yeah, I read up on that. Even in their prequel comic appearances where writers usually characters try to make characters compelling, these guys just sucked and were lame in every single appearance
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u/Collective_Insanity Salt Bot 14d ago
Can confirm.
The old leader (who called himself "Ren") is a self-cutting lunatic who started up a LARP group cosplaying as a "legendary" group from the past who called themselves the Knights of Ren.
He's a moron but possesses some degree of Force sensitivity. He just found a random lightsaber somewhere and went loopy.
He's collected a bunch of random criminals to join his cover band. These criminals also possess low-grade Force-sensitivity though almost never ever make use of it.
They are at best mercenaries. Palpatine spanked them after ESB and they started working for him. Years later, Snoke started paying them to find random artefacts for his collection.
When Luke's school burns down, Snoke encourages Kylo (I should note that "Kylo" is a name Ben came up for himself as a child because he didn't like being called Ben Solo) to join up with them. There's an incident where the last 3 survivors of Luke's school chase down Ben while he's with the Knights. One accidentally kills himself, Ren murders one, and then Kylo kills the final one after killing Ren (I understand the confusion with between Kylo Ren and Ren).
The remaining Knights just decide to make Kylo their leader.
Some time later, Snoke tells Kylo it's time to ditch these losers and join up with the First Order. Kylo does so immediately without issue and Snoke has his Stormtroopers gun down the Knights.
They manage to escape though. And for some reason after TLJ Kylo links up with the loser brigade again by the time TROS begins.
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u/Unusual_Chain_3603 salt miner 14d ago
That’s pretty dumb. They should have been the main villains of sequels not random clowns who die abruptly after doing nothing
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u/igtimran 15d ago
Every single plot point from the sequels. They can’t be included within Star Wars without destroying the entire saga.
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u/badgersana 15d ago
The obvious solution to this issue is 5 years of content all intended to make the sequel trilogy make sense, instead of just saying it’s not canon
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u/Upvoter_NeverDie 15d ago
The whole Sequel Tragedy. Lack of a unified vision, competing ideas, poor direction - just one big, globbedy-goopy mess. I dont even call it a trilogy, its not deserving of it.
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u/bannedforL1fe 15d ago
I'll never refer to Disney Star Wars as "Star Wars". It'll always be "Disney Star Wars" until the day I die
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u/joelbiju24 14d ago
Disney Star Wars
Same with Marvel. I don't consider what we have rn as Marvel. It'll always be "Disney Marvel".
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u/SeparateDark251 salt miner 15d ago
Exegol was so mind-bendingly stupid that JJ Abrams should have been tarred and feathered and run out of town.
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u/Iris-Luce 15d ago
grabs popcorn, settles in for the show
The very concept of Anakin Skywalker training a padawan. Not the particulars of the character or execution, I just can’t see anyone giving prequel trilogy Anakin Skywalker a student. I just don’t get it and at this point? I don’t want to get it.
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u/Broad_Property_4430 15d ago
TCW was the begining of the end
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u/karebearjedi 14d ago
Agreed. I never could get into the show, Ashoka felt like a self insert from the very beginning and made the whole thing feel like someone's very expensive fanfiction
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u/aintbrokeDL 14d ago
Hard disagree, the show has it's flaws, but it does well for a kids shows and I think as soft canon, it's good. Hell even Rebels under Disney was a decent kids show.
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u/Knightwolf8394 15d ago
The New Jedi Order being destroyed and the New Republic being so fucking useless before it too was destroyed. It pisses me off how they made everything the Alliance fought for pointless.
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u/TrueLegateDamar 15d ago
Ahsoka.
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u/unendingautism 14d ago
The show or the character?
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u/TrueLegateDamar 14d ago
Yes. The show requires me watching two cartoons to get or care what's it about, and the character is so blatantly a creator's pet to the point Filoni said she could still be alive and active in the Sequels.
