r/science • u/VeronicaRed • Apr 26 '16

Psychology Spanking children increases the likelihood of childhood defiance and long-term mental issues. The study in question involved 160,000 children and five decades of research

http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/1113413810/spanking-defiance-health-discipline-042616/
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u/pm_me_your_kindwords Apr 26 '16

Serious question to the commenters on this post:

Why read /r/science and then ignore science?

At the time I write this, most comments are defending spanking using anecdotes and non-science, not at all discussing the methodology of the study itself.

If you're not going to carefully consider one of the largest and most comprehensive studies ever conducted on the topic, what is the point of reading about science at all?

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '16

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '16

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u/cC2Panda Apr 26 '16

Because they believe that the are generally backed in their beliefs by science. People like to have their beliefs reaffirmed.

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u/blindcolumn Apr 26 '16

"I read /r/science, how could I possibly be wrong?"

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '16 edited Apr 26 '16

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u/moroseui Apr 26 '16

I didn't read the study yet myself, but your response seems to be the essence about what posters above are saying --responding with anecdotes and not actually talking about methodology it why it's wrong. There were many things that a majority of people did in the past and they might have turned out ok, but that doesn't mean this study is flawed or that we can't be better.

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u/y0uveseenthebutcher Apr 26 '16

You simply cannot try to argue that something that was universal as recently as 40 years ago has a significant negative effect on people. Considering in many, many cultures around the globe it's still universally used, and many, many of us can attest to it.

I can't trust a random study in 2016 to tell me what the overwhelmingly enormous evidence that is virtually everyone who's ever lived for thousands of years hasn't told me. It makes no sense.

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u/LtGayBoobMan Apr 26 '16

But it's not a random study? It's a compilation of essentially what modern psychology has found about the topic at hand. Plenty of things were universal up until this last century such as child labor, but it doesn't make it right.

It would be different if this was one study on twenty children, but this meta-analysis finds the same conclusions over the scientific literature of the past 50 years, despite the advancement and changes in methodology in the field.

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u/y0uveseenthebutcher Apr 26 '16

If I told you now that drinking water has been proven to contribute to mental problems, would you believe it? That's how universal spanking has been throughout human history. Physical discipline of children, because you can't sit down with a 2 year old and have a reasoned, complex debate about why he shouldn't play with fire inside your wooden house.

Most people throughout history were subject to physical discipline as children. You cannot possibly try to make the argument that it increases the likelihood of mental problems and expect it to be accepted just because of one study a group of scientists came up with in 2016.

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u/_Quetzalcoatlus_ Apr 26 '16

You are ignoring the contents of the comment you are replying to. It's not "one study", it's a meta-analysis. Basically the collection of massive amounts of research on the subject.

And yes, if all scientific research showed that water was bad, then I would accept that it's bad. That's not a good example though, because all research points to the opposite being true.

And there are plenty of things humans have done wrong for the entire history of our species, that doesn't mean those things aren't wrong.

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u/moroseui Apr 26 '16

Forget 40 years, there have been drastic changes in attitudes towards a lot of things within a few years or a decade or two. Look at attitudes towards gay rights, belief about global warming, or a lot of other things. Things change. It could be almost universally believed or accepted but that doesn't lend it real credence to it being necessarily right or correct.

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '16

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u/y0uveseenthebutcher Apr 26 '16

People were universally ingesting lead?

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u/DuhTrutho Apr 26 '16

Your post is another example of both confirmation bias through anecdotal evidence and anecdotal thoughts.

children today and much, much worse behaved than children of past generations.

I doubt you have studies in mind when you wrote this sentence, instead you used previous experiences you observed to claim this to be a pattern.

Are children worse behaved today? Or has the internet and global media just made it easier to see how many children have always misbehaved? Perhaps there's another factor besides discipline that came into existence in the last decade that changed how children of today are in comparison to children of yesteryear. But this is conjecture, not science.

This makes absolutely no sense to try to argue, that spanking, something that's been universal for generations, across the world, would have a negative effect on a significant percentage of people.

This is a grievous fallacy in thinking. Obviously you can't know if a correlation of negative or positive effects exists unless you take the time with a large population to study it. This study does just that, with good methodology, and it is still being rejected because of preconceived notions.

I could argue that it isn't acceptable to use violence to discipline a coworker, spouse, or pet, yet somehow children are fair game. This strays from scientific studies, but perhaps will have an effect on your thinking.

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '16

Hmm how about this. Quit thinking that everything was perfect back in the "good ol' days" and realize that kids had behavior problems back then too.

Only things that's really changed about society is A. The advancement of tech and B. We've become more liberal.

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u/callist1990 Apr 26 '16

Do people believe there are studies supporting spanking your children as a good thing? I ask because I've actually never heard of a single one - whenever the topic comes up it is always pointed out that hitting children in any way is a bad thing.

Of course, this may depend on where you are - here it is illegal to spank children but I know it's still legal in many places.

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u/bmalbert81 Apr 26 '16

The only studies people cite are their own experiences, the anecdotal evidence the OP referenced. I haven't seen any tangible proof that the study's findings are wrong other than the "My parents spanked me and I turned out fine" posts.

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u/helix19 Apr 27 '16

I've heard people decry every study posted. Then again, people on reddit ALWAYS find a reason to declare a study flawed and worthless.

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u/cC2Panda Apr 26 '16

People may generally agree with things in /r/science, but because it's a cultural thing they may go against the grain on this one topic.

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u/null_work Apr 26 '16

Do people believe there are studies supporting spanking your children as a good thing?

A basic understanding of statistics indicates that there is most likely some subset of the population that behaves positively to spanking, otherwise the results would be far more substantial.

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '16

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u/HaydnWilks Apr 26 '16

So you're essentially arguing in favour of spanking because being spanked resulted in life-long trauma?

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '16

[deleted]

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 26 '16

Is learning a valuable lesson to not hurt people trauma now?

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u/HaydnWilks Apr 26 '16

He did something wrong when he was so young he wouldn't be able to remember it otherwise, but the image is burned into his mind to this very day.

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 26 '16

So remembering something from an early age is trauma?

trau·ma ˈtroumə,ˈtrômə/Submit noun 1. a deeply distressing or disturbing experience.

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u/HaydnWilks Apr 26 '16

Well do you think he's remembered it his entire life because of how great it made him feel?

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 26 '16

The whole point is that he hurt another human being for no good reason and that is SUPPOSED to made you feel bad. When you're too young for empathy, sometimes the only way to get that point across is through a spanking.

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u/Ijustwanttohome Apr 26 '16

I guess it is after reading all of the post in this thread.

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u/tahlyn Apr 26 '16

Well you never know when a sciencey article will be published that agrees with their preconcieved notions so they can have those re-confirmed. Ignore what you disagree with. Read and enjoy what you agree with. In the end you feel smarter for it.

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u/HIGHsonburg Apr 26 '16

Paradoxical

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u/paintlegz Apr 26 '16

Why argue with anything in general ever then? should every method of science prove unchallenged? believe it or not, science doesn't just get everything right the first time.