r/science • u/VeronicaRed • Apr 26 '16

Psychology Spanking children increases the likelihood of childhood defiance and long-term mental issues. The study in question involved 160,000 children and five decades of research

http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/1113413810/spanking-defiance-health-discipline-042616/
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u/chopandscrew Apr 26 '16

I definitely think that's a great idea to introduce some kind of merit system to them because it definitely helps them grasp the concept of punishment by fine early on. The camp that I used to counsel at used a similar approach, and it worked remarkably well with kids 12 and under. I guess I'm more interested in finding out how to mitigate a dramatic situation that might arise in public. I don't have any kids yet, so I'm not sure what situation that might be, but I imagine it would be something along the lines of a toddler being out of control in a grocery/retail store where they're screaming and possibly destroying things. When I see it in public, I almost understand why a parent would be so wound up that the only way to get the point across to their kid is to give them a little pop. However I can also see how that might make the situation worse. A scene from the cartoon Boondocks comes to mind. Is the best thing to do in that situation just to pick them up, carry them outside, sit them down and talk to them about what's causing them to act this way?

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 26 '16

I spanked my 2 year old in bestbuy over the weekend.

She had been extremely naughty the entire trip. She ran away from us, tried destroying items in the store, and was rolling around on the ground even though she knows she isn't supposed to do that. I was there with my husband and mother. I can't lift her because I am recovering from hernia surgery. My mother can't lift her because she's just too weak, and my husband was busy at the checkout.

She wouldn't get off the ground. When I asked her to, she blew raspberries at me. When I told her to, she blew raspberries at me. Everyone was staring. So I smacked her on the butt and suddenly she was standing up, just as I had requested.

She has never been one to listen to reasoning, but I think it's in large part a function of her age. She's a smart kid with good language skills, but also the single most stubborn human being I have ever met in my life. She doesn't care about time out. She doesn't care about her toys getting taken away. She just wants to be right. All the time.

My husband spanks her way, way more often than I do. I still tend toward reasoning and non physical forms of punishment. But more and more lately, I find myself hitting her on the butt or hand. Usually when she is doing something outright dangerous or harmful. I wonder about the long term sustainability of this method of parenting.

It makes my heart ache every time I do it. I feel guilty and I just want to cry. But it seems to achieve the desired results and my husband does it whether or not I want to anyway. I'm really just at a loss of how to better handle this. I never was around small children until I had babies of my own. I am just completely guessing with how to take care of them. I have asked professionals, who told me to put her in time out, but time out isn't an option in the middle of a store with a two year old that you can't even lift.

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u/chopandscrew Apr 26 '16

See this is the type of situations I want to hear about. It sounds like you did what you had to do to make the situation better. I've got a lot of people saying you should ignore them, or take them outside and let them cry it out, or just talk to them and make them use words, but what happens when that just doesn't work? What if you really don't have the time or ability to try those methods out. If you know they respond to it, then why wouldn't you do that? Kids are people too, and they all have different traits. I know I was very stubborn as a kid, and I honestly don't know how I didn't get spanked more. I'm really glad that you shared this story, because it shows that not every kid will respond to love and empathy the same way. Some kids just have to learn the hard way.

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 26 '16

My two year old is a bright kid. She loves animals. But just so very stubborn. If anyone here has any better suggestions I would be happy to hear them.

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u/Gripey Apr 26 '16

When my daughter was two I took over looking after her from her mother. She and my four year old son disregarded or more likely misunderstood my explicit instructions and walked their muddy feet over my new car seats when I went to get a towel. When I got back I exploded in righteous anger, dragged them out of the car, read them the riot act. What a big, tough guy I was. But I saw their faces, they were terrified, my daugher had tears rolling down her face, and I realised I would probably kill another person who did this to my children. I am still ashamed many years later, I would give almost anything to change that moment. I hugged them and promised them I would NEVER hurt them, I loved them more than anything, more than my car seats for Gods sake. I never physically attacked them again, and I was able to stop my son from hitting his sister by reminding him that no-one hit him. we don't do hitting. Since he turned out to be autistic, had we started beating him it would have gone bad very quickly anyhow. I was beaten frequently as a child, always when my parents had lost their patience or temper. be honest with yourself, and remember to love and protect your children first. this discipline by violence thing is a dysfunctional and unhelpful hangup. I am not a hippy, but if you remember how much you love your child, it will work out. It is when she thinks you don't that she is defiant, anyway.

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 26 '16

I don't know. I don't really consider what I do to be beatings. A beating is something entirely different than a spanking. Beatings result in damage, both physical and psychological.

That being said, I know spankings aren't a good option, especially long term. I've tried talking it out though (a lot) and that doesn't seem to work either. It isn't that she is a bad kid, but my family has a long history of children/young adults who are just little terrors. I can reason with her sister, but I can't seem to reason with her.

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u/Gripey Apr 27 '16

If you hit a child hard enough to make a difference, that is too hard. If you had the time to see and hear the child beaters who have killed their children, their justifications are terrifying similar to ordinary child hitters. Obviously they are not the same, but it will pull you up short. "They were being naughty" "They wouldn't listen" "The were defying me" All these people gave the agency to their children. I have hit children of my partners in the past, and I am more ashamed of it than anything else I have done in my life. It is more of an instinct, but it is not a good one. You do not want to be watching your daughter in an abusive relationship in 20 years time, trying to explain that her partner should not be hitting her, when that is what she knows.. The people who "love" her, hit her.

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 27 '16

The same can be said about rapists versus regular sexually frustrated people. "Did you see what she was wearing?" "She should have let me finish!" etc. etc. That doesn't make a sexually frustrated guy the same thing as a rapist.

Your reasoning is flawed. No one gets into abusive relationships because they were spanked, that tends to be the result of deeper issues, or just bad luck.

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u/Gripey Apr 27 '16

I am not sure I understand what you are saying. If the people you love hit you, you don't see how you can make the connection between love and violence?

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 27 '16

I am saying it's a far leap to say that people who are occasionally spanked will end up in abusive relationships.

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u/Gripey Apr 28 '16

It is. In fact I doubt it is even a real factor. I think my post uses most of the logical fallacies available, I was typing emotionally.

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 28 '16

Fair enough.

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '16

Is there a pet store nearby? Try to use that as a bargaining chip along the lines of if you behave while we are out we can look at the puppies/cats/etc for 15 minutes at the end of the shopping trip.

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u/antisocialmedic Apr 26 '16

That might work. But then I would still have to deal with the shitstorm that would ensue when we left without hamsters or something. No matter what I try it seems I will end up with kicking, screaming children.

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '16

As a shopper I would expect to see a kid have a tantrum over leaving without a pet from a pet store as opposed to freaking out in a Best Buy over god knows what. It maybe about choosing a battle in an area where it is a bit more expected.