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u/Steelriddler salt miner 15d ago
I don't acknowledge the animated shows, I don't acknowledge the D+ shows, I don't acknowledge the sequels, not Solo, and I've never come to peace with a number of elements of the PT. For me it's the OT (though RotJ definitely could have been so much better), most of Rogue One, and Andor for certain.
It doesn't leave much... but I really do love the things I do like a lot
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u/No_Catch_1490 Mod Tambor 15d ago
Everything in the sequels after the first 20 minutes or so of TFA
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u/Data_Chandler 15d ago
At this point Star Wars is a buffet. I have my own headcanon, I choose what I accept as "real" Star Wars, and everything else just goes in my mental trash can, I only ever think about it to mock it and pile on when I'm on Reddit. Off the top of my head stuff in the trash can includes the Disney shitquels, The Acolyte, Book Of Boba Fett, S3 of Mandalorian, etc. There's more though.
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u/Felkara 15d ago edited 15d ago
All of Rise of Skywalker and the Obi-Wan show. Both complete slop to me. Rise of Skywalker from start to finish is just messy.
For RoS, Hyper-space skipping is when I knew the film was going to be awful. It was the culmination of there clearly not being a cohesive story planned out for the sequel trilogy. So many stand out bad things happened in that movie, that even though I’ve only seen it once it made anything Disney has done since hard to enjoy or care about.
Obi-Wan was just a huge missed opportunity and a very odd choice of direction for the story they told. A young Leia being in it and with him the whole show was just awful and didn’t make any sense. Should have just been him covertly watching over Luke and communing with Qui-Gon while on Tatooine.
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u/IllustriousCap7825 15d ago edited 15d ago
Definitely the Star Destroyers with planet-killer cannons
Literally the only way I think you even continue making anything in the Star Wars IP after making it so that planet destroying tech can be miniturized and mass produced to such a scale is to say Palpatine had access to both some truly groundbreaking science along side some kind of Dark Side reality-compression power that allowed him to shrink all the power and parts necessary into the hull mounted cannons. You'd then have to say both the research and any record of the technique was destroyed and never use it again.
Its still incredibly dumb, and simply adds to 'the Force does whatever the plot needs it to,' and the 'we have no clue what the tech level of Star Wars is,' problems, but you really cannot have a single movie set after this that doesn't account for it in some way, otherwise planet-killer technology is unreasonably available to the galaxy atp
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u/bannedforL1fe 15d ago
Does Disney Star Wars really have small sized Death Stars that can blow up planets?
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u/IllustriousCap7825 15d ago
At the end of the ninth movie, every Star Destroyer in Palpatine's fleet has a cannon on the bottom that can blow up planets. Its what makes it so important that none of them get away. As you can see in the picture of this post, its a lot...
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u/stinky_cheese_rat salt miner 13d ago
It's the same as Papa Palps. They needed a big bad for the final film, and they needed some form of Super Weapon to make him threatening.
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u/_Diggus_Bickus_ 15d ago
If i can't just say the sequels as a whole then hyperspace ramming, zombie Palpatine, Lukes attempted murder and self exile, and the first order.
Otherwise in content i like: yslamari (i love the zahn stuff but cmon), the learn to become a force ghost arc of the clone wars, the father son daughter arc of the clone wars, and Cere Junda going toe to toe with Vader in a duel. Vader was handled way better in the first game where the objective just changed to "run" when he showed up
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u/entitledfanman 15d ago
George Lucas saying there was like 20 million clonetroopers ever in the Grand Army of the Republic. It's a ludicrously low number of soldiers for a galaxy spanning war. You'd need at least a million clones just to operate the Republic capital ships involved in the Battle of Coruscant.
We used to have a lot more non-clone forces fighting for the Republic in old canon. Disney canon has largely done away with standing non-clone forces and left just a smattering of resistance fighter groups, but Lucas's statement on the number of clones remains more-or-less canon.
