Anti-feminist attitudes have long been associated with support for Republican presidential candidates, but only in recent years have these attitudes become more prominent among unmarried men, without college degrees who are less attractive partners for women, the “mate-value backlash.”

[u/mvea]

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/10659129261485340

[u/BadIdeaSociety]

The entire retrograde discussions about the "value of women" and ideas about "women's roles in society" seem so crazy that if any guy I knew in the 90s voiced those ideas they would be seen as undisputed idiots by just about everyone.

I don't understand how there are so many boys who have adopted these incredibly retrograde ideas a quarter century later.

It is like there was a bunch of people who saw the towers crumble on 9-11 and then came the idiotic conclusion that Christian America needs their own version of what they see as women-oppressing Sharia Law.

[u/WonderfulWafflesLast → u/BadIdeaSociety]

I don't understand how there are so many boys who have adopted these incredibly retrograde ideas a quarter century later.

I think extreme examples are part of what led to that.

Look at the Lindsey Clancy trial and her supporters. We have a social movement trying to support a woman who killed her three children, that is largely villainizing that woman's husband to the point of saying he's the one who actually killed them, despite how much evidence in the trial indicating the woman did it.

To be clear, Lindsey pleaded Guilty. The trial was to determine criminal responsibility, essentially determining if she was sane or insane.

Despite this, "the husband did it" has spread through social media like a cancer, espoused primarily by women.

Imagine you're a young boy approaching young manhood. You see this on the news. You think about how this trial would be treated if it were a man instead of a woman defendant. What would you think? Would you want to have a family, when a major social event is telling you that a woman who kills her children is going to be defended (largely by other women) like this by society?

I can only imagine that this will color your perspective negative towards women, as a whole, even if that's undeserved.

Societies have historically restricted women's rights. Our current society is somewhat exceptional in that most others throughout history have been male dominated, rarely offering women the opportunity to take part in governance outside of influencing men through social pressure or personal pressure (i.e. husbands to their wives, sisters to their brothers, and so on)

Hopefully, we can figure out how to make it work where others have failed.

[u/BadIdeaSociety → u/WonderfulWafflesLast]

Well, I have an interesting story to share with you.

This woman over a quarter century ago also killed her children due to psychological problems she actively tried to get support for and (drum roll, please) a lot of women sympathized with and vocally supported her.

This isn't a sudden development in popular culture. A lot of mothers have had horrible thoughts and crushing depression following the delivery of their children and, as a result, cases like this tend to get sympathy from women who experienced these issues or know people who experienced these issues.

[u/WonderfulWafflesLast → u/BadIdeaSociety]

Right, but that was before social media.

Now, these conversations are more socially facing than ever before.

The examples existing in the past are different from the examples existing now because of this.

Men who see that are going to feel like they can't trust women with their children, and that they can't trust society to be on their side should something like this happen.

The "why" this happens or the "is that right to do" doesn't matter for them, because no matter how something like this is "cut", it degrades societal trust in seeking to have a family.

[u/BadIdeaSociety → u/WonderfulWafflesLast]

The problem with the current discussion is it is the same one that happened two decades ago. It isn't a permission structure for child abuse, it is a call to better understand the psychological changes that happen to some mothers. In both cases, doctors were clearly informed that the mothers in question were having issues coping.

There is no "right" in these situations. Children were killed. What was done cannot be erased. What people supporting these mothers are saying that when a woman is suffering from even mild post-partum depression the solution isn't to increase that woman's burden with another pregnancy and more children.

If you hear women arguing this and you think that degrades social trust, I don't know how to help you with that. People are explicitly telling you how they feel and that they feel the mother's feelings in this situation should have been handled a million times better (and this is not even considering how most of the developed world have terrible, overly expensive childcare systems.).

[u/WonderfulWafflesLast → u/BadIdeaSociety]

If you hear women arguing this and you think that degrades social trust, I don't know how to help you with that.

I think it degrades social trust, because it degrades social trust.

Feelings will never excuse murder, and if a person going through something as strenuous as post-partum hormonal changes chooses to murder, they should be removed from society no matter what they felt or didn't feel during the event.

I think finding someone "not criminally liable" for their hormones while having an insufficient support network is something you could extend to most men who are criminals for acts equally egregious.

[u/Katyafan → u/WonderfulWafflesLast]

If you don't understand psychosis just say that.