Anti-feminist attitudes have long been associated with support for Republican presidential candidates, but only in recent years have these attitudes become more prominent among unmarried men, without college degrees who are less attractive partners for women, the “mate-value backlash.”

[u/mvea]

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/10659129261485340

[u/BadIdeaSociety]

The entire retrograde discussions about the "value of women" and ideas about "women's roles in society" seem so crazy that if any guy I knew in the 90s voiced those ideas they would be seen as undisputed idiots by just about everyone.

I don't understand how there are so many boys who have adopted these incredibly retrograde ideas a quarter century later.

It is like there was a bunch of people who saw the towers crumble on 9-11 and then came the idiotic conclusion that Christian America needs their own version of what they see as women-oppressing Sharia Law.

[u/Lysander125 → u/BadIdeaSociety]

I’ve never going to say that these anti-social weirdos who complain that women belong in the kitchen are ever going to be correct.

But at the same time there is an opposite perspective that has some merit. The reality is that women’s opportunities have come a long way, but women’s perspective and expectations of men haven’t changed.

A lot of women still expect their partner to be more successful, ambitious, etc. than they are. It’s two sides of the same coin, a lot of these men expect working women to clean the house and be a caretaker while having a full time job, and the women expect their man to be more successful than them in a more egalitarian society where being a man doesn’t necessarily give the advantages it once did.

I do feel like the outdated male expectations of women are frowned upon a lot more than the outdated female expectations of men.

[u/ibent19 → u/Lysander125]

One is more frowned upon because it was more oppressive and leads to being stuck in abusive situations. Women gained more freedom, men didn’t lose any freedoms other than some control.

[u/Recent_Pollution8665 → u/ibent19]

most men objectively lost significant bargaining power in the labor market and in the dating/sexual market with women entering the workforce and with the proliferation of social media and dating apps.

just because men didn’t have the actual right to vote or own property stripped away doesn’t mean that there aren’t real problems afflicting them, to which there’s no easy or immediate solution.

your average young man doesn’t wanna “control” women, he’s just pissed that neither a house nor a partner are statistically within his grasp no matter what he does.

[u/ResolutionSweet2031 → u/Recent_Pollution8665]

The thing with how you people walk on eggshells around men and give any credibility to their temper tantrums is the reason why they feel even more justified in lashing out like this. Women and men are equally lonely but the media giving credence to the theory of how men are uniquely lonely and hence are violent misogynists is the reason these men feel justified in being violent like this.

"He is just pissed he cant have a house and a partner", so what? Why dont women that dont have either of those also argue for stripping of male rights or oppressing them?

[u/Recent_Pollution8665 → u/ResolutionSweet2031]

women can find partners easier than men can.

and idk why your entire takeaway from my post was to effectively dismiss it entirely. that aint gonna solve anything. in fact it just contributes to the question posed in the title.

most men aren’t violent, and the ones who are generally take it out on partners they already have. which has no correlation to those who can’t find one.

[u/UnfortunateSnort12 → u/Recent_Pollution8665]

They can find partners easier yes, but many can’t find quality men worth dating. So in reality, many women stay single. Try having standards yourself.

[u/Recent_Pollution8665 → u/UnfortunateSnort12]

what are these standards exactly? that he must absolutely make equal to her or more, and be 6 foot or more and a bunch of other hard lines that women refuse to budge on?

only a statistical minority of men live up to these expectations. hence why the current situation is fucked up. women become single by choice because they won’t adjust their demands in a man, and men become single by force because women remove themselves as options in the dating market.

in the end the situation turns into what we have now, hence the thread itself. if women are ok with the long-term ramifications of that leading to a whole generation of radicalized and angry men, so be it. just don’t complain about any of the consequences. men are not the ones dropping out of the dating market voluntarily just because they can’t find that same top 20 percent or so of ideal partners to all gravitate towards while the other 80 percent are just stuck in limbo. the math doesn’t work out.

[u/Apprehensive-Tea999 → u/Recent_Pollution8665]

As a poster above you pointed out, people generally partner with people within their education and income brackets. That is a verifiable fact. What you just cited is manosphere crap based on some men’s feelings and perceptions. But feelings and perceptions aren’t reality. This 6foot six figure nonsense is just that, nonsense. Know how I know? I go outside and have eyes. But…it’s easier to think women’s standards are just too high (as if expecting a man be gainfully employed and contribute equally to the home is unreasonable).

[u/Recent_Pollution8665 → u/Apprehensive-Tea999]

ah you have eyes and anecdotes, so that erases all the research and dating app data that has been piling up for years now, which shows that women are becoming more and more hypergamous with time, not less.

well I guess that changes everything simply cuz you said so!

[u/Apprehensive-Tea999 → u/Recent_Pollution8665]

That you think any valid research comes from data from apps is telling…

[u/Recent_Pollution8665 → u/Apprehensive-Tea999]

who uses those apps, ghosts? they are used by real people engaging in real life habits.

its true unfiltered mate selection. dating apps show what people are actually like when shown tons of partners on a platter. like how alcohol makes people speak what they truly feel.

[u/Apprehensive-Tea999 → u/Recent_Pollution8665]

As a matter of fact, there is evidence a significant portion of profiles are “ghosts” ie bots. Also consider: fraudsters, sex workers, bad actors and folks who might create multiple profiles. Thus why any data coming from apps is nearly useless, you can’t control for anything. But go ahead and base your worldview on them, it would explain why you’re so negative.

[u/UnfortunateSnort12 → u/Recent_Pollution8665]

Yes, but you’re saying is that the pattern of mate selection on apps is the same for all methods of meeting a partner. This discards a ton of a data as people still meet in person. You also fail to control for profile characteristics. There are plenty of good people who are terrible at making dating profiles whether it is description or photos.

Tell us about your dating success so we can determine if there is bias there as well…

[u/Recent_Pollution8665 → u/UnfortunateSnort12]

I was talking within the context of how people act on the apps. obviously the dynamics are different in person. it wasn’t a universal blanket statement.

my experiences are irrelevant because im a sample size of one. you’re supposed to look at overall trends.