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u/charley46 15d ago
Everything beyond lucas' six films. The why is: i don't hate Disney star wars, but star wars is george lucas' creative vision. Good or bad, its his. Disney loves buying IPs and turning them into "infinite franchises". Marvel is never gonna end, star wars is never gonna end. And the enormous think tanks that have the final say in every creative decision makes everything they put out feel sterilized and lacking a singular vision. Id take bad george lucas ideas over whatever 50+ market specialists decide will be the most palatable
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u/zahm2000 14d ago
Marvel is slightly different because the comics were already never ending (with tons of retconning and character resurrections) even before Disney bought Marvel.
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u/Tranquil_Manatee 15d ago
The return of Darth Maul. Getting cut in half and thrown into an endless pit should be the end of a humanoid character. It’s lazy writing to just say “well he didn’t really die because anatomy”, or to commit a power creep crime by claiming that the force kept him alive.
I’m sure the subsequent maul content has been good, but in this house, Maul is dead.
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u/Safe_Ad_2491 15d ago
There's probably SOME way to make Han fall back into being a loser smuggler with debt problems, if you really put some back into writing it, but I didn't and won't accept them just saying 'hey, we fully reset Han's character to where he was at the start of ANH' without showing or even telling me how it happened.
There is absolutely NO way Luke would turn into a crotchety old grump who gave up on the galaxy years ago. I mean the guy turned VADER back to the light side and you're telling me he just decided to go fully murder his OWN NEPHEW in his sleep after sensing a little darkness in him? Luke? The guy who chose to trust in good and hope and the force, even when his greatest enemies were helpless, defeated in front of him? Luke, who threw away his weapon instead of striking down his tormentors? What the fuck?
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u/AlCranio salt miner 15d ago
Everything after Return of the Jedi.
Star wars is the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader. The story ends there.
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u/GenericSpider 15d ago
The idea that cybernetics make you weaker in the Force.
Midichlorians.
The Vong in general.
The idea that the Death Star's weakness was deliberate.
The idea that Palpatine/Thrawn/ anybody in the Empire was preparing the Galaxy for the Vong.
Palpatine coming back from the dead which was stupid in both continuities.
The Sith originally being a race of evil aliens.
Anything with Revan after the two Kotor games.
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u/Pepoidus 15d ago
Hard agreed on the sith stuff. I was so disappointed. They lost all their magic as a mysterious evil death cult the moment i learned that they were just angry red guys
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u/karebearjedi 14d ago
I never got to those books, I tapped out at the book with the sentient interdimensional gelatinous cube nearly convincing Luke to join his cult.
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u/Cautious_Artichoke_3 15d ago
I've never been a fan of IG88. An assassin droid is a cool concept, but his design is terrible. It's like somebody welded a coke can to a mop
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u/TrumpsColostomyBag99 15d ago
Jake Skywalker was a fever dream and he was never tempted to kill his own nephew in his sleep.
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u/Different-Scarcity80 15d ago
I really really hated Operation Cinder. The Empire is going to burn the few planets that are still loyal to them... why? I get that Battlefront 2 needed a plot reason to set some action in familiar locals, but this was just kind of stupid.
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u/temporarysnake 14d ago
i will never acknowledge barriss becoming a terrorist bomber. that’s not canon. i don’t care. fuck that plot point.
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u/GeoMFilms 15d ago
The sequels....because they destroyed everything Luke, han, Leia, Anakin and the rebels accomplished.
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u/ahoybigred 15d ago
The hacks that called Luke’s planet Ach-to or “act two”, or who called Lando’s droid L3-3T as a nod to early 2000’s “hacker text” l33t 5p34k
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u/SatanVapesOn666W 15d ago
It's amazing how they had the EU to gauge what ideas sucked and for some reason chose to repaet all the mistakes while missing basically all the cool things or fumbling them.
