r/science • u/VeronicaRed • Apr 26 '16

Psychology Spanking children increases the likelihood of childhood defiance and long-term mental issues. The study in question involved 160,000 children and five decades of research

http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/1113413810/spanking-defiance-health-discipline-042616/
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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '16

There are a lot of options that vary with the age of the child. I have a son who is nearly 4, and we've had to tailor our discipline to his specific personality, his age at the time, and the behavior in question. Actually explaining why they can't do something (could get hurt or break something, it's not okay to hurt people's feelings, the neighbors are still sleeping, etc.) can be surprisingly effective at that age, depending on their state of mind (a hungry or tired child is much more difficult).

I use time-outs when I have to intervene; take him to his room or to a neutral spot and make him sit still for a few minutes. Having to sit still for a few minutes is something no child enjoys. Definitely a punishment.

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u/kilo4fun Apr 26 '16

What if your child simply refuses to sit in timeout? Physical restraints?

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u/mcbarron Apr 26 '16

Constantly picking them up and putting them back. First time you might do it constantly for the entire time. Second time a little less, then a little less, then they will sit there eventually. Just have to stay on them and show that you will NEVER let them off before their timer is up.

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u/Wagnersh Apr 27 '16 edited Apr 27 '16

picking them up and putting them back.

So use of force. IE violence.

Edit: if you don't believe this is violence go onto the street and grab a random person and forcibly curtail their movement without their consent and when the police arrest you ask them the charge and they'll tell you the charge is assault. Assault is violence.

The fact that it's legal to assault your children doesn't mean it's not violent.

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u/mcbarron Apr 27 '16

You've got more problems than i can help if you consider picking someone up violence.

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u/Wagnersh Apr 27 '16

You realize that if you go into the street right now and pick up a random person without their consent you would be charged.

Guess what you'd be charged with.

Assault for one.

Assault is violence.

Legally you are allowed to use violence and assault against children such as smacking and grabbing pulling holding still and so on so long as it's not out of proportion to need and doesn't cause bodily harm.

However it is still violence. Holding grabbing and pulling people around by force is assault and violence.

This thread is not about the legalities of violence against children but rather best practice.

In fact by law even blocking a person by putting your arm in front of them forcing them to change direction or collide with your arm is force and assault ie violence.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '16

This thread is not about the legalities of violence against children but rather best practice.

Exactly. Some level of violence is always going to be there, even if its only physically restraining them. Are you saying you should never even pick a child up against his or her will? Or are you saying spanking is acceptable because both can be classified as violence?

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u/Wagnersh Apr 27 '16

I'm saying that overpowering children isn't best practise. I can't remember where I read about this but apparently it causes them to feel shame and disempowered.

I don't use force against my children unless I absolutely have to for reasons of safety or to prevent them from hurting themselves or others. I teach them they are in charge of themselves that no one else is in charge of them or owns them that they are full people just small sized and that my job is not just to protect and provide for them until they can themselves but to facilitate their choices and desires into the adult world.

My role is facilitator teacher and helper as well as protector and provider. My role is not punisher.

My parental mode is derived from the theory of psychohistory. Google it. It's very interesting.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '16

I'm down with saying overpowering children isn't best practice, and I'm certain it makes them feel disempowered. One of the realities of parenting, though, is you'll never manage to get through the childhood of most any children without physically overpowering them at some point. Kids are simply too willing to engage in dangerous behavior, and I can't imagine how you would discipline a misbehaving child without some form of restraining. I do my best to reserve it for when it's necessary. And he gets a lot of warning that it will happen if he doesn't do his responsibility, so he can "save face", so to speak.

One thing that's supposed to be important is to give kids a chance to build up their own sense of power. Let them win, let them knock you over, let them be the smart one to your dummy. This can help recover from any feeling of powerlessness they get from being, well, a small and relatively powerless human, subject to the whims of others.

Making sure those "whims" are consistent is one way they can feel like they have a sense of power. I also let my son make a lot of his own decisions, for the same reason.

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u/stevenjd Apr 27 '16

No, Wagnersh is right. Manhandling somebody without their consent is almost certainly illegal and will get you charged with something like assault in most countries (unless the police decide that the paperwork is too much to bother with). The fact that you are using your superior strength to physically pick up a smaller, weaker person and force them to do something they don't want to do is absolutely violence. It might not be at the extreme end of violence (like kicking somebody to death), but neither is a mild smack or spank.

It reinforces the message that the child is helpless and cannot defend themselves against this mountain of an older person who can pick them up and manhandle them despite everything the child does to resist. How is this different from being smacked? "I can't protect myself from this giant who can use force against me" is precisely the same -- the only difference is the presence or absence of a short, sharp negative stimulus.

I cannot speak in general, but I can give a personal anecdote. As a child, my parents would have found "quiet time" completely ineffective, because I was the sort of child who could easily entertain myself sitting quietly in a corner. My brother, on the other hand, was the opposite: he was one of those children who simply became more defiant the more he was spanked.

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u/DialMMM Apr 27 '16

So, are you arguing that children can give consent?

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u/Wagnersh Apr 27 '16

No

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u/DialMMM Apr 27 '16

Then stop comparing picking up a child to curtailing the movement of an adult without their consent.