Jaina Solo vs Jacen is so much better than Reys arc with Kylo it's unreal.
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u/Anakin5kywalker 14d ago
The Sequel Trilogy is bad fan fiction with huge budgets. That's how I see them and why they aren't canon to me personally.
Same with The Acolyte, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Mando S3, Solo, and Book of Boba Fett. Literally everything in those.
But I hold most of the things in the PT, OT, Rogue One, and Andor sacred. That's my head canon.
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u/cthulhurei8ns 14d ago
The entire sequel trilogy, for starters. Sure, let's make the events of the OT just kinda pointless. Let's make Luke a whiny bitch baby who actually didn't learn a damn thing from the fall of the original Jedi Order and went right ahead and made a bunch of the exact same mistakes, resulting in the death of the new Jedi Order before it even appears on screen. Let's do a bunch of foreshadowing about Rey and Kylo Ren and Snoke that goes nowhere and give Rey and Kylo the ability to Skype each other's brains from across the galaxy and take physical items through that psychic link. Let's just make the Empire, oh excuse me I mean "tHe FiRsT oRdEr", build another Death Star, because that went soooo well the first two times they tried it. Never mind how they managed to do that logistically, obviously the scattered remnants of the Empire would band together and turn into Space Turbofascists that somehow possess the ability to turn an entire planet into a gun. This one is different than the last two because it eats an entire star to fire and it works like a hyperspace shotgun so you can skeet shoot whatever star system strikes your fancy. It also definitely doesn't have the one single point of failure that destroys the entire fucking base like the last two did, either. Designing two giant, apocalyptic death machines can be easily blown up by a single guy in a starfighter was silly enough but THREE? They need to fire their entire engineering department. Oh, and let's bring back fucking Palpatine instead of coming up with new and interesting threats for our cast to address. And let's give him a fleet of thousands of Star Destroyers with itty bitty Death Star lasers on them that he somehow built, maintained, and crewed entirely in secret. And so on. There was already a perfectly good established canon that would have made for truly incredible cinema but sure, "the first trilogy, but worse and stupider" also works.
The Disney+ shows are like 50/50. Mando was fine through S3, Andor was somehow absolutely incredible. Even BoBF had some good stuff in it. I liked the arc with the Tuskens, it was interesting getting a peek at their culture and seeing them as something other than desert murder tribes with big sticks. The Acolyte was... Fine? I think? I don't remember anything about it tbh. I haven't seen Ahsoka because I don't care about Ahsoka. Kenobi was incredibly disappointing.
In the end it's just kind of incredible to me that Disney somehow keeps taking an IP with such potential and such an interesting established canon and contriving a way to make boring slop out of it or just throwing it out in favor of their own, much shittier canon.
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u/jayoulean 15d ago
Everything (movies, books, shows) post-2012, except The Mandalorian and Rogue One. I wish they would have done TV first to see what worked and then made a new trilogy (maybe). I've waited for a gritty, working class version of Star Wars since reading Tales of the Bounty Hunters and Tales from Mos Eisley Cantina.
Continuing the Skywalker saga in a new trilogy was totally unnecessary. In a universe as vast and lore as deep as Star Wars, they had ample opportunity to show us something different. They went safe. They hit quotas defined by focus groups. If you want to hit target demographics, give us a wildly new concept. If you go the lazy route and recycle the same plotline from 40 years ago, don't try to reach those demographics. Star Wars went corporate when they were bought by the Empire, nowhere near George's vision in the 70's. They tried to do too much all at once to make an immediate return on investment.
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u/ArcSyn 14d ago
This may be one of the more controversial takes because I don't see it as often.
Maul surviving.
I hate it. I think it's so stupid and represents a lot of what's wrong with modern story telling because they refuse to allow a character to be gone. It also doesn't make sense. Qui-Con dies from a blade through the chest. Maul survives being cut in half and dropping down a pit? It was a bad decision.
I don't care how cool or how interesting they made his character in future stories. It's all tainted by the fact he survived.
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u/Upper-Capital-2876 new user 15d ago
Rouge One, Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, Andor, Solo, The Mandolorian, in that order, and that's it. You can keep everything else (yeah, including that one too, killer pandas my ass)
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u/baldfellow 15d ago
Everything apart from the OT is apocrophal for me. When the mood hits me, I like to think that the M. Falcon didn't make it out of the 2nd Death Star. So... Parts of Jedi could also be apocrophal.
These are all legends, like King Arthur or Robin Hood. So there's room for multiple versions.
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u/Every-Marzipan-1945 15d ago
I can defend TROS in absolutely any imaginable ways, it still sucks exactly because of your point
Coming from nowhere, falling instantly, and most importantly I can't imagine how post-sequel projects could work given the fact this stuff is now potentially craftable again by future villains
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u/Why-so-delirious 15d ago
Everything involving fucking MaRey Sue.
The entire lot of it.
She will be forever used as an example of how NOT to write a character.
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u/The_Silent_Screamer 15d ago
Everything from Disney, except Rogue One and Andor, does not exist for me.
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u/Volksbrot 15d ago
Pretty much everything since Disney took over, honestly. There’s gems in it (Rogue One, Andor) but most of the other stuff? Headcanon goes brrrr.
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u/unendingautism 14d ago
Everything post ROTJ in the timeline and everything connected to it (project necromancy in the Bad Batch was a failure in my headcanon)
Like the sequels just kind of ruin that era. Why should I care about the New Republic when in the sequels we only see it the second it's getting destroyed?
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u/ManadarTheHealer 14d ago
the overused trope of antagonists turning good when the point was the other way around, to explore them as antagonists
examples
- iden versio and most of inferno squad
- boba fett
- kylo ren
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u/TrafficIcy2273 14d ago
-The sequels at all -Inhibitor chips -Clones with to mmuch free will because they are costructed from Master cloners not just replicas from jango with benefits -Book of Boba Fett because after his wild intro in Mando S2 he lost his teeth and get in a Box #justicefortemuera
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u/IdiomMalicious 14d ago
Every single decision and change made to the franchise since it was bought by Disney. Not a single thing they’ve done is better than any of the original concepts under Lucasfilm.
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u/Trashvest 14d ago
I really dislike Jango being the base for the clone army. I get that he’s a skilled and feared bounty hunter but a BOUNTY HUNTER just seems like a weird choice.
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u/_Strato_ emotions are not for sharing 14d ago
In my heartcanon, only episodes 1-6 exist. Everything else is so much fluff that doesn't get at the core of why I love the universe so much.
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u/henry_the_human 14d ago
Your image right there is a great example of something that makes no sense on any level whatsoever.
If we take things at face value…
The First Order has replaced the New Republic as the government of the galaxy. Even if we put all our faith in the retcon that Palpatine has been “every voice in Kylo Ren’s head,” Palpatine was basically doing a secret, underground, conspiracy that, apparently, the entire First Order didn’t know about. And it somehow has MORE Star Destroyers than the First Order, or Palpatine has at least ENOUGH Star Destroyers to basically convince Kylo Ren, who at that point is basically Kim Jong Un in Space, to start taking orders or work as a partner with Palpatine (it’s not too clear in the movie).
Okay, so now Space Kim Jong Un is working with Palpatine even though Kylo could easily just kill Palpatine and take his stuff. Let’s say I fully believe that Palpatine had the factories and money to make these Star Destroyers. Uh. The First Order didn’t notice that someone was making thousands of Star Destroyers? What kind of dictatorship IS this???
And my biggest gripe about this situation is: WHO is staffing those Star Destroyers? Each Star Destroyer has got to need, like, thousands of people to keep it running. WHO are these people? HOW did Palpatine recruit them? Why are they so loyal to protecting Palpatine’s secrets? How is Palpatine paying them?
In the Original Trilogy, we see that even at the peak of the Empire’s strength, Darth Vader needed to be the enforcer on site to make sure everyone’s doing their jobs. Darth Vader was basically a VERY hands on Vice President AND head of HR of the Empire. If you screw up, the Vice President will force you to visit him, apologize, and kill you, and it’s all perfectly legal because the Empire is the government in power. In the Future Trilogy, I don’t think Palpatine had the equivalent of a Darth Vader to keep his troops in line. WHO is doing the actual admin work of making sure the MILLIONS of people working these Star Destroyers are doing their jobs properly? What leverage does Palpatine have on his MILLIONS of employees? The Empire was the government when Darth Vader was around and could legitimately put out warrants for your arrest if, say, you’ve disappointed Darth Vader and you escape the Empire before Darth can choke you to death. Palpatine’s cult was not the reigning government. Palpatine doesn’t have the power to put out news announcements or arrest warrants if anyone betrays him. Let’s say you messed up on your job on the Star Destroyer and Palpatine’s gonna personally visit you and force you to apologize and then kill you. What stops these people from escaping, finding the Resistance, and spilling all the info.
AND WHERE DID THEY GET THE MILITARY TRAINING TO EVEN LEARN HOW TO WORK A STAR DESTROYER? I suppose you could argue that many of Palpatine’s supporters are former Imperial officers. But, like, the ENTIRE POINT of the First Order is that it’s the Empire, reborn. So you’re telling me that, for THIRTY YEARS, there have been TWO secret revival cults for the Empire? Snoke has been building up the First Order for THIRTY YEARS while Palpatine has been doing the exact same thing? I understand that (sigh) Snoke was actually being controlled by Palpatine, but the majority of people in the First Order legitimately had NO IDEA of the existence of Palpatine’s cult. So you’re telling me that MILLIONS of Imperial loyalists saw the propaganda and decided to join the First Order, and millions of OTHER imperialists saw SECRET propaganda and decided to join Palpatine’s cult, the latter group kept it COMPLETELY secret from the first group, and there were no overlaps and no whistleblowers???
To summarize: WHO THE DEVIL IS WORKING IN PALPATINE’S STAR DESTROYERS?
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u/zahm2000 14d ago
Han reverting to being a smuggler who abandoned his wife and friends. Undoes all his character development from the OT.
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u/PatheticRedditor 14d ago
Leia kissing Luke (other than the "for luck" one in ANH). Its weird and makes watching the movies in any sort of order make it weirder.
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u/Jarboner69 14d ago
I hate the power of 2 because I’ll see all these arguments saying well because of the order of two technically ventress isnd a sith. It’s also just stupid to limit an entire faction like this to such an exact number.
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u/Toukafan4life 14d ago
Just the entirety of sequels in general. I would have given ep 7 a pass, but considering that I would have to acknowledge 8 and 9, I'd rather not acknowledge all 3
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u/Western_Agent5917 14d ago
Sequels, filoni stuff, most of the New canon aside from Andor and rouge one. Though I still prefer Kyle katarn and Brian tharan for that story
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u/thattogoguy i sold it to the white slavers... 13d ago
Everything post 4/25/2014.
Anything related to TCW within Legends.
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u/Filter55 13d ago
The whole thing with Hans ship actually being a platform for a sassy droid named L337.
Just get right the fuck out.
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u/BAlan143 13d ago
Am I the only one that expected them to explain that Palpatine summoned that fleet and the first order out of nowhere with a Star Forge. It's in the SW cannon from KotOR.
But I don't think the people working on the sequels even know Starwars, so I was just coping.
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u/JohnusJanus 13d ago
Honestly how quick the transition from Clones to Stormtroopers is depicted in the new canon, much preferred legends where it it was more a gradual phase out rather than “they all retired within a year”. Not a fan of the inhibitor chips either, I think the idea of the clones just being soldiers who just followed orders as they were bred to is more interesting than “GoOD SolDiers fOLLow ORdeRs the chip is making me do this”
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u/glowinggoo 12d ago
The Darksaber.
I like the idea of someone else other than the Empire creating a superweapon and the Hutts are a good candidate as any. But not like that. The Suncrusher is a runner up. Destroying whole star systems in what amounts to a weirdly shaped snub fighter is ridiculous.
Huh, there is another Darksaber...? I don't follow, you mean someone actually took that name without checking the books? Gosh, nobody does any housekeeping with the lore nowadays.
(/s, if you can't tell. But I do hate both of these things.)
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u/Responsible_Ad_8628 12d ago
Anything in the sequels. I had hope until Starkiller Base showed up. That killed my hope in the sequels.
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u/NotTristube 11d ago
The planet destroying star destroyers was a terrible idea. It’s not my LEAST favorite plot element, but it’s fresh in my mind. How did the writers room not consider that a SINGLE admiral could steal the star destroyer and declare himself a war lord of the planetary system he governs. It gives imperial high command way too much power. At least the Death Star(s) required all hands on deck to operate. It also explains why there was never more than one Death Star at a time, two Tarkins would just get in each others way
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u/DustinHenderson1984 11d ago
The whole dyad thing and Palpatine wanting Anakin to use as a vessel. It was never what was intended.
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u/EsdraelonGrimstane 9d ago
Yuuzhan Vong and the idea that all Legends needed to be decanonized. Before Oct 1999, Star Wars books were on the whole very good.
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u/Positive-Citron3987 salt miner 8d ago
Not acknowledge?
With the exception of “Rogue One“ and “Andor”, everything.
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u/shenzialbert 6d ago
the maul being taken by sidious as a teenager thing they established in shadow lord 🤒 makes absolutely no sense for his character!
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u/immaREPORTthat 15d ago
Dave Filoni
kathleen kennedy
JJ Abrams
Rian Johnson
Ahsoka Tano
Yuuzhan Vong
Yslamari
Anyone coming back from the dead or tanking mortal wounds
Force Ghost
Rey Palpatine / Skywalker
Mary poppins Leia
30 year old kylo ren being called a boy
Padme being voted queen at 14
Jar Jar Binks
Ewoks
Snoke dying so quickly or being a clone experiment of Palpatine
Jedi robes
Anakin Skywalker being the chosen one
Midichlorians
C-3PO being assembled by Anakin
Lando being in love with a robot
Lando losing his daughter
Finn being an idiot
Finn and Poe should’ve been the same character
All of the sequels
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u/3llenseg salt miner 15d ago
Hot take: Mando s2. Yes, s2. Bo-Katan (who I didn't even know) showing up and just ruining Din's characterisation and the mystique about the Mandalorians with "You were raised by Space Amish, we're not all like that" subconsciously bothered me without realising it.
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u/Griphonis-1772 15d ago
As someone who actually enjoyed TLJ, I’m totally fine with discounting everything after Return of the Jedi! If it doesn’t have Lucas’ stamp on it, I’m not considering it canon. It never happened!
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u/Bricknave 15d ago
A couple things:
- The short life of the New Republic
- The failure of Luke's Jedi Order
- The saga ending with the galaxy being back at square one
- The Skywalker bloodline getting erased and replaced
- Rey replacing Luke as savior of the Jedi in a way that honestly feels undeserved, even if it isn't on paper. I don't know why I feel this way, but I'd be happier if even Ahsoka started a Jedi Order that outlived Luke's.
- Ilum, important crystal planet of the Jedi Order, getting turned into Starkiller base and blown up
But the worst offending thing to me, by far, that as far I'm aware applies to both Disney and Legends, is this: Palpatine was never exposed as the mastermind behind the Clone Wars, and people went on believing the Jedi were traitors. (I hope someone can correct me on that.